Hello, My mom is 88, has always been emotionally immature and self-absorbed (no dementia). I've never set many boundaries with her. She doesn't 'get' boundaries. Example- She's always called me and talked and talked(!) about nothing and I've listened. So draining. Over the years, I've asked her to not call so much. I don't even like talking on the phone, am a total introvert. She doesn't stop. She cries when I ask her to stop. I would describe her as on the low end of the narcissistic spectrum. But since January, things have escalated...
In Jan., my stepdad (age 95) and mom got Covid. He died of it. She is ok now, but it affected her heart and kidneys. My brother and I (1 brother, no sisters) have spent SO MUCH TIME dealing with her- doctors, hospital stays, moving her to an independent living facility, doing her finances, groceries, etc., etc. (I live 5 hours from her; my brother, 1 1/2 hrs.) My mom has always been needy and dependent. She expects us to do everything for her now. My brother? Jumps through hoops to do whatever she wants. I help, but I don't jump.
About 6 weeks ago, I reached an 'aha' moment realizing that my mom is a covert narcissist. She has many bad behaviors toward me, but they've gotten WAY worse. (And it's not from grieving.) She bullies me. She compares me to other daughters my age. I've asked her to stop. She doesn't stop. Too, she has always interrupted and talked over me. I've been speaking up for myself the last few weeks. I ask her over and over to stop interrupting me. She's interrupting when I'm asking this! It. Does. Not. Stop.
To everyone else, she's this sweet lady. To me, she's the opposite. I've been calling her out on her bad behaviors lately. She doesn't like it and turns things around and blames me. She yells at me. In July, she went into a RAGE. I hid in her condo bathroom to get away. She hides her bad behavior from others. The rage was when my husband went to do a curbside pick-up. Of course, she stopped right before he got back.
In the past several weeks, I've read 22 books (no kidding!) about emotionally immature, self-absorbed, and narcissistic parents. Wow, did they open my eyes!! They describe my mom to a T. I see patterns now over and over (from decades!). My brother, whom I felt so close to most of my life, is now treating me differently. I'm pretty sure my mom is triangulating. I see my brother is the Golden Child. And I am the Scapegoat. My brother's wife has always treated me passive-aggressively. Now, I feel this united front of the 3 of them against me. My husband totally sees it too. It's distressing and disturbing.
Last night, I lost it with my mom over the phone. She doesn't understand why I don't want to talk to her on the phone and only want to correspond by text or email. I told her I'm treated kinder that way. She doesn't listen though because she's interrupting me! She was yelling at me. And sadly, I was yelling back. I'm so very angry with her. She DENIES all her bad behavior. She denied going into a RAGE in July. Huh?! She denies comparing me to other daughters though she does it over and over. She gaslights. Her answer when I tell her something she said was hurtful? "I never said that!"
I am accomplished in my field, have a master's degree and also play the piano. My mom didn't go to college, has no hobbies, is not musical. (I'm way more like my dad, who passed away 31 years ago. I miss him so much.) On top of everything else, I think she's envious of me too. I have a good marriage, 4 wonderful grown kids, and 4 adorable grandkids. My life is good. Except for the relationship with my mom. It is eating away at me. Too, last night my mom asked 2x why I don't get along with my brother now. I wanted to (though I didn't) scream that she's manipulating our relationship and causing the rift! Everything channels 'through' her, has for many years.
My question- Do I go grey rock? Or should I write my mom a letter/email explaining why I feel so mistreated by her?
But never mail it.
I did this as a part of therapy with my MIL and my therapist had me write the most absolutely over the top letter--and I went into everything..all the things she had taken from me, the pain she had caused my DH, my kids, now my grands...and I kept the letter for a while, but never mailed it.
It was very cathartic. I have since totally divorced her, I do not talk to her, I don't buy her gifts (I made her son look pretty darn thoughtful for 40+ years)! and now I don't even know what she is up to...better yet, I don't care. She is 100% DH's problem, and altho he still tries to 'guilt' me in to spending time with her, it falls on deaf ears.
I have enough to deal with, with my own Narc mom. She has a really biting personality---or she can be a sweet little lamb. This sweet little lamb wrote me a BILL that is in her will--that although I DO get to inherit the same amt of $$ as the other sibs, I FIRST have to pay the estate $1500. My lawyer called that a 'posthumous FU' and said it wasn't legal. But it hurt, badly, b/c I felt like if she really felt I owed her trust money, be upfront about it. I'm very glad I saw this before she died (she's actually still alive) because it was so incredibly hurtful--just when you think the manipulation and hurting would stop when they die--and then something like this happens. Meh. YB, who is POA was told about this and he quietly slipped the illegal 'document' out of the trust.
I often wonder what it would have been like to have a mentally healthy, happy, adjusted mother, instead of the looney I have. I feel like I was parenting my own kids from scratch--b/c I didn't HAVE a good role model.
So-back to the beginning. Don't send a letter. It will only cause more pain.
I agree - write a long letter and don't mail it.
Write a very short letter and do mail it - after all the charge is out / gone in the first letter.
“It’s just not worth the potential rage. I would start slowly backing away. My heart goes out to you. You are important and your own life matters.”
i agree with you!
I would write the letter you want, but don’t give it to her. now start distancing yourself. Stop answering her calls, set a daily or weekly time you will talk to her, then say you have to go and hang up or leave. No excuses, no explaining, it's up to you to take control and stop letting her manipulate her. Keep telling yourself she doesn’t have any power over you. Why keep wasting energy on a person who does not bring joy to your life? If she were to die tomorrow how would you go forward with your life?
* Yes, it is certainly up to the daughter to NOT allow ANYONE to manipulate her. They can't if a person doesn't allow it.
Gena
Her health started to get worse and her neuro functions were diminishing but not dramatically. I ended up moving her in with me for 6 months until she went in to a behavioral until for psych med adjustments. They sent her to rehab and every doctor, nurse and social worker told me she needs to be in a long-term care facility. I should add my brother did absolutely nothing to help out prior to her moving in as well as when she lived with me. Nothing. I flew to Florida on several occasions to help her pack and then drove her to Philly with me because she is u able to fly due to her lung disease.
She now blames me for putting her in, keeping her in, and not letting her leave the nursing home she was transferred to. The truth is it was her psychiatrist who suggested she go in, to which she agreed, and then all the docs and support staff her suggested she needed a higher level of care than I can provide at home. She F-ing hates me now with every fiber in her being, and bad mouths me to anyone who will listen. I’m happy to say that everyone she speaks to knows the truth and knows I did everything I could. She was vicious on the phone with me, told me she was going to kill herself and in the note say it was my fault. One time I called she answered Fuck You(sorry for the language). She called me 70 times over one weekend. After much counsel, including some wonderful and deeply appreciated input from people on this site, I ended up going no-contact and it’s now been 9 months. It was such a difficult decision to make and it has taken me until now to understand and embrace the fact I’m doing the right thing. I told my brother back when this happened that I am done with her and will turn her affairs over to the facility where she lives and if he wanted to step up then feel free but, if not, let me know so I could proceed accordingly. My guilt is subsiding but my mental health was taking a major hit and if I didn’t make the decision to go no-contact I’m afraid I would have spiraled down the rabbit hole. The hardest decision I ever had to make. Of course she denies saying anything or the fact she fell down my steps 3 times and in her room 4 times, one time hitting her head on the wall so hard there was a hole in the wall from impact. She says she’s sorry but then repeats the same behaviors. So the question I asked myself was not why does she keep doing this but instead why do I keep allowing it. I am her POA and still work with the facility on her finances and will bring up toiletries and food each time the social worker emails me a list. But I will not speak with her directly and not sure I ever will again. So difficult but my option became clear. It a bad situation and I understand what you’re going through. I think your answer will become clearer and decision easier to make once you’ve had a chance to read some of the feedback you’ll receive on this wonderful site. Good luck and try to remember our time on earth is limited and it’s up to us who we allow in our lives and the toxicity we’ll tolerate. You must make whatever decision you decide based on WHAT IS BEST FOR YOU. Do not set yourself on fire to keep other people warm. 💪🏼👆🏼🙏🏻
i wish us to be free of narcs.
basically, that would mean to not be surrounded by mean people.
i only see as solutions:
…no contact
…or low contact
…or some superhuman ability not to feel pain, when treated badly by narcs.
hug!!
i wish us well.
Also from his perspective, if he is closer to her by miles, then you can help him out a little by talking to mom on the phone. Not twenty times a day, but I suggest daily. You don't have to answer every call from her, but you should answer at least one of them.
I lean a little more to brother's side of the fence because I'm the one siblings call the golden child. I am also the one who lives with the parent 24/7. I know that each sibling has a cell phone glued to the palm of their hand, yet they can go days without answering a call from parent's phone. If I call, they will answer right away. They see who is calling and make a conscious decision not to answer. Then I spend all day long explaining: No, there is nothing wrong. No they have not been in an accident. No they are not in the hospital and trying not to worry her. THEY JUST DON'T ANSWER THE PHONE!!! One plays games that her phone never rang all day, lost the phone in the house, forgot to charge the battery, left it in the car. It's all BS.
Have a little empathy for those who live the closest and may be much more stressed out with 24/7 requests for help or phone calls. The Golden Child role is never what others think it is. We are stressed to the max and appreciate a little relief wherever and whenever we can get it. What you are calling gold may be nothing more than costume jewelry - the coating wears thin.
There is also the issue of self-preservation for elders. Manipulation, tears, conflict between family members created as a means to keep their situation running exactly as it is. Stay in the home, but requiring more help to do so. Butter up the ones who will come when you call while working on the others to come round. Empathy vanishes, if it was ever there, because the circle of focus becomes a lot smaller around the elder - whatever it takes to maintain ME.
We could put you in a round room and tell you there is a nickel in the corner.
Different adults handle things in different ways.
I can say that I tried previously writing her a letter ...I poured my heart and all of my emotions into the letter - it was somewhat cathartic for me, but when I gave it to her to read, she had an annoyed look on her face and called me some vile names...and ripped it up in front of me. I don't regret writing it or giving it to her - but it meant nothing to her in the end. Perhaps if you do write this letter, it may help you in pulling back from her as she'll understand why - so maybe it will serve a purpose...but it's difficult to know.
I'm still trying to get back to myself after my mother's physical and emotional damage...it's taken a lot from me....and, at a time when things were going well in my life.
Anyway, I wish you all the very best...and continued strength and peace.
just awful how she treated you.
unfortunately, i also have a narc in my life.
courage to us.
i wish us to be happy, super successful.
don’t let them “win”.
they want to destroy us (often, it’s mother against daughter).
Write the letter to her- but do it for YOU! (since realistically, that is the only one who will care about the words written, YOU). Forgive me if I sound harsh, that is not my intention; I just want to emphasize that you will not convince her of any wrongdoing, she will not change, and I hate to see another daughter, so hopeful amid the insanity, go through the hurt and disappointment that only a mother can bestow upon them. Do not continue to hope that there must be something you can do to make her understand or change the way she treats you; doing so will lead to your own destruction. Instead, hope for acceptance- your acceptance of the way she is and will always be. Knowing and accepting are very different things and I have found that until I accept something, I cannot get over it or handle it in a non-self destructive way. You are at the best place you can be here on agingcare.com; you will find the best people who will unconditionally give you their opinions, thoughts and care. The things our mothers are/were totally oblivious to.
Writing can be very therapeutic. It was for me. I wish you the best.
susan xoxoxo
She is a narcissist and will twist everything around so she is the victim while you are the bad one.
Just do it and walk away with no contact until she is prepared to repent ( repent means you admit what you did, apologize for it, ask for forgiveness and make amends where appropriate ). Speaking from experience that will be the last contact you have with her.
It all sounds great but the mother will never as you say "repent" or apologize, or try to make any amends. If by some chance she actually does, it would be a miracle.
The only time a narcissistic and abusive elder will ever make some effort at contrition is if they need or want something and there's no one else to get it for them. None of them are actually sincere and will resume the abusive behavior and manipulation until the next time they want or need.
As others have noted: if she will not stop when you ask her to, then the only option is to remove yourself from the situations that you want to stop. Tell her you'll call her at a specific time but that you will not pick up at other times. Only go visit her when others are present. If she's trying to turn others against you, then talk to them frankly about the situation, (you don't need to convince them, just inform them - they then have another side other than hers, and can do what they want with that information) and tell them what you're doing as a result (changing contact methods, reducing contact, etc.) so that information comes through YOU rather than her. If you write her a letter, then send them a copy, too, again, so they know what was said and what your boundaries are.
That's all you can do. You can't control her, and you can't control your brother. You can only control what you do and what you are present for, and removing yourself from an abusive situation is your right. Good luck.
why did she do this?
i think because of jealousy. i don’t think she would have told the truth as to why she did it.
why did she do it?
because some people (often a mother) feel good/great kicking others (normally the daughter) down.
1 woman against another woman.
hug!!
Mare sure you do not holler at her and remain calm.
Let her know what ya'll both need to do to be able to continue you seeing her and if she doesn't think it can happen or doesn't want to change then let her know whatever you decide like you're only going to text or e mail her or you're not going to have phone conversations with her and only going to visit once a month or whatever, just let her know what you feel you can do.
Maybe your brother will understand once mom starts calling him too much.
For the difficult phone conversations:
1 - let it go to voicemail
2 - answer and say that you can't talk right now
For difficult in person conversations/rants:
1 - Leave the room
2 - Go to the bathroom
3 - Tell her that it is time to end the visit for that day
4 - Try to change to another topic when you see the escalation starting
For your brother and his family:
1 - Build the relationships around everything that doesn't involve your mom
2 - Limit discussions about "touchy subjects"
3 - Make an appointment with your SIL to talk things over
These are just examples of tactics you can take. You can do this!
i agree! hug!!
I think you should tell your mother you can come once a month with her items and that is it. She can balk but she is mistreating you and you don't need that in your life. Does she have any interest in your grandchildren?
Let your brother decide what he wants to do since he is adding more difficulty to the situation. This can drag on if you let it. Hope you arrive at a solution and can stick with it.
You can send it just don't expect her to respect the boundaries you establish.
Frankly from what you described I am surprised you answer the phone when she calls and not let it go to voicemail. I am surprised that you don't hang up the phone when she goes on and on. A simple "mom, I gotta go" then a hang up. no explanation needed, just hang up.
Bottom line...you do what you need to do for yourself. And for your family.