My 84 yr old father has COPD and has refused to bathe, wash, or even wipe after using the toilet. I do not live with my parents yet, but my 82 yr old mother will be having surgery soon and I will become the sole care provider for both. She has enabled him always. He drops fecal matter out of his pants and if pointed out to him he will pick it up and put in the trash, no reaction or comment, and just walk away. The house is so unsanitary and I will be addressing that 1st. But how can I deal with a difficult, noncompliant parent to maintain cleanliness and hopefully, reintroduce some semblance of quality of life when he has no interest in anything but watching tv and sitting in his own filth?
Your mother needs surgery. What sort of surgery? Some is major, requires long major care afterwards, some does not. If it’s major, NH care in the short-to-medieum term might be appropriate. If it’s not major, perhaps think of ways to cope short term WITHOUT you moving in. They can hire carers, who will not be personally involved – even if they disapprove. If you move in, it could well destroy your life and your relationship with both of them. Don’t just assume that you HAVE to do that.
One more thought: Could you get APS involved BEFORE she goes for surgery, and before you are seen as having taken over responsibility?
You can also notifiy APS when mom is having surgery because this is the time when they will be physically separated to make sure they do not cover up for each other.
Your 84 year old father is unlikely to change his habits - for you, or anyone else.
He sees no need to change. And, honestly, he doesn't have to.
I strongly urge you to consider NOT moving in to their home to be the sole caregiver for 2 parents! Please look into other options, such as having a home health aide come to the home. Even a housecleaning service every couple of weeks.
Your 82 year old mother should be transitioned to a skilled nursing rehab facility after her surgery. There, she will get the care and help she needs before returning home to resume her usual lifestyle. If your father is unable to take care of himself while your mother is away, and I'm not referring to living in filth, but if he is not independently mobile, or can not feed himself, or can not get to the toilet on his own, then -
1) You can stay with him for a while to help him, but expect it to be very uncomfortable for you. You may try cleaning the home to make it more habitable for you, but do not expect him to change his ways. You will quickly grow resentful and tired of this!
2) You can hire (on parents money, or using whatever benefits they qualify for), a caregiver, or multiple caregivers to check on your dad, help feed him, do simple cleaning, and help him with toileting.
3) It is probably time to start looking at care facilities in your area. Even if your parents can continue living independently at home for a while longer, you will feel better knowing what alternative living options are available to them. You can call a few and schedule a tour.
Just remember, watching tv all day while sitting in his own filth may be exactly the quality of life your dad wants. That may be disturbing for some, but it is not necessarily wrong. And it is not something you can change without removing him from his home.
Here I copy a part which is relevant to your question:
How to Handle Incontinence
We were at the grocery store when I heard my wife mumble “No, no, no!” as her pants started to get wet. She was standing in the middle of the aisle. I moved closer and stood next to her for support and whispered, “Don’t worry. It’s okay.” I waited until she had finished, then said, “Let’s go.” I didn’t say anything else, and neither did she. We just walked out of the store, hand in hand.
It’s hard to imagine the anxiety that someone may feel as they experience incontinence developing for the first time and realize that they are gradually losing control over the most fundamental aspects of their existence. They may get depressed, cry every time it happens, and be deeply embarrassed by it. They may try to help the problem by visiting the bathroom repeatedly, especially when they’re about to leave home to go somewhere.
Be Supportive
· Treat the patient with love and respect, and do not show any sign of anxiety or embarrassment. Communicate in ways that lighten the mood. Instead of saying, “You wet your pants again!” say, “Something spilled on your pants?”
· Your approach should be matter-of-fact and natural so the patient does not feel guilty or embarrassed.
· Do not infantilize the patient. Avoid words and phrases that one might use to encourage children to go to the bathroom to avoid accidents.
Helping the Patient to the Bathroom
My mother sits in her chair for long hours, even when her diaper is soiled. She does not let us take her to the bathroom or change her.
Well into the course of dementia progression, the patient will likely remain reluctant to allow someone to help them in this most private of tasks. When trying to help the patient, do not give them the impression that you want to do something against their will. Instead, find ways around cognitive obstacles and hang-ups. Go with the flow, rather than fight it.
1. Approach the patient from the front so they can see you and have time to process what is happening.
2. Kneel next to the patient’s chair.
3. Bring your hand toward the patient as though you are asking them to put their hand in yours. Wait until they comply with your request.
4. With hands locked in a gentle handshake position, greet the patient as you would if you hadn’t seen them in weeks. Tell them that you are very happy to see them.
5. Shift your hand from a handshake hold to an arm wrestling hold. With this hold, you can more comfortably help the patient to get up and walk.
6. Make a gesture of getting up and help the patient to get up as well.
7. Don’t talk about the bathroom or any soiled clothes.
8. Walk slowly to the bathroom.
9. Once in the bathroom, lower the patient’s pants with the help of their own hand still being held in yours so the patient feels that they are the one doing it.
10. Relax and take your time. Do not rush things so the patient does not feel that you are forcing them into something they don’t want to do.
11. Stay friendly and inject some humor into the process. Sing the tunes the patient loves and continue speaking to them in a nice and relaxed manner. Do not talk about the toilet affair.
Cleaning the Patient Afterwards
· If the patient is unable to clean themselves after using the bathroom, help them in a respectful way. Ask for their permission to help them. Treat them as you would if they were healthy.
· Approach the task gently so the patient feels comfortable allowing you to clean them. Otherwise, they may insist on doing it themselves and end up makin
I suggest strongly that dad go into respite care, which will do the work of getting dad used to depends and supervised toilet visits, which will be mandatory as they can’t have feces on the floor.
That said not the best conversation to have with a non compliant!
organise a healthcare worker to come in and clean
if he refuses then maybe the first bit- he’ll be officially taken to a home if they deem him unfit to look after himself ?
good luck
not easy
i take it there’s no one else who can have a word with him
you won’t last too long coping with this - maybe also speak to his doctor n see what he says
I imagine he may recommend he go into care
Can depression be something to consider?
I would also add that personality disorders can come into it. Narcissism doesn't disappear in old age does it?
Plus, men have been socialized differently to women. Men's toilets have a urinal.
We have set things up so that Dad has his own bedroom and toilet. Thank goodness, we have two bathrooms and toilets. He has a routine in the morning and at night. He needs to bring his bedding and pajamas to the laundry every morning. He deals with his disposables but we make sure he has his supplies, including the bags for disposing of the disposables in the garbage. He is not allowed in the kitchen (not easy) but he gets good meals. He hangs out almost all the washing and so he gets exercise. He also puts out the garbage for collection.
Why can other cultures manage to keep the elderly at home but it is so difficult for us. I guess standard of living is one problem and living in populated areas is another. Perhaps, your Dad could live in a relocatable near the house for a while?
They both may need to go to assisted living or SNF , depending on their care needs .
If you jump in and do for them they will believe they are fine to be home. Do not prop up a false independence . You will be living in THEIR home . You are not going to change how they live .
Tell Mom you will NOT be taking this on . You can not take care of both of them , especially your father . He isn’t going to cooperate .
If mom is truly independent and can live at home alone after post surgery recovery ( hopefully rehab ) then she could potentially live at home . Dad , no way , he may need SNF due to his uncontrolled incontinence .
However , I personally think Mom may also have dementia if she’s willing to live like this .
IMO , they probably both need to be placed .
Their County Area Agency of Aging can send someone to the home to do a needs assessment to determine the level of care needed. Call them , get a social worker involved.
Like already said APS is a last resort as well if needed. After Dad is out , hire professional cleaners using parent’s money .
Don't allow a 'needs' assessment of the home to be done by any government agency unless the goal is to get person placed in LTC. These agencies normally make unreasonable demands on a person's home and family when there doesn't need that much done to make the home safe. They tend to be hospice happy as well and will get everyone in even if they don't need it.
The father should get put in LTC respite then that should become permanent. If the mother wants to go into care with him she can. If she doesn't then another arrangement can be made for her depending on how independent she still is.
I get that, you are going to have a lot of push back from mom.
Honestly, I don't see that your going to be able to change anything, it sounds like your parents are so set in there ways there is nothing you can do.
You can try, but I suspect trying is going to ruin you, and your mental and physical health.
Your best bet , and the best way to get help, may be to just leave things as they are and call APS, you could try center for the aging first and talk to someone, there.
Secondly, if your father is so out-of-it that crap falls out of his pants and he'll sit in his own filth, send him to a nursing home for a respite stay. Medicare pays for up to two weeks respite stay to give caregivers a break. The two weeks will at least give you time to make some plans for your parents, get their place cleaned up, and your mother will be able to rest a bit and recover some from her surgery.
Talk to your father's doctor and tell him what's going on. His office can help you get respite placement for your father. Once he's in a facility, that can made that permanent. His life in a care facility won't be much different than what life is now for him. Sit, watch tv, eat, sleep, crap, and refuse to bathe. Only your mother won't have to live in it.
Please talk to your father's doctor which will be a help to you and your mother. Good luck.
Really you can't. Nor can your mother. And nor should anyone try to.
Your father has sadly reached the stage where he can no longer do this, and where he needs not one elderly woman caring for him but rather a team of caregivers and several shifts of them.
The hard decisions are here. The talk with your mother about what is doable. Dad should be in respite during this surgery, and its rehab, and mom should not be resuming this care. IMHO it is time for placement and I think you recognize that. If you have POA for these two, with mom now having surgery, it may be time for you to act. I am so sorry. No one will be made the happier for this, but it isn't any longer about happiness but about safety, about bedsores, about sepsis, about health.
I would not care for a man like this.
His doctor can evaluate him and get him placed fast even if it's ony for a temporary respite stay.
Your father obviously has some form of dementia, but I also believe that your mother too must have some kind of mental decline/dementia, as who in their right mind would opt to live in such conditions?
So when your mother is in rehab, let the social worker know how unsafe the living conditions are in her home, and that it would be an "unsafe discharge" if they were to let her return home, and then allow them to find placement for not only your mother, but your father as well.
Both of your parents now require WAY more help than you can provide, so please get them placed where they will be taken care of and safe.
And of course if money is an issue you can apply for Medicaid for them both.
I wish you well in finding the appropriate facility for your parents.
One funny interaction he had with the aide was her asking if he had any bowel control, to which he responded "it just fell out" Lol. There was word that he ruined seat cushions in the smoking area, didn't phase him.
He goes out does his smoking, goes back to the room, waits for meals, then repeat. He likes to yell where a seat at, where is the food in the dining room, in short he is living the rest of his life on his terms.
Your father obviously suffers from dementia or mental illness in addition to COPD if he refuses to clean his behind, for petesake. That's not laziness or lack of caring, that's a brain malfunction.
I would take mom into your home for her recovery after surgery, and then call APS to report dad. Let them see how he's living and decide what to do with him next. You cannot care for him......he needs a psych evaluation.
Best of luck to you.
or stories from some married women, where the husband doesn't wipe (or wipe well) and leaves skid marks on the bed.