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Just curious because I don’t have funds to pay for it. She will be private pay til Medicaid. Will Medicaid cover all expense? I’m nervous about getting into financial problems placing mom.
You say that you share POA with sister. Have you no idea how to sign as POA?
Please do some research online about your abilities and your duties as POA because it is a fiduciary duty that involves accounting for all monies and etc.
A POA does not sign his or her own name. She signs the principle's names. So if your Mother is named Betty Jones and your name is Diane Smith you would sign your mothers name with your name as POA. So you would sign "Betty Jones by Diane Smith as POA". There are other ways to sign but that's about the shortest. That means that BETTY JONES or her estate is responsible for payment, not Diane Smith. Do not sign your own name EVER.
What they mean about not signing is do not sign anything making you responsible for payment. I usually singed my name with POA after my name. I always asked about how the person wanted me to sign the paperwork. My Moms name with mine underneath with my POA.
If you placing Mom in MC make sure they will except Medicaid after her money runs out. In my State you have to pay privately for at least 2yrs before Medicaid can be considered. And even then, it will determine if the AL has a Medicaid bed available.
Hmmm...my sister's bank requires me to sign " MY name, POA" Under my sisters' signature. Is this not correct? Sounds like I am not only one needs clarification.
First and foremost, READ everything you're asked to sign, even if it takes a while.
People who present me with contracts hate me because I read and understand every word before I sign. It can take a while, so too bad for them. I often ask cuestions, and of course, they don't know the answers because THEY never read the contract. I cross out parts I don't agree to, and I ALWAYS get a copy of the final signed version.
When I put mom in and sister in AL, there was an option for me to sign paperwork that said I was financially responsible for the AL payment. I said I would not be responsible, and they said that was fine, but sometimes a child is the one paying. I did not sign it.
Now mom has died and sister, on SSDI, is staying there. She does not have the funds to cover the rent, and they know this. I am paying the bulk of the rent from mom’s checking that was POD to me (still part of the estate) until the estate is settled. Sister will then be self-pay using her inheritance. Again they said I didn’t have to sign as responsible party.
I think that for them, bottom line is that sister will simply be evicted if someone doesn’t pay the bill. They don’t care where the money comes from as long as it’s paid.
Anyway, you should not have to accept any responsibility for your mom to move in—but make sure you don’t accidentally sign something like that. There will be a stack of papers. Be careful!
I was told - several times - because I asked many times - about my PERSONAL / FINANCIAL responsibility when signing xxx POA for xxx.
Every time, I was told - no, this is not your personal money. You are not financially, personally responsible.
From my understanding, a POA MANAGES the resourses and personal health decisions of the person they are the POA for ...
There was no way I could have or would have put myself in a position to be financially responsible for my friend-companion (when I became responsible for his entire life: POA, VA Fiduciary, Soc Sec Payee Rep ... ) as I do not / did not have the funds to take that on.
The caveat here is that he was eligible for all government aid and paid nothing due to being indigent, and perhaps due to his age, qualified.
ALWAYS PROTECT YOURSELF / YOUR OWN ASSETS
Contact an attorney before signing anything.*
Know your rights and responsibilities before signing on the dotted line.
* There are some kind legal professionals out there. In reaching out to various attorneys locally, I found an attorney who offered to create my friend's Will pro bono (I had said that xxx could pay something although did not have much money).
I tend to agree w one response here - facilities don't care who pays the bills as long as they are paid. If they are not, either the state (some government subsidy will help / pay for care) or the person will be required to leave. As in the case with my friend, he went to a nursing home. While there were issues / concerns (and I dealt with them to the best of my ability), I felt he was 'lucky' to have any 24/7 care / meals / in a nursing home. There was nowhere else for him to go. It certainly is a mixed bag.
We, as a society need to care for 'us' as we age, become disabled, inflicted with dementia. People shouldn't be housed (worse) than animals in a shelter ... (and some are). Caring for us 'as a collective people' in the richest country in the world SHOULD BE OUR HIGHEST PRIORITY ... has to start with masses speaking out ... by voting caring, concerned citizens into office - people who care about human life. Excuse me for shifting into a political discussion although to me, 'every' aspect of society is political - we are either humanitarians caring for the masses or we focus on caring for our individual nuclear family / self. It is how the pie is distributed; it isn't that we don't have an ample pie.
You are correct. The POA legally manages the money and makes the decisions for a person acting in their best interests.
They do not use their own money to pay any expenses. It is not beneath a memory care, nursing home, rehab, or and other LTC facility to try and trick a POA into signing documents assuring that they will personally take responsibility for someone's debts to get paid.
That is why it is so important to always put the letters 'POA' after your name and to put the person's name also on the check, document, any paperwork.
If assisted living places don't allow transition to medicaid, check into adult family homes. In parts of Washington state, not many AL places allow transition to medicaid, but quite a few adult family homes do (after 2 to 3 years).
But definitely check with an attorney to know the proper way to sign.
I always sign my name as POA for my mothers name, this is the way I was told to do it by her attorney. My name POA also works I’m told or her name by my name POA. As long as you are being very clear that you are her POA and not taking on responsibility yourself, you are taking responsibility on behalf of the primary. Also POA is different from guardianship in that POA doesn’t require you to report to the court with a running accounting in fact POA doesn’t require you to do anything it just enables you to do all things legal on her behalf, as directed by the primary. Durable or springing does allow you to do what you feel is best for her, on her behalf so even if she isn’t directing you and some have language that requires you to do certain things like verify that certain requirements are met or even limit what you can and can’t do.
Here is how you place her without signing. If you are the POA, you will be required to sign admission forms for her into the facility.
READ THEM VERY CAREULLY!!! Then sign them. They will try to slip in a form giving them access to her bank accounts and will often do this under the guise of saying they are forms to bill Medicare. Don't believe this because Medicare does not pay for memory care or any other LTC. Stay in touch with them though because if she requires hospitalization at any point and is admitted for more that three days, Medicare will pay for some nursing home days if she requires skilled care for a time and she will not owe cash pay for those days.
DO NOT for any reason give the facility her Social Security number or any banking information.
As POA it is your right to insist on a written bill every month and you should insist. When you receive the monthly bill from the memory care, read it very carefully and make sure it's accurate and no more than is owed. Do not pay in advance because if (God forbid) she passes, that money is not returned to the person's estate and family.
You would do well to pay her monthly memory care bill with a bank cashier's check . You will have to go to the bank once a month and purchase one (they're usually about $7-$10) for the amount owed to the memory care for the month.
-Don't pay a bill a month ahead.
-Don't allow them to have her Social Security number
-Don't allow them to have any banking or routing numbers. which means do not pay them using a personal check from her bank account.
-Sign all documents with your name and the letters 'POA' after your name along with her name. Make sure to put the 'POA' and her name either above your signature or below it. This way you will not mistakenly be assuming any responsibility for her bills and debts.
The facility will get insistent, but you do not have to allow them access to her accounts.
You sign as POA> That should be the way you sign for ALL mom's POA work. You sign for instance "my Mom" by "her daughter" (insert names) and after "by her daughter add "as power of attorney.
It would look like this:
Alva Deer by Little Deer as POA or Alva Deer by Little Deer TTE (trustee)
I’ve been running into places that have started adding into their Admissions agreements language explicitly obligating family to be financially responsible if the resident-to-be can’t. No limit to time, amount or reason.
Signing as DPOA is not protective in this case because by signing, the DPOA is explicitly agreeing to be responsible. Trying to negotiate, cross-out or modify the language so far has been a hard no.
According to the elder care attorneys we’ve had review these contracts, Kansas does not protect a DPOA when the DPOA explicitly agrees. Kansas is not a filial state either, but if you agree you can be contractually obligated to pay.
Here at least facilities are required to provide a rate sheet before move-in and time for your attorneys to review contracts. Downside is the attorneys are backed up.
NO! A DPOA is not responsible when they sign as DPOA. I looked the following up under Kansas law.
"No. A POA does not transfer your parent's debts to you. Unless you are party to the debt (as discussed below), your only responsibility is to execute their wishes as stipulated in the contract. When they pass away, the responsibility for debts goes to the executor, who must oversee the payment of outstanding debts."
So if there is debt and if there are assets the executor takes over paying the bills. At death all POA duties and privileges disappear. OP, I suggest you check with an attorney in your area. I am very afraid you will get faulty information otherwise. MEANWHILE If you cannot sign THEIR NAME followed by your own as POA then DO NOT SIGN anything. Anyone would be very foolish to sign as responsible to pay the debts of another.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Please do some research online about your abilities and your duties as POA because it is a fiduciary duty that involves accounting for all monies and etc.
A POA does not sign his or her own name. She signs the principle's names. So if your Mother is named Betty Jones and your name is Diane Smith you would sign your mothers name with your name as POA. So you would sign "Betty Jones by Diane Smith as POA". There are other ways to sign but that's about the shortest. That means that BETTY JONES or her estate is responsible for payment, not Diane Smith. Do not sign your own name EVER.
If you placing Mom in MC make sure they will except Medicaid after her money runs out. In my State you have to pay privately for at least 2yrs before Medicaid can be considered. And even then, it will determine if the AL has a Medicaid bed available.
Under my sisters' signature.
Is this not correct?
Sounds like I am not only one needs clarification.
Sorry I misunderstood : (
People who present me with contracts hate me because I read and understand every word before I sign. It can take a while, so too bad for them. I often ask cuestions, and of course, they don't know the answers because THEY never read the contract. I cross out parts I don't agree to, and I ALWAYS get a copy of the final signed version.
Now mom has died and sister, on SSDI, is staying there. She does not have the funds to cover the rent, and they know this. I am paying the bulk of the rent from mom’s checking that was POD to me (still part of the estate) until the estate is settled. Sister will then be self-pay using her inheritance. Again they said I didn’t have to sign as responsible party.
I think that for them, bottom line is that sister will simply be evicted if someone doesn’t pay the bill. They don’t care where the money comes from as long as it’s paid.
Anyway, you should not have to accept any responsibility for your mom to move in—but make sure you don’t accidentally sign something like that. There will be a stack of papers. Be careful!
Every time, I was told - no, this is not your personal money. You are not financially, personally responsible.
From my understanding, a POA MANAGES the resourses and personal health decisions of the person they are the POA for ...
There was no way I could have or would have put myself in a position to be financially responsible for my friend-companion (when I became responsible for his entire life: POA, VA Fiduciary, Soc Sec Payee Rep ... ) as I do not / did not have the funds to take that on.
The caveat here is that he was eligible for all government aid and paid nothing due to being indigent, and perhaps due to his age, qualified.
ALWAYS PROTECT YOURSELF / YOUR OWN ASSETS
Contact an attorney before signing anything.*
Know your rights and responsibilities before signing on the dotted line.
* There are some kind legal professionals out there. In reaching out to various attorneys locally, I found an attorney who offered to create my friend's Will pro bono (I had said that xxx could pay something although did not have much money).
I tend to agree w one response here - facilities don't care who pays the bills as long as they are paid. If they are not, either the state (some government subsidy will help / pay for care) or the person will be required to leave. As in the case with my friend, he went to a nursing home. While there were issues / concerns (and I dealt with them to the best of my ability), I felt he was 'lucky' to have any 24/7 care / meals / in a nursing home. There was nowhere else for him to go. It certainly is a mixed bag.
We, as a society need to care for 'us' as we age, become disabled, inflicted with dementia. People shouldn't be housed (worse) than animals in a shelter ... (and some are). Caring for us 'as a collective people' in the richest country in the world SHOULD BE OUR HIGHEST PRIORITY ... has to start with masses speaking out ... by voting caring, concerned citizens into office - people who care about human life. Excuse me for shifting into a political discussion although to me, 'every' aspect of society is political - we are either humanitarians caring for the masses or we focus on caring for our individual nuclear family / self. It is how the pie is distributed; it isn't that we don't have an ample pie.
Gena / Touch Matters
You are correct. The POA legally manages the money and makes the decisions for a person acting in their best interests.
They do not use their own money to pay any expenses.
It is not beneath a memory care, nursing home, rehab, or and other LTC facility to try and trick a POA into signing documents assuring that they will personally take responsibility for someone's debts to get paid.
That is why it is so important to always put the letters 'POA' after your name and to put the person's name also on the check, document, any paperwork.
YOU should never use your own financials for your mother's care.
But definitely check with an attorney to know the proper way to sign.
READ THEM VERY CAREULLY!!! Then sign them. They will try to slip in a form giving them access to her bank accounts and will often do this under the guise of saying they are forms to bill Medicare. Don't believe this because Medicare does not pay for memory care or any other LTC. Stay in touch with them though because if she requires hospitalization at any point and is admitted for more that three days, Medicare will pay for some nursing home days if she requires skilled care for a time and she will not owe cash pay for those days.
DO NOT for any reason give the facility her Social Security number or any banking information.
As POA it is your right to insist on a written bill every month and you should insist. When you receive the monthly bill from the memory care, read it very carefully and make sure it's accurate and no more than is owed. Do not pay in advance because if (God forbid) she passes, that money is not returned to the person's estate and family.
You would do well to pay her monthly memory care bill with a bank cashier's check . You will have to go to the bank once a month and purchase one (they're usually about $7-$10) for the amount owed to the memory care for the month.
-Don't pay a bill a month ahead.
-Don't allow them to have her Social Security number
-Don't allow them to have any banking or routing numbers. which means do not pay them using a personal check from her bank account.
-Sign all documents with your name and the letters 'POA' after your name along with her name. Make sure to put the 'POA' and her name either above your signature or below it. This way you will not mistakenly be assuming any responsibility for her bills and debts.
The facility will get insistent, but you do not have to allow them access to her accounts.
It would look like this:
Alva Deer by Little Deer as POA
or
Alva Deer by Little Deer TTE (trustee)
Signing as DPOA is not protective in this case because by signing, the DPOA is explicitly agreeing to be responsible. Trying to negotiate, cross-out or modify the language so far has been a hard no.
According to the elder care attorneys we’ve had review these contracts, Kansas does not protect a DPOA when the DPOA explicitly agrees. Kansas is not a filial state either, but if you agree you can be contractually obligated to pay.
Here at least facilities are required to provide a rate sheet before move-in and time for your attorneys to review contracts. Downside is the attorneys are backed up.
"No. A POA does not transfer your parent's debts to you. Unless you are party to the debt (as discussed below), your only responsibility is to execute their wishes as stipulated in the contract. When they pass away, the responsibility for debts goes to the executor, who must oversee the payment of outstanding debts."
So if there is debt and if there are assets the executor takes over paying the bills. At death all POA duties and privileges disappear.
OP, I suggest you check with an attorney in your area. I am very afraid you will get faulty information otherwise.
MEANWHILE
If you cannot sign THEIR NAME followed by your own as POA then DO NOT SIGN anything. Anyone would be very foolish to sign as responsible to pay the debts of another.