Is it wrong to hope someone dies?

I noticed that one common thread in this discussion was the combination of dementia and a lifelong personality issues. I've known people with AD who were fundamentally nice people, and even impaired, were still nice people. And not every old person has dementia! I was involved with the care of both my parents, both my husband's parents, my husband, his sister, and visited my brother when I could in his last years. My brother and sister-in-law were the only ones with memory issues. My husband used to say that he sometimes wished his parents would lose memory so they wouldn't keep replaying disputes from decades earlier! My mom died of cancer when I was 17, and Dad was retired and able to take care of her. She was in the hospital off and on for her last 4-5 months, the last time for about 10 days. Our church organized relays of friends who sat with her 24/7 so we were at home the morning she didn't wake up. The friend who was there that morning has told me over the years how privileged she was to be with her. Five years later when I had finished college and was engaged, Dad, who had lived at home while I was in college (with friends to check on him often, and trips to visit my brothers and other relatives) began losing his appetite and refuse his meds. I did what I could to encourage him to eat, but we realized that his digestion was shutting down. He wound up in a hospital where my cousin. an MD, was able to be in charge of him, and I slept there for two weeks. Every day my fiance came over and Dad would tell him to "take your woman out of here!" We were very disappointed that he did not live to see us married, but I realized years later that the only thing that had kept him going after Mom died was worrying about me--the last one at home; my brothers were all married and living in different places. I once overheard Dad telling my fiance's brother that he had never met a man that he thought would take better care of me. So when he didn't need to worry about me any longer, he was ready to go be with Mom. In all these cases, I couldn't ask these folks to hang on any longer; I have often thought that our bodies are designed to wear out so that we will be willing to 'trade them in" .

She is here for a reason.... you will figure it out sometime. I wonder why my mom is still around... I think so I can accept her passing when she does. She stopped talking, and in end stages of ALZ......I wonder too, but there is a reason, and I pray that she finds peace...

When you try so hard to help someone and get no where I think this type of thinking takes place. I know when my cousins' Mother died after years of suffering. She said that her death was more of a relief than anything else. Lady in her 90's with dementia, losing a leg from diabetes etc. etc. Think it is human.

When you help someone for so long when you know there is hope, I think it is normal to hope for their passing so that can find peace again. When you see them suffer and just exist with no try of enjoyment in life you just pray that peace is there somewhere after this life...

I have not posted in a long time because I reached the point when reading, "you are not alone," no longer helped.

Vascular dementia, regular dementia, insanity...whatever my mom continues to suffer from, is killing me, my sister, her son (those who try to care for her). We have had her in a nursing home twice (both times her insane uproars convinced us to take her out). We have taken her in our homes, and now we are trying to care for her in her home because her NON STOP demands to take her home and hateful accusations forced my sister to give in and take her home without my consent because one night, my sister snapped. HUGE mistake to take her home, but it happened and we can't look back.

So now, everyone is running to her home to take a turn and I began to take my turns in my home because my full-time job in my home requires it. One may say, and has said, moving her around is too hard on her, but even when she is in her home, she does not recognize it. Yesterday, (while taking a turn in my home), she asked me 74 times where she was. "Am I in my home? Or Your home? Where am I?" She cannot be left alone. She cannot find the bathroom EVER. If she were nice, it might be bearable, but she isn't nice. I still cannot believe she is who she became. I would have never guessed my mom could become this hateful person. This dreaded, dreaded disease haunts me.

So, as soon as I answer her question of where she is, no matter where she is, she goes off on a tangent. If she is in my home, she says she wants to go home. When she is in her home and you tell her she is in her home, she asks why she is there because she doesn't believe she is in her home. From there it goes to button pushing..."Are you still married to the same man? Was the FBI here today looking for drugs? Does your son have a job? I am not senile. Take me home! Am I in my home? (Mom, I say, the doctor feels it is best if someone helps you in your home). I can live alone, she screams. The doctor said I can live alone. You just want my money. You just want my home. You are taking things from my home. There is a reason why you won't leave me alone and I am going to figure it out.I am going to call my attorney."

So, there is no joy in caring for her and pity can carry you only so far. There are no special moments or glimpses of who she used to be. But now I have forgotten who she used to be. I now question whether she was ever the person, MY mom, I thought she was.

My dad was a raging alcoholic and she joined him later in life. I was the baby. I stayed around the longest to try and keep peace, protect her. So dad knocked me around as a kid and now mom is knocking me around as an adult. When dad passed, she had multiple accidents (broken bones, breast cancer, COPD), the mini strokes (a bigger stroke) which is why we are where we are today.

I was the main stay through most of her illnesses and I could bear it until her mind started to go.

Now, she is filled to the brim with verbal torture. I cannot bear to walk in her room to take her food or medicine because instantly, she says, "Where am i?" And it starts all over again. No matter where she is, she will fight about it. I think she does not want to be a burden, but rather than be grateful--she is hateful. She refuses to think she is older...she thinks we are equal so when she sees me moving freely (she can't because she has no idea where she is or remember where it is she wants to go, she needs a walker and is hooked to oxygen), I think she secretly hates me. She forgets for a second, I am her daughter...or does she? I can't tell anymore.

The absolute most awful torture is hygiene. If I hand her a warm wash cloth to wash her face, she looks at me with pure hatred. Dear God, I cannot even begin to share what it is like handing her a tooth brush. And a bath? That takes days of preparation. I understand it is humiliating to her and I do everything I can to allow her to do it herself and keep it private, but she is so full of hate, she refuses to wash herself once I actually get her on the bath seat in a warm tub of bubbles. She thanks me when it is over, but she HATES me for doing it.

I know I am done doing this though--caring for her. Almost 3 years. It helps to hear that wishing her dead is more common than I thought. And the death wish is just wanting all of us to be free of this personal hell she is in--we are in.

It doesn't matter if she is in my care or not, because whoever is caring for her calls to vent, complain, scream, beg for release--there is no escape. My sister and I argue. There is no set schedule. I am hated most as my sister is retired and my job dictates how much time I can give. It doesn't matter where mom is, the situation has caused severe hatred and back stabbing. My sister refuses to take her back into her home because my mom says awful, hateful things toward my sister's boyfriend (they are not married). I find it unique that my mom can remember that my sister and her boyfriend are not married. I find it unique that my mom remembers specific things that she can verbally attack the person who is caring for her.

So it is time for a nursing home. My mom points her finger at us regularly threatening us if we put her in a home. We are told we cannot do it if mom refuses. We are told that we must have her declared incompetent if she is not willing to go on her own. Can someone advise?

Three doctors have told her she cannot live alone.

Whoever is caring for her in her home, mom screams at them to get out. "Leave me alone," she always says. She demands we leave her home alone, and we can't, and she demands we cannot put her in a nursing home. What happens to people that do not have a family?

Any advice? Don't bother shaming me for not wanting to suffer anymore. Three years have taken decades off of our lives...there is no pill to cure her hatred.

There is no shame in what you feel, inthestorm. Anyone would. Your words:"And the death wish is just wanting all of us to be free of this personal hell she is in--we are in" say it all for many people.
Carol

Oh, no shame at all here, dear. The doctors who say she can't live alone, are they also the idiots who say she can't be forced into a NH? Call social services in your area, have them come evaluate her in HER HOME. Tell them that there is no one willing to care for her. Alternatively, you wait until she is hospitalized and you tell discharge that you can't care for her. If your sister snaps, that's your sister's problems. Take her into your home "I couldn't possibly do that. Mom needs three shifts of caretakers. I'm one old person. that's not happening". Practice this in front to the mirror.

The interesting thing, I find, on this site, is that those of us who've have fairly normal family relationships don't find it hard to place our parents when it's obvious that they need care. It's just the normal progression of things when your parent has dementia. It seems that it's when there is overwhelming guilt and perceived obligation to give up one's life, sanity and health to fulfill an obligation that doesn't exist. You owe it to your parents to get them what they need, not what they think they want.

inthestorm, I cannot imagine what you are going through. Dementia is such a horrible disease, as we all know it is the dementia that is *talking*, but to have to deal with it 24/7, I know I couldn't.

For you own peace of mind, time for your Mom to return to the nursing home where the facility has 3 separate shifts, each 8 hours, and that person goes home to a quiet environment and is able to start fresh for their next shift.

Dear ba8alou: Yes, the doctors who say she cannot live alone are the ones who say we cannot put her in a nursing home against her will...(in other words, they want no part of the process).

Mom had a severe urinary tract infection a month or so ago and she was hospitalized for an afternoon for observation. We asked for help then, but the doctor said there was no reason to keep her, gave her antibiotics, and sent her home.

And, something else I did not mention...because she is diagnosed with dementia, she is immediately placed in wards of nursing homes with others who cannot communicate or even feed themselves. She is very capable of conversation. She needs to make a friend with someone who can share her pain. There are no in-between places for people like my mom (in my area).

It is pretty lonely during these times--for everyone.

Dear Carol: Thank you for your reply.

I feel better already but mom is taking a nap so that helps.

Next time you take her to the ER leave and go home. When they call tell them you can not take her home. You are sorry but with the dementia it is no longer possible for you to care for because you are suffering from (list and health problems you have) and you are incapable of keeping her clean because she refuses help and she is stronger than you and it strains your back. The stress is giving you head aches and your sister has already had a nervous breakdown due to the stress. You are in a no win situation both for Mom and the family. Hopefully if she goes to a facility they will be able to control her outbursts with medication. I don't advocate drugging people for personal convenience but this is for the protection of all. Maybe if her behaviour can be sufficiently modified it won't be necsesary to keep her in a dementia section and then she will be able to enjoy the activities with other patients but eventually she will become like the people she is initially placed with which is sad to think about for ones mother.
It's true others are dealing with the same problem but at some time they can no longer cope just as you can't and there is no shame in making a decision that is for the greater good of all. it is the disease that is driving the hateful behaviour. If she did not always hate you she doesn't now. Her brain is messed up as you know and so are her emotions too so she uses inappropriate ones. it is clear she can not be home either alone or in your care so there is no other alternative whether she likes it or not. do not tell her what you are going to do and do not visit for at least two weeks and after that limit your visits and leave when she becomes inappropriate. Family does need to visit and attend care planning meetings so you can advocate for her. Do not expect the hospital staff and social workers to be nice to you for as they will put it "abandoning" your mother. they may yell and threaten but they can't put her on the street or call an ambulance to bring her home. If they do that lock the door and refuse to answer. Tell the hospital staff if they threaten that you will call the police and acuse them of elder abuse and tell the State medical board what they did. it won't be easy to be this fiem and it will help if you can have a friend either stay with you or go to their house. hope this all works out for you keep in touch however you handle this it will be information for others that find themselves at the end of their rope in future. Blessings

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My other "first question" is, has she been evaluated by a geriatric psychiatrist. In my experience with my Mom, they are the only docs left who actually look at the whole patient, not just the relatively healthy heart and lungs and legs, but the suffering and the acrimony and bitterness that is exacerbated by dementia. Which may be ameliorated by meds.

My question is... What can we do now so we never ever ever put our children in the position our parents have us in? I have lost so much in the past 9 years while caring for Mom and Dad. My relationship with Mom and Dad is destroyed by Dad's meanness, Mom's whining and my resentment. My grandbabies have grown up, my husband and I miss our carefree ways. So many movies I've wanted to see but couldn't go to, no time to have long phone calls with my best friend. etc, etc, etc. I swear I will never do this to my girls !!! What can I do now to prevent them from having to be in this position. I tell them to put me in a home and leave me there. I think I am going to write a directive and have it notorized.

Lizzie exactly the right thing to do and think about placing your parents too.

The way I look at things is: People do the best they can with the tools they have at any given moment in time. Each of us are different, some aren't the fuzzy, loving kind, some are nasty. I don't think you should feel guilty. The two of you don't have a great relationship-that's just the way it is. You can't change her. It's also not wrong to wish her death to give her relief. I can see how you can have mixed feelings. All the events that happen to us as we grow up determine the type of person we become when we are adults, to some point genetics can also determine some traits. It's too bad she wasn't a different type of person. She has numerous medical issues, she probably doesn't have the energy nor feels like moving or doing anything else that could help her. If she were in a long term care facility, she may have greater motivation to do more for herself. Contact your local Area Agency on Aging or Bureau of Senior Services, they have a caregiver support program and they can also guide you about options for your mom. Remember, there are many people out there who have had or are experiencing the same type of situation. It is never wrong to wish someone relief of illness. I'm sorry you have had to go through this.

Lizzie, I know exactly want you mean by having resentment. I feel the same about my parents because they had a wonderful fun filled 25 years of retirement. I am pushing 70 and don't see a fun filled retirement at all... the stress has burnt me out even though what I am doing is minor compared to what families have to endure.

Then there is the fact that I wasn't blessed with children... so who is going to drive ME to all the doctor appointments, get MY groceries, etc. I had to scrimp and save, go without for decades to have enough money to buy into a nice retirement facility. I still drive an 18 year old vehicle, which I love because it has saved me so much money :)

My dear Belle. I fully understand your question and please, please do not be ashamed for wishing your mother not to suffer any more. I lived with my husband who was an Alzheimer's patient for 13 years. The last 3 years I had to place him in a specialized care centre. And I must admit, when I saw him struggling and suffering, my heart was pierced that badly that I prayed the Lord to take him back with Him. Why are we so afraid of telling the truth. When one of our beloved ones gets in such a bad situation that it is no longer in no way "LIVING", then we should not feel guilty or ashamed for wishing them dead. I' m sorry to be so late in answering to your question, but I have just read it this morning. So please, try to take a certain distance from her day by day, and when she finally will pass away, it will be the best for HER but also for YOU ! No, you are not alone. I have been in the same situation, and the day my husband died, I have thanked the Lord a thousand times because now all suffering was over for everyone concerned. With love and warm regards.

No. I was relieved that my poor brother was no longer suffering. I believe it is only natural to want those that you love to not suffer any longer. Though I still cry occasionally and it's been 22 yrs

It is not wrong to feel what you are feeling. I learned once, through a psychologist, that "feelings" are neither bad or good.......they are just feelings. I know exactly how you feel. My mother, the same as yours, was always an unhappy person full of negativity and that is how I grew up. I always explained it as "we were a reflection of her in the mirror" - some people should never have children because the children suffer from their problems. I got to the point where I just had to stop visiting her because I just couldn't take the negativity anymore!!! For once, I had to put myself first - felt a little guilty but had to have some peace for myself! I will pray for your mom and you. I always said that after my mom passes, I will break out the champaign - sounds terrible but at last she will finally leave me alone and the abuse will finally end!

@InTheStorm - do NOT listen to what the doctors tell you.

Get a lawyer. There are MANY OPTIONS that do not include NURSING HOMES. Yes, even for your mom. Even if you don't have money. Whatever. Once again, there are many options (and I didn't know this) that do not include nursing home care. If you look back at these boards, I did not know the difference between Assisted Living, Memory Care, etc. I do now. And I'm sorry I did not get a lawyer way back!

If you don't get the lawyer, you are going to find yourself spending more money than the lawyer fee.

NOTHING a doctor has told me has ever been true re the law. NOTHING. They do NOT know. They have so many patients, it's not even funny anymore. It's almost like, "Next!"....

I am so relieved to find this forum. I am new to this whole nursing home thing. My mother was placed in one after spending 2 weeks in a psych ward for suicide attempts. She is on her second home in a month because she hated the first. She refuses to eat the food there and wants me to pick up fast food and bring it to her during my work hours, after work, on my day off, etc. I have a small child and a demanding full time job. if I don't jump to her requests daily I am guilt tripped beyond belief. I finally lost my temper last week. I have to stand firm and stop jumping to every request. She put herself in this situation by neglecting her health for decades, then abusing pills. She abandoned me as a child and now expects me be her servant. It's very depressing and frustrating. I have only one life to live and she made a good part of my early life miserable. Now, in my 40s I am reliving what she's done to me all these years. I wish God would just take her. It would be better for everyone.

We all have our feelings and a right to express them. I just wonder why those who are mentally ill have such a pull on their adult children. How do they still push buttons when they really have little control over anything in their life anymore?

When they have dementia and their thinking is very damaged, it's not as if they are trying to drive you crazy. They may make demands for things, but they are mentally damaged....it doesn't mean we have to cater to it. I know my loved one gets plenty of good food at her Memory Care facility, so I would not agree to bring her food from the outside. This is something she is not able to understand, so I have to make that call for her benefit.

My loved one ignored her health for years too. She refused to take her medication, no matter how many times I begged. She refused to see a doctor, even though she needed to desperately, but now her mind is not all there. She has no idea she ever had diabetes or high blood pressure. She doesn't even know her own date of birth. There were times when she was beligerantt, but those days were a phase, IMO and she no longer has the will or energy for that that kind of resistance. Now, she's quite docile and not in touch with reality. The only thing I can feel for her now is pity and I do hope she's not suffering.

Dementia is not the case here; It's narcissism, denial and negativity. I think that makes it even harder to deal with.

cheshirecat - narcissism etc. is very hard to deal with My mother has Borderline Personality Disorder with narcissism, and recently she has developed vascular dementia as well, which has made her very difficult indeed. Thankfully she now has appropriate meds and care in a geriatric psychiatric hospital. She was expressing suicidal thoughts too.She will soon be moved to a more permanent facility and I can only hope and pray that she continues to do as well. Whatever you do, don't jump to all the requests - they are unending. There are good books and web sites on being the child of a narcissist. I found them very helpful. Believe me, there are many here who understand. I finally decided that I had to do what I thought was best and if she got angry or upset I would reduce contact. Mother is cared for by professionals and I have reduced contact.

sunnygirl - unless you have been brought up by a narcissist you will not understand how they still push buttons. Many of us here still struggle with that. I think many of us suffer PTSD from childhood experiences which essentially were emotional abuse. Being brought up by a mentally ill person leaves its mark, Though we can learn to deal with them and ourselves better, the past scars remain, You can't compare it to an elderly parent developing dementia. The narcissist has been making unreasonable demands since childhood, and has "imprinted" certain expectations on their children from birth. I am sorry your mother did not care for herself, but glad she as good care now..

I certainly hope it's not wrong to look forward (sort of re-phrasing) to a person's death. Especially when the person themselves in miserable, has no quality of life...so many sad people take such a long time to depart, I remember my Grandma saying about Grandpa--"I just don't want him to outlive my love for him". I think we all want that.

Hi Midkid58, my Mother is 90 years old and she says she hopes God takes her every day. She has been talking about that since she has been 86!!! She is so miserable about everything. From Morning to Night, every day!! I have gotten both my parents the best medical care going form July 3rd 2012 on. They are 89 for Dad and 90 for Mom. They don't enjoy anything. Food, Holidays, family events nothing at all. I did what I believed was right. I am an only child and both parents hate me. Nothing is enough for them. Both dementia ridden. Dad said that he and Mom spoke and they said that they were sorry that they had me. So you are not wrong at all for feeling as you do. You can not win with elderly people. Dad wants to die on the sofa. Sorry for us all.

Cher--My mother told me she was sorry she had ANY kids--and that was 30 years ago. Well, sorry, mom, you did. I think once she's gone, I will need a long time to heal from the pain she's caused me and my sibs.

So many solid responses- and I cringed when I read the well-written one that was directed at someone who has obviously spewed very negative stuff on this site.I do agree, that has no place here, where only positive suggestions should be made. But sometimes, people can develop so much resentment that they aim it in the wrong direction and "that" is what can happen.
I will add my voice to the many who have said out loud, or just 'thought' about wishing for the peaceful death of their parent. It's normal. For those who have said it, know that you've helped others, who have not come to terms with it.
Yes, it is difficult to acknowledge (even to yourself) that you hope for an END to the struggle, both for the suffering parent whose quality-of-life has diminished, as well as for yourself, so you can go on with your life. We all feel guilty the first time we have that thought. I will say again "It's normal" to want suffering to end.
This feeling is further complicated for people whose upbringing has been hurtful and unsupportive. It can feel like there is some 'payback' at play, when the not-so-loving and wonderful parent, who has seemingly brought their physical ailments (and their loss of some of their children) on themselves. It's logical when you see this happen to a person who has abused their own body for years, and refuses to 'help' themselves now. Maybe THEY want to be done with their own life. Maybe THEY are also sick and tired of being alive, and have regrets. Every situation is unique in it's origins, but the FEELINGS about it are quite universal. There is no shame about looking into a nursing home. The caregiver is the one who ultimately has to make the decision, which will provide care for the elder AND allow the caregiver their life back. And their sanity. Bless You!

NO. WE each have our own journey.

I realize the original post was written back in 2012. However, I see it's still attracting many people.

I used to think death would be better until I watched 'Fade To Blank' which is on this Aging Care Website. I've looked at my mother and others in a different way.

I've seen how people in the nursing home portion of my mom's rehab center treat those with dementia/Alzheimer's and I have a different prospective. I believe advanced Alzheimer's should be treated as a serious end of life issue and Hospice should be able to take people in thus weaning them off drugs that are keeping their bodies alive when their mind is no longer working. And there are so many advances being made with MRI, testing, that tells professionals and their patient's families with much certainty just how advanced the illness has become.

There are many excellent books out there now regarding end of life issues, different methods be tried in nursing homes, assisted living, etc. I think now the main issue is how to wade through the bureaucracy involved with all the medical issues and ways we are treating our older people in today's more enlightened ways.