What happens when nobody wants the job?

I was in this situation too, until my mother fell and I said no more! She got put in a nursing home and I have a life back, however, still have a lot of guilt leaving her there. Also have hard time sorting truth from dementia, she says they are mean sometimes,. Hubby and I want to do part time in Florida and am having hard time with leaving her. Have someone that I can pay to check on her once a week.

Join the club..it’s a familiar problem. Try to hire private help just to get them showered or sponge bath if parent can’t stand or walk. & Aide can help them dress & with eating. My mother can’t stand or walk & has dementia so it’s a major challenge. She was in nursing home for 10 months & I discharged her & took her Home. Turned Home into makeshift nursing home. She is combative at times so then it’s a major challenge. But she’s 91 now so I figure it can’t go on forever...& Dementia/Alzheimer’s gets worse as I am witnessing. If I had to do over, maybe leave her in nursing home but that would leave her broke..Medicaid wasn’t available since it wouldn’t kick in for a long time. I do everything including financial & health related...filling her scripts, paying bills, prepare her taxes, take her to Drs ...& there’s Drs that do Home visits too! To make long story longer, my sibling, brother older than me & has his own business & life. I’m 59yo . I don’t know how old you are but you cannot do it alone. I did it all alone when my mother was able to walk w walker & didn’t have dementia/Alzheimer’s . But now I need help or I’ll have a stroke. Good luck & pray you make best decision for everyone involved.

Your caregiver situation is going to AGE YOU very quickly!
Have the talk, TODAY!
Do not ask her what she wants.
Tell her what you are going to do for yourself.
Tell her she has some hard choices to make (hiring help or AL)
Do NOT move your parents in with you and your partner.
That will ruin your new relationship quickly.

Catmomma, you are going to find the majority of posters will recommend you put LO in skilled care and "reclaim" your life. In many/most cases they are probably right, but even when you ask for help keeping someone at home because that is the choice you have made, many postings will only be about convincing you to end home care. I don't think those posting are meant to be judgmental, but because those posters really feel that's what would be best for you and your family.

As I understood your posts, you are considering putting mom and dad in a modular home on the same property where you, your daughters, and your partner would be living in a separate house. I think having separate and larger living space that doesn't need consistent repair is a good idea, although I share other posters concerns about placing that home on someone else's property. Would your dad consider moving into that space when he is discharged even if mom wouldn't yet? Does dad have the financial resources to purchase the modular home on he's own?

Mom is going to fight moving for various reasons, including loosing control. She likes the power of being able to say "in my house". You could probably take the animals with when you move even if your mom purchased them because (1) she's not going to want to complain to authorities and risk them taking actions she cannot control and (2) mom cannot take care of the animals. Your talk with mom needs to be that you are moving (no question of if) and the only thing that needs discussion is whether mom is coming with you to a nice new place or whether she prefers to be alone in the old one.

If possible, consider setting up the modular, moving dad into it, moving yourself (with most animals), and telling mom you will move her into the modular when she's ready to go. Seems like you are close enough to check on her daily, take her some prepared food, care for an animal you leave with her, etc. Take her to visit your dad in the modular and make sure your time with her in the old house is very limited. Tell mom she needs to move to the modular where you can better help her before APS steps in and takes control.

Make your plan that good for everyone and stick to it! Don't feel guilty for giving mom what she needs and not what she wants. God bless you.

In answer to Xenajada - Yes you can be charged with elder abandonment, at least in some states. If the person dies from lack of care you could face criminal charges. But it depends on the level of impairment of the elder. It sounds like Catmomma's mother is well enough to pick up the phone and call an agency or call other family members to ask for help, and it sounds like she has money to pay for it. Personally I would not advise removing oneself from such a situation without at least attempting to put alternate care arrangements in place.

So my question - if you are living with an elderly bedridden relative, acting as caregiver and you move out (as any sane person who is being treated that way would do), can you be charged with abandonment or elder abuse?

Cannot imagine the new man putting up with this for long and agree with cmagnum about Stockholm syndrome. Granny sounds awful and I would extricate myself.

Also you say your bf is financial well off..i truly hope you are not relying on that and don't believe your brother who took the money from your mom to help pay for her care during medicaid penalty period. .sorry to be harsh but you are in for huge shock in short period of time if you continue on this road..another issue is dealing with APS possibly in future if she lives with you because judging from her behavior that is almost a guarantee 

I hate to say this but it sounds like you are making a lot of decisions basing on new boyfriend or husband and that is dangerous because i can almost guarantee that stress of caring for your mom will weigh heavily on this relationship in a very short period of time and hope you are prepared to go solo if the stress is,too much for relationship. .easy to say i will be there for you before it gets really bad but be prepared to be strong on your own uf necessary and fact that she recently gifted money will royally cause issues with medicaid eligibility..the fact she demanded opioid and threatened suicide should have been huge red flag of things to come....remember this never gets easier

Yes, I believe you’re right, Surprise. The OP’s original post is moot. I believe she asked what would happen if there’s no one to care for her LO, but she has no intention of striking out on her own. I also believe that should she, herself ever need care, her daughters will, because of the example she has set for them, devote themselves to her care and put their own lives on hold. I believe she was truly asking for validation but did not really find it here. My heart hurts for her, but this is the life she has chosen for herself and her girls.

I'm seeing a red flag here. Not only does Mama want to run the OP's life by fussing about who she sees, how long, and where, but the OP's special friend keeps the OP on the phone even while he's at work. Both seem to me to have controlling behaviors towards the OP. The daughters are being trained to do what their mama does by watching her.

Catmomma, Carla is right. I am in no way offended and I don’t believe anyone else is either, or should you be. But we aren’t exactly telling you what you want to hear. What happens to an elder when there’s no one to take care of them? If someone reports them to Adult Protective Services they become a ward of the state. They are evaluated and placed in the proper facility, either a psychiatric institution or a skilled nursing facility. Their ill-humors and attempts to “run the show” are pretty much disregarded because they’re just a part of the whole now and they are in a group of people who pretty much act the same way. Any funds they have go towards their care.

If you truly want to continue having your life lived for you with no hope of a “new life” in the foreseeable future, you of course can continue along the path you have chosen. No one will openly judge you. Some will praise and admire you for your dedication. I feel for your daughters, however. Now, if they find partners they wish to spend their lives with, will they feel obligated to spend their lives with Grandma and Mom according to the example you have set and bring their partners into this “fold”? Is this what you want for them? You may say they’d be free to leave, but would they? They may feel they need to follow Mom’s example.

I can’t speak to the others who have posted here, but I know if I had the means and I were in your situation, I’d be looking at Assisted Living at the least and maybe even Memory Care. It would be my choice of place and I would not be abandoning my mom. If Mom rants and raves about it, well, I’d look at my kids and new man and decide I deserve a new life and a happy one as well and it was time to leave the stress behind. But I am not you and you are not me. If you are not “on board” with the idea of independence from this situation, nothing we say is going to make much difference in what you decide to do.

Catmomma - I don't think you've offended anyone here. I think what many of us are seeing is that you are acting against your own best interests, and we're trying to help you see the situation from that perspective. Many of us have experienced unreasonable demands from our elderly parents and have had to work through our own reluctance to set boundaries and our fear of disappointing or angering our parents. So we try to give others a hand up when we see them in a similar situation. Everyone here is only trying to help you. We know how difficult it can be.

@Ahmijoy

I'm sorry I didn't mean to offend you when you say I have a rebuttal. I suppose I thought this was like an online discussion and not one sided, me listening? After I thanked everyone for their suggestions another poster above asked me to keep the discussion going. We all learn from eachother?
You may all be right and I do get frustrated sometimes. When she's pleasant its not a chore but when she's nasty it becomes a lot to ask. I didn't mean to make anyone feel any sort of way on here. I honestly just wanted to know if anyone knew what happens to the person who can't do for themselves if nobody is there to help and I got questions about the situation so I answered them.

Catmomma - I have to agree with the above two posters. It seems that you aren't ready to consider changing your circumstances, and you're offering up rationales for keeping it as it is. I think it's okay to say that you're just not prepared to disturb the universe to the extent that seeking a new life unencumbered by your mother's care would require. But keep in mind what everyone has said here. You're not obligated to do this. There are alternatives. There are also many gradations between taking total responsibility and taking no responsibility. You have the right to consider any or all of those.

I suspect that maybe you are still seeking something from your mother - some validation, appreciation or approval that you have never gotten and that you know you never will get if you fail to live up to her expectations as a caregiver. It may be hard to accept the reality that with a parent like your mother, you will never get that no matter what you do. You've made unbelievable sacrifices for her, yet instead of being overwhelmingly grateful for that, she's complaining about your choice to have a boyfriend. Again I suggest that if at all possible, you go back to therapy to work on your need to please your mother and sacrifice for her at your own expense. It would be much better for you and all your loved ones if you succeed in working this out in your own mind while your mother is still alive.

Catmomma, you sound like so many abuse victims who have fallen in love with their abuser. It is called the Stockholm effect. It is a condition that causes hostages to develop a psychological alliance with their captors as a survival strategy during captivity. No wonder you don't really hear what your therapist is saying about leaving your mother. Plus, you have effectively taught your daughters to abide by the same psychological alliance. It is your choice to remain a captive and an abuse victim, but I sure would not.

Catmomma, as I’ve read through your posts and those of others, I see a common thread here. You seem to offer a rebuttal to what everyone is telling you (including me). Were you asking for advice or validation? Do you want us to tell you we approve of what you’re doing? Your intentions are very noble. A lot of people (me included) could never do what you are doing. Your daughters are your flesh and blood and have your values. They see what you are going through and are not going to abandon you or complain to you because they love you. If you are determined to remain in this situation, so be it. I admire your determination.

@mally1

Yep, roger that. It's already in the works. We've seen some houses two hours outside NYC with enough land for lots of them.

Cat, a little off the subject, but you mentioned taking your daughter's horse to your new place.... Please get another horse, a pony, donkey, or something for a companion for it. Horses often get very depressed and anxious when they're alone, especially alone at night. Our gelding lasts about 4 days/nights before his head is almost dragging the ground from staying up all night doing lookout on his own. When our donkey died suddenly in November, we had to scramble around and borrow a horse for our horse. Just say'in....

When you say village, its funny because both times recently when she was hospitalized the first time they gave her ativan and the second time they gave her ativan and then a little later they also gave her benadryl. And I laughed at the nurse and said I know why. They did it because she was screaming at them to turn down the machines and turn off the lights and take off the blood pressure cuff she can't take it it's going to pop her arm lol. I took her for medical care and she acts like she's royalty and can command people around. I warned her if she kept screaming at them and using profanity they won't stand for that they will commit her on the spot so she shut up.

@Barbbrooklyn

I hear what you're saying. I said that I didn't want the job after she started her abusive behavior. I don't mind taking care of her. I don't work so I have all the time. Its like having a baby again. But she's so abusive and angry all the time and that's a drain. I read a lot of posts on this website and its given me lots of insight and help already just knowing what other people are going through. I didn't know it was common for elderly to blow up and scream. I just thought that's how she is. Or maybe being elderly gives her the excuse to now and its acceptable? I don't accept it when she does it though. I usually walk away from her and let her scream. She won't get up out of the bed so its like putting a baby on a time out. I'm still young yet and have an awesome family so I have a lot to be happy for. I can take her misery most of the time. We actually had a talk today after the doctor's apt. I told her she needs to relax and stop trying to control every one and just let everyone do what they have to do. I got a death look, but no response. :-)

Cat; Antidepressant therapy has come light years since your mom was in her 30s. Does she understand that?

It's not a matter of "you're mean and rude and so you go to a home". My mom was the sweetest person on the planet; you couldn't find a more considerate soul anywhere. But she HAD to go to Indepednent Living, and later to a Nursing Home. NOT because of her behavior; because she needed a higher and different level of care than could be gotten in her isolated suburban home; no public transport, no sidewalks to walk on, no one around during the day. Even though we tried having 24/7 aides come to care for her, if it snowed, they couldn't get there. And she felt afraid that they would break something, so she wouldn't let them do anything!

Sometimes our parents need a village to care for them, and we're just not enough.

@Isthisrealyreal

You're absolutely correct. My therapist did mention narcissist behavior. I reward my girls for all they do for her every day. I spend all my money on them and so does my guy. The youngest got a horse and that's her therapy. I take her to ride and we are looking for a house with land to put him with her in the yard. The oldest goes out and parties with friends and goes shopping and so we all have things to keep us happy but my mom has to lay there miserable in bed. Even if she put herself there I still feel sorry for her. She came from the generation of rules and caring what people think so she never got to just let loose and experience things in life to get happy. She has no hobbies and no friends. This is the mother I was given. My guy is supportive and has said that he's willing to do whatever I want with her. He's super strong mentally and physically. He's ten years younger than I am and he's got it in him to put up with her. Like I said she's tried to keep us apart and keep me from seeing him and I just get rooms or go to NYC. She hates it when I leave so she eased up and let him come to me. He's a first responder in NYC and works six days a week. We stay on the phone constantly while he works. When she's with me she used to complain about it that she has no privacy with me to talk because he can hear everything. But I told her that he pays for my phone bill so that gives him the right to keep me on it as long as he wants. She accepted that reluctantly so because I've managed to get my guy into my life like I want even with her resistance makes me believe that I can make her accept the change after the move. It's either me or a home and I know on some level she must understand that.

@BarbBrooklyn

I've spoken to her about my dad needing a home attendant and the VA will send a nurse to make sure he takes his medicine regularly and also checks on his health everyday. I told her she could get the same service if she would let people in. She runs things here because this is her house. I know you're right about her maybe having an undiagnosed mental illness but I've dealt with her this way all my life and I know she's just different from the rest of the world. I got saved by leaving when I was younger and getting the chance to meet other people and have different experiences living with other people to see her way of life is not right. But I also see that it's her life and she has the right to live however she wants.
None of her other children want anything to do with her except for my brother in Texas. But he only calls for help, money. He's come up once in like 15+ years to visit and she pays for his hotel stay, dinners for him and his wife and takes them shopping. My mother let my brother come stay with her after he got out of jail and the fence needed to be fixed and he was agreeable but never did the work. She told him to get a job if he wouldn't work for her around the house. She had to take him to all his interviews because she didn't want him to drive her car. And that ended up with her screaming at him that's he's 50+ years old and should be taking care of himself that she doesn't care if he starves. So what I'm getting at is she is mean but she also gives my brothers help. And I feel sorry for her that she helped them and gets no help from them in return. It was getting away and hearing other people explain my mother to me that has given me the strength to deal with her and have consideration for her situation and way of life. Mental illness wasn't addressed back in her time like it is now. Back when she was younger and should have been evaluated and treated it wasn't something they talked about. She was put on antidepressants at one time in her thirties and they made her hallucinate. I think if she was living with me in my home and not hers if something should take a turn for the worst then I could have nurses that care for her help me convince her she needs to be at a facility that can take that on for her.
But me saying to her now, listen, you're mean and rude and I'm leaving and you either go into a home or figure it out but I'm not doing this anymore...the thought of that just doesn't seem right.

Catmomma, your mom is a narcissist, please google psychology today, how narcissist really think. You must NOT bring this toxic person into your home, they have the money to pay for care, if your dad doesn't want to remain live in partners, he is financially able to make it where he chooses. She can self pay and the brother she is gifting can deal with her needs until she qualifies for medicaid. I am not trying to be hurtful or mean, take the animals that your daughter wants and call the SPCA, she can't do a thing for those animals herself. Without  your daughters and yourself those poor things will suffer and that is unacceptable, you enable her to be what she is. You said she has always been this way, it will never change, she will start bullying her wishes on all in the house, your home, because she was fine and you made her move. Please rethink having her live with you, you have found a great guy are you really willing to lose him? We all have our breaking points and from what you've said, your mom will push and push until she gets her way, she has no boundaries so do not kid yourself that she will behave more appropriately. She has an excuse or argument for everything and anything that doesn't suit her.

My dad is the same way and quite frankly I never learned, nor do I want to learn how to accept and live in the chaos and hate that these people thrive on, I mean, really who finds name calling and degradation acceptable? You can have empathy, just don't offer your daughters, your BF, your home or yourself as sacrifices to this woman called mom. If she won't accept professional help, she may very well be drug screaming and kicking from an unsafe environment, this would be her doing, not yours. She has trained you well to be her scratching post, please stop the insanity for your daughters sake, show them you can love and help without being devoured, that boundaries are good and that our personal choices have personal consequences and sometimes they are as ugly as the personality that made them.

Sorry I am so long winded, I am literally freaking out that you think you can change your mom, you can't and you and your daughters deserve soooo much better then she will ever give you. She is all she cares about or she would not be bedridden, jump, fetch, carry, you trashy dresser, you owe me, my house my rules, blah, blah blah... That's what she is conditioning you all to get used to, she has shown you who and what she is, BELIEVE HER.

May God give you strength to let her live her life and the courage to live yours without her.

Cat, what makes you think that your mom will be any more accepting of a home attendant or nurse in a different house?

I think that you aren't acknowledging the extent of your mom's mental illness and the likelihood that her mental status is only going to decline, going forward.

This is a very hard road. Please continue this discussion here; we all learn from each other!

@Carla

I agree with you wholeheartedly. She's always has lots of animals. She did cut back a long time ago. My sister made her take all the other turtles and fish to the river in the spring and set them free. Then they filled her outside pond in with dirt so she couldn't get anymore. But before she couldn't walk she went right out and bought pre forms from Lowe's and stood them up in the yard to one day get more. I've asked her about selling some of the birds but she says she wont. She won't rehome the dogs and I don't think my daughter would either. I have my own cat lady starter pack.
But again this brings me back to my original plan of thinking that if I moved things could change some. Getting out of the small house and into a bigger one with more room so that my parents could have their own space seprate from pets for nurses to come work with them. I looked into hiring a home health attendant after one responder suggested it and I think I can get an adult babysitter on days that I will be gone for long hours to sit with her. You're all very correct that it's a lot of work. And like I said I don't mind most days but its good to hear all this and have a someone else to make suggestions. So thank you all.

Oh, and about this:

"She has seven birds large and small. She has four dogs and five cats, and a turtle."

How did it happen that two debilitated elderly people, one of whom is bedridden, are living in a small cramped house with four dogs, five cats, seven birds, and a turtle. Are they crazy???? That's a lot of animals for anyone. A lot of money that could be used for your parents' care, and a lot of work to place on the shoulders of caregivers who are there to take care of the disabled humans. I love animals but geez..that menagerie needs to be pared down a bit. A lot, actually. In addition to the expense and the labor, it's unhealthy to live in close quarters with so many animals.

@countrymouse

I did take her to therapy after the accident she didn't like it because she said they expected her to do things she couldn't do before the accident. She has osteoperosis and spinal stenosis. When the physical therapist asked her to pick up marbles with her toes and put them in a jar she told the therapist she didn't have monkey toes like she does. The doctor who set her ankle said she should be up walking however she has to get around but my mother said she felt like she would fall so she doesn't do it. I talked to our family doctor at one of her appointments and asked what else we could do to get her moving and my mom thought it was an attack on her and blew up at me and the doctor and screamed to be taken out to the car. I let the girls do it and I stayed and talked to her doctor and she said she's sound and knows her own mind. She chuckled that She's spoiled.

@CTTN55

My therapist said we should leave her. She said to just nicely tell her that I'm moving out and give her some time to let it sink in show her we are packing and moving things and then don't return. But do it so there's enough time for her to make other arrangements. I can't do that though because there aren't any other people unless professional. And after we saw that woman across the street being drug out of her place I started to wonder if that's going to be my mother. My therapist said nurses should be doing the job that we do for my mom. She won't let them in her house though because the one nurse who did come in to set up the oxygen for my dad focused on the animals. She said it's a full time job for us with just them and didn't the city have a limit on pets. That scared my mom into thinking she was going to call the SPCA so she refused letting anyone else in. She's embarrassed that she uses the potty in the living room. She sleeps there so again that's why I thought moving would change a lot of this.

@Carla
We all got letters after therapy was over saying that we all completed. We talked about how my mother made everyone feel sorry for her. I talked to the girls on the ride home and asked if they thought Mimi could take care of herself and the youngest daughter said she couldn't leave the pets and not know what would happen to them. The dogs all sleep with her. I don't know if I'm allowed to just take them with me or if I have to leave pets we share or since we take care of them anyway can we claim them? We hit a stalemate the last time we fought about me moving and she said you're not taking the bed I bought with you and I came back with that's ok I'll take the one I bought you. I still have the paperwork. I bought her a hospital bed because it's adjustable and memory foam mattress. But I don't like the confrontation. It feels like I'm being a bully when I say anything like that to her even if I'm right and she's wrong or whatever it feels like she's old and I should just let it ride. I guess that's my own issues, feeling pity for her. She was always a fierce woman and now She's old and nobody cares about her. I can see what everyone is saying that she brought it on herself but it still feels wrong to just let her figure it out.

Catmomma - if you can possibly arrange it, go back to therapy to work specifically on the issues that keep you tied to your mother despite her nastiness and caring more about her life and her problems than about your own. Setting boundaries is very difficult at first, and parents like yours (and mine!) do all they can to make it impossible. The anger, the guilt-tripping, the pitiful-me crying, the accusations of betrayal, it's hard to see past all that and see the reality for what it is.

Maybe you could make things a little better by bringing your parents to a new home. But then one of them will get sicker, or one of your daughters will move out, or the stress will cause issues between you and your bf, and something else will break. This is a plan that is doomed to fail, IMO. Your life will get squeezed out of you trying to please everybody but yourself. Don't do it. Work your mind around to detaching with love. You can oversee your parents' care without getting yourself, your daughters, and your partner neck-deep in it.