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I don't know if it matters if the other family "doesn't get it". If you have POA and think it is in his best interest to legally separate, then that is what you need to do. And I assume you will be moving him to some kind of a facility that is more appropriate for his level of function?
A friend had a situation where the dad remarried, then she had a stroke and her kids had the nerve to demand that he pay for her nursing home although she had plenty of her own money. Don't know if something like this is an issue for you, but sometimes the stepkids can be super greedy so keep your guard up and protect your parent.
If you have POA, then you do what you feel needs to be done for your parent.
I would suggest though, that you consult with a lawyer well versed in Medicaid. You will need to determine what assets are your parent's. Did they come into the marriage with what is his is his and hers is hers keeping separate checking accts. If so, may not be a problem. But if what assets they have are during the marriage, then u need to protect your parent. And really, its for the benefit of the spouse too.
Late-in-life 2nd marriages are often fraught with complicated relationships with the “step” offspring. I would try to keep them in the loop and work with them as much as is realistic. Maybe passing on resources to them so they can educate themselves about dementia? Making decisions that will take them by surprise usually won’t go well.
Since you are POA you can make the decisions needed for your father. If you have to place him in a MC facility to be sure that he is safe and cared for that is what you need to do. What then happens to his wife is her family's responsibility. If they do not see that she needs help a call to APS might let the family see that there is a problem.
You might want to consult an attorney and see how to handle any property owned by him/ them. If it is your dad's home with him only on the title then you can do a sale, that would mean evicting the wife. You could ask the family to buy the house if they do not want to move her. There are other options but it is best to talk to a lawyer.
This sounds like a case for a GOOD EC atty. The legal implications can be many and given the potential contention from the other family, you need serious legal advice.
One thing I learned yesterday is despite leaving property and/or assets to offspring in a will, a second marriage can throw a huge monkey wrench into the situation. I believe it was in regards to a 401k, but if retired, generally one has to move those to an IRA (I had to.)
Given LBD, he will likely need a different LTC than she will. If there is property, it has to be handled legally. If jointly owned, she will likely be able to remain, for now, but her family will have to see to her care. If Medicaid is involved, they will likely place a lien on it. If individually owned, legal advice!!! Same for assets. His income will be his and be used for his care. Any liquid assets would have to be split, but will require legal assistance. Any other assets will need legal advice. Sometimes it doesn't end up being a 50-50 split, if the "community" spouse needs more than their income to remain in the home.
We don't know all the details, so the best we can suggest is seeking good legal advice. This should be from someone familiar with elder care and Medicaid.
This second marriage took place 16 years ago, according to OP’s profile. The answers sound as if it was quite recent, and W’s children are being greedy. Perhaps they are just treating it like a ‘real marriage’. My second marriage was 20 years ago, and I would be unimpressed if a relative of either of us decided that they could take over. Sure there are issues, but this post and the answers don’t sound quite right to me!
Why aren't they safe together? Is one or both violent to the other? If that's the case, tell other family you need to protect one from the other and new living arrangements must decided. If they choose not to participate, then carry on without them.
You might try for placement at a facility that has different levels of care. For example they might both start off in same or different rooms on same floor. Then one gets worse later on and moves to a different floor for additional care. At least they could still see each other
Dad's wife wants to take care of him and keeps him away when staff try to help him saying they are spoiling him with the help he needs. The physical help they both need is required now. The risk for injury makes it dangerous for assistance to be offered by either and they don't remember to call for the nurse of know where the buzzer is unless reminded. We have found a larger facility with more medical and physical therapy plus level of care options so separate rooms and contact with supervision can be achieved. But we are more realistic about the level of decline than her sons His wife's family will have to make the decision if they want to move. It has been a very complicated situation also involving legal and financial circumstances. We have tried everything to decrease stress and improve the quality of life. Where they are now has safety issues but close to them. Seniors that remarry need to have financial prenuptial agreements and POA is not going to be enough protection in a situation with dementia
It’s hard to comment in a helpful way without a bit more info, at least for me. I will say however as a child (lol a child of 60!) of a remarried parent I am very aware of the special challenges so I will say this; in many families blood relatives or not there are relatives, siblings even who “don’t get it” or just can’t accept it and bury their heads to the problems. It’s hard and frustrating when they are just detached but especially challenging when they try to be involved by objecting to what needs to happen. What I’m saying is you aren’t alone and while the family dynamic can make it harder I think the first approach is the same. When a couple, each with kids, marries they are forming a family even when their kids are grown with kids of their own and if they have treated their new families like part of the family it’s even more clear that’s their intent. The fact that both of these people now have dementia and are not safe together isn’t because they are each other’s second marriage, if one say is your mother (I don’t know your actual relationship) it could as easily be your mother and father not safe together, it isn’t because of their relationship over the years it’s because they both have a disease that deteriorates their brain, affects their thinking, personality and reactions. This is important for everyone to remember and often harder in blended families.
Does this couple recognize and still enjoy each other? Would a good option perhaps be MC in the same facility but different rooms something like that? Might that be an easier discussion than this parent is my responsibility and that one is yours? Talking about the options for keep ing them together, talking about the spouse you are related to by marriage and not blood as an important member of your family, the way you do your own parent for instance but including the other side of the family in the joint discussion and decision making. Again we all have different ways and speeds of coming around to the facts, maybe suggesting a family meeting with the primary doctor or doctors.
LBD1st I know you have guardianship of your father. Congratulations on getting that done. Did you end up representing yourself as you had planned? Were you able to get your dads assets sorted as part of the court proceeding or is that all still a hot mess? Now that you have the guardianship, have you been able to make decisions for your dad with out the steps interference?
I am assuming your MIL still has the “boys” holding her POA and that they are less than interested in doing anything that mom doesn’t bless?
When you write that they need separate living areas what did you have in mind? In their home? One going into care, the other staying home? Were you hoping that they would remove mom from the home and let dad live there with care?
I hope your dad is feeling better from his covid experience. I think the forum needs a bit more info on what you had in mind.
I hired the attorney to move through court during guardianship and continued legal mess of selling the house etc with her family as continuing POA. The dementia she has allows the opportunity for financial suggestion.
Both parents moved together to AL. However, he is going to move into a different facility due his condition changing and needing a higher staff ratio and different medical resources. If the other family chooses, they can move her to the facility. However, the PT and current staff have documented she can't care for him, forgets she can't and doesn't remember where the call cord/button is.There is an endangerment for both. We need Dad closer to monitor his care with the change in medical and physical condition.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
A friend had a situation where the dad remarried, then she had a stroke and her kids had the nerve to demand that he pay for her nursing home although she had plenty of her own money. Don't know if something like this is an issue for you, but sometimes the stepkids can be super greedy so keep your guard up and protect your parent.
I would suggest though, that you consult with a lawyer well versed in Medicaid. You will need to determine what assets are your parent's. Did they come into the marriage with what is his is his and hers is hers keeping separate checking accts. If so, may not be a problem. But if what assets they have are during the marriage, then u need to protect your parent. And really, its for the benefit of the spouse too.
If you have to place him in a MC facility to be sure that he is safe and cared for that is what you need to do.
What then happens to his wife is her family's responsibility. If they do not see that she needs help a call to APS might let the family see that there is a problem.
You might want to consult an attorney and see how to handle any property owned by him/ them. If it is your dad's home with him only on the title then you can do a sale, that would mean evicting the wife. You could ask the family to buy the house if they do not want to move her. There are other options but it is best to talk to a lawyer.
One thing I learned yesterday is despite leaving property and/or assets to offspring in a will, a second marriage can throw a huge monkey wrench into the situation. I believe it was in regards to a 401k, but if retired, generally one has to move those to an IRA (I had to.)
Given LBD, he will likely need a different LTC than she will. If there is property, it has to be handled legally. If jointly owned, she will likely be able to remain, for now, but her family will have to see to her care. If Medicaid is involved, they will likely place a lien on it. If individually owned, legal advice!!! Same for assets. His income will be his and be used for his care. Any liquid assets would have to be split, but will require legal assistance. Any other assets will need legal advice. Sometimes it doesn't end up being a 50-50 split, if the "community" spouse needs more than their income to remain in the home.
We don't know all the details, so the best we can suggest is seeking good legal advice. This should be from someone familiar with elder care and Medicaid.
You might try for placement at a facility that has different levels of care. For example they might both start off in same or different rooms on same floor. Then one gets worse later on and moves to a different floor for additional care. At least they could still see each other
We have found a larger facility with more medical and physical therapy plus level of care options so separate rooms and contact with supervision can be achieved. But we are more realistic about the level of decline than her sons
His wife's family will have to make the decision if they want to move. It has been a very complicated situation also involving legal and financial circumstances. We have tried everything to decrease stress and improve the quality of life. Where they are now has safety issues but close to them.
Seniors that remarry need to have financial prenuptial agreements and POA is not going to be enough protection in a situation with dementia
Does this couple recognize and still enjoy each other? Would a good option perhaps be MC in the same facility but different rooms something like that? Might that be an easier discussion than this parent is my responsibility and that one is yours? Talking about the options for keep ing them together, talking about the spouse you are related to by marriage and not blood as an important member of your family, the way you do your own parent for instance but including the other side of the family in the joint discussion and decision making. Again we all have different ways and speeds of coming around to the facts, maybe suggesting a family meeting with the primary doctor or doctors.
I know you have guardianship of your father. Congratulations on getting that done. Did you end up representing yourself as you had planned? Were you able to get your dads assets sorted as part of the court proceeding or is that all still a hot mess? Now that you have the guardianship, have you been able to make decisions for your dad with out the steps interference?
I am assuming your MIL still has the “boys” holding her POA and that they are less than interested in doing anything that mom doesn’t bless?
When you write that they need separate living areas what did you have in mind? In their home? One going into care, the other staying home? Were you hoping that they would remove mom from the home and let dad live there with care?
I hope your dad is feeling better from his covid experience.
I think the forum needs a bit more info on what you had in mind.
Both parents moved together to AL. However, he is going to move into a different facility due his condition changing and needing a higher staff ratio and different medical resources. If the other family chooses, they can move her to the facility. However, the PT and current staff have documented she can't care for him, forgets she can't and doesn't remember where the call cord/button is.There is an endangerment for both.
We need Dad closer to monitor his care with the change in medical and physical condition.
Memory care, assisted living, nursing home - all lonely places.