Is it wrong to hope someone dies?

Golden23, I read your post here from 5 years ago and see that you're still posting. Out of curiosity, is your mom still alive?
If not, how did that transition feel?

No..not at all an I understand what you are saying as we know no one gets out of this life alive .... an I honestly believe that when it's time why linger as it's not getting better but only worse. Don't feel guilty as you are not alone with those thoughts but rather it's the hardest thing to watch someone suffer an there is nothing you can do...I don't get the suffering part as it's so difficult to get out of this life I guess one can only pray for help from God - we just have no control over how things end but just do what you can an try to do the best even when it's not good enough an know you are not alone with those thoughts!

Unfortunately just because you are a mother in title doesn't mean you are naturally loving and unselfish. Those type of women shouldn't have the privilege of having a daughter like you,Ali. I am very sorry to hear of your past experience and admire your ability to be objective in recognizing that none of it was your fault. I hope that you find your inner peace through all that childhood chaos because that really is terrible when the people charged with loving and protecting you weren't capable of it.

Agreed - great post, ali. You said it so very well.

AliBoBalia, great above post. I agree with you totally. People who say don't live in the past don't really realize that the past shapes the future and who we are today. (hug) to you.

Just wanted to add -- I'm not wallowing in the past (though present circumstances bring up old dysfunction and pain every week or so...)

The issue is that my mother is still the same person, likely Borderline Personality Disorder or bipolar, and she is capable of being so incredibly hurtful to me at times. I never know when, exactly, that time will be, but when my mother or father is hurtful to me in the present, it does bring up the old wounds, too. Unfortunately. This is the issue. I cannot start from here and treat them as elders who are moody due to old age, because I've never known them to be different. I want all good things for my mother and my father. I can't do hands on caregiving, and that's due to my mother's inability to be self aware about how hurtful she has been, can be, still is to me... and same with my dad. There's nothing wrong with giving the amount of care that one can. To me, that's actually pretty noble. We do what we can, in spite of anything and everything. But I can't try to make the golden years rosy for my mother because "think of how loving she was to me"... because that's not who my mother was or is. She can cause chaos in my heart/head like no one else.

It's a primal pain you have to limit yourself from or you'll keep getting hurt, deeply hurt. People aren't perfect, so we all try the best we can, and we should never judge anyone else's decisions on what they can and can't take. Anyone who participates in this thread is trying very hard to "do right" by their aging parent. It's a different journey for everyone.

((HUGS)) to all of you with traumatic childhoods. This job is painful for those of us lucky enough to come from "normal" families, I can't imagine struggling forward with the added ball and chain of early dysfunction. I may never walk in your shoes (thank god), but I respect your right to complain about the inevitable corns and callouses life has wrought.

(((((ali))))) I'm so sorry...

The rage... my mother knew nothing of my struggles when I was a child/teen.  I didn't trust her to tell her anything. There was one time I had to walk home because a child molester took me to his home (I was easily seduced with a little bit of attention and a promise of some beer at 15 yo). I was a virgin. I knew, at some point, that what he was expecting was something I wasn't ready/couldn't/wouldn't do. I ran out the door and walked several miles back home. It was Wednesday night, church night, and my mother met me with slaps to the face and such anger, such rage, that I had screwed up HER evening. I never told her what happened. I never told anyone. Then there was the time I was raped by a known felon/criminal when I was 19 yo. He wanted to carjack me, take my mother's car that I was driving at that time, being home from college for that summer. I talked him out of taking HER car. That's the only thing that mattered to me. My body didn't matter to me. I was nothing. After somehow extracting myself away from him, this felon, this criminal... I made the police report and had a hospital exam... and then I went home to my mother's house. My mother cornered me and hit me in the face repeatedly, and finally I told her what had happened, and I was so ashamed. And she told me "THAT'S WHAT YOU GET" for being out late.

She learned this hateful way from my maternal grandmother, I have no doubt. I'm just sorry that both she and my aunt, her twin sister, couldn't fully break from the pattern of abuse they both endured, and were hurt by, so much in their own youth.

With parents like mine, who needs enemies? :-/ I don't feel sorry for myself but I'd be a complete fool to think they can truly change their ways at this point in their lives. I have to keep a healthy distance for my own sake because despite what their actions have said through the years, I DO matter.  My life does matter.  I'm entitled to relative peace and pursuit of my own happiness. 


:) Not easy to say these things, to talk about the 'dirty details,' but unless you've had parents who do things like this to you, you can't understand what some others deal with, the very best that we can... ya know? Thing is - people think my mother is a relatively nice person, and she is. That's a part of her, too. But I experienced the horrific rage and physical abuse that she can dish out on me, her only daughter.  I still struggle to find the boundaries with her, and figure out how to prevent her from being destructive to me in the present while I maintain some type of relationship with her.  I don't if it's truly possible to do both -- have the boundaries and have a loving relationship.  

If you judge me for needing boundaries with my mother, a safe distance from her or from my abusive father, I would ask that you live my life and see if you can be the angel/saint/martyr that I can't be.  

Oh cm, you nailed it. If I had done to my mother what she did for me... There was no safety, security nor love in all those years. There was ranting and raving, blaming and criticizing. Our home was a place of continual strife and you never knew when the next blast would be or what it would be about - often something very innocent. I remember the extreme anger, the rage my mother blasted me with when, as a preteen, I didn't wipe the kitchen table properly. I was trying, believe me, I was trying to do a very good job.

That's the point, Annie, most of us will not get to where they are as they have life long mental health illnesses/narcissism that we do not have. I have also known older people who are delightful people, right in to their 90s despite physical illnesses. If you have not lived with/had a parent who was a narcissist or a person with a personality disorder you can't possibly understand a person who has.

On second reading, I really like this bit: "Why not make it as safe, secure and full of love for her like she did all those years for you."

My mother would have been a very sad bunny indeed if I'd done that.

Well said, m2m. My mother was twice diagnosed with borderline personality disorder and refused any treatment for it. Nothing one did for her was enough or good enough. No heart to heart conversations were possible as she turned them into arguments. She ranted and raved about anything and everything and blamed others. We understood that she was sick, but there was nothing any of us could do to make it better. Professionals have told me that my mother is very lucky to have me caring for her, I have PTSD from childhood. Walk a mile or ten in the shoes that Belle and others walk in before you judge them. My mother is now 104 and I am 79. It has been a very long journey,

Well, I am not the OP but I do feel the need to address parts of your post.

It has not been "all about M2M since the moment she gave birth" It has been all about the sons. The ones who don't come around or call now. I don't know if she saw me as a rival for my Dad (a reverse Electra Complex) or if she always resented my independence and how I didn't need her like the boys did.

But she is more than happy to make it all about her now.

And when the doctor says she should be doing certain things but she refuses to, I think I can hold it against her. When the doctor says she is able to exercise and needs to do it but she refuses to, I can't help but resent her for becoming too weak to do anything.

I have made every effort to improve her quality of life. She wants for nothing. I try to take her out to do things but she doesn't want to. I buy her a van with a lift seat but it only goes out to doctor's appointments now. Sadly, everything I do to make life easier for her makes her even less likely to try to do anything for herself.

I am happy for you that you had a good relationship with your mother but please understand that there are those of us who are making great sacrifices for someone who was not quite as amazing as your mother. And we are looking for a light at the end of the tunnel.

Annie - Belle started this thread 5 years ago. I doubt she will get your message,

Ok. I'm going to be the "odd one out" it seems, because I'm not handing out sympathy to any daughter whose mother is not here to defend herself and I only get one side of the story. As is the case with most of the responses on this thread. I can already see the feathers ruffling. Take it easy. Read outside the box.

The problem I have with your post is it's all about 'Belle', which I'm going to guess has been the case since your dear mother gave birth to you.

Now that I have your attention. I want you to ask yourself. WHY did she "smoke herself to death"? Have you ever sit down and had a heart-to-heart with 'mom' and asked her why she smoked so much? I'm doubting, from your attitude, that she would share with you any heartfelt emotions, let alone the truth. If I were her, I certainly would not. Consider though that YOU may have been part of the reason she did.

Next., do you realize that CHF is a 'normal' side effect of COPD? How much research have you done on her illnesses. Have you bothered to read about them, other than on forums where everyone is brown nosing? If you truly care and want to help her, you'll stop bullying her about doing things she cannot do, and learn how to better help her and yourself and research. There are new treatments and medications coming to market on a contant basis. There are trials, organ transplants and lots of options. Research. Read.

I suggest you start with COPD and then advance to CHF and Pulmonary Hypertension, another major side effect of COPD, then you can move on to colostomy, osteoporosis and all the other co-morbidities, many of which are caused by COPD, which is not just ONE but several illnesses. With that said it's clear that your 'mom' has a lot going on medically and physically.

When you have learned how much of her life that these diseases combined have taken from her, perhaps you'll stop asking her to 'get out of bed', and understand the true reason "She says her knees gave out--", and stop a**-uming that it's something that "happens when you lie on your a** in bed all day and refuse to exercise." Perhaps you'll understand she isn't refusing.

To start you off in your research, I can tell you from personal experience that COPD, CHF and Pulmonary Hypertension all three work very hard to keep one from breathing. It's not just that your mom has one issue that affects her breathing, but she has two and probably three by now! That's a lot of stuff attacking her ability to breathe! No wonder she CAN'T exercise. She CAN'T breathe!

Lesson two- Lack of exercise makes breathing muscles weak.. (COPD, CHF, PH, Weak Muscles) leg muscles turn to mush and eventually a fall takes place, unless there is a knowledgeable caretaker with ample foresight to see the problems mounting and can prevent it from happening. 'Mom' could have had a walker, a wheelchair or any number of assistance items to help her walk so that a fall could have been avoided. How well is your home fall proof.

Lesson three- Exercising only adds to the COPD, CHF and PH that aggravates her inability to breathe normally. There comes a point in time that one is unable to move farther than a few steps and then they become bed-bound, not because they refuse to exercise, but because their disease will not let them breathe well enough to exercise. Catch 22.

Caretakers that try to bully and make these patients do more than they can, contribute to their heavy load of guilt and feelings of inadequacy. It sometimes borders on mental abuse. 'Mom', and patients like her, carry tremendous feelings of sadness and they mourn daily for the life they once had. They fear becoming a burden on their loved ones and many have daily thoughts of suicide.

Why not, sit down and talk with her, really talk with her. Get to know how she feels, what she wants out of life, what you can do to make her quality of life better. Work as a team. As mom and daughter. Stop 'blaming', and for heaven's sake stop assuming. Do the research. Learn all you can about her medical problems, it will make you a better caregiver.

Last but not least, show your mom some love. She never gave up on you from the time she laid eyes on you. She REALLY IS helpless, not because she wants to be, but because her multiple co-morbidities make her that way.

Here is a song I want you to listen to ... when you have some time alone. You may not like the artist or the genre, but I think you need to hear the words. It's called "Life Turned Her That Way" by Ricky Van Shelton.

I'll leave you with this thought..It was about Belle from the time she laid eyes on you, it's about 'mom' now. Why not make it as safe, secure and full of love for her like she did all those years for you. It's a choice you know. You are more able than she.. and she wants to love you more than you know. Don't let her illness come between you. Do it all with love. You will not regret it.



Let her leave this world loving you.

I don't think Dad is eligible for hospice yet, but I can ask.

There doesn't seem to be any fluid on his lungs, but I'm facing trouble at work if I take off any more time to take Dad to another "He's fine" appointment.

I contacted Dad's psychiatrist at the VA (which I hate), and she just upped his Seroquel again. All that seems to do is knock him out, then he gets anxious about sleeping too much.

We can't afford other care at this point, and I get the feeling that psych thinks I'm exaggerating about Dad's condition. My next step is to record his panic attacks. Maybe she'll believe me when she sees him hunched over gasping for air and pacing in circles.

...If it wouldn't hurt Dad to lose another child...I'm just tired.

Is your Dad able to participate in hospice. We did that for my Dad in his home. My sister and I mostly by ourselves. It was the most difficult thing I have ever done but at the same time I am so proud of us for pulling together with him and easing him into death in a calm and loving atmosphere.

Tiny, is your dad on Oxygen? Does it help?

Does he have fluid in his lungs that can be drawn off?

Is it time for hospice? Or if not hospice, then a higher level of pain or anxiety meds?

I re-read my post and could see how it appears that I support human euthanazia. I wouldn't go that far, but I do know the pain of witnessing someone else suffer -- what I feel is needlessly, and I have myself just asked God to just mercifully allow Dad to sleep to peace.

Our relationship wasn't the best, but I would never wish any ill will on him. The days when I hear him say how "tired" he is or how he feels "worthless" because he can't remember how to use a doorknob (true story). It's heartbreaking.

Watching him gasp for air and become anxious to the point of tears just completely wears me out. He hardly eats and has trouble sleeping... I dunno. I find myself wondering how much more either of us can take.

I think I was more upset about the suggestion that we can just walk away. It felt like a "get over it..." suggestion.

I'm a complete wreck this week, so sorry if my post seemed just as harsh.

We do have the power to end a pet's suffering and I have had to make that decision many times.
Some people feel that euthanazia is something that should be allowed. I have very mixed feelings about that because of the danger of abuse.
Wishing someone would die is a totally different subject.
A lot depends on the reason that this wish is present. Does one wish that they could have an end to their suffering? Can they just get on with it so the family can enjoy their inheritance? Is the "loved" one a miserable old cuss who is burning out their caregiver and making them ill?
Whether any of these apply depends on ones moral conscience.
Personally my hubby and I hope we are able to ease our passing when life becomes unbearable. Will it happen who knows.

Tiny, I don't altogether accept the beloved pet/parent parallel, and I don't think its being against the law is the "only" thing, or even the main thing; but all the same I completely applaud the spirit of your post. Power hugs to you!

I don't think it's wrong at all to wonder when it's all going to end... for everyone.

It's not easy to see someone suffer unnecessarily whether they are joyful, loving human beings or miserable grumps that feed on negativity. It's truly awful to watch someone's body be kept alive well past it's prime.

@ Dontask4handout, this thread isn't in the spirit of "My elderly loved one is old and a lot of trouble, let's get rid of him/her"... It's coming from a place of compassion.

"Just leaving the situation..." isn't care giving at all. A truly ill person (especially with cognition decline) CAN'T figure out how to be cared for which is why they need CARE GIVERS -- most likely they are in danger if left on their own.

Since, it's so wrong...

Picture this: A person brings a 11-year-old dog to a veterinary clinic that can't see or hear well (and is extremely anxious as a result). The dog is starting to have accidents in the house because of it's advanced age and has been constantly whining in pain. After an examination, the vet discovers that the dog has a condition that MAY be partially cured with an expensive surgery, but the animal would have to be on medication for the rest of its life.

You LOVE this animal. You've been with it all of it's life, but the surgery would be a financial burden. You really don't have the resources to care for it if you opt for the surgery. You need to work (probably extra to pay for the surgery), and how will you make sure the dog is properly cared for -- medications, companionship, etc.? So, after careful and painful consideration, you decide that the most HUMANE thing to do at this point would be to put the dog down. You take your time to say goodbye and are at the dog's bedside as it peacefully takes its last breath...

Now, take out the dog and replace with a parent, or a spouse, or a relative, or a friend. WELCOME TO THE PLIGHT OF A CARE GIVER!!! The only thing is, it's against the law to "put down" a human, so we caregivers are left to bear the emotional, physical, and financial turmoil until the end!!

IT'S NOT WRONG, and it gets me riled up when folks who DON'T UNDERSTAND the magnitude of a care giver's sacrifice to judge a completely human emotion and contemplation.

HUGS TO ALL CARE GIVERS!!!!

Yes it's wrong. The best thing to do if it's draining you is to leave the situation. Let them figure out how they're going to be cared for when you're gone

AmyGrace know what you mean. Been thinking about you and sorry have not been in touch but it seems like one thing after another. My Mom is 92 and is also miserable. (Still)(and mean).But I'm not sure.....I think she feeds on being miserable. If she wasn't miserable she would miss it. The more miserable she makes other people the happier she is. I kid you not.

This thread has been going for 5 years but it is so appropriate for caregivers as so many of us ask ourselves this. Its very hard to follow now that the font size is so HUGE and one has to go back little by little, page by page. I don't remember if I made a recent comment. I weighed in a year ago, talking about my 101 year old mother who was unhappy and complained for 25 years. She passed a few weeks later and it was a blessing. It broke our hearts over the years to watch Mom so unhappy yet so physically healthy up until she was almost 100.
As awful as it sounds, we, the family all agreed it would be kindest to her emotionally if she passed in her sleep, instead of suffering through a slow age and health decline. It didn't happen, unfortunately, and she faded away drugged with morphine in a nursing home after falling and breaking bones.  Some people who suffer want to pass, but she fought it every step of the way.  We prayed that  because of the medication, at the end, she was at peace and did not realize what was happening.    Its been a year now, we miss her, but we know she is in a better place.

I am reading the above comments and realize that the body is outlives the mind. Happens in dementia cases. Very sad. See it with my 92 year old Mother.

No, it is not wrong to wish this. For example, if the patient is very old, feeble, helpless, ill, in pain and mentally and physically gone, it would be a blessing. Another reason would be if the patient was very nasty, selfish, abusive and extremely demanding and difficult to care for and doing so was impacting the life of the caregiver and their family. This is just a natural thing to wish and I see nothing wrong with it under these circumstances.

I'm so sorry to hear about all the pain and sorrow everyone is going through. And all the difficult day to day responsibilities. Plus the grief from siblings and family about what is being done and not done and they are not even the ones doing all the work.

Even though my dad was grumpy. And everything fell on me for the most part. I still did not want my dad to die. It was getting tough. And I was burned out. But I still didn't want my dad to die. The reality of his passing is still very hard for me to process. I still wished I could have taken a step back and realized he was dying. He spent a better part of year dying and I was only getting more frustrated. I wished I had done it differently.

I watched my Aunt go through this with my great grandma--the stress and toll it took on her. She suffered from dementia but was otherwise healthy until she died from a heart attack at 94. You have to take care of yourself. Even with someone that you have previously had a good relationship with can take everything out of you. Now we are starting to enter this with my mom and grandma and I really worry about the toll it will take on my family.