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I was informed by the director and the NH my mom has too much money n her trust account. Since I'm POA do I have the authority to take it out and put it n a savings account at the bank
Is Medicaid paying for your Mom's care? If "yes," it's your duty under the Power of Attorney document to manage her business in a way that will not disqualify her from continued coverage for her care. A Medicaid resident can not own countable assets worth more than $2,000, but there are many categories of NONcountable assets.
What is the current balance of your Mom's personal needs account at the nursing home? Ask the nursing home administrator. If your Mom is a Medicaid resident and she is over Medicaid's allowable asset amount, you could use the excess assets to pay for things that she needs that are non countable.
Talk with an elder law attorney in your state, who can guide you to make the best decisions to protect your Mom, and you.
If mom is on Medicaid, she needs to spend down that money. Moving it to a savings account does not get the dollar amount under the limit. Putting it in a savings account in your name would cause a gift penalty and be a violation of POA laws. Ask the director for suggestions how to spend down.
Kitty - if mom is on Medicaid, whatever she has set aside as assets - whether she still has a checking account, savings account or NH personal needs trust account - the $ cannot exceed the asset limit of 2k every month. It sounds like the NH is getting mom's income each month - like her SS check or retirement check - and the $ that set apart for her Personal Needs is going into a PNA trust account at the NH. PNA varies by state. Like for my mom in TX it was $ 60 a mo. If her PNA has gotten too high, then it becomes an issue for Medicaid and will make her ineligible. Neither you or mom or the NH want that to happen.
What I've found in the mice maze adventure that is dealing with Medicaid, is that many of the rules aren't clear to figure out. Your mom's PNA $ can be withdrawn by you if your her DPOA & used to buy her clothes, toiletries, pay on a low cost premium funeral policy. NH biz office should have a ledger just for this purpose.
Some NH have charges that are not covered by Medicaid - like in room phone or cable - and those monthly charges are taken from the PNA. Other NH have them on weekly beauty shoppe visits and the PNA gets spent that way.
But other NH's just let the $ sit. Problem is that it builds up $ each month and then becomes a problem for Medicaid eligibility as moms assets go over 2k. There have been posts on this from family who didn;t understand the PNA system and the Nh went and bought mom an expensive wheelchair to get her over 2K PNA down to under $ 100.
Before you get all upset with the NH, go to biz office and review her PNA funds from her first month @ the NH. If she has been there for a while, it could well be that the NH had mom spend $ 200 or whatever on an outing so she's totally under the asset limit for Medicaid.
BTW mom does NOT have to have her income go to the NH directly. Mom could continue to have a checking account with a check written each mo to the NH for her co-pay and you let the PNA build in her account each mo. I did it this way for my mom at both NH mom was in. Now some NH will press on family for the direct deposit/making NH payee as its easier on all. But they cannot make you do it this way. But if payments are late, there will be late fees that you (not mom) owes. If you miss a payment, mom can be taken off Medicaid. So only go this route if you can be totally all-in for making mom's co-pay to the NH like clockwork.
Becoming the Representative Payee requires bookkeeping and answering to the SS administration. Plus, with someone who gets Medicaid, most of the money will go to the facility for her care. That leaves a small monthly amount to manage. Seems like a lot of time and energy investment, when the facility can do it.
If you spend those funds on her behalf for clothes, toiletries, personal items, etc., then, they should reimburse you. The total has to be kept down under a certain amount or she may lose her eligibility.
If the facility has her funds in trust, they have to keep a record and provide it to the POA upon request. Usually, Medicaid will ask for a copy at least once a year for their review of her eligibility.
No point in being representative payee, let the check go directly to the nursing home. You can legally spend down by getting her hair done monthly, buy some new clothes or furniture, but NOT by gifting.
If she is on medicaid you HAVE to spend it on her. Buy clothes , toiletries, haircut, stuff for her room, take her out to lunch. Keep the receipts, copy & save the copies, then bring them and have the NH reimburse you. I try to keep up with this spending- I buy slippers, shoes, glasses,clothes by the ton. It is HARD to buy stuff when they are in the NH- but they will tell you how to spend it!
I just read your profile; you need to ask for either an accounting of or restitution for the two $200 withdrawals that were made from your mom's account.
You can become your mother's representative payee for SS. Go to the Soc. Sec. website and find out how.
You mentioned your moms funeral. Could you look into a pre need purchase of a funeral at a funeral home and then spend the money each month ( or quarter) as a payment on her funeral? Might be an easy solution.
Which brings me to my question. Not trying to hijack this thread, but....Pamstegma, you said putting mom's $ in your own name violates POA laws. I carefully read the terms of my POA documents, and I have consulted with an attorney on the things I've done, like sell mom's furniture on her behalf when I gave up her apt. I was never made aware of any "POA laws." Can you point me to a statute?
I opened a separate account in my name where I deposited mom's money and I used it SOLELY for her benefit. I don't have any receipts except what I might have done on my credit card. I withdraw her monthly allowance from the nursing home and I deposit it in an investment account (separate from my funds) which will be used for her final expenses. I paid for her plot myself, I spend over $500 a month of my own $ for her to have a private aide, I buy all her replacement clothes myself (I am not stealing her money), but I take her trust money from the NH and put it in an acct in my own name. If it came to it, I could prove that I spent many times her trust money on things for her, but to make things easier, I have "her" money in my name, since I'm the person accessing it.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
What is the current balance of your Mom's personal needs account at the nursing home? Ask the nursing home administrator. If your Mom is a Medicaid resident and she is over Medicaid's allowable asset amount, you could use the excess assets to pay for things that she needs that are non countable.
Talk with an elder law attorney in your state, who can guide you to make the best decisions to protect your Mom, and you.
What I've found in the mice maze adventure that is dealing with Medicaid, is that many of the rules aren't clear to figure out. Your mom's PNA $ can be withdrawn by you if your her DPOA & used to buy her clothes, toiletries, pay on a low cost premium funeral policy. NH biz office should have a ledger just for this purpose.
Some NH have charges that are not covered by Medicaid - like in room phone or cable - and those monthly charges are taken from the PNA. Other NH have them on weekly beauty shoppe visits and the PNA gets spent that way.
But other NH's just let the $ sit. Problem is that it builds up $ each month and then becomes a problem for Medicaid eligibility as moms assets go over 2k. There have been posts on this from family who didn;t understand the PNA system and the Nh went and bought mom an expensive wheelchair to get her over 2K PNA down to under $ 100.
Before you get all upset with the NH, go to biz office and review her PNA funds from her first month @ the NH. If she has been there for a while, it could well be that the NH had mom spend $ 200 or whatever on an outing so she's totally under the asset limit for Medicaid.
BTW mom does NOT have to have her income go to the NH directly. Mom could continue to have a checking account with a check written each mo to the NH for her co-pay and you let the PNA build in her account each mo. I did it this way for my mom at both NH mom was in. Now some NH will press on family for the direct deposit/making NH payee as its easier on all. But they cannot make you do it this way. But if payments are late, there will be late fees that you (not mom) owes. If you miss a payment, mom can be taken off Medicaid. So only go this route if you can be totally all-in for making mom's co-pay to the NH like clockwork.
If you spend those funds on her behalf for clothes, toiletries, personal items, etc., then, they should reimburse you. The total has to be kept down under a certain amount or she may lose her eligibility.
If the facility has her funds in trust, they have to keep a record and provide it to the POA upon request. Usually, Medicaid will ask for a copy at least once a year for their review of her eligibility.
I try to keep up with this spending- I buy slippers, shoes, glasses,clothes by the ton. It is HARD to buy stuff when they are in the NH- but they will tell you how to spend it!
You can become your mother's representative payee for SS. Go to the Soc. Sec. website and find out how.
I opened a separate account in my name where I deposited mom's money and I used it SOLELY for her benefit. I don't have any receipts except what I might have done on my credit card. I withdraw her monthly allowance from the nursing home and I deposit it in an investment account (separate from my funds) which will be used for her final expenses. I paid for her plot myself, I spend over $500 a month of my own $ for her to have a private aide, I buy all her replacement clothes myself (I am not stealing her money), but I take her trust money from the NH and put it in an acct in my own name. If it came to it, I could prove that I spent many times her trust money on things for her, but to make things easier, I have "her" money in my name, since I'm the person accessing it.
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