Is it wrong to hope someone dies?

Unfortunately I totally. Understand your feelings.....I really wih I had an answer for these thoughts....cause I would use it.....my husband of 50 years..has always been a narsacictic- verbal and emotional-manipulator-abuser...I attempted a divorce about 5 hare ago....didn't go well or happen....then he started becoming ill with numerous health issues(most of which he could have avoided if he would have taken of his self-but he always wanted someone else to take care of him)....now he has heart....stroke..seizures...prostrate cancer stage 4metastized

I use to have those thoughts also to a small extent. I am SO VERY SORRY now that both my parents are gone. I am ashamed of myself for having thoughts like that. They may be difficult. Not excercise. Take you for granted. Expect too much from you etc,etc,etc. But guess what when they are gone you no longer have their strength, thoughts, love, courage. You can never call them again on the phone or visit them. You will have no reason to complain about them except the fact that they are no longer with you.
Think what you want but don't forget one day they will be gone and you WILL BE SORRY.

I'm grappling with this now...especially when she tells me daily that she wants to die. And there is nothing I can do but love her and care for her until it happens.

I think we have all struggled with this thought/question. We do not want to admit it but yes we all probably have wished for an end to their torment as well as our own. My mother rants that "She will be so glad when she is gone and buried out by my father." I use to respond, I no longer do.

childofvet, You should not feel bad about wanting your dad to cross over. I want my dad to go because he is almost exactly the same way you are describing your father. My dad has had to be placed in the secure side of the NH where he has been wreaking havoc for several months now. He wants to leave and he just simply cant. He really has a lot of fight left in him but his mind is gone. His dementia has stolen away his memory except that he still knows where he is. He has progressed from trying to get a key from the nurses and threatening to hit them to kicking the door and having to be sedated. We are only on about day 5 of his being in secured side and each day he is more and more distressed. He slapping the nurses hands and they are giving him a wide berth. I feel that the quality of life he had is pretty much gone. He went from watching TV and not doing anything to wandering around clawing at the walls. There is no other choice here and I feel that he would be more comfortable if he crossed over. He could move on to his next assignment or purpose because he has nothing but severe confusion and anxiety. It's very sad to watch and to know that he is suffering psychically like this when it's so unnecessary. I just can hardly believe that it's really this awful for them. I know his spirit is in there and he has been a colorful character but since he has disintegrated to this level, it really has just become pointless. It isn't up to me of course but if he took his leave, I would be happy for him. He would be free and released from this hell inside of himself. :( Poor daddy.

Belle- I feel for you. My mother and father both smoked and drank their health and finances away. My mother is living with me now but moving out next month. She is in better health than yours, I think, but I'm not sure that's a blessing. She stares at the tv all day until 5pm when she can start drinking. What a miserable life. I wonder what's the point. And my poor kids who have to put up with a wasted grandmother every night. So you're not wrong and shouldn't feel guilty for thinking the way you do. You wouldn't want to live that way so that's why you think this. Hang in there.

BelleFleur, all of us go when our dear Lord calls us home. If you can do it, think of your mom as she will be in heaven, cured of all earth's ills. And no, it's not wrong, everyone who is weighed down with an unloving/incapable of being loved relative feels the same, don't beat yourself up for being a human being.

As I have posted earlier, I have an elderly dad (much, much older than I am) who has advanced dementia, is amputee, and is in poor health. He is in a NH and has just gone under hospice care. I have always been close to my dad and had a good relationship with him overall. He was usually kind and easy-going. Very generous on one hand and quite selfish on the other. I am his POA, and my husband and I are really the only two family members who visit him on a regular basis (every week). Anyway, it has now gotten to the point where I cannot stand visiting him because he has gotten so mean and so combative. I feel like his punching bag. Just lately he has taken taking swipes at people and hitting them when they try to feed him or assist him in some way. YES, we give him medication for ALL his ailments and that his calmed him down. but when he is mean he is MEAN, and I am still hurt and angry over this. I think that I get the worst of his abuse whenever I visit, and I do not know why his anger is directed at me in particular. One never knows if it is "safe" to approach him or not. One minute he may accept the food or drink that we are giving him and the next minute he may slap your hand or take a swipe at your face. He hit me in the face a few days ago and I was hurt and humiliated by this. I am tempted to hit his hands to make him stop, but seldom do. My husband DOES slap his hands like one might do a child for hitting others, and my father is a little more respectful towards my husband because of this. It is as if my father knows what he is doing despite the fact that he has dementia. He will take a swipe at someone or slap them, and then pull his covers closer to him (they are already up to this neck) and hold his hands in front of his face as in a defensive way. It is NO joy to visit him. He has no quality life and cannot do anything like watch television, read a book, have a conversation, or sit up in a wheelchair (he used to do the these things but he has declined so much that he cannot although we TRY to interest him in things like this). He must be miserable and he is making everyone else around him miserable. I agree with someone else when they said that they lost the person that they knew as their parent. I do not want to remember his this way. I doubt I will cry much when he passes. I have already cried over him many times before and I am cried out now.

laurabmundy
ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH YOU!! It is one thing to think of death only as a way out, end to suffering and pain, comfort and peace. My mother was very Christian, strong, Professional, Proud WOMAN and for her to deal with ALS, Lou Gehrigs the way she did was admirable!
When my mother passed I was there holding her hand, talking to her, singing to her, letting her know it was ok to let go. I was not angry and bitter and pissed off because I had to be there.. You know, these elderly people still have senses. So if you are bitter, they are bitter and mean
You are doing NOBODY any favors by being their caregiver and being so Angry. Unfortunately, you are more than likely taking years off of YOUR life by all the stress.

Another choice would be to turn ALL of MIL's care over to hubby! That way the responsibility is squarely where it should be... on HIS shoulders!

There were many times I wished mother would die... not out of spite or hate... but because she had no quality of life and spent all of her time unhappy, confused, or in pain.

Denant... there is ALWAYS a choice! It may not be one you wish to make, but not standing up for yourself is a choice. If you feel this strongly about NOT taking care of your MIL... you need to tell your husband. If he refuses to do anything about it... then you are faced with making another choice... stay or go... It sounds like hubby has already made his choice, and I'm sorry sweetie... it was mom.

Good luck.

DENANT1, for all of you who say, "you didn't have a choice", I say marriage is a partnership and it should have been disguised before the move. What really, bothers me is the level of hate and disgust from so many that say they "hope someone dies". I have dealt with some pretty brutal elders, but I never wished they would die.
Honestly, I believe this post has made a GREAT reference in the fight against Elders's and euthaniza

I was not given a choice in the matter when my husband decided to take in his widowed mother of 89 years. She is and has always been very selfish. Everything is about her and she never considers anyone around her. She lives in my house and does not give us any time alone. She is up at 5am in the morning, waiting for us. She sulks when we want to go out and she is not invited to come with us. She spends every minute of every day with my husband. She criticizes everything I do and complains incessantly about everything. We have to constantly run around and do things to keep her happy. On top of this she switches lights and plugs off in the house. I am convinced she has ocd. The worst is that my husband of 30 years takes her side and cannot see that this is destroying our marriage. Even though I love him very much I am not prepared to go on like this. His mother made my life a living hell when I was younger because she has always been like this and I never liked her. Unfortunately I am now wishing she would die.

I was not given a choice in the matter when my husband decided to take in his widowed mother of 89 years. She is and has always been very selfish. Everything is about her and she never considers anyone around her. She lives in my house and does not give us any time alone. She is up at 5am in the morning, waiting for us. She sulks when we want to go out and she is not invited to come with us. She spends every minute of every day with my husband. She criticizes everything I do and complains incessantly about everything. We have to constantly run around and do things to keep her happy. On top of this she switches lights and plugs off in the house. I am convinced she has ocd. The worst is that my husband of 30 years takes her side and cannot see that this is destroying our marriage. Even though I love him very much I am not prepared to go on like this. His mother made my life a living hell when I was younger because she has always been like this and I never liked her. Unfortunately I am now wishing she would die.

All I can say is my mother has been gone 11 years now. She had Lou Gherrigs Disease, ALS. I would give anything if my mother could be with us today. It is ironic how , as caregivers, we become tired, very tired. But I loved my mother, even at my toughest point I do not think I could say those things about her. Just as a matter of respect.
Your Mother is sick, sounds like help is needed for her and for you. Maybe you could get somebody to help you with your mother . Sounds like a break is needed and well deserved!
Good luck to you, I hope things get better. I would call the Department on aging in your area to see what goodies they may be able to help you with.

I tell and only pray that at least one of my son's will comply with my wishes, which are: Put me on the Applachain Trail with all the essentials, and LET ME GO!!!

I am sorry that you are going through all of this... I believe if I were you I would find a hospice house to place her in! I have been my families(my Grandparents and my Father, now my Mom) caregiver and trust me I have NEVER been treated that way...My Mother who is 86 and has dementia wishes to die most of the time. This really hurts me and makes me sad. My Father passed away almost 3 yrs ago. When my Grandmother was dying, she had pneumonia so she coughed and was short of breath I prayed for peace for her! She was waiting for my cousin and I had to tell her he was not coming. I did not do it to be cruel I dearly loved her but she was suffering. I knew she needed peace. take care and look for a hospice house!!!

I share the same issues with my Mother-In-Law. She has been living with me for 11 months, end stage cancer (pancreas, liver, spleen). They told us when she moved in that she had 2-4 months max, and now here we are almost a year later. I also have taken in my sister-in-law, who is special needs (Williams Syndrome). We moved my sister-in-law into my house when my MIL was diagnosed in January of 2012. My issues with my MIL have gotten so bad over the past two months that I hate being in my own house. She has always been a nasty person, lived her life making people feel sorry for her and guilting them into doing everything for her. Then after having people do everything for her, talking about them behind their backs and saying nasty things about them. She is that bitch in high school that was your best friend to your face, then talked about you and spread rumors as soon as you turned your back. So for 8 months I just dealt with it, cuz that is the way she has always been. But that all changed when I heard her on the phone with a cousin telling her that "Well, you know - she just does the best she can" She was talking about me! I couldn't believe it. I have given up everything to take care of her. I cancelled my 20th anniversary vow renewal last August, I didn't vacation for the past 18 months, I had to start working part-time instead of full-time to care for her (lost half my salary too), I only get out once a month to see friends and have taken care of her every daily need. For her to tell people that I am just doing the best I can - I have never wanted to physically harm someone more in my life. I decided at that moment, I was done letting her off the hook for the nasty things she says, and I confronted her. She refused to apologize or to see that what she said was hurtful - all she would say is that I am too sensitive and that it was a compliment. So every since then, her nasty comments about me or other family members is met by me telling her I won't listen to this and I walk away.
Last Thursday, I was awoken at 2:00am by her moaning. I walked into her room and found her on the floor in a pool of blood and urine. She had fallen trying to get to the bathroom, hit her head on the floor, gashed open her forehead and was totally out of it mentally. With my husbands help we got her back in bed, cleaned her up and tended her wound. Called hospice to make sure there wasn't anything else to do and then I stayed up all morning with her. She was out of it till Friday evening and then finally started to come around. Turns out she had stopped taking one of her medications, she was throwing it away when I gave it to her. Well, this medication is the one that replaces her liver enzymes and prevents toxins from building up in her blood. So the toxins built up, she lost her mind and become very confused, and fell...... Long story short, (cuz I could go on and on), she accused me of messing up her medications, not only did she accuse me, but she started telling family members that I was giving her more medication than she was suppose to take and it was MY fault she fell. She now keeps a log, and ever time I give her the medications, she writes down what I gave her, how much and at what time. I have never been more insulted in my life. I am the only reason she is still alive, it is my care, my feeding her, my cleaning her, my efforts that have given her this extra time with her family and she is treating me like shit. Sunday we had another fight, again she was being just awful and I told her she wasn't allowed to talk to me like that in my house. She refuses to take any responsibility for her words, her actions and the way she makes people feel. Her response is always, "your just too sensitive" or "you toke it the wrong way".
Making the situation worse is the fact that my husband will not stand up for me. He just says she has always been like this, and she won't change. Well, that is fine, but I don't have to continue to allow someone to treat me like shit in my house.
With that all said, How do I stand up to my husband and his family and tell them she is not allowed to continue to be in my house? I feel terrible, I feel like a horrible person throwing a dying person out, but I have had it. It would be a totally different situation if she just once appreciated everything I have done for her, her daughter and everything I have had to give up. But she refuses to see anything I do in any thankful way.
Wow - I really needed to vent. :)

Bhenson -- I can understand why you hardly cried when your mother died. I'm seeing my Mom die before my eyes each day. When it's over, will there be any tears left?

Ohiodaughter-- like your Mom, mine is sweet and loving. When she does die I know I will feel sadness and shed some tears, but I will also feel relieved. This is no way to live because it's not living--it's simply existing on both of our parts.

I am a caregiver for my mother and was a caregiver for my father. My dad died in 2007 of an infection/ due to dehydration and he was also diagnosed with Alzheimers. I know that he was suffering as his kidneys were shutting down due to the dehydration (neglect caused when I put him and my my Mom in assisted livng for 14 days for respite). And yes, I wanted him to die because I knew he was suffering. And he did die although not under the best of circumstances. My Mom was declining during his illness and was diagnosed with vascular dementia. Her dementia is very different from my Dad's. Although she is sweet and cooperative ,(as my Dad was altho he just wanted to be left alone) I feel I am waiting for her to die (but she is physically healthy) so I can go on with my life. She really can't do anything without help but she is happy and loving. Yet, I often wish it would all be over. I agree with the other posts that this is a very human feeling. I believe , the fatigue and weariness of a caregiver cannot be understood unless one actually goes through it. Blessings to all of you who are going through this.

What a wonderful thread.

A couple of things come to mind that I would like to comment on.

1.) The idea of "it would kill me to put my loved one into a home" is really not a healthy thought to hold onto. Nor is it a good thought to voice to an elderly loved one. Depending on the physical/mental condition of a loved one it can become necessary. So, better to hold one's tongue. And never say never.

2.) For all her "you'll never get me out of MY house", I never thought my own narcissistic mother would adjust as well as she has to Assisted Living. Now, how the other residents have adjusted to HER may be a different story....

3.) Yes, I have wished a loved one would die. I prayed for a heart attack to just take my husband when he was at end stage with cancer. It didn't happen.

I nursed him throughout his illness at home, pretty much by myself. I had Hospice for the last 10 days, but they didn't come often or stick around when they did come. They checked him, assisted me with bed-bathing him and changing bedding and left. He was comatose for his final 5 days. As I had written elsewhere, his final words to me were "no hospital" - which is what I had promised him.

4.) Yes, now I have wished that my mother would just go peacefully of a heart attack. But it is a whole different thing. She is 93 and has led a long life. She has Lewy Body Dementia and Parkinson's Disease.

Thanks to all who shared their story,
Deeana

He did not want to be hospitalized because he did not want to receive any further treatment other than pain medication. He specifically did not want antibiotics or any IV fluids. And of course, no CPR.

Dad spent his last minutes with me. My brother (who plus his wife were the primary caregivers) was in the adjacent room and asked me a question. I answered that and Dad escaped...er, passed away...almost immediately afterward. It was as if he were alive and able-bodied and slipped out the patio door when he knew the coast was clear. As much as caregiving must have been stressful on brother and sister-in-law, it was no excuse for the verbal abuse and impatience.
Now I'm a primary CG in stress I hope I never get that way.

In January of 1992, my dad died after a long bout with CHF that had extended to diabetes and eventually near-renal failure. My mom had hung in there like a trooper but when he could no longer stand, he told her that they'd have to change their living arrangements. He was in the hospital waiting for NH placement and to see if dialysis would be the next torture on his menu...
We got the call he'd passed and I WAS SHOCKED.
Why? I had begun to think my beloved daddy wasn't going to get to die! I was closest to him and I knew how bad he longed to just go to his 'long home,' as they say. He'd often said he wasn't going to take his meds so he could hurry it up but knowing the suffering he would endure waiting for the end with a chest full of fluid, he could never do it. He had been a proud and strong man who doted on my mom and never let any do anything for him if he could possibly do it for them, instead. We watched him shrink away in body and spirit.

So, that night, when my mom arrived at my house down the street to go to the hospital together, she and my (now ex) husband were hugging in sorrow in the living room and I was impatiently waiting in the hallway, coat in hand, ready to go wish my dad GODSPEED and celebrate (inwardly) with his own spirit that now he was finally free to 'fly away' home.

I know they thought it a little strange that I did not cry. How could I cry on such a happy occasion as the end of my brave father's misery?

Of course I cried at times later on, and missed him terribly...something which was alleviated when I moved back home to take care of my mom...since his spirit is here with us, I know...but the night he died, I thanked GOD with all my heart for finally taking mercy upon him and taking him away from something that was no longer a life.

I'm a registered nurse (not licensed since I don't work except to take care of my mom) and I worked mostly in geriatrics and medical (chronic and terminal illnesses). There are things far worse than dying as many of us already know.

I speak from a good and loving experience and frankly have no first hand experience of the sort that so many of you wonderful kindred spirits here have had to endure through dysfunction, narcissism, and all the rest of Pandora's box...but I will say with all honesty that I don't see anything wrong with having a desire to see the end that kind of existence, either. Someone who has spent a lifetime making those they are supposed to love and support instead miserable, confused, and resentful, can't really be living, either. I think, in fact, that it must be far worse than spending 3 years dwindling away from CHF or similar...it lasts a lifetime and it must be a painful lot of years to endure...although in a way not as bad because surely they don't even realize they are miserable if they have never been satisfied or content with life. They have nothing to compare it to.

Dying is not the antithesis of living but rather just a phase in continuing existence and depending on what one believes, can actually be a reprieve and a chance to possibly do it again in a different way...or not...at any rate the end of misery is not something to cry over, imo, no matter the circumstance.

in response to living with Alzheimers, etc. ...we went through that with my mom. It was her biggest fear. She ended up being in nursing home for almost four years and it was awful. She was a DNR, but she held on for so long. It was hearbreaking to watch, and it was worse thinking we wished she would pass. Life is hard on caregivers as well as patients.

My sister and I are thinking that too. I found out today he had his locks changed so no one can get in the house now. He is practically deaf, and cant hear if someone tries to get in now. Life Alert now does not have a key, and when I tried to talk to him about it he just told me to shut up. Its really out of control.

Who would want to live with advanced stages of alzhiemer or dementia? I want a life not an existence!

perhaps it is time to put him in the nursing home...

your mom sounds like my dad. He has COPD, smokes cigars all day and is the most negative nasty human being I have ever met. The last time I took him to Dr he was so rude to her she just shrugged her shoulders and stopped trying to talk to him about his illness. She told me to let him smoke, do what he wants, he refuses all help anyway. He has no friends, is 80 years old. I am the only one in the family who has visited in many years. My mom died recently, in a nursing home. My dad refused to visit her for the last 6 months of her illness (Alzheimers). He said she refused to open her eyes or say she loved him so why bother. He also refused to go to her funeral. He is so verbally abusive to me I can barely stand to see him each day. One brother has started coming over since my mothers death, and my dad told him he thinks I steal from him! We have a caregiver there each day, and he told her that too. He is now manipulating everyone to have drama, much as he's done his entire life.

Standingalone, your story is just heartbreaking you shouldn't have to live this way! Is there anyway your mother can go to a nursing home? Even if it means Medicaid, surely it's time - it sounds like you've given more than you had to give for a very long time.

Do I wish my mom would die? Yeah. Sometimes.

In another post I mentioned that my mom had fallen and broken a femur. She went to the hospital, then into a rehab facility. She ended up falling at the rehab center and breaking her wrist, and got sent back to the hospital, was treated for an infection and the wrist, then sent back to rehab. And that's where she's been as of 5 p.m. tonight.

I'll be honest. The time, about two weeks now, that my mom has been away in the hospital/rehab has been the most peaceful I've known in years. After 10 years, I feel I've done right by my mom. She has everything she could want or need, she's clean, her clothes are fresh, her room is fresh and clean, her bedding is crisp, I cook great meals for her that are delicious and healthy, I wait on her, running back and forth all day and night getting her this or that, or whatever. If she gets up, which is almost constantly, I have to get up, too, or God knows what she'll do or get into. I'm like the cat in a room full of rocking chairs when she's around. From early in the morning, till late at night, sometimes on into the next morning, she needs or wants something, always something, and I can't relax. I can't rest. I can't sleep. I can't get out of this house. My ass hasn't warmed a chair for more than 5-10 minutes at a time in as long as I can remember. She literally is calling for someone, or needs something, every few minutes. The times she's fallen were when I was either in the shower, or in bed asleep. For a long time I associated sleep with bad things happening, and then I found I couldn't freaking sleep even if I wanted to. Every single second, of every single day, is spent watching out for my mother so she doesn't do something stupid or dangerous, or trying to figure out what in the world she wants. One night she called me out of bed 4 times, all for trivial things, like needing one extra ice cube in her drink. Or, waking me up to get her a yogurt at 2 a.m. As I said, it's literally always something. It never, ever ends. My days are just a blur. Half the time I don't even know what day it is, if it's a week day or a weekend. I'm so exhausted and fuzzy that I wake up that way and stay that way. I can't remember the last time I actually felt energized.

Did I mention the screaming and wailing we all get to listen to at least several times a week? Before, I could kind of interpret what my mom was saying, or trying to say, even when her alzheimers and dementia started getting really bad. Now, it's so bad that I literally can't make heads or tails out of what my mom is trying to get at. It's simply pure gibberish, with a word or two here and there that I'll catch and understand, but that's about it. I try my best to be patient, I mostly just stand there and listen, maybe give her a nudge or prompt once and awhile, but anymore it's almost impossible for me to get it. And when she realizes that I can't understand, she flips her lid. She will sob, loudly, and wail, and moan, and scream...she can, I swear, keep that up for 2-3 days at a time. She just won't...stop. Off and on, all day, all night, she's yelling, and wailing at the top of her lungs, or she sits there moaning and crying, and I swear it literally sounds like someone being tortured. I cringe just thinking about it right now. There is no place I can go to get away from it. One night I couldn't stand it anymore and I ended up going outside and walking up the street. Our windows were cracked and I could here her up the drive way. It's insane. By the time she's done with one of those jags...and there are usually at least a couple a week...I'm wiped out. I'm so edgy it feels like I'm going to come out of my skin any second. I can't sit still, I'm anxious, nervous, and utterly and totally miserable. I'm so far in the dark sometimes after having to deal with that mess that it feels like I will never know anything light, or joyful, or pleasant, or anything at all peaceful, ever again. At those times I feel so trapped, I feel such a sense of desperation to REMOVE myself from the situation it's ungodly. And I have no place to run. I have to do this. There isn't anyone but me. And I loath every single second of it.

I'm sitting here thinking of my mom coming home again when rehab is done, and I'll be honest. I feel a dread that I can't find words for. I feel like I want to run screaming into the night at the thought of it. I want to curl into a little ball and beg whatever powers that be not to torture me anymore, I've done my 'duty' for 10 years, I'll be good, I promise, just please, please, please, please, don't make me do this again... I feel like I should be gibbering in a corner somewhere, babbling in total panic at the mere thought of it. I can't do justice to this kind of dread with words. And that's sad as hell. But there it is. I don't want to deal with my mother anymore, not for one more minute of one more day. This whole situation has twisted me so badly I'm worried I won't ever recover. The person that walked into this damn sure isn't the person that'll walk out of it.

Do I want my mom to die? Sometimes. Yeah. Because doing what's right for her has cost me. Right now, this minute, with my house quiet and peaceful and beautiful for the first time in ages, thinking of how it's going to be when my mom comes back here makes me shudder and cringe. It's absolutely unbearable. I honestly don't want to deal anymore. I want to get ON with my LIFE. That life I gave up, that life I'd like to live, instead of just freaking exist in, because that's all I'm doing. I'm not even human anymore. I'm just an extension of this old woman that's my mother, a convenient extra hand and pair of legs to run around and cater to her many, many, never ending needs. I don't need a name, I don't need a face, I don't need brains, I don't need to talk, I don't need to do a goddamn thing except do for my mother, day in, day out, year after endless year. You think I want to go BACK to that? I'd be a liar if I said I did. No, I don't necessarily want my mother to die, although why she'd want to live when she's never been the least bit pleased with anything, or satisfied or happy with anything, is beyond me, but I just don't want to be the one that has to deal with her. I don't want to do this anymore. I will NEVER do this again, not for anyone, unless it's one of my sons. I'm afraid of people now. Why? Because I'm scared to death they're going to TAKE even more of me somehow. Crazy, I know. But I've had one toe over the line into crazy for a long time now. This has taken so much out of me I don't know if I'll ever have a single thing to ever give to anyone again. And that's pretty sad, too, but there it is. I just want my part in this to be over. Am I selfish? Oh yeah. I feel very, very selfish. And I really don't care at this point. I simply want to take care of MYSELF for a change. In the peace and quiet. Yeah, baby. Peace and quiet. There's nothing more beautiful. Especially when you don't have any. lol