What are your thoughts on euthanasia in the medical field assisted suicide?

cmI have listened to all different people but you are right it probably would not be good to get your point of view since you are not even paying attention enough to get what I am saying. Ok never mind

Flowgo, I think it is time that instead of remembering only the last few days of your Mom's life day in and day out, it might be time to remember the life that she did live.

My sig other's late relatives I know very little about because all he can talk about is the last week of their life. I couldn't imagine being on this earth, living decades and decades, getting married having children and grandchildren, successful careers, and only have someone only remember that final week :(

Flowglo, have you considered a malpractice suit?

Babalou Nope your way off and do not know what you are talking about. You are just being a want a be know it all.

She was half drugged to death on several occasions. This was done with drugs that she was not supposed to have.This was a doctors order that the other doctors never followed. These drugs were killers for her with her severe reactions.

I'm not sure how they did not get her to die a long time before she did. She was just a very tough lady.The last overdose she never did regain consciousness from.They got her with that one. The hospital also gave her a fungal skin infection that was never treated at the beginning just at the end.This was even after being diagnosed. A good doctor at another hospital treated her at the end.

Hopefully even you will not have to walk in my shoes.I don't wish this on any of my worst enemies unless it was the bad staff, then I could care less what happens to them. As a matter a fact, I'm sorry that they did not take all the drugs that they gave my mom so they could have died instead of her. Im fine with them euthanizing themselves. Had she not gone to these hospitals she would have still been here today. Maybe even if she would have stayed at the that last hospital.

MaggieMarshall Its funny cause I never did mention anything about a conspiracy.I just said my facts. Some of you all are mentioning conspiracy.That actually never crossed my mind but maybe it should have, I don't know.

My dad was on hospice when I was a kid.Though he did not want to die from cancer and leave his family, he was taken care of and they helped my mom with him. No one was forcing him to die with any kind of overdose it was all up to him.

My moms was a whole different experience. That was pretty scary how they came in at the end to finish her off even though there was no reason at all for taking her life.

vstefans You're right they did give up on her after they drugged her so severely that they thought it was going to cause permanent damage. She was strong she could have recovered from the drug overdoses, but then again maybe she would not make full recovery from so much sedative overdoses.She may have got brain damage from all of the haldol/adivan coctails that she was not ever supposed to have.They may have not wanted to face up to it.It was also easy to give her antibiotics that would definitely kill her instead of the treatment that the other doctor wanted her to finish at the other hospital. I would also like to find out if they were charging for treatment that they were not providing.

Remember the odd thing is is most of it took place in the hospital first.Hospice came in just to finish her off with the antibiotics that the hospital started.They put it in her neck which killed her quickly.I don't know why I would have thought that they were going to treat her skin fungal infection since it never was treated in the beginning.They just diagnosed it in the beginning but never treated it Hospice just placed the iv in a vein in the neck to make sure she would get that last drop of antibiotics. Hospice and hospital can be real proud of what they did.She should have stayed at the other hospital with the good doctor.That was my deadly mistake.

armyr I'm finding people on here to help me with laws

Flowgo if your mother died by euthanasia, then who ever is involved must be charged with murder. Euthanasia is not legal. You need to imsist that the authorities investihaye the death of yoir mother. Continuous blogging on this site will not get justice for your mother.

Just in case anyone clicked on the you tube video flow jo posted then you need to know this. This was not a real petition at all it was done by an activist to see whether people would sign their rights away if it was put to them in an ingenious way...it wasn't about euthanasia per se it was about people's blind faith in the establishment

This, taken from teaparty/obamacare-supporters-sign-petition-for-mandatory-euthanasia-of-senior-citizens-26896/
explains it

A video clip posted to YouTube by activist Mark Dice shows supporters of Obamacare blindly signing a petition calling for “mandatory euthanasia” under the new health law.

Dice was able to gather several signatures for the fake petition, telling people in San Diego that they were signing to support putting senior citizens “to sleep” in order to save healthcare costs...........

This is merely the latest example of how mind-numbingly slavish many Americans are to signing away their inherent freedoms, so long as the reason for doing so is pitched with the right rhetoric. -

- See more at: teaparty/obamacare-supporters-sign-petition-for-mandatory-euthanasia-of-senior-citizens-26896/#sthash.m2kYRfVW.dpuf

Jeanne you nailed it. Very smart post! I agree with everything you just said.

flowgo, it is not reasonable to expect people to go back and read 4 years of your posts to get details. Why can't you just tell us, simply in this post, How old was your mother? What did the coroner change the cause of death to? It certainly would be easier for you to type 2 sentences than for all of us to hunt through your past posts.

I am terribly sorry for all the stress and confusion surrounding your mother's death. I can understand that it is terribly painful and getting in the way of your own healing. You deserve to go on with your own life. I can't imagine that your mother would want you stuck in this miserable pain. Have you been in counseling? Therapy can't change what happened, but it may be able to help you heal and move forward. You deserve that. I think your mother would want it for you.

My sisters and I were pressured by a hospital palliative care nurse to enroll our mother in Hospice. She even suggested that Mother may die within the week. Mother was discharged to her nursing home and we signed her up for hospice. Turns out that Mother had been delirious in the hospital but was not dying. She was in bad shape and could no longer sit up on her own or walk. She became a 2-person transfer with a lift machine. And she gradually got better! After a few months Hospice discharged her from their services. That was a year ago. She will never walk and her dementia is increasing but she is content. She has a DNR but there was never an issue about reviving her. No one used it as an excuse to not give her good treatment. Based on my experience, I just have an hard time believing in a medical conspiracy to kill patients. Wrong diagnosis? Maybe. Mistake in administering drugs? Possible. But deliberate infliction of death, and not just by one person but the entire medical team? Maybe I'm too trusting or naive but that is really hard for me to accept.

Either you are right, and there was a callous conspiracy to hasten your mother's death, or you are wrong and your pain and grief is preventing you from accepting or believing the facts of your mother's case. In EITHER CASE, I am very sorry for your loss, and I hope that you can heal and get on with your life. Therapy may be more beneficial for you than posting over and over on a caregiver site.

windy witch I don't think that it is our right to play G....d maybe you do. You are ok with this kind of thing happening is basically what you are saying.Oh well its just a life. Who cares anyway.If the wrong person dies oh well.You must be one of the ones that think that peoples lives are disposable.Wow, pretty interesting.You must have not noticed that many nursing clients are drugged out of their minds .How do you think they get many of them to sit in wheel chairs and wear diapers.The kind of drugs that are used are very dangerous to the elders and with the elders who have any kind of dementia its even worse.

What about the disabled, I wonder if they also should be disposed of since their life has no meaning also.They also are to often just taking up space.Their parents and many others may not agree. So you are saying to take away those innocent lives such as elders or disabled or maybe just anyone who is a bother if they are getting to demented or maybe just simply too old.

How about if we just simply make nursing homes into killing homes instead and the hospices can also be for killing the ones who need to be killed.Or we can do what we have always done in some places send an elder to the hospital and let the hospital take care of their death, especially if no one is with them.That is so messed up. EUTHANASIA IS WHAT NEEDS TO BE DISPOSED OF NOT PEOPLE.

Gershun The problem with that is that patients can be drugged into a coma and the family does not know. Then they can tell the staff to go ahead and kill the patient. I think that happens more than anyone knows already but it is done by doctors without family knowing it.What you are saying sounds very dangerous It will be putting the patients that want to live in great danger.

That is why euthanasia needs to stay out of the medical field and away from medical staff.If the patient wants to take their own life let them do it on their own time.Medical staff should be concerned with the ones who want to live not with the ones who want to take their own lives.Patients have taken their lives in the past.I say lets keep it like that. People should not be disposable. The natzees did think of people as disposable. If euthanasia is actually allowed I hate to see what can happen. To elders to disabled and really the doctors could have their choice. It already goes on now without even being legal.I say dispose of euthanasia.

vstefans At first everything was good until the first drugging. After that they probably did want her dead cause she was suffering a lot of side effects from the sedative overdoses.The most problem I would have with the overdoses was when I would just step out for a minute.Then the staff would go for the attack. When I was there and she actually got some time to recover she would do really well.There was no disease that she had. The only thing wrong was the druggings that were killing her and making her very sick.The side effects of these drugs are similar to elder problems or other medical problems.The hospital also gave her that fungal skin infection that got worse because of no treatment. No staff would ever want to blame the druggins because then they would have to face up to their medical abuse which they did not want to deal with. Euthanasia needs prison time cause it is murder. This law needs to be enforced and other laws needs to change so this will not be allowed.

cm I meant to say that her fungal infection that the original hospital gave her cleared up completely for the first time since she had it. It was diagnosed but never treated.

COUNTRY MOUSE YOU MUST HAVE NOT READ WHAT I WROTE.IT IS ONE HOSPITAL STAY, THIS ALL HAPPENED IN ONE PLACE Only One person tried to answer my question. Apparently she did not read my whole question cause she just answered one part. All the facts are here.This situation had nothing to do with the original procedure. If you don't believe me then there is no reason to tell you anything. I will have to write a book one day for the people of this site.It would be a very tragic book about how cruel the medical staff can be. When I say this I am not talking about caregivers or other nurses or doctors I am just talking about the ones who terrorized us only.

cwillie told me that the nurse has to follow doctors orders and cant stop giving the drug herself no matter what. She told me also that my mom was dying that is why nurse was yelling out dnr and adivan sedative at the same time. EVEN THOUGH MOM WAS IN AN ADIVA/HALDOL ACCIDENTAL OVERDOSE AND SHE WAS GETTING THAT SAME DRUG THAT PUT HER INTO THE ACCIDENTAL COMA IN THE FIRST PLACE, FOR SOME UNKNOWN REASON SHE WASSTILL NOT ACTIVELY DYING. I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT CAUSED HER TO SURVIVE ALL OF THIS DEADLY TORMENT. THE NURSE DID STOP THE DRUG UPON MY REQUEST AFTER SHE TOLD ME I COULD SAY NO TO THE DRUG. THIS IS WHAT CWILLI MISSED WHEN SHE ANSWERED MY QUESTION. THE NURSE NOR THE DOCTOR WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO EVER GIVE MY MOM THAT DRUG IN THE FIRST PLACE UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES.(IT WAS IN THE CHART NO ADIVAN AND SENSITIVITY REACTION)THIS NO ADIVAN HAD BEEN ON THE CHART FROM THE BEGINNING. SHE HAD A TERRIBLE REACTION TO IT EVERY TIME. THEY KEPT GIVING IT TO HER AND ALMOST KILLED HER AND MADE HER ILL IN THE PAST ON MORE THAN A FEW DIFFERENT OCCASIONS.THIS TIME MY MOM ENDED UP AT ICU BECAUSE OF THIS ACCIDENTAL OVERDOSE DONE BY THE OTHER HOSPITAL STAFF.INSTEAD OF HER GETTING HELP TO BE ABLE TO RECOVER FROM THIS SEDATIVE OVERDOSE SHE WAS JUST GIVEN MORE DEADLY SEDATIVES EVEN THOUGH SHE WAS NOT EVEN MOVING.

My mom was in very bad shape after all the druggings, not completely actively dying. If the adivan would have continued and I did not get there to stop it in time, then maybe she would have died no matter how strong she was. She was very affected by it and I'm not sure how much damage it caused her.She may have recovered had they ever gave her a chance to.She must have had the luck of the cat and she was using up her 9 lives fast with all of these drug overdoses.

The other part of the hospital staff gave her an accidental overdose originally with this very same drug that she was never supposed to have why? The ICU nurse continued using this drug that she was not supposed to have why??????Why would the hospital staff also use haldol which is even stronger especially for a person who cant even handle adivan????? This nurse was giving her a deadly sedative drug as my mom lay in a coma not even moving, from this very drug, that the nurse nor doctor was never supposed to have been giving her in the first place. Why? Why on earth did they give her so much of this deadly drug or drugs when she was not even supposed to have it all??? The nurse yells out dnr and adivan in the same breath even though she was not actively dying from it Why?????? Was it really doctors orders if so why was he ordering it when she was not supposed to have it in the first place????? Had I not came in on time and stopped the drugging she could have died. Since she was in a coma and not even moving as the nurse was yelling out dnr and adivan, Why did the nurse want more??? If the nurse thought she was dying why would she waste the drug on a person who is not even moving did she want to make sure she would never move ever again?????????What about the doctor???? Where was he ???To bad the staff did not take as much adivan sedative as they gave my mom so they would have died instead of my mom. My mom was so tough she kept taking whatever they dished out to her.

I have a RN nurse friend.who would not go like a sheep and do what ever the doctor said if it was wrong. There was a time when a situation came up and she went and complained about the doctor. The bad procedure that the doctor wanted to do was not done because of my friend s complaint about it.She could have been put in jail for following doctors orders knowing it was wrong.


By the time the good doctor got there she was dying but he was able to rescue her and took her to the floor that he worked on and saved her life. She did have a skin infection and the sores were deep so it had got worse after all of this and she never did have any treatment for this infection in the past even though it had been diagnosed in the hospital why?????.He treated it with iv fungal meds.He never gave her antibiotics either. He stopped the fluids temp cause she was swelling so much from dying. She was not given any sedatives either. She was doing well in just 2 says.Her vitals came back to normal all the sores were gone on her shins for the first time since the other hospital gave her this infection.He said she was on the road to recovery but she did need to continue the fungal meds that was the treatment.She never did come out of the accidental coma given to her by hospital medical staff. She was in it for 2 weeks this last time and may have remained in it for the rest of her life thanks to medical staff.This was the longest time yet for her to be in a sedative drug overdose coma.Everyone should know the symptoms of sedatives.Had I been like the average person, I would have not known that she was overdosed and dying from it. The medical staff could have told me she died because she deteriorated and died of old age I wonder how many other people died like this.That is why I want to ban euthanasia of any kind. I hate it more than ever. She may have always remained in the coma had she lived, but they never gave her a chance to find out.

COUNTRY MOUSE I WELCOME YOUR EXPLANATION FOR THIS SITUATION. I HAVE LISTENED TO ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE MOST DON'T KNOW WHAT TO SAY THAT INCLUDES PEOPLE IN THE MEDICAL FIELD.

This whole topic is rife with controversy. I think one day there will be a board of people who visit patients and decide on an individual basis who is unsalvageable
and where any further treatment will not make a difference. If a patient cannot make decisions anymore, the family should be able to make the decision on behalf of their loved one.

If the patient is in their right mind and able to make decisions regarding their own treatment then they shouldn't need their family's approval.

Personally I object to this idea of comparing what the Nazi's did and someone languishing in a hospital wanting to end their misery. A madman who is trying to wipe out an entire race and people with terminal illnesses and dementia are not comparable.

On the other hand someone who has an illness such as Lou Gehrig's disease where their ability to even swallow will disappear should have the right to have a predated directive as to when and how they will end their life. J M O.

I tried to post a private message earlier, and my text is below a quote from you- if it did not work, there may be a reason; I just tried to repost but it does not work at all now. Part of what I wrote is: "If she really was kept unconscious on drugs against your will and hers, it really was wrong and I am so sorry you had no good way to stop them. It really does sound like they gave up on her making any kind of recovery which is a terrible shame if they were wrong. Similar stories are included in washingtonpost/news/storyline/wp/2014/08/21/as-more-hospices-enroll-patients-who-arent-dying-questions-about-lethal-doses-arise/
I would not just "hope" that this never happens again - I think you will heal better and feel better by taking active steps against euthanasia and abuse of POLST and hospice protocols as you have started to do.

I think that limiting care to things that are not burdensome is OK, and treating intolerable pain even if the side effects are sedation and respiratory depression is OK, but out and out euthanasia on demand is absolutely wrong. I think there should be absolute requirements that every hospice patient has their wishes determined, so that people who do NOT just want to be sedated until they die do not need to be, and that hospice is clear that the goal is NOT always just to get it over with as fast or efficiently as possible. Compassion and individualization of the goals of care is always, always key.

You know CM this puts me in mind of Scott, the guy that had been sleeping on Mom's couch in I think NYC for X # of years and prevented from visiting Mom after she had her stroke. in the end we found he was a hoarder and could not get to Mom because of the junk.

Flowgo, what would be the point of any medic trying to offer you an explanation if you refuse to hear to it? Your conviction that your mother was intentionally done to death by a malicious medical conspiracy EITHER to save themselves work OR for profit (you must surely be able to see that you can't have it both ways) is unshakeable. It must also be very painful, and I'm sorry for that.

Wouldn't you rather feel better? Wouldn't it be better to take the history step by step and let us try to understand what happened?

He got her out of there before they finished her off. I will have to write a book for this site one day.The horror stories continued. Had I kept her with the good doctor even though she was still in a sedative coma she would have been here today had the drug overdose not hurt her too severely.

I was just glad the good doctor rescued her from the dying treatment.

cwillie What you are saying about the nurse yelling out dnr and adivan Was she yelling out dnr cause she thought that my mom was dying as she was continuing to give dangerous amounts of adivan (the very sedative the she had a reaction to) The nurse may have thought that she was doing her a favor to get her to die faster since she already thought that she was dying.Could that be the reason???? I just never seem to get a correct answer.

I did mention to her that I would prefer her not giving my mom adivan(the drug my mom has a reaction to) especially since she was in ICU for a sedative overdose.She DID stop drugging her at that point


The same exact thing was done at the other hospital after she was in there for recovering from complications of a drug overdose.The only difference was is that she was not in ICU cause she was still awake but she was having problems like barely being able to walk and falling off of chairs like any other person who is trying to come off of sedatives overdosing. It is worse with a reaction sensitivity.Usually if this happens the patients are not supposed to be treated by more deadly sedatives to get them in another sedative coma, like what they did to her.

The good doctor told me that everyone had told him that my mom was having stroke like symptoms. Non of the staff know what the side effects are really??????? Arn't they trained about overdoses or are sedative over dosses done for a reason????If so why would they want the person to get stroke like symptoms. ( meaning when the vitals start going all crazy) I guess they could yell out dnr cause they are doing a dying treatment?????? i'm not sure how all that works.Someone should have come up with a good explanation by now. No RN LVN no doctor etc etc has been able to come up with a good explanation for this kind of bizarre behavior. I have asked friends who are in the medical field. They also could not figure it out.

It just is so hard to understand and I cant begin to

It was looking good just before the drugging started. I have no idea why they would drug her, she was a healthy person but haldol and adivan are not pretty. They are killers when used on people with sensitivities especially. To be honest i try not to think about my mom at all it is just easier cause I cant deal with this kind of loss. I lost my dad and grandma and others my dad was difficult cause he passed from cancer. It was still so much easier than this. This is really impossible to deal with even trying to accept what happened to her. I should have been able to do something. I almost feel like how Im I still here and while my mom was taken so in such a horrible way

My thoughts for you are that you believe your mother was murdered and not voluntarily euthanized, that it was done without consent. That she still had the possibility of a good life; that you weren't ready for her to die; and the unusual circumstances surrounding her death had been an assault on her and you, watching powerless to change what was happening in spite of all your efforts has intensified the grief and guilt you are suffering. It would have been almost too much to bear losing your mother to a natural death, but you may have been able to endure that pain, had it not been surrounded by so many irregularities caused or allowed by medical staff. And that has left you with questions, understandable grief, anger, shock, and a sincere hope that this powerlessness doesn't happen to others. Because you are so hurt and angry you feel you must do something to prevent these horrors by changing the laws, fixing the medical profession, or something. All this comes at a time when you are grieving the loss of mom.
At a time when some comfort from others would be welcome.
Is this close to what is happening with you?

How can I make you feel that guilty. I did not wait a year. I started the case but the lawyer / doctor did not want to deal with a euthanasia case. He told me that he knows of others who euthanize but he did not believe in it himself. It was getting close to the cut off when I finally found him.The wrongful death lawyer was interested in taking the case until he also found out that he only had a day cause by the time the other lawyer did not want to finish it, it was only one day away from the statue of limitations. Now the medical staff are doing as they please while my mom is in her grave. Life is not always fair that is so true especially with this kind of thing

Flowgo, keep talking this out. I encourage you to continue to honor your mother's life as you have when you explained she was having a good and interesting life.
I heard you when you said she gardened, hiked in the hills, walked her dogs, and other good things. She obviously had you to love her.

cwillie When the nurse told me I could stop the drugs and I said yes she did stop the drugs just like at the other hospital.Same thing happened.She was in a coma also from the other hospital. She did not die cause she got out of their in time before she was killed by the drugs.They said she was having stroke like symptoms that is how much adivan she was getting. When I told the good doctor about that she was still getting adivan while in the overdose drug coma he took her out of there and saved her.

Flowgo, I hate to continue this painful circular discussion, but I'll try to help you out if I can. If a Doctor prescribed a medicine, lets say every 4 hours, the nurse will HAVE to give that medicine AS PRESCRIBED. It wouldn't matter if she didn't think it was helpful or if your mom was comatose or if you objected to her. Her job is to follow the doctor's orders. She could lose her job, even go to jail for not following orders, especially if something went wrong.
If a nurse told you you could ask to stop the medication, then she was telling you to you to speak to the Doctors, not the nurses, who were after all only doing what they legally and ethically had to do.
If a nurse shouted "DNR", I would assume your mom was actively dying at that point and she was letting everyone know that a DNR was in place. To perform CPR or other lifesaving measures on someone with a DNR would be unethical and illegal.
None of us can speak to what exactly happened that lead up to that point, but it seems your mom went in for surgery, it went badly and her condition deteriorated rapidly and unexpectedly. Think about what happened to Joan Rivers, totally unexpected. Whether it was fate or malpractice that brought on the decline we on this forum can't know, but we are all sorry for the pain you are still suffering from. Have you considered grief counselling?