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I noticed your question is a little old but I need to put in my input since I am my dad's voice. My answer to you is absolutely! The only thing is that I found out is that the APS isn't the one to turn to. Your first call should be to your state bar association. What you need to do especially if you happen to be on limited income is to tell your state bar association that you have a possible elder abuse situation but that you're on limited income but this may turn out to be a winnable case. Ask for the names of any lawyers who would be well within your area and they'll give you the names of anyone they happen to have available. What you need to do is gather all hard evidence for that lawyer by time they get a hold of you including your relative's death certificate. If you made any contact with anyone regarding any money and other valuables and assets, you need to save those letters and any other appropriate correspondence regarding the estate.
In my dad's case, there was no will. He also had Alzheimer's. He also happened to be a retired Ford motors worker with a life insurance policy through an insurance company called UniCARE. He had a POA but no guardian. That POA ended up changing the life insurance beneficiary to herself from next of kin, definitely illegal in Ohio. Now to this day as of 2018, there is still a pending lawsuit against not only the fraudster who was proven to be A thief but also UniCARE who gave my money to the fraudster despite my best efforts to sound the alarm only to have my money still given away to the fraudster. Now, UniCARE is also in very hot water because there is now evidence of complete correspondence including correspondence with the Ohio department of insurance ODI as well as the Michigan department of insurance MDOA. UniCARE knows I'm a survivor as I have proven this and they also know I'm the only blood relative my dad left behind. They have proof of this through my birth certificate but sadly they were keeping me in the dark about what was really going on. What the ODI ended up having to get from them is what was going on about the money I know I'm legally entitled to. All they could do is get answers and tell me what was believed to be my dad changing his life insurance beneficiary three weeks before he died. It turns out dad wasn't the one who did it, the POA did it. Now they're both in trouble, both the POA who changed the life insurance beneficiary, causing UniCARE to pay her. They paid out in February 2017. The fraudster who got my dad's house sold it for well below market value and most likely coerced my dad into signing a TOD to sign his home over to her, all without my knowledge. What made things worse is I never got to say goodbye to my dad or participate in the funeral arrangements, which were also done without my knowledge. My dad was my last living relative, and I never got a chance to say goodbye. At very least I could've had closure but I think maybe the fraudster may have been trying to hide other signs of abuse, which may be why I was never contacted until after everything was done and over. Anyway, now the fraudster is in trouble for causing this whole mess and I look to collect big time. Let my story be a story of hope that yes, you can report elder financial abuse after someone dies. Remember, don't contact the APS, contact a lawyer through your State bar association. Open an estate for that person if you happen to be next of kin, abide by your state laws on this one. You're best off to let a lawyer handle this so there are no mistakes on your part and you can't get sued. Lawyers usually know how to handle legal matters better than the average person without proper training
The most vital thing to tackling elder financial abuse and recovering as much as possible is acting very quickly and finding the right people to help you. For best results though, you definitely need to get a lawyer and open an estate for that person. Remember though, any unpaid debts will need to be paid first out of any winnings if elder financial abuse is proven and money is granted the fiduciary. What I found out in handling my first case is the estate is the plaintive if there's a lawsuit involved. If your estate is open and you need more time, your lawyer will definitely need to file for an extension so the estate doesn't get closed since the estate would be the plaintiff in the case. Sometime in the end of 2017 around the major holidays, the fraudster who took advantage of my dad was served papers and the life insurance company who gave my money to the fraudster was also sent some papers regarding a lawsuit. In my dad's case, elder financial fraud was actually proven when my lawyer found the papers proving the POA admittedly changed the life insurance beneficiary from next of kin to herself, meaning she tampered with legal papers she had no right touching. One word of warning to anyone who would dare mess with the elderly or even the disabled for that matter is that it's been said there are very long prison sentences for people who abuse and take advantage of our elders and the disabled. If you knew anyone who spent any time locked up and the way of life in the big house, it would discourage you from committing a crime. Messing with elders and the disabled can get you in very hot water and you can get locked up for a very long time and lose everything you wrongfully took from someone you were supposed to be helping when it turned out you were only helping yourself to what you could get from them. Whatever you still when you get locked up will eventually be taken from you anyway, so you're better off to do the right thing and return what you stole to the rightful owners or the rightful heirs of those the deceased left behind and intended to have what you stole. Don't forget, when people steal from our elders, they also steal from their heirs
Remember, if something seems off, it probably is. If something just doesn't sound right it's probably not. So I'm people may not even pick up on this because they don't always have the experience you do. When everyone else around you is saying pretty much the same thing about somethings just not right, there are probably right. Listen to others who say something just doesn't sound right or somethings a little off because chances are they're probably right. This was the case in my own situation because something just didn't seem right about dad's life insurance beneficiary suddenly being changed only three weeks before his death and it turns out I was definitely right. I had a thread on here about this and it started out as a question and became a discussion. At some point of keeping the thread open there were some haters who came on here and at some point the admins had to just delete the thread. Well, it turns out my case was proven and I was right all along. Ignore the haters and plow forward and use your story to help others going through the same situation as you. We have a perfect opportunity to seek out others going through our type of situation and help them based on our own experience. Don't be discouraged. Seek out a good strong support network, especially surround yourself with people who have been where you are now. Those are the people who are going to be able to help guide you through the process if this is your first case. Dealing with your first case can be scary and worrisome especially if you don't hear back from your lawyer too much because they're always busy with a very big caseload and are in and out of court or on the road or doing some other legwork. They usually work in the background but don't be discouraged if you don't hear much from them, things are getting done even if you don't know what's going on at the time. I know because my own case with the estate part is near completion but we still have another part that needs addressed regarding the fraudster and rightful compensation of lost funds the fraudster was never entitled to. I understand right where you are, I really do but don't be discouraged if you feel alone or even nervous at times
Absolutely! I had to deal with the discovery of elder fraud after my dad with Alzheimer's died. It turns out my dad was not the one who changed the life insurance beneficiary, but the POA changed it from next of kin to herself. This is illegal in Ohio. What you do is call your state bar association especially if you don't have a whole lot of money and tell them the situation including your financial situation. Explain that you don't have but a little bit of money if at all and you really need a lawyer. If you're on SSI only, you can get a lawyer who works pro bono until you win and then your lawyer gets a portion of your winnings. When all fees are paid from your winnings then you get the rest. Right now I'm dealing with the end of an estate case where there was fraud involved but a lawyer will have to help you. That way, you can't get sued for an accidental mistake if the lawyer handle it for you. The lawyer is there to protect you and your interest, especially if your family was stolen from.
What I had to do is open an estate for my dad after getting the lawyer.
I was appointed fiduciary
Assets were gathered and appraised
Inventory was filed
Estate debts are paid
Filing any necessary taxes is part of the process
Distribution of remaining assets to beneficiaries
Closing the estate and terminating fiduciary duties
Now how a lawsuit works with an estate is a mystery to me because I'm dealing with the same kind of thing you are, discovered elder fraud after the elder died. I'm at a certain point where I have questions right now on what's going on with the lawsuit situation since we can't find the fraudster but the insurance company is also responsible so I don't know what's up there and how this will pan out in this unusual situation. I'm so glad to know I'm not alone as I feel like the only one dealing with this type of unusual situation especially with it being my first case
One thing you may want to do especially if you live in Ohio is call your state attorney general. They have a special department for individuals who are dealing with this type of case. There's a special department for handling situations where individuals defraud elders but they also have one for when companies defraud elders. Since you're dealing with the same similar thing I'm dealing with, definitely check with your state Attorney General and ask them for the department that deals with situations where individuals defraud elders. This is how I found out about it. I called the attorney general and told them the situation since they handle elder fraud specifically. I asked them if they were able to help in my type of situation and they forwarded me to the department that deals with this type of situation we're both dealing with. There's a department that deals with individuals who defraud elders. At least the Attorney General will know but I don't know what they can do about it since I don't really know how the Attorney General handles these matters. If you obtain a lawyer to help you with this, another good thing to do is to see about having law enforcement contacted in the area where the fraud happened, especially if the fraudster skipped to another area and you know where they went. If you know their workplace, call the head department of that particular place and worn headquarters. The fraudster I found out about happened to work at a specific place and I called headquarters to warn them about the fraudster and what was done. If you can contact headquarters of that person's work place, it's all the better especially if you know there's a high likelihood to the fraudster handles cash. That's because if you have a fraudster working at a local store, it hurts us all at some point.
* Let me tell you, if the fraudster is convicted of fraud, they're probably also guilty of coercing your elder into signing over other property. Don't let it fool you that the signature from your elder is actually their's, they were most likely coerced by the fraudster. Such a thing would have to be the house if your elder owned a home or other assets like a car or business. It's all too common for a much younger person to come along and catch the elder alone and start working on them and coercing them into signing over whatever it is the vulture is after. Vultures never give up until they get what they want and I'll explain why. Vultures take advantage of the declining mental state of aging individuals, especially if those elders happened to be developing dementia or Alzheimer's. If this was the case in your particular case then you definitely have a leg to stand on and the law is definitely on your side. In my case since I was the only surviving relative, the law was definitely on my side and the more things you have in your favor, the better, especially if you're an abuse survivor who was rendered disabled from the abuse on top of what we're dealing with. Such was the case with me and what's even more in my favor is I'm dealing with a hardship that's been going on for quite a long time.
So here's my situation:
My dad died intestate and he had Alzheimer's He also had a house and a life insurance policy The fraudster ended up with everything In Ohio, POA is not allowed to use their powers to give themselves anything. This is exactly what happened with the life insurance policy through ford motor paid out by UniCARE. UniCARE didn't know at the time what really happened. At some point I warned uniCARE something was off and they ignored every warning as did the department of insurance Now I'm dealing with the aftermath of elder fraud because the fraudster was found and fraud was proven I'm in the end stage of an estate situation pending finding out how the lawsuit will fit into all of this and I must find out before he estate closes if this will continue with the lawsuit or what will happen
What the fraudster did has caused further undue hardship to me as the only survivor and living on SSI with being disabled is not easy, especially when you can't get financed for a car because you have enough income
This is basically the jam in and hopefully it'll be over soon and very soon. All I can do is wait it out and keep calling my lawyer regularly to try to find out what's going on. I hope you come to a happy resolution in your situation because we're dealing with very similar situations
Some people may actually say to forget it and move on as what was mentioned here. However, some situations require action if it's a serious enough hardship on the elder and their survivors. When something like we're dealing with causes such a hardship that it leaves you pretty much stuck at home with no outside help with money or transportation, then you need to act especially when it's a situation where you know that money will definitely improve your quality of life. God never meant for anyone to have to live like prisoners due to lack of necessity. When you lack necessity, that's when it's absolutely necessary to take action because the fraudsters actions are negatively affecting others. Fraudsters don't care about anyone but themselves so they don't care about anyone else's needs. If not stopped, fraudsters will continue defrauding others. If by chance you go after the fraudster with the help of your lawyer, and the fraudster can't be found chances are the fraudster probably moved on to their new supply after targeting a new victim
Absolutely! If it weren't for this option, wrongdoers would go unpunished because they would be able to get away with it. Someone here mentioned they don't think any agency would act wants the person dies. To that person I say, you don't know that! That goes to show you that you don't know what you're talking about if you don't know the ropes, it's time to do your homework and stop talking nonsense because recovery is possible, I'm going through it myself and I know what I'm talking about from my own findings and experience. Recovery will depend on each case since each case varies. It really is possible to recover even after a person has died. Recovery is possible if the fraud can be proven, there's money to recover any of that money's gone, go for the real property and sell it for the money owed to the estate. By all means, please research this topic because there are multiple pages speaking on POA and how people miss use it and fraudulently gain from the elder. More times than not, someone who has POA or other power over the person ends up helping themselves. This is only one sign they look for and how close to death changes in beneficiaries wills and beneficiaries are made, especially if the person wasn't competent and happened to be just about to die. One specific situation can be an Alzheimer's patient who happens to be in the very last stages of their life during the adult failure to thrive stage, this is only one example of what the law looks for. Believe me, they know what to look for, they know certain signs.
What you really need to know right now is elder abuse laws exist for a reason, to help stop elder abuse and punish wrongdoers. Sadly though, elder abuse often goes unreported for various reasons. In the case of financial abuse it not only causes financial hardship to the elder, but also to the elders rightful heir's who may actually already be in financial hardship themselves. Unpunished elder financial abuse would allow undue hardship to continue and crimes to continue causing those hardships. By all means, report, report, report those crimes!
Now, if you live in Ohio, you can follow my thread under discussions. This was actually started as a question in the very start before I was able to find a lawyer to take my case. As things finally started unfolding, new developments came into place.
The first thing you want to do if there was a life insurance policy is collaborate with the life insurance policy and give them your personal info
Contact the courthouse where death certificates are kept in your county and buy a copy of your relative's death certificate
Call your state bar association right away and tell them what kind of lawyer you need. If you're on fixed income like SSI with no outside help, definitely make that known. You should be assigned a lawyer who works on contingency
When meeting with your lawyer, you'll be required to come up with the fee needed to open the estate for your relative. Keep all important documents and any collaboration with the insurance company and if you have trouble, contact your state "department of insurance". If your case is forwarded, follow that lead and take your case there. If the next department of insurance won't help, this is where your lawyer will be helpful
What you'll need
Your birth certificate (if this is an aging parent)
A copy of the completed insurance claims form
Any letters and other collaboration with the insurance company along with any other letters with any involved department of insurance.
A copy of the obits proving the person's death
If you're an abuse survivor at the hands of that deceased, proving there was a fuse in the family and why you couldn't be in the picture will really help your case if you weren't allowed to be in the picture for safety reasons and the choice of that parent. Not having been allowed to have a healthy loving relationship with the parent is hard, but in the end good will come out of it in your case if this is a parent. This will prove that you had nothing to do with the fraud, especially if you had no transportation and work mostly stuck in your town and especially near your home around the time things were going on
Depending on the process of settling the estate, it may actually take a while. In Ohio, it it takes about three months from the time your appointment fiduciary by the court for you to obtain your deceased parents inventory and accounting information. If you have absolutely no access to those, kindly let your lawyer know and they should be able to take care of it for you after you've hired them.
As worrisome as it may sound, you may not necessarily want to panic if you don't hear from your lawyer for even long periods of time after the estate is open and you've been appointed fiduciary. Your lawyer is probably working in the background though you may not know what's going on, especially if he or she has a very large caseload. The good ones always do from what I've heard, so try not to call too often, but call periodically to make sure everything's going OK. I know this is going to be hard to hear if you get this far, but try not to panic during the silent Times. I read somewhere that lawyers often advise trustees for instance not to talk to beneficiaries about assets. At first I didn't understand why because after all, they are your assets if there's a strong chance you're entitled to them. What a friend explained is that the reason why beneficiaries are not allowed to know about assets is probably most likely to be for their protection so no one can take advantage of the beneficiaries entitled to those assets. So far this has been about the only reason I've heard as to why beneficiaries and trustees are not allowed to talk about assets. This can be hard if you happen to be handling your very first estate case, it can be scary being in the dark. Just remember if you live in Ohio, there's a minimum of about three months waiting once your appointed fiduciary over the estate. Then, also remember creditors have up to six months to claim debts owed to them, after which the door is forever shut if no claim is made. Money owed to the estate is usually on hold for a certain amount of time until it's time to settle and pay the estate. I'm not yet sure though how money is removed from the estate and transferred to the beneficiaries, I'm not yet that far ahead. However, I'm sure your lawyer will know how this is done. When everything is done and over and everything is transferred to the appropriate proper beneficiaries, then the estate will be closed and your duty as the fiduciary will be done. There are some cases where you may be listed as the only family left, which would mean that if elder fraud was discovered, you would serve not only as the fiduciary but also the beneficiary as long as you really are the only one left like I am in my case. As long as elder fraud can be proven, you will win in the end when all is done and the estate is settled. Just be careful though to protect all recovered assets so that whoever the wall had to recover them from can't come back on you and take them back. If the person in question from whom the law had to recover money and assets has a proven record of fraudulent activity such as unpaid taxes and foreclosure, this will also work in your favor since you'll be able to have one up on the fraudster because now you have proof from public record of that activity. Let's say the fraudster had property and wouldn't pay taxes. The IRS eventually goes after that person and if they still don't pay, the property is seized and sold in a sheriffs sale and all back taxes are recovered through that sale and paid to the IRS
If you know the fraudster's name and where they lived at the time the fraud happened
Go to Google
Type in the search box:
{County name} {your state} {public records}
In Ohio, let's say the fraud happened in Lorain County. You would type in the search box
Lorain county Ohio public records Search or enter On the next page you'll see the search results. Click around until you find what looks like the actual page you need. In Ohio, We have options available on the side of the page where we can do searches. In the two boxes, there is a space on the main page for Lorain County where are you type in the persons last name and in the other box their first name.
* Be very careful to spell the name correctly. If the legal first name of the person is actually the longer version of their name and not the short version, type in the longer version. Let's say we use the name Joseph. Don't type in Joe if the legal name is Joseph for instance. If you type in the correct spelling in the name search boxes, any records that exist under that name will come up.
Now, find the one with the proper middle initial. If you must get a hold of the county recorder to find any property that may have belong to that questionable party/your deceased relative, you may do so, but contact that particular county's public recorder. They should lead you through the navigation of their website right to where there should be a copy of the deed if property was transferred. Chances are it may have an official stamp a crossed it, meaning the probate court judge may not except an unofficial copy and you'll probably have to let your lawyer help you get this.
You can try alerting the cops and even APS to the fraud of the deceased person, but you may discover the cops and APS probably won't be too helpful if the person has already died. These establishments are probably going to be most helpful if the elder is still living but in your case it sounds like they're not. This is what lawyers are for.
I must share a special tip:
Opening an estate is for more than just collecting money, it's also a power to subpoena appropriate documents and force cooperation from companies who would otherwise be noncompliant and uncooperative. Sometimes it's discovered and the questionable establishment may actually be in the wrong or it may be that they just don't realize elder fraud really occurred. However, if you have proof you tried to warn let's say a life insurance company of your suspicions of fraud, especially very shortly before your relatives death and they still don't listen and still end up paying the wrong person, this is where your lawyer will be especially helpful. There have been people say that in some of these types of cases, the insurance company may have to pay out again and just go after the person they wrongfully paid. This may vary and may not be the case in every case. Sometimes you may have to go after the person who was wrongfully paid if it was proven the insurance company was just doing their job. However, if the insurance company was found to be in the wrong, they may have to make restitution depending on the case.
If your case happens to be a complicated one, it may take longer to settle the estate depending on the size of that estate. If it's a very big estate, sometimes it might take years whereas smaller ones may not take nearest long. How long to settle an estate may also depend on how long the court process takes because courts can move very slow in some cases. If the court process is slow due to a very big caseload with lots of other cases, it may take longer and having a very big estate can also slow down the court process of asset recovery if fraud was proven.
Again, if you end up with actual payment into the estate, take proper precautions to protect those assets with an iron fist. You'll definitely want legal protections in place especially as you age. That's because you not only have vultures out there but you also need to be very wary of predatory abusive guardianship. There are many nightmares out there of people who have been suddenly forced out of their homes when cops show up and use a battering ram to ram in the door and break into someone's home, only to physically drag them out the door of their own home when they happen to be home alone and not know what's coming. This often happens to a very elderly person who has not even committed a crime and is very well able to take care of themselves. What happens is predatory abusive guardians target wealthy elders with money and assets. I think you should learn everything there is to learn everything there is to know about predatory abuse of guardianship. Together we can make our voices heard and do our part to speak up and speak out and one day stamp out this "legalized" fraudulent abuse against our elders. Our elders have a right to age place if they choose, that's there right. They don't have to answer if someone comes to the door and they just don't want to be bothered. No answer means go away, not processed and break in my door and drag me out of my home. No answer means go away, go away, go away and don't come back! They don't have to answer the phone or their mail if they don't want to, that's also their right. No one has any right terrorize in our elders just because they have money and property. You never know when someone may ram in your door and you may actually have a double barrel or far worse. Putting myself in the shoes of one of them, I would definitely have a weapon candy and would shoot the first person who busted my door in no matter who it is. There would be no phone call to the cops, there wouldn't be a chance if they're already breaking your down your door and you happen to be on the phone. Your best bet is to go for the gun and use it if someone is burglarizing your home and comes to do you harm. If you only knew about predatory abuse of guardianship and how that system works, you would be doing everything to gain as much knowledge as absolutely possible and start taking steps to protect yourself. Please, go on YouTube and learn about this topic, it'll blow your mind because it's very eye-opening
Usually you do not have what they are looking for, accusing them if your loved one gave them access isn't enough, even if you suspect it. Her POA's spent 6,400 dollars a month when they did not move out her furniture when she was removed from AL, it can be proved, that comes out to 19,000 something dollars. we were already in court and it comes down to greed of the court, the court made her sell her house in the end, to pay 15,000 dollars to a GAL and their lawyers 12,000 dollars for the false charge of abuse wielded against us, 10,000 for another lawyer that did help the women, our lawyer was given the shaft as well as we, they did not pay us back our deposit, because they pinched our lawyer and since he did deserve to be paid, we let him have the deposit.
The problem is that the house when sold became part of the trust and we if the guardian doesn't want to pay us, does not have to pay us. so far that is the way that it is, we are going to go to one more elderly attorney to find out if their is anything to do with a lien on a trust or any other, he also did not get paid for the kitchen and bathroom reno's or the changing of the doors to no door knobs, the slide handle, to accommodate his ailing father who had RA. Not to mention 5 years of paying for food and medicine, see they have the bank account unless we can subpoena the bank records, who would have thought to save all the receipts, after all, its family, and they knew what was going on...HA!
Hometown - I totally understand your frustration with this situation - and I can see where Enriched is coming from - but, in my opinion, it will be better for your emotional and mental well being to let it go and move on. I believe in "what goes around, comes around" - so the family member who was abusing granddad will get theirs someday. If you can't forgive, then forget so you can focus on the things in your life that will create peace and happiness for you and your family. Just my thoughts . . .
My neighbor is experiencing THE VERY SAME horrific situation…AND fears that the two hellish peeps may have actually had a hand in her Aunt's death. My response: 1. NAIL 'EM!!!!!! 2. Speak w/your local senior/elder advocacy group/center—they most likely have a lawyer on tap who specializes w/elders. OR, find an attorney who does! 3. HAVE YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW!!! Organize your paperwork [gallon-sized zip-loc baggies work REALLY well—they are contained & you can see thru them—easier to file!!!!!! MAKE COPIES, keep the originals!] & approach your District Attorney if the other resources are not available vs. the police. There are also attorneys online that you might be able to secure some preliminary answers/council [be smart/be careful!] that you can utilize for a membership fee—choose carefully! 4. Create a SIMPLE, written time-line that reflects your documents/findings/ documentation. Take pics if possible, record 'conversations' as well. Scan & back up your written/printed evidence. This is one of the MOST HEINUS forms of abuse—targeting the most vulnerable persons [along w/children & special needs individuals!]. SPEAKING UP & TAKING ACTION IS THE ONLY WAY TO SPEAK FOR THOSE WHO CANNOT!!! 5. Approach w/the angle of seeking assistance—don't alienate the 'authorities' w/your anger—they deal w/enough of that & might well stop listening! 'Position' them on your side. 6. Do your own [preliminary] footwork—talk to the banker, talk to the neighbors, talk to the shop owners where your loved one shopped, etc…but again, be as gentle as possible, and—again, 'position' them on your [loved one's] side before pointing fingers. People do NOT want to 'become involved' often—this is where 'artful inclusion' in terms of asking them to 'help you understand…' will benefit you most in the long run. 7. Do NOT come across as greedy relatives who are looking just for their $$. Seek 'justice' for your elder that might have been taken advantage of, or scammed. 8. Do not stop until you get the answers you need/want—contact the media [investigative reporters, news—local or national] IF they are not related to or politically [$$] endeared—AGAIN, BE CAREFUL! 9. Remember…this is a NOBLE venture in terms of how you are spending your time & energy. If your 'loved one' had trusted church affiliations [TRUSTED], seek assistance/input/feedback/info/resources/references. Very best of luck—will keep you posted on my neighbor's 'journey'. Enriched
And that is why "this system" it needs to change. It is the Domestic violence that is hush hush, because too many people make money from the corruptness of it all. The lawyers, the GAL's, the guardians, the realtors, the people who get paid for care-giving, etc. it always seems the kids that do the "right thing" never get a credit, or a glory, it seems they get the the tough side, but in the long run they can sleep at night.
You can try. You might be successful. As purplesushi said, be careful of accusing someone unless you have solid proof. I asked my lawyer about bringing charges against mom's paid part time caregiver and he said it was treacherous ground to walk on unless I could prove it. He told me I should also be careful that I and any recording keeping was squeaky clean so so she couldn't came back at me in retaliation. He said a lot of this type of stuff is done by people who know how to get away with it. It's a shame but a sad fact.
We reported her family, POA's for financial neglect and abuse and still did not have a leg to stand on, plus we were and still are the unpaid caregivers of our 86 year old.
Our 86 year old is still very much alive, they did not pay for her medication or food for 5 years we did. we also reported them to senior abuse hotline. The POA's lawyered up and said that we were abusing her. They removed her from her home and found out that they could not do what we could do. They put her in an assisted living that charged $6,400.00 to place her in a little room. we want them to repay the squandering of her small (60,000) savings. In the 5 years that we paid for her food and medicine, there was never a thank you. The good outcome is that she has a guardian that is not the POA's because the POA's lost their rights when they spent all her savings and sold her house and were unable to get guardianship, guess why? NEGLECT. we are still going to see a senior attorney to find out what if anything we can get for restitution, for taking care of the 86 year old and trying to defame us in the process. It sometimes doesn't seem to get any easier, no matter how much time passes and for us the nightmare began (2 yrs.) but was bound to happen anyway, when we reported them for financial neglect and abuse.
yes have documentation and if the person has passed i suspect you would want restitution of monies? I am doubtful that any agency will act given that the victim has passed.
Be careful what you accuse someone of unless you have solid proof this has occurred. Were you directly related to your grandfather's care before he passed? Do you have first-hand knowledge someone was taking advantage of him? If not, my advice is to let it go until you do.
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In my dad's case, there was no will. He also had Alzheimer's. He also happened to be a retired Ford motors worker with a life insurance policy through an insurance company called UniCARE. He had a POA but no guardian. That POA ended up changing the life insurance beneficiary to herself from next of kin, definitely illegal in Ohio. Now to this day as of 2018, there is still a pending lawsuit against not only the fraudster who was proven to be A thief but also UniCARE who gave my money to the fraudster despite my best efforts to sound the alarm only to have my money still given away to the fraudster. Now, UniCARE is also in very hot water because there is now evidence of complete correspondence including correspondence with the Ohio department of insurance ODI as well as the Michigan department of insurance MDOA. UniCARE knows I'm a survivor as I have proven this and they also know I'm the only blood relative my dad left behind. They have proof of this through my birth certificate but sadly they were keeping me in the dark about what was really going on. What the ODI ended up having to get from them is what was going on about the money I know I'm legally entitled to. All they could do is get answers and tell me what was believed to be my dad changing his life insurance beneficiary three weeks before he died. It turns out dad wasn't the one who did it, the POA did it. Now they're both in trouble, both the POA who changed the life insurance beneficiary, causing UniCARE to pay her. They paid out in February 2017. The fraudster who got my dad's house sold it for well below market value and most likely coerced my dad into signing a TOD to sign his home over to her, all without my knowledge. What made things worse is I never got to say goodbye to my dad or participate in the funeral arrangements, which were also done without my knowledge. My dad was my last living relative, and I never got a chance to say goodbye. At very least I could've had closure but I think maybe the fraudster may have been trying to hide other signs of abuse, which may be why I was never contacted until after everything was done and over. Anyway, now the fraudster is in trouble for causing this whole mess and I look to collect big time. Let my story be a story of hope that yes, you can report elder financial abuse after someone dies. Remember, don't contact the APS, contact a lawyer through your State bar association. Open an estate for that person if you happen to be next of kin, abide by your state laws on this one. You're best off to let a lawyer handle this so there are no mistakes on your part and you can't get sued. Lawyers usually know how to handle legal matters better than the average person without proper training
The most vital thing to tackling elder financial abuse and recovering as much as possible is acting very quickly and finding the right people to help you. For best results though, you definitely need to get a lawyer and open an estate for that person. Remember though, any unpaid debts will need to be paid first out of any winnings if elder financial abuse is proven and money is granted the fiduciary. What I found out in handling my first case is the estate is the plaintive if there's a lawsuit involved. If your estate is open and you need more time, your lawyer will definitely need to file for an extension so the estate doesn't get closed since the estate would be the plaintiff in the case. Sometime in the end of 2017 around the major holidays, the fraudster who took advantage of my dad was served papers and the life insurance company who gave my money to the fraudster was also sent some papers regarding a lawsuit. In my dad's case, elder financial fraud was actually proven when my lawyer found the papers proving the POA admittedly changed the life insurance beneficiary from next of kin to herself, meaning she tampered with legal papers she had no right touching. One word of warning to anyone who would dare mess with the elderly or even the disabled for that matter is that it's been said there are very long prison sentences for people who abuse and take advantage of our elders and the disabled. If you knew anyone who spent any time locked up and the way of life in the big house, it would discourage you from committing a crime. Messing with elders and the disabled can get you in very hot water and you can get locked up for a very long time and lose everything you wrongfully took from someone you were supposed to be helping when it turned out you were only helping yourself to what you could get from them. Whatever you still when you get locked up will eventually be taken from you anyway, so you're better off to do the right thing and return what you stole to the rightful owners or the rightful heirs of those the deceased left behind and intended to have what you stole. Don't forget, when people steal from our elders, they also steal from their heirs
What I had to do is open an estate for my dad after getting the lawyer.
I was appointed fiduciary
Assets were gathered and appraised
Inventory was filed
Estate debts are paid
Filing any necessary taxes is part of the process
Distribution of remaining assets to beneficiaries
Closing the estate and terminating fiduciary duties
Now how a lawsuit works with an estate is a mystery to me because I'm dealing with the same kind of thing you are, discovered elder fraud after the elder died. I'm at a certain point where I have questions right now on what's going on with the lawsuit situation since we can't find the fraudster but the insurance company is also responsible so I don't know what's up there and how this will pan out in this unusual situation. I'm so glad to know I'm not alone as I feel like the only one dealing with this type of unusual situation especially with it being my first case
One thing you may want to do especially if you live in Ohio is call your state attorney general. They have a special department for individuals who are dealing with this type of case. There's a special department for handling situations where individuals defraud elders but they also have one for when companies defraud elders. Since you're dealing with the same similar thing I'm dealing with, definitely check with your state Attorney General and ask them for the department that deals with situations where individuals defraud elders. This is how I found out about it. I called the attorney general and told them the situation since they handle elder fraud specifically. I asked them if they were able to help in my type of situation and they forwarded me to the department that deals with this type of situation we're both dealing with. There's a department that deals with individuals who defraud elders. At least the Attorney General will know but I don't know what they can do about it since I don't really know how the Attorney General handles these matters. If you obtain a lawyer to help you with this, another good thing to do is to see about having law enforcement contacted in the area where the fraud happened, especially if the fraudster skipped to another area and you know where they went. If you know their workplace, call the head department of that particular place and worn headquarters. The fraudster I found out about happened to work at a specific place and I called headquarters to warn them about the fraudster and what was done. If you can contact headquarters of that person's work place, it's all the better especially if you know there's a high likelihood to the fraudster handles cash. That's because if you have a fraudster working at a local store, it hurts us all at some point.
* Let me tell you, if the fraudster is convicted of fraud, they're probably also guilty of coercing your elder into signing over other property. Don't let it fool you that the signature from your elder is actually their's, they were most likely coerced by the fraudster. Such a thing would have to be the house if your elder owned a home or other assets like a car or business. It's all too common for a much younger person to come along and catch the elder alone and start working on them and coercing them into signing over whatever it is the vulture is after. Vultures never give up until they get what they want and I'll explain why. Vultures take advantage of the declining mental state of aging individuals, especially if those elders happened to be developing dementia or Alzheimer's. If this was the case in your particular case then you definitely have a leg to stand on and the law is definitely on your side. In my case since I was the only surviving relative, the law was definitely on my side and the more things you have in your favor, the better, especially if you're an abuse survivor who was rendered disabled from the abuse on top of what we're dealing with. Such was the case with me and what's even more in my favor is I'm dealing with a hardship that's been going on for quite a long time.
So here's my situation:
My dad died intestate and he had Alzheimer's
He also had a house and a life insurance policy
The fraudster ended up with everything
In Ohio, POA is not allowed to use their powers to give themselves anything. This is exactly what happened with the life insurance policy through ford motor paid out by UniCARE.
UniCARE didn't know at the time what really happened. At some point I warned uniCARE something was off and they ignored every warning as did the department of insurance
Now I'm dealing with the aftermath of elder fraud because the fraudster was found and fraud was proven
I'm in the end stage of an estate situation pending finding out how the lawsuit will fit into all of this and I must find out before he estate closes if this will continue with the lawsuit or what will happen
What the fraudster did has caused further undue hardship to me as the only survivor and living on SSI with being disabled is not easy, especially when you can't get financed for a car because you have enough income
This is basically the jam in and hopefully it'll be over soon and very soon. All I can do is wait it out and keep calling my lawyer regularly to try to find out what's going on. I hope you come to a happy resolution in your situation because we're dealing with very similar situations
Some people may actually say to forget it and move on as what was mentioned here. However, some situations require action if it's a serious enough hardship on the elder and their survivors. When something like we're dealing with causes such a hardship that it leaves you pretty much stuck at home with no outside help with money or transportation, then you need to act especially when it's a situation where you know that money will definitely improve your quality of life. God never meant for anyone to have to live like prisoners due to lack of necessity. When you lack necessity, that's when it's absolutely necessary to take action because the fraudsters actions are negatively affecting others. Fraudsters don't care about anyone but themselves so they don't care about anyone else's needs. If not stopped, fraudsters will continue defrauding others. If by chance you go after the fraudster with the help of your lawyer, and the fraudster can't be found chances are the fraudster probably moved on to their new supply after targeting a new victim
What you really need to know right now is elder abuse laws exist for a reason, to help stop elder abuse and punish wrongdoers. Sadly though, elder abuse often goes unreported for various reasons. In the case of financial abuse it not only causes financial hardship to the elder, but also to the elders rightful heir's who may actually already be in financial hardship themselves. Unpunished elder financial abuse would allow undue hardship to continue and crimes to continue causing those hardships. By all means, report, report, report those crimes!
Now, if you live in Ohio, you can follow my thread under discussions. This was actually started as a question in the very start before I was able to find a lawyer to take my case. As things finally started unfolding, new developments came into place.
The first thing you want to do if there was a life insurance policy is collaborate with the life insurance policy and give them your personal info
Contact the courthouse where death certificates are kept in your county and buy a copy of your relative's death certificate
Call your state bar association right away and tell them what kind of lawyer you need. If you're on fixed income like SSI with no outside help, definitely make that known. You should be assigned a lawyer who works on contingency
When meeting with your lawyer, you'll be required to come up with the fee needed to open the estate for your relative. Keep all important documents and any collaboration with the insurance company and if you have trouble, contact your state "department of insurance". If your case is forwarded, follow that lead and take your case there. If the next department of insurance won't help, this is where your lawyer will be helpful
What you'll need
Your birth certificate (if this is an aging parent)
A copy of the completed insurance claims form
Any letters and other collaboration with the insurance company along with any other letters with any involved department of insurance.
A copy of the obits proving the person's death
If you're an abuse survivor at the hands of that deceased, proving there was a fuse in the family and why you couldn't be in the picture will really help your case if you weren't allowed to be in the picture for safety reasons and the choice of that parent. Not having been allowed to have a healthy loving relationship with the parent is hard, but in the end good will come out of it in your case if this is a parent. This will prove that you had nothing to do with the fraud, especially if you had no transportation and work mostly stuck in your town and especially near your home around the time things were going on
Depending on the process of settling the estate, it may actually take a while. In Ohio, it it takes about three months from the time your appointment fiduciary by the court for you to obtain your deceased parents inventory and accounting information. If you have absolutely no access to those, kindly let your lawyer know and they should be able to take care of it for you after you've hired them.
As worrisome as it may sound, you may not necessarily want to panic if you don't hear from your lawyer for even long periods of time after the estate is open and you've been appointed fiduciary. Your lawyer is probably working in the background though you may not know what's going on, especially if he or she has a very large caseload. The good ones always do from what I've heard, so try not to call too often, but call periodically to make sure everything's going OK. I know this is going to be hard to hear if you get this far, but try not to panic during the silent Times. I read somewhere that lawyers often advise trustees for instance not to talk to beneficiaries about assets. At first I didn't understand why because after all, they are your assets if there's a strong chance you're entitled to them. What a friend explained is that the reason why beneficiaries are not allowed to know about assets is probably most likely to be for their protection so no one can take advantage of the beneficiaries entitled to those assets. So far this has been about the only reason I've heard as to why beneficiaries and trustees are not allowed to talk about assets. This can be hard if you happen to be handling your very first estate case, it can be scary being in the dark. Just remember if you live in Ohio, there's a minimum of about three months waiting once your appointed fiduciary over the estate. Then, also remember creditors have up to six months to claim debts owed to them, after which the door is forever shut if no claim is made. Money owed to the estate is usually on hold for a certain amount of time until it's time to settle and pay the estate. I'm not yet sure though how money is removed from the estate and transferred to the beneficiaries, I'm not yet that far ahead. However, I'm sure your lawyer will know how this is done. When everything is done and over and everything is transferred to the appropriate proper beneficiaries, then the estate will be closed and your duty as the fiduciary will be done. There are some cases where you may be listed as the only family left, which would mean that if elder fraud was discovered, you would serve not only as the fiduciary but also the beneficiary as long as you really are the only one left like I am in my case. As long as elder fraud can be proven, you will win in the end when all is done and the estate is settled. Just be careful though to protect all recovered assets so that whoever the wall had to recover them from can't come back on you and take them back. If the person in question from whom the law had to recover money and assets has a proven record of fraudulent activity such as unpaid taxes and foreclosure, this will also work in your favor since you'll be able to have one up on the fraudster because now you have proof from public record of that activity. Let's say the fraudster had property and wouldn't pay taxes. The IRS eventually goes after that person and if they still don't pay, the property is seized and sold in a sheriffs sale and all back taxes are recovered through that sale and paid to the IRS
If you know the fraudster's name and where they lived at the time the fraud happened
Go to Google
Type in the search box:
{County name} {your state} {public records}
In Ohio, let's say the fraud happened in Lorain County. You would type in the search box
Lorain county Ohio public records
Search or enter
On the next page you'll see the search results. Click around until you find what looks like the actual page you need. In Ohio, We have options available on the side of the page where we can do searches. In the two boxes, there is a space on the main page for Lorain County where are you type in the persons last name and in the other box their first name.
* Be very careful to spell the name correctly. If the legal first name of the person is actually the longer version of their name and not the short version, type in the longer version. Let's say we use the name Joseph. Don't type in Joe if the legal name is Joseph for instance. If you type in the correct spelling in the name search boxes, any records that exist under that name will come up.
Now, find the one with the proper middle initial. If you must get a hold of the county recorder to find any property that may have belong to that questionable party/your deceased relative, you may do so, but contact that particular county's public recorder. They should lead you through the navigation of their website right to where there should be a copy of the deed if property was transferred. Chances are it may have an official stamp a crossed it, meaning the probate court judge may not except an unofficial copy and you'll probably have to let your lawyer help you get this.
You can try alerting the cops and even APS to the fraud of the deceased person, but you may discover the cops and APS probably won't be too helpful if the person has already died. These establishments are probably going to be most helpful if the elder is still living but in your case it sounds like they're not. This is what lawyers are for.
I must share a special tip:
Opening an estate is for more than just collecting money, it's also a power to subpoena appropriate documents and force cooperation from companies who would otherwise be noncompliant and uncooperative. Sometimes it's discovered and the questionable establishment may actually be in the wrong or it may be that they just don't realize elder fraud really occurred. However, if you have proof you tried to warn let's say a life insurance company of your suspicions of fraud, especially very shortly before your relatives death and they still don't listen and still end up paying the wrong person, this is where your lawyer will be especially helpful. There have been people say that in some of these types of cases, the insurance company may have to pay out again and just go after the person they wrongfully paid. This may vary and may not be the case in every case. Sometimes you may have to go after the person who was wrongfully paid if it was proven the insurance company was just doing their job. However, if the insurance company was found to be in the wrong, they may have to make restitution depending on the case.
If your case happens to be a complicated one, it may take longer to settle the estate depending on the size of that estate. If it's a very big estate, sometimes it might take years whereas smaller ones may not take nearest long. How long to settle an estate may also depend on how long the court process takes because courts can move very slow in some cases. If the court process is slow due to a very big caseload with lots of other cases, it may take longer and having a very big estate can also slow down the court process of asset recovery if fraud was proven.
Again, if you end up with actual payment into the estate, take proper precautions to protect those assets with an iron fist. You'll definitely want legal protections in place especially as you age. That's because you not only have vultures out there but you also need to be very wary of predatory abusive guardianship. There are many nightmares out there of people who have been suddenly forced out of their homes when cops show up and use a battering ram to ram in the door and break into someone's home, only to physically drag them out the door of their own home when they happen to be home alone and not know what's coming. This often happens to a very elderly person who has not even committed a crime and is very well able to take care of themselves. What happens is predatory abusive guardians target wealthy elders with money and assets. I think you should learn everything there is to learn everything there is to know about predatory abuse of guardianship. Together we can make our voices heard and do our part to speak up and speak out and one day stamp out this "legalized" fraudulent abuse against our elders. Our elders have a right to age place if they choose, that's there right. They don't have to answer if someone comes to the door and they just don't want to be bothered. No answer means go away, not processed and break in my door and drag me out of my home. No answer means go away, go away, go away and don't come back! They don't have to answer the phone or their mail if they don't want to, that's also their right. No one has any right terrorize in our elders just because they have money and property. You never know when someone may ram in your door and you may actually have a double barrel or far worse. Putting myself in the shoes of one of them, I would definitely have a weapon candy and would shoot the first person who busted my door in no matter who it is. There would be no phone call to the cops, there wouldn't be a chance if they're already breaking your down your door and you happen to be on the phone. Your best bet is to go for the gun and use it if someone is burglarizing your home and comes to do you harm. If you only knew about predatory abuse of guardianship and how that system works, you would be doing everything to gain as much knowledge as absolutely possible and start taking steps to protect yourself. Please, go on YouTube and learn about this topic, it'll blow your mind because it's very eye-opening
Her POA's spent 6,400 dollars a month when they did not move out her furniture when she was removed from AL, it can be proved, that comes out to 19,000 something dollars. we were already in court and it comes down to greed of the court, the court made her sell her house in the end, to pay 15,000 dollars to a GAL and their lawyers 12,000 dollars for the false charge of abuse wielded against us, 10,000 for another lawyer that did help the women, our lawyer was given the shaft as well as we, they did not pay us back our deposit, because they pinched our lawyer and since he did deserve to be paid, we let him have the deposit.
The problem is that the house when sold became part of the trust and we if the guardian doesn't want to pay us, does not have to pay us. so far that is the way that it is, we are going to go to one more elderly attorney to find out if their is anything to do with a lien on a trust or any other, he also did not get paid for the kitchen and bathroom reno's or the changing of the doors to no door knobs, the slide handle, to accommodate his ailing father who had RA. Not to mention 5 years of paying for food and medicine, see they have the bank account unless we can subpoena the bank records, who would have thought to save all the receipts, after all, its family, and they knew what was going on...HA!
My response:
1. NAIL 'EM!!!!!!
2. Speak w/your local senior/elder advocacy group/center—they most likely have a lawyer on tap who specializes w/elders. OR, find an attorney who does!
3. HAVE YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW!!! Organize your paperwork [gallon-sized zip-loc baggies work REALLY well—they are contained & you can see thru them—easier to file!!!!!! MAKE COPIES, keep the originals!] & approach your District Attorney if the other resources are not available vs. the police. There are also attorneys online that you might be able to secure some preliminary answers/council [be smart/be careful!] that you can utilize for a membership fee—choose carefully!
4. Create a SIMPLE, written time-line that reflects your documents/findings/ documentation. Take pics if possible, record 'conversations' as well. Scan & back up your written/printed evidence.
This is one of the MOST HEINUS forms of abuse—targeting the most vulnerable persons [along w/children & special needs individuals!].
SPEAKING UP & TAKING ACTION IS THE ONLY WAY TO SPEAK FOR THOSE WHO CANNOT!!!
5. Approach w/the angle of seeking assistance—don't alienate the 'authorities' w/your anger—they deal w/enough of that & might well stop listening! 'Position' them on your side.
6. Do your own [preliminary] footwork—talk to the banker, talk to the neighbors, talk to the shop owners where your loved one shopped, etc…but again, be as gentle as possible, and—again, 'position' them on your [loved one's] side before pointing fingers. People do NOT want to 'become involved' often—this is where 'artful inclusion' in terms of asking them to 'help you understand…' will benefit you most in the long run.
7. Do NOT come across as greedy relatives who are looking just for their $$. Seek 'justice' for your elder that might have been taken advantage of, or scammed.
8. Do not stop until you get the answers you need/want—contact the media [investigative reporters, news—local or national] IF they are not related to or politically [$$] endeared—AGAIN, BE CAREFUL!
9. Remember…this is a NOBLE venture in terms of how you are spending your time & energy. If your 'loved one' had trusted church affiliations [TRUSTED], seek assistance/input/feedback/info/resources/references.
Very best of luck—will keep you posted on my neighbor's 'journey'.
Enriched
It is the Domestic violence that is hush hush, because too many people make money from the corruptness of it all. The lawyers, the GAL's, the guardians, the realtors, the people who get paid for care-giving, etc. it always seems the kids that do the "right thing" never get a credit, or a glory, it seems they get the the tough side, but in the long run they can sleep at night.
Our 86 year old is still very much alive, they did not pay for her medication or food for 5 years we did. we also reported them to senior abuse hotline. The POA's lawyered up and said that we were abusing her. They removed her from her home and found out that they could not do what we could do. They put her in an assisted living that charged $6,400.00 to place her in a little room. we want them to repay the squandering of her small (60,000) savings. In the 5 years that we paid for her food and medicine, there was never a thank you. The good outcome is that she has a guardian that is not the POA's because the POA's lost their rights when they spent all her savings and sold her house and were unable to get guardianship, guess why? NEGLECT.
we are still going to see a senior attorney to find out what if anything we can get for restitution, for taking care of the 86 year old and trying to defame us in the process. It sometimes doesn't seem to get any easier, no matter how much time passes and for us the nightmare began (2 yrs.) but was bound to happen anyway, when we reported them for financial neglect and abuse.