What happens when nobody wants the job?

Cat; Antidepressant therapy has come light years since your mom was in her 30s. Does she understand that?

It's not a matter of "you're mean and rude and so you go to a home". My mom was the sweetest person on the planet; you couldn't find a more considerate soul anywhere. But she HAD to go to Indepednent Living, and later to a Nursing Home. NOT because of her behavior; because she needed a higher and different level of care than could be gotten in her isolated suburban home; no public transport, no sidewalks to walk on, no one around during the day. Even though we tried having 24/7 aides come to care for her, if it snowed, they couldn't get there. And she felt afraid that they would break something, so she wouldn't let them do anything!

Sometimes our parents need a village to care for them, and we're just not enough.

@Barbbrooklyn

I hear what you're saying. I said that I didn't want the job after she started her abusive behavior. I don't mind taking care of her. I don't work so I have all the time. Its like having a baby again. But she's so abusive and angry all the time and that's a drain. I read a lot of posts on this website and its given me lots of insight and help already just knowing what other people are going through. I didn't know it was common for elderly to blow up and scream. I just thought that's how she is. Or maybe being elderly gives her the excuse to now and its acceptable? I don't accept it when she does it though. I usually walk away from her and let her scream. She won't get up out of the bed so its like putting a baby on a time out. I'm still young yet and have an awesome family so I have a lot to be happy for. I can take her misery most of the time. We actually had a talk today after the doctor's apt. I told her she needs to relax and stop trying to control every one and just let everyone do what they have to do. I got a death look, but no response. :-)

When you say village, its funny because both times recently when she was hospitalized the first time they gave her ativan and the second time they gave her ativan and then a little later they also gave her benadryl. And I laughed at the nurse and said I know why. They did it because she was screaming at them to turn down the machines and turn off the lights and take off the blood pressure cuff she can't take it it's going to pop her arm lol. I took her for medical care and she acts like she's royalty and can command people around. I warned her if she kept screaming at them and using profanity they won't stand for that they will commit her on the spot so she shut up.

Cat, a little off the subject, but you mentioned taking your daughter's horse to your new place.... Please get another horse, a pony, donkey, or something for a companion for it. Horses often get very depressed and anxious when they're alone, especially alone at night. Our gelding lasts about 4 days/nights before his head is almost dragging the ground from staying up all night doing lookout on his own. When our donkey died suddenly in November, we had to scramble around and borrow a horse for our horse. Just say'in....

@mally1

Yep, roger that. It's already in the works. We've seen some houses two hours outside NYC with enough land for lots of them.

Catmomma, as I’ve read through your posts and those of others, I see a common thread here. You seem to offer a rebuttal to what everyone is telling you (including me). Were you asking for advice or validation? Do you want us to tell you we approve of what you’re doing? Your intentions are very noble. A lot of people (me included) could never do what you are doing. Your daughters are your flesh and blood and have your values. They see what you are going through and are not going to abandon you or complain to you because they love you. If you are determined to remain in this situation, so be it. I admire your determination.

Catmomma, you sound like so many abuse victims who have fallen in love with their abuser. It is called the Stockholm effect. It is a condition that causes hostages to develop a psychological alliance with their captors as a survival strategy during captivity. No wonder you don't really hear what your therapist is saying about leaving your mother. Plus, you have effectively taught your daughters to abide by the same psychological alliance. It is your choice to remain a captive and an abuse victim, but I sure would not.

Catmomma - I have to agree with the above two posters. It seems that you aren't ready to consider changing your circumstances, and you're offering up rationales for keeping it as it is. I think it's okay to say that you're just not prepared to disturb the universe to the extent that seeking a new life unencumbered by your mother's care would require. But keep in mind what everyone has said here. You're not obligated to do this. There are alternatives. There are also many gradations between taking total responsibility and taking no responsibility. You have the right to consider any or all of those.

I suspect that maybe you are still seeking something from your mother - some validation, appreciation or approval that you have never gotten and that you know you never will get if you fail to live up to her expectations as a caregiver. It may be hard to accept the reality that with a parent like your mother, you will never get that no matter what you do. You've made unbelievable sacrifices for her, yet instead of being overwhelmingly grateful for that, she's complaining about your choice to have a boyfriend. Again I suggest that if at all possible, you go back to therapy to work on your need to please your mother and sacrifice for her at your own expense. It would be much better for you and all your loved ones if you succeed in working this out in your own mind while your mother is still alive.

@Ahmijoy

I'm sorry I didn't mean to offend you when you say I have a rebuttal. I suppose I thought this was like an online discussion and not one sided, me listening? After I thanked everyone for their suggestions another poster above asked me to keep the discussion going. We all learn from eachother?
You may all be right and I do get frustrated sometimes. When she's pleasant its not a chore but when she's nasty it becomes a lot to ask. I didn't mean to make anyone feel any sort of way on here. I honestly just wanted to know if anyone knew what happens to the person who can't do for themselves if nobody is there to help and I got questions about the situation so I answered them.

Catmomma - I don't think you've offended anyone here. I think what many of us are seeing is that you are acting against your own best interests, and we're trying to help you see the situation from that perspective. Many of us have experienced unreasonable demands from our elderly parents and have had to work through our own reluctance to set boundaries and our fear of disappointing or angering our parents. So we try to give others a hand up when we see them in a similar situation. Everyone here is only trying to help you. We know how difficult it can be.

Catmomma, Carla is right. I am in no way offended and I don’t believe anyone else is either, or should you be. But we aren’t exactly telling you what you want to hear. What happens to an elder when there’s no one to take care of them? If someone reports them to Adult Protective Services they become a ward of the state. They are evaluated and placed in the proper facility, either a psychiatric institution or a skilled nursing facility. Their ill-humors and attempts to “run the show” are pretty much disregarded because they’re just a part of the whole now and they are in a group of people who pretty much act the same way. Any funds they have go towards their care.

If you truly want to continue having your life lived for you with no hope of a “new life” in the foreseeable future, you of course can continue along the path you have chosen. No one will openly judge you. Some will praise and admire you for your dedication. I feel for your daughters, however. Now, if they find partners they wish to spend their lives with, will they feel obligated to spend their lives with Grandma and Mom according to the example you have set and bring their partners into this “fold”? Is this what you want for them? You may say they’d be free to leave, but would they? They may feel they need to follow Mom’s example.

I can’t speak to the others who have posted here, but I know if I had the means and I were in your situation, I’d be looking at Assisted Living at the least and maybe even Memory Care. It would be my choice of place and I would not be abandoning my mom. If Mom rants and raves about it, well, I’d look at my kids and new man and decide I deserve a new life and a happy one as well and it was time to leave the stress behind. But I am not you and you are not me. If you are not “on board” with the idea of independence from this situation, nothing we say is going to make much difference in what you decide to do.

I'm seeing a red flag here. Not only does Mama want to run the OP's life by fussing about who she sees, how long, and where, but the OP's special friend keeps the OP on the phone even while he's at work. Both seem to me to have controlling behaviors towards the OP. The daughters are being trained to do what their mama does by watching her.

Yes, I believe you’re right, Surprise. The OP’s original post is moot. I believe she asked what would happen if there’s no one to care for her LO, but she has no intention of striking out on her own. I also believe that should she, herself ever need care, her daughters will, because of the example she has set for them, devote themselves to her care and put their own lives on hold. I believe she was truly asking for validation but did not really find it here. My heart hurts for her, but this is the life she has chosen for herself and her girls.

I hate to say this but it sounds like you are making a lot of decisions basing on new boyfriend or husband and that is dangerous because i can almost guarantee that stress of caring for your mom will weigh heavily on this relationship in a very short period of time and hope you are prepared to go solo if the stress is,too much for relationship. .easy to say i will be there for you before it gets really bad but be prepared to be strong on your own uf necessary and fact that she recently gifted money will royally cause issues with medicaid eligibility..the fact she demanded opioid and threatened suicide should have been huge red flag of things to come....remember this never gets easier

Also you say your bf is financial well off..i truly hope you are not relying on that and don't believe your brother who took the money from your mom to help pay for her care during medicaid penalty period. .sorry to be harsh but you are in for huge shock in short period of time if you continue on this road..another issue is dealing with APS possibly in future if she lives with you because judging from her behavior that is almost a guarantee 

Cannot imagine the new man putting up with this for long and agree with cmagnum about Stockholm syndrome. Granny sounds awful and I would extricate myself.

So my question - if you are living with an elderly bedridden relative, acting as caregiver and you move out (as any sane person who is being treated that way would do), can you be charged with abandonment or elder abuse?

In answer to Xenajada - Yes you can be charged with elder abandonment, at least in some states. If the person dies from lack of care you could face criminal charges. But it depends on the level of impairment of the elder. It sounds like Catmomma's mother is well enough to pick up the phone and call an agency or call other family members to ask for help, and it sounds like she has money to pay for it. Personally I would not advise removing oneself from such a situation without at least attempting to put alternate care arrangements in place.

Catmomma, you are going to find the majority of posters will recommend you put LO in skilled care and "reclaim" your life. In many/most cases they are probably right, but even when you ask for help keeping someone at home because that is the choice you have made, many postings will only be about convincing you to end home care. I don't think those posting are meant to be judgmental, but because those posters really feel that's what would be best for you and your family.

As I understood your posts, you are considering putting mom and dad in a modular home on the same property where you, your daughters, and your partner would be living in a separate house. I think having separate and larger living space that doesn't need consistent repair is a good idea, although I share other posters concerns about placing that home on someone else's property. Would your dad consider moving into that space when he is discharged even if mom wouldn't yet? Does dad have the financial resources to purchase the modular home on he's own?

Mom is going to fight moving for various reasons, including loosing control. She likes the power of being able to say "in my house". You could probably take the animals with when you move even if your mom purchased them because (1) she's not going to want to complain to authorities and risk them taking actions she cannot control and (2) mom cannot take care of the animals. Your talk with mom needs to be that you are moving (no question of if) and the only thing that needs discussion is whether mom is coming with you to a nice new place or whether she prefers to be alone in the old one.

If possible, consider setting up the modular, moving dad into it, moving yourself (with most animals), and telling mom you will move her into the modular when she's ready to go. Seems like you are close enough to check on her daily, take her some prepared food, care for an animal you leave with her, etc. Take her to visit your dad in the modular and make sure your time with her in the old house is very limited. Tell mom she needs to move to the modular where you can better help her before APS steps in and takes control.

Make your plan that good for everyone and stick to it! Don't feel guilty for giving mom what she needs and not what she wants. God bless you.

Your caregiver situation is going to AGE YOU very quickly!
Have the talk, TODAY!
Do not ask her what she wants.
Tell her what you are going to do for yourself.
Tell her she has some hard choices to make (hiring help or AL)
Do NOT move your parents in with you and your partner.
That will ruin your new relationship quickly.

Join the club..it’s a familiar problem. Try to hire private help just to get them showered or sponge bath if parent can’t stand or walk. & Aide can help them dress & with eating. My mother can’t stand or walk & has dementia so it’s a major challenge. She was in nursing home for 10 months & I discharged her & took her Home. Turned Home into makeshift nursing home. She is combative at times so then it’s a major challenge. But she’s 91 now so I figure it can’t go on forever...& Dementia/Alzheimer’s gets worse as I am witnessing. If I had to do over, maybe leave her in nursing home but that would leave her broke..Medicaid wasn’t available since it wouldn’t kick in for a long time. I do everything including financial & health related...filling her scripts, paying bills, prepare her taxes, take her to Drs ...& there’s Drs that do Home visits too! To make long story longer, my sibling, brother older than me & has his own business & life. I’m 59yo . I don’t know how old you are but you cannot do it alone. I did it all alone when my mother was able to walk w walker & didn’t have dementia/Alzheimer’s . But now I need help or I’ll have a stroke. Good luck & pray you make best decision for everyone involved.

I was in this situation too, until my mother fell and I said no more! She got put in a nursing home and I have a life back, however, still have a lot of guilt leaving her there. Also have hard time sorting truth from dementia, she says they are mean sometimes,. Hubby and I want to do part time in Florida and am having hard time with leaving her. Have someone that I can pay to check on her once a week.

After 84 year old mom suffered a severe brain injury my 88 year old dad agreed it wAs time for AL for them both. Giving up the house they lived in for 60 years was really hard on them both. However in the past 6 months the staff has diagnosed mom’s pneumonia twice and dad’s Angiosarcoma early enough to get proper treatment. They both agree now had they still been at home they might not be alive today.

Catmomma, I am so glad you wrote in about your situation.
There are alternatives for you and your parents.
I have six siblings and we have tried everything to help our father. We could never have him live with us because after 30 minutes he has sucked all the energy out of a person.
Since he repeatedly refused any outside help, or allowing us to clean, refusing meals on wheels, refusing to make Dr appt. or to reserve the senior transportation, we all decided we had no alternative but to let him fail. So he has been n the hospital 4 times in the past 5 weeks, and in rehab twice in those 5 weeks. All of them would have been preventable if he had agreed to help or assisted living.
Yesterday he was found wandering in a walkway in between the Clinic and the hospital. He took a taxi there to get a procedure done. He did not know what procedure, what doctor, and was very very confused. The ER called my sister to come and take him back to his home. She was at work, by the time she got there, things had changed.
A wonderful social worker sat down with him and just let him talk. She realized he was too confused to make any medical decisions, and he was admitted for a psych eval. This time he cannot leave when he demands it.
Finally we can all relax for at least three days because he is safe, getting taken care of, and hopefully a correct placement can be determined.
So suggestions for alternatives for you Catmomma.
First, you have to let them fail by telling them what you will do, moving out, calling the adult protective services, and the animal control.
There are so many alternatives, but none if your mother is refusing them. She only has one choice right now in her mind, and that is you and your daughters. Take that choice away and she has many choices: in home care, housekeepers, therapy, assisted living, group home living, a nursing home.
None of them are perfect, maybe none are even desirable, but those are her choices.
It took us siblings 5-15 years to realize we had taken all alternative off the table for our Dad by giving in to his demands.
One more thing to think about: If your child, brother,sister, friend did this, would you really tolerate it? I know you said your Mother was scared and old and disabled. So is my Dad. If we let him fail, he will be forced to see he has other choices. We all have to face that if we live a very long time and become disabled, we have to change how we live.
Would you ask your daughters to do all this? Of course not, you love them and want them to have a life.
This is a very difficult time for you, I know it is scary, you think, “but, what if I .......”  Just think instead, “What if I let go and call for help?” 
It is not your fault your Mother is old and demanding. It is not your fault their house is falling apart. It is wonderful how strong, loving, and competent you are. I think you can be strong to take the next step in this process by letting your parents decide what alternatives they have without you living with them. 
I am breathing a big sigh of relief that my Dad is not running amuck. I hope you can feel that soon. 
Hugs, we know what you are going through. Sorry this was so long. 

In AZ if there is no one who can, and an elder cannot care for themselves, there is a process to petition the court to appoint an adult guardianship (supervision/care) and/or conservatorship (finances). Perhaps there is something similar where you are. Bless you for all you have tried to do.

Lots of valuable insight and support here. Perhaps take pen and paper (really) and list all the 'pros' that speak to you. The process of writing is different from hearing another or reading.
1. Re house $: is your mother 'still' legally competent and/or can you or someone become the POA and manage her money so the rest of it isn't lost.
2. The time is NOW to be-come your own person. To have a supportive partner in your life - for YOU - is gold. You have to decide what you want in your life and the quality of that life. Don't lose a good man - which you'll regret for perhaps the rest of YOUR life.
3. Your daughters can and SHOULD set boundaries with your mother. Sounds like your mother desperately needs 'boundary setting' - "this is not acceptable" and tell her the consequences (you will leave for 5-30 minutes; give her time outs, whatever you do. Yes, she is old and perhaps cognitive functioning is compromised. I can tell you though that even so, setting boundaries is critically important if you want (1) to stop a pattern of behavior and (2) maintain your own sanity/quality of life.
4. Really take in suggestions here. Perhaps do this writing with your partner. Write down suggestions and responses - and possible ways to proceed.
Gena

Catmomma,
You said you are aware your mother is a narcissist. I found out a year ago what that means by reading multiple books about daughters of narcissistic mothers. You sound like your personality is just as strong as your mother's in that you think you can outlast her.... any maybe you can.
But, I HAVE moved my 92-yr-old narcissistic mother in with me, and she is nowhere near the level of care your mom is, and it has been a long long road..... I truly enjoyed being single (I work full-time out of home) and during my off-time did my own things. With my mother here, it is frequent confrontations.... her way or the highway. I am more like my dad was (deceased) and will just walk away... in this instance go to my room and shut and lock the door and put my headphones on and listen to music or watch a movie. I truly wish my mother would go to ALF... she wants to return to her home which is almost 3 hours away, but is unable to care for herself in the sense of calling a cab to go to the grocery store or to the doctor's office, she would want to drive her car. But with occasional positional dizzy spells and poor eyesight, I will make sure she does not drive again to not only prevent her injuring herself but another person or persons. And in the meantime, she won't make a decision to sell her house or her car, so they are sitting.
I wish she would at least do that, and then maybe I could get a different house with a separate "mother-in-law suite" for my mother so we could have more space and not in one another's face, sharing the same bathroom, etc. But no, along with her narcissistic personality, she is selfish. And she constantly talks about her things in her house, and what she needs to do back there. And I remind her, that IF she decides to go back there, then she HAS to have hired help come in for some companionship and homemaking tasks, and that I am NOT traveling back and forth to visit. I am older and finding myself not wanting to be on the interstates/highways like I have done in the past. So for the present, we are in a holding pattern.
My advice to you, along with all the other posters, REALLY THINK. HARD before taking your mom with you to a new home. She is a LOT of care physically and emotionally, and it will take a toll on all of your family..... and just exactly like one other poster mentioned.... your daughters are learning by example to tolerate such behavior, and they in their lives will wind up being with others of similar natures. Abuse begets abuse... it's cyclical..... YOU have the POWER to stand up and say NO MORE, YOU are going to a facility. And then your daughters will learn to NOT TOLERATE that behavior in the future, as opposed to continue learning to be victims.
After my first husband died ( my best friend, my only boyfriend) after 23 years of marriage, I was briefly married to a "soulmate" within a few months of meeting. I knew nothing about him, but learned much about alcoholism and bi-polar in the next few years. Do you know that I was spiraling down into a hole at super speed, and the ONLY thing that saved me, (because I didn't care about myself!) was listening to my children ( 3 of them) all saying the same thing..... get out.... leave him. You know I really didn't care about myself, maybe left over depression from losing my husband/their dad, BUT, I finally told myself that I would NOT lose my children, so I did get out and divorced. It was hard, but I did it. And 15 years later, it was the best decision of my life!
Learn NOW, you do not need anything more from your mom, no validation, no thinking that she is going to change.... no nothing. And you owe her NOTHING.
When 1 or 2 people give advice, maybe it is good, maybe it is not. BUT WHEN. EVERYONE. SAYS THE SAME THING, that is a major RED FLAG to heed.
Take all of that energy and strength that you've shown in taking care of your mother this long into your daughters and boyfriend's relationship.... maybe even a business in your new location. One of my friend's had to find a way to make a living and she combined her horses with special needs children and does horse therapy...... OR, simply take some time at your new location for yourself.... sort of like a sabbatical to re-think your life....
Just don't move your mother with you......

First, I don't judge anyone for the decision they make. What is best for an incapacitated elderly person depends on the person and the situation. My Dad would not last a month in a nursing home. His brother, the one he was closest to, only lasted three weeks after being put in one. On the other hand, his sister-in-law is doing much better in AL than she did at home. It all just depends on so many things.

That said, I am confused. Here is what I understand (and may have misutnderstood):

1. The OP, along with her two "grown daughters" moved in with her parents there years ago after she left her husband.

2. Right away she met the new boyfriend -- so they have been together somewhere between two and three years?

3. The boyfriend works as a first responder in NYC. He is ten years her junior and pays for OP's phone and spends "all his money" on her grown daughters.

4. It sounds like the two "grown daughters" who are "young adults" do not work or attend college. I could be wrong here, and open to correction.

5. OP is unemployed and "gets money" from her ex-husband, all of which she spends on her grown daughters. Is this court-mandated alimony? If so, how long is OP guaranteed to receive this money? Can the ex go back to court to get out of it once the OP sets up housekeeping with the new boyfriend?

5. It sounds like the mother has a Cluster B personality disorder and has been difficult and conrolling all her life, but This did not bother UP so much until her father went into rehab (during the last six months, I presume?). She is bedridden, at least somewhat by choice.

6. Father and mother are divorced, but remain together in the same small falling-down house as friends and roomates. Combined income is about $4,000/month or $48,000/year. Even if their house is paid for, this will barely pay for utility bills, food, clothing, other necessities, plus food and vet care for the six dogs, five cats, seven birds and a turtle. Mother got $75,000 settlement for s injury, but has gifted some of this to impoverished or ne'er-do-well (?) son in Texas. There may be other assets, but not disclosed.

7. Recently, while the father was in rehab, OP and boyfriend decided to go house-hunting and move in together. No mention that I could find that OP discussed this with father, but could be wrong.

8. OP believes they can somehow afford to buy a four- or five-bedroom house to accommodate six adults with enough acreage to accommodate horses and a separate modular house for her parents (and zoning to allow both horses and another house) within easy commuting distance of NYC. Based on what? The boyfriend's first responder pay? Hello? I

My questions:

1. Unless the boyfriend has come into a handsome inheritance, or some other windfall. how can he possibly expect to buy such a property, and then support the OP and her two daughters and their horses on it on his pay?

2. Is the father really willing to sell his home and invest that money in building a modular house on land owned by his daughter's boyfriend? What a risk that would be!

3. What happens to the OP when the boyfriend wakes up one morning and decides he's tired of supporting the unemployed UP and her two grown daughters, their horses and shopping, putting up with her impossible mother and gimpy father and their vast menagerie, now that he's met a younger woman who can give him children of his own?

Right now, unless there's something we have not been told, or a big something I have misunderstood, this idea of buying this fabulous house that can accommodate six adults plus acreage for horses, their barn, and separate house for parents, close to NYC, and all on a first respondent's pay, sounds like a pipe dream.

Unless there is something else not disclosed, maybe the OP needs to take stock of the financial situation first. What she proposes as an alternative to what she has now may not be possible anyway. I suggest going back to the therapist and having a reality check, with full financial disclosure and seeking sound financial guidance from there.

Without giving a whole story behind this story...get a hold on yourself and a firm one. Your life (what is left) will never be the same if you turn and walk away, no matter how damning the situation. Imagine an old sick woman... sitting watching and wondering if her life has made a real difference in the world and feeling worthless if not. Life is not fair and obviously for all of you in this family to have the same WALK AWAY feelings...something ugly has happened and perhaps unaddressed. FOR WHAT IT IS WORTH, stand up for right and the promise of long life if you honor your parent NO MATTER WHAT. Take one step in the right mental direction and if your heart is not rotten...help will appear out of no where for you to carry on for the person that made it possible for you to write this question! Dr Coppertino

One more thing. You seem to think there will be free nursing care for your mother, if only she would accept it. Maybe that is true. Maybe it's also true that it will be far less hours per week than you imagine. You really need to find out what benefits in this rregard your mother (and. father, too) would actually receive. It may be far less than you think. You need to find this out NOW before making any more decitsions.I

If you need to return to work, a home health aide will run about $25/hr., much more for an RN. Can you/your parents/boyfriend afford that?