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This post may be more venting, I don’t know if there’s a solution here. I’ve posted before regarding my mom’s precarious situation. She lives with my sibling and enjoys the social/emotional aspect. She sees her grandkids daily and seems much happier than when she lived alone. Finances are in ruin though due to a massive renovation project, that was abandoned/sold that property upside down, then purchased a very expensive property using mom’s retirement. There’s also a substance abuse component, MCI, and a very controlling/infantilizing part of my sibling over my mom. I try to accomplish as much as I can with my mom on days I take off work so we can call her trustee, estate attorney, bank, CPA, etc., to try to find a solution to the massive debt she’s accumulated. I honestly don’t know that there is a solution at this point, as her debt’s interest is too high and them continuing to live together seems to lead to more spending. Note - my mom is not legally incapacitated so POA is not in effect. We recently obtained an irrevocable trust/trustee, but he only has oversight into her investments at this point. I ruminate, ruminate, ruminate to the point I cannot address my own responsibilities. My husband is burnt out with my anxiety, my blood pressure is rising, and god forbid I hear one more person ask when I’m having kids/buying a house, I may scream! I’m 34 and the brain fog from worrying about my mom/her finances is so overwhelming I can’t focus on my own ‘goals’. I’m just keep hanging on trying to find a solution for her, while hoping I can maintain a job I love (it pays awful - public education, but it’s where I find my happiness so I refuse to quit/become a full time caregiver). Has anyone found a way to balance between problem solving for a family that doesn’t seem to listen to reason, without destroying your own mental health/job responsibilities/future goals-family? I’ve been thinking about joining Al-anon to have a place to at least talk through things, but substance use is just one piece of the issue, as it’s much more complex including mom’s inability to budget due to bereavement (dad died who did the budgeting/mom’s in denial about the status of finances), sibling feels entitled to family finances, and just overall living beyond their means.

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Imagine if you were not in this family. How would it play out? I would not worry about your Mom’s debt. As long as she is safe, happy, in ok health, and has food to eat-she’s good. Distance yourself some. I went through a period where I picked up the pieces for my parents and Sister. I finally stopped. They managed. Focus on your goals and life. Have some fun. My ailing elderly narcissistic Mom lives with my younger drug addicted sister. I check on Mom most days with a phone call. I’m learning how not to judge or take sides now. They both complain about each other to me. They are both right about what they are saying. Their relationship is very toxic, but they somehow thrive on their life together. I could never live as they do. It has become a broken record. When I call, I try to tell Mom about my day and tell her funny stories, and then only ask about her health. You can’t solve your Mom’s or Sisters problems. I would not try to. It is not your responsibility. Filial laws are rarely enforced because most adult children do not have the extra funds to care for a parent once they have paid for their own expenses. I would not get POA. Set some boundaries now and stick to them. Don’t feel guilty either. All the best in living your best life!
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Dupedwife Nov 23, 2023
I commend you for distancing yourself from your narcissistic mother as this is the only way to save your sanity. Calling and checking in by phone is the best solution to this problem.
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Oh my goodness! I so relate to your venting! I am afraid if I started venting, it would turn into a book. My brain fog and decimated health after ten years of extremely stressful caregiving and dealing with disastrous financial consequences of huge medical debt landed me in hospital and having two surgeries and four hospitalizations due to PTSD and neglect of my own health. Eighteen months later, I am just pulling myself back together with lots of support from our grown children and the grandchildren brought joy back to my life. Your brain and spirit and body can fall apart due to unrelenting stress. I never thought it could happen to me but it did. Our sons had to sit me down and have a serious talk then arranged care for their father. You are struggling and support is needed for you:Emotional, Mental, Physical and Spiritual! We here are all on your side! Hoping for the best for you!
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Vent away. It’s the best medicine. Sometimes there really isn’t a true answer it’s the life you’re dealing with. You wont just run away. Although you’d love to. So let it all go. No judgement here. Do what you can. Don’t take this burden as if you could fix something. Flip your sh#t once in awhile. It’s good for the soul. Keep posting. We’re listening. 👍👍👍
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I see there are Nar-Anon meetings near you too, check them out for your comfort and understanding: https://www.nar-anon.org/find-a-meeting
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BB3333: You cannot control your mother's financial situation.

Perhaps Al-Anon would give you support for the addicted person.
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BB3333,

I want to say that I am so sorry for your situation. You seem to see the situation clearly but do not have the control to fix it or even alter it. I thought my situation was hard (and it was), but I really feel for you.

One thing I would like you to do is to google the state your mom is in and find out if children are responsible for their parents if they need care and cannot afford it. It sounds as if you are all in the same state. Many states in the US require children to care for/pay for their parents care if the parent becomes indigent. YOU need to know if you are in a state that you are required to financially take care of your mom.

I did not have this issue. If you are in a state with this requirement, then you have the right/need to impart this to your mom. Let her know that her decisions have a major impact on your future. This might not make her change her ways, but it should give you insight into how much she cares about your life and your well being (your future). Then sit her down, I'm not sure how you handle the sister part of it, but sit your mom down and tell her, she needs to stop spending money that she does not have.

If you can afford it, ask an elder attorney for an hour conference with your mom. Have the attorney detail for her what she will need to have in terms of liquid assets to house and care for herself when and if she needs or wants to enter a senior community. Call senior communities in your area and talk with their finance departments so that you have an idea what she will need.

I hope with all my heart that your mom does not live in a state that has this requirement. I hope that you can talk to an elder attorney and get some insight into costs. I was shocked at how expensive nursing homes are. In your mom's case as she has no assets, she at least can go on medicaid. My parents had too much money and they are paying the full ride ($16,000 - $17,000) a month per parent!

I realize that you are struggling, and I understand that. You are very young to be going through this and having a sibling who is not helping the situation but actually making it worse is very hard. Educate yourself. Use the internet, this website, lawyers, and the elderly departments of your county or her county. Getting old is hard and America does not have enough support for its elderly community. The more you learn now, the better this will be.

I so wish you luck. It is a long road but you can find the answers, you may just need to spend time researching. Wishing you luck and serenity in your future.
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You can’t fix this . You can not help those who do not want help . You are banging your head against a wall. The only result you are getting is to ruin your own life while nothing changes . Under no circumstances should you ever bail out your family with money or let them live with you when what they are currently doing blows up . Do not take on their problems . I really draw the line at people who just throw money away and then expect others to help . That’s not my problem to fix .

You tried , and they just keep spending and getting deeper in debt . This is a lot different than helping someone who was down on their luck from losing a job or had a medical issue and trying to recover .
I have a sister like that , people have given her money over the years , her son took her in free room and board for 10 years , and she still has no money . She always had champagne taste on a beer salary , and now she needs assisted living and can’t pay for it , so my nephew is stuck taking care of her .

I honestly think I would walk away from this situation . I would not take on worrying about the debt your mother has gotten herself into , nor would I ever be her POA and then have to deal with that mess .
Go to Al Anon , learn how to distance from this situation before you lose your marriage .
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Since substance abuse is in the picture Al Anon might be a good choice; check around and attend various meetings to find a good fit with a particular group; the objective is to keep yourself centered, not 'fix' the addict. In 12-step they talk about the addiction/substance as 'cunning and mysterious' so it can't really be 'reasoned' about, instead fortifying oneself to let the cards fall where they may, which 12-step often calls 'hitting rock bottom.' It's hard to see loved ones fall apart; as long as your mother has a roof over her head, eats properly, is not in imminent danger, has other people she can lean on, you must focus on your own life and only be a helper if needed. Bankruptcy is not as stigmatized as it was in past eras. Always trying to 'manage' another person's problems is a sign of co-dependency; extricate yourself from the drama. Assure you family members you love them and focus on your primary relationship: your spouse and home.
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Since substance abuse is in the picture Al Anon might be a good choice; check around and attend various meetings to find a good fit with a particular group; the objective is to keep yourself centered, not 'fix' the addict. In 12-step they talk about the addiction/substance as 'cunning and mysterious' so it can't really be 'reasoned' about, but fortifying oneself to let the cards fall where they may, which 12-step often calls 'hitting rock bottom.' It's hard to see loved ones fall apart; as long as your mother has a roof over her head, eats properly, is not in imminent danger, has other people she can lean on, you must focus on your own life and only be a helper if needed. Bankruptcy is not as stigmatized as it was in past eras. Always trying to 'manage' another person's problems is a sign of co-dependency; extricate yourself from the drama. Assure you family members you love them and focus on your primary relationship: your spouse and home.
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This has been my mantra for awhile when dealing with family.

They don't have to change. I can.


Lots of great advice here. Hope that there are suggestions that resonate with you and you can learn new ways to deal with your situation.
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Santalynn Nov 21, 2023
Yes! your mantra is the essence of what Al-Anon teaches.
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You may have to "take away" your mom's (and sibling's) access to her finance since she incompetent to manage them. A "therapeutic fib" may be to tell her that her accounts have been hacked. Give her a reloadable gift debit card as her new "debit card" or "credit card". Tell her that the bank will only allow ______ amount to be spent weekly/monthly without your OK - to prevent more fraud. Then, reload the card with an amount that is safe for them to use as "fun money." Place as much of her usual bills on autopay. Work with her bank to consolidate debt and make payments. Don't allow mom to get any other debts.

Start living your life. Have children - if you want them! Date your spouse! You can't bubblewrap your mom from all life problems, but you are doing good. Remind yourself that often.
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Yes! As others have said, you say to yourself, like a mantra, "This is not my problem to solve"! You didn't do anything, sounds like you don't have the power to fix anything, therefore it's not your problem to solve. Sounds like you're a "fixer", if only others would listen to you the problem would be solved. But they're not, so back off and let the cards fall where they may. Can she declare bankruptcy? That's my only thought financially? It sucks, watching the slow mo disaster, but it's not worth risking your own health and life. I know you’re much younger than most of the people here, and I know you’re into different methods of problem-solving, but I’m going to advise you to even drop those in this case. Wash your hands of the whole mess. Unless someone is actually listening to you, you’re just, screaming into the wind. it’s going to drive you crazy at first, but let mom and sis do whatever they want. It’s just not your problem to solve.
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NeedHelpWithMom Nov 19, 2023
Yep, rinse and repeat as many times as necessary to free yourself from anxiety.

I have heard people say that when they stop talking out loud or to themselves about an issue they are over it. I believe there is validity to this statement.
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BB,

Al-Anon is certainly a good place to start. Therapy is also a great place to sort through your emotions.

You’re not directly involved in any of this. That’s a good thing! Yes, it affects you but it doesn’t have to affect your daily life to the point of it taking over your life on a daily basis.

I understand how your husband feels. He wants to have his wife back. He wants you to be happy.

Put yourself in your husband’s shoes. Suppose that he was having a rough time with his family.

Would you want him to be stressed out about it every single second? Or would you rather that when he was home with you that he was present with you?

You would want your husband to be at peace in his life no matter what is going on outside of his home.

I am sure that your husband cares about you and he is upset about you being stressed. Place your energy into finding a way to cope with your family’s situation.

Accept that you don’t have any power to influence your family or control their behavior.

Life is too short to be stressed out all of the time. You have many things to be grateful for, a husband who loves you, a job that you love, etc.

Wishing you all the best.
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BB3333 Nov 16, 2023
Thanks! Also a helpful reframe. I do think I need to live more in the moment, and like you said, it’s not taking over my daily life yet. I’m trying to make brainstorm lists - write down an idea I have and come back to it at the appropriate time, to hopefully stop some of the rumination! We’ll see how it goes! Therapy has been helpful - haven’t tried Al anon yet but may be another good option to stay on track.
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BB3333, I can’t remember your previous threads so forgive me if I’ve missed one or more points.

You seem to have one thing to be glad about – your mother is actually enjoying herself and her social situation at the moment. Focus on that!

You can’t control your mother’s financial disasters. So they are going to continue and get worse. You can’t ‘manage’ her out of them. You don’t have that power. You try, waste a lot of time and energy on it, and you still fail. Probably the ‘worst’ that will happen is that eventually your mother will end up on Medicaid in a facility. It’s not such a bad ‘worst’, it happens to a lot of good people. Focus on accepting that’s what’s likely down the track!

It’s easier to drop this stuff off your ‘worry’ agenda when you are a long way away. The closer you stay (in more ways than one), the harder it is to live your own life. I was so glad that my very difficult father’s declining days and death were (literally) 12,000 miles away from me. Can you try some imaginary distance yourself?
Best wishes, Margaret
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BB3333 Nov 16, 2023
Thanks! That is a good way to reframe. I know I can’t control the finances. I may be able to minimize some harm but I think some of it is beyond any help, but at least she can be happy for the time being. We have a family meeting this weekend but I’m not sure if we’ll get anywhere.
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Yes I am total caregiver for my 90+ y/o mom and have a temp aide come in once or twice a week...This evening when she mentioned a friend of mine I said he is enjoying a week in Europe...she replied what a waste of time/money. Then reminded me of my responsibility to care for her and if she can not travel then why should I. She also mentioned that when my late wife was alive how she wasted time with her family out of state during the holidays. Wow her own daughter in law who did more for her than can be imagined..
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Bankruptcy?
As others have said...never let her move in your house.
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Your mother's problems are not your problems to solve.
As you say, your mother is competent in her own life, her own choices, her own affairs.
Nor are your sister's problems yours.

You are enmmeshed in family trauma-drama to the extent it has negatively impacted your own life and that of your own family.

This complicated screnario is way too complex a story for a Forum to guess at, and I can only suggest that
1. You understand that you are way too involved in this
2. You understand that this is harmful to you, and that you have zero control over it
3. You recognize that this is impacting your own family.

Understanding all that, you continue in this.
I would seek counseling and by that I mean a really good counselor, one who will not listen out her ears while her hands grab your money. But rather one that will shake your world. This is what it takes to break free from the calcified and constricting habits you have formed in this family dynamic.

As adults we must be responsible for our own lives, our own choices. We must take responsibility for where we are at, and choose whether to change our lives or to continue to smolder on the old family funeral pyre.

I hope that you will make good choices for yourself.
No one but you can do it.
You will be very proud of yourself if you can do the work, but more than that, you will be healthy and well and on your way to quality life within your own family. If you cannot do this, then this generational habitual stew will be passed down in the generational pots.
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BB3333 Nov 15, 2023
Thank you! I literally LOLed at the family trauma drama comment. I’ve called it a ‘chaos carrousel’ before to my own therapist. But, that is a good point. I think the resiliency to fight family enmeshment/toxicity can come at odds with the duty we feel to our own family members. Also, my sibling also gaslights me for ‘not being there,’ so I have a level of guilt because I am not the one daily with my mom, so I try to support where I can. But I’m also plugging holes that feel they are on the verge of rupturing. Idk what the solution is, or maybe the answer is there can be no solution amidst the toxicity.
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Let it go. Have mom declare bankruptcy if possible and move on with your own life.

You have no control over the stupid things mom is doing financially. Stop trying to fix her and the mess she made and all future messes.

Sometimes people have to deal with the consequences if their choices. This is one of those times.

And whatever you do, please never let mom move into your house.
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BB3333 Nov 15, 2023
Agreed with bounce I don’t think bankruptcy is an option, but I do appreciate your advice about the boundaries/consequences of actions part!
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