Can people with dementia have what they call "show-timer's?"

All I can say is thank heavens I am not alone in this! This site has saved my sanity many times. My Mother will gladly throw me under the bus if it means she will get some attention. So strange. Her social skills are all but gone but she still loves to gossip and LOVES to gossip to other family members about family members. I have never been interested in gossip - who really cares - but I guess with her diminishing brain capabilities it is something to talk about. One of my favorite quotes is "Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people." Makes sense as our brains do get smaller as we age. So most of the time I do not even pay it any attention. When she embarrasses me in front of sales people I just keep quiet. They don't know that she has dementia because for others she puts on a big act. Her favorite thing now is telling everyone that I was "supposed to be a boy" and that is why she did not get her tubes tied after she had my brother. So Mean!! It is hard not to tell her if I had been the "boy" she so wanted there would not be anyone taking care of her right now. Like a lot of women my Mothers age - she is 89- she thinks that men are going to take care of everything. OK??? That has sure not been my experience. Hug to all

Madeea, what an awful experience! I just can't even imagine how embarrassing, frustrating and scarey it must have been... Sounds like a hospital eval might be a really good idea! I hope this week is much better. ((((((hugs))))))

What an embarrassing mortifying experience I had the other day. I gave up everything I own, my life I knew to come and take care of my mother, it was hell getting to Ireland from USA, selling my car, giving my furniture away, and the myriad of hoops I had to jump through. I also had to take my cat, talk about hoops. Anyhow, it is more than frustrating to see her act somewhat sane to others, believe me, she has problems, they think I am mean and she is fine. She tells people a lot of stories. Anyhow, she went to the neighbor's house and forgot to take her keys, I was laying down and didn't hear the door, she calls the police and then the show started. She was shrieking at me that I locked her out and didn't want me in the house, that I was mean and hit her. I can tell you that I think I am the crazy one and it is beyond frustrating, you tell people and they don't believe you. So, the police tell me I have to leave they take me to the station and tell me I can not go back to the house. I have nowhere to go, they took me out in pajamas and robe and put me in a holding cell till they can arrange a place for me to go, that was a homeless shelter, oh my God, what a horrible experience. I didn't sleep all night there, had to call her and she didn't remember anything, when I told her I was in jail and hostel, she laughed! This is dangerous for me. She spent the time going through my drawers, and go into the loced closet that I locked to keep my paperwork from being hidden by her. She took the money I had in there, plus the credit card, how can she be so mentally feeble, but yet so manipulive and sneaky. Anyhow, she called her doctor and the public health nurse came by, she felt my mother should go into the hospital to be evaluated, plus give me some space. So, how do you like this craziness, Thankfully I have this forum to help me know I am not cuckoo.

Has anyone ever tried videotaping the person during the behavior nobody believes? My mom doesn't do the changing behavior for other people, but she would frequently do this Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde thing with me. She would be sweet and loving and more like her normal self, leave the room for something, and come back a completely different person. She even walked differently, with her arms held stiffly at her side like when wrestlers face off, and she would give me the evil eye, like she just hated me, and make some accusation like, "Where is it?" (Where is what?" I would foolishly ask) "You know. Where did you put it?"....and so on, or she would just glare at me and if I asked her what's wrong, she'd say, "You know perfectly well what's wrong.", or, "You never do anything for anything for anybody." etc. and she would tell me to "shut up" if I disagreed with her. I often wished I had a hidden camera to document this behavior (because she denied it when I would tell her how she treated me) and play it back to her to prove to her it was true. Then I'd think, what the heck, she would just watch it and then say, "That's not me. I didn't do that. I would NEVER act that way. It must be someone who looks like me." I'm speaking in the past tense because, (knock on wood, I hope I'm not speaking too soon about this) she is not doing that very much any more. Her doctor recently put her on Risperidone (adding to Lexapro, Namenda, and Aricept, that she was already taking) and it seems to have relieved her severe mood swings and she is generally more sweet and relaxed and easy going now. (Whew!!!)

Anyway, back to the videotape idea. My mom wouldn't have believed it even if she saw it, but perhaps your relatives, the doctor, etc. will believe you when they actually see it.

PaleBlueDot I don't think the lying is deliberate, I just think it's what they think is true. I also don't think it's not really, crazy for the same reason. It took me a while to realize these things. Now, imagine you put a book down on a table and there are only two people in the room you and another person, then you get distracted by a phone call and while your on the phone you pick up the book and move it to another place, but because you were talking on the phone you forget you moved the book. Then you hang up the phone and go to get the book, you go to the table you were sure you left the book on and it's not there. Who are you going to blame? The only other person there because you don't remember moving it. Then that person say's I didn't touch the book. Then you see the book in the place you moved it and suddenly you recall while on the phone you moved it. The only difference is you can remember your actions after you find the book but a person who suffers dementia may still think someone else did it because they don't recall doing it themselves and they also get paranoid, so they may think you do these things just to make them feel crazy. You can not change how the dementia affects them so you have to change how it affects you.
Another story.... One day Mom had a delusion that my boss was picking her up for a lunch date....she was already to go and waiting in one spot looking out the window. I asked what she was doing and that's what she told me, I just said Oh OK... then thought... wow, maybe I can get stuff done in the house. So sometime went by I asked again... she was still in that spot same reason. OK cool I got some stuff done, then I had to go to work that afternoon. I though OMG how an I going to get her in my car without an argument??? UMMM??? I got an idea... I called a friend without Mom knowing...I asked her to call back pretend she was my boss. She did...then I answered and pretended her date was stuck and needed help that's why he wasn't there yet. I said on the phone "oh yes we will come help you!" It worked she hurried to the car.... Then she forgot 5 minutes later all about the date and said "Where are we going?" This works sometimes but sometimes she knew I was pretending or didn't trust me.

Kiba, at my church many of the folks thought I was exaggerating my mom's dementia until she started referring to me as her friend since we were in first grade together! Lol So many people are really taken in by those coping skills!

Many people with dementia have coping and masking skills in place that they've honed very well by the time it becomes obvious to anyone else that there is a problem. We knew that my dad was 'slipping' for a few years, but we didn't really know ALL that was 'slipping'. Now it it obvious not just to us but others in the community. Happily we live in a small town in a rural area and everyone has been more than kind and generous. The cashiers at the store, the tellers at the bank, everyone knows him by name and will chat with him, even when THEY know that he's not sure what he's talking about. However, for a few years it was not obvious to others that he had memory problems, so we've had those issues, too. My grandmother was the same way; the dr's at the ER saw nothing wrong with her cognitive abilities, so saw no reason to include my aunt when discussing her treatment. It can be very aggravating, and even dangerous, until the primary physician can start to see what is going on. It IS a survival skill that the person with dementia develops in order to cope with a world that is slipping sideways and out of their control.

Between the delusions and confusion many dementia patients have its easy to feel they are just being mean or lying, but their minds just aren't working right. It can be so frustrating, but much of the time they just can't think straight so we have to find ways to reduce their stress and our stress... Not an easy task which makes supporting each other here so precious...

The constant out right lying gets to me. I wish they could just go on being crazy without so much lying.

I remembered something I need to share here.... My Mom was in a "mental heath...behavioral health"... hospital was transported by ambulance from there to the NH. On the first full day the Social Worker calls me and says she had a very nice long talk with her, and then the SW asked me why is she there? I was not sure I understood the question. (My mom is physically fine) so I said "what do you mean?" SW says "well I know your her Representative/Responsible Party but who are you to her?" I said "her daughter!" She said "Oh????!!!!!... Well!!!! she said she dose not have any children??? I said.... "Now ("DUH") YOU know why she is there?" I was just glad Mom didn't tell her I was stealing her stuff or in jail (she always tells people I went to jail) or some other crazy story.

I use this quote all the time - it will become more and more valuable to all of us as we progress down this difficult path with our elders: Blessed are the flexible, for they shall not get bent out of shape.

Darcy123,
I totally get what you are saying!
Been thru that, too.
Sometimes, there is just no good way to resolve other family members who think they know better.
Keep sticking to the bit about letting the Doc decide what is best for Mom, since it is his business to know her health issues and how to best help those.
IT is fairly common for other family to blame the caregiver for causing the health issues, causing the trip to the ER, causing the [insert problem].
YET, those same family members will most often refuse to be a caregiver for that elder.
It is VERY common for an elder to become more confused upon moving to a different care venue
...whether it is a group home, a facility, another family member's home, or to a different room in the same house..
SOME elders gradually get better, but others remain worse in their dementia progress once moved.
It is a rotten thing to happen, but it is NO-one's fault.
It is the fault of the dementia.

If a Doc or other professional has said an elder needs cared for in a facility, or group home, etc., due to dementia, ==take their word for it==!!!
It is fairly hard to get professionals to diagnose it in the first place
--it has to be serious enough for professionals to even notice it for them to diagnose it, and recommend a move to a care home facility.

Sooozi, LUCKYDOG55,

Yep--our elders can really fool people who are not around them,
and even some they are around!

You are in such great company here!
So right:
we NEED validation, to help keep our sanity intact.

If we have no support persons who can do that for us,
or worse, if family, friends, etc. get sucked into the demented person's manipulations, thinking the caregiver is the wicked one,
the caregiver can lose what sanity they had, in fairly short order.

Mom has suffered from undiagnosed [to her kids' knowledge] mental illnesses all her life, triggered by her early childhood traumas, etc.
These conditions are things her family knew of, but tried to work around, while continuing to worry about her, and struggling to avoid having her labeled--in those days, it was really really bad, to have a psych tag.

She herself, admitted to one of my friends, while here, that she felt she was "a little bipolar" [really? like "a little pregnant"?!],
but would never admit that to a Doc or other family,
as she was terrified of the treatments she might be forced to take
[she was remembering electroshock therapy, frontal lobotomies, and the nasty drug side effects from the 1950's and before].
She also exhibited split personalities with fear and anger issues.

She refused to see Docs unless there was something drastically, physically wrong; no one diagnosed her, and she got no constructive help for any of it.
Compounded by substance abuses and other problems.

So I finally got her convinced to see a Doc, for an annual exam a second time, because we'd gotten notice her previous one from previous year had moved elsewhere--- "...good idea, because of how insurance is, to have a Primary Care Doc updated".

I wrote a letter to be entered into her chart, described Mom's behaviors, addictions, etc.,
and to PLEASE avoid giving her narcotic pain pills, since she has, in the past, been suicidal; has, for years, spoken about being about to die, and while staying with us, spoken of suicide again.
I made this a letter, instead of trying to buttonhole the Doc before her appointment, since I wished to preserve what was left of Mom's sense of self, etc.; I have always known how sensitive she has been about all these things--not to mention how epically angry and violent she can become when she feels crossed in any way.

So in her appointment, she suddenly flips into her "flirty girl" personality, full-tilt.
Manipulating for pain killers,
"just in case; after all, I am over 80 years old, I should be able to have some on hand, just in case!"
[she started to slip into her "end of the world as we know it" schpiel, but cut herself off just in time.].
[[eyelashes batting, head tilted down looking out from under her thinned eyelashes, coy smiles and chuckles, higher-pitched teen girl voice, swinging feet, etc]].
She never mentioned narcotics, but danced all around it, so I told the Doc,
"I think she means narcotic pain killers, Doc";
Mom didn't skip a beat, just continued with her show.
Doc excused himself for a moment to check on something.
He returned and wrote her a script, showing it briefly to me, then handing it to Mom.
She kept up the flirting.
She thanked him.
She thot she was getting a narcotic pain reliever.
[[when she was not looking, I faced the Doc and mouthed words "thank you!!!!" for his not writing a narcotic script]]
We went to the car.
She shoved the script at me, suddenly a different personality, saying "I do not know what this is, do you?"
Stupid here, so easy to get the truth out of,
---I shoulda played dumb.
But I failed to grab that moment
....instead, I told her it was "a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory--kinda like ibuprofen".
She immediately flipped into her angry-betrayed-bully-mode,
yelling, cussing, and crumpling that script into a wad and throwing it on the floorboards [she was unable to manage turning the handle to open the window, or it woulda been litter].
She continued to erupt anger the rest of the afternoon; when we got home, she cloistered in her room for a couple days, barely coming out to get food or let her potty get dumped..
Much muttering.
After 2 days, she occasionally came out to ask a question/opinion to see if I thot it was inappropriate the Doc refused her request.
I told her, I thought the Doc was being entirely appropriate,
after all, those pills he scripted were able to help with pain, which was what she'd asked for.
I later found she had rescued that script, and carried it in her purse for over a year-when it became expired....
THEN she asked if we could get it filled---
I had to tell her, now she'd need to go back to the Doc to get another one, as this was expired.
"WHAAAT?! Since when do these things expire?!?!? THEY NEVER EXPIRED WHEN I WAS IN NURSING!!!"
"Sorry, Mom, prescriptions expire at most, in 1 year, or less, depending on what it is for, and scripts have had expiration dates for over 40 years. "
She refused to go back to the Doc.

Sometime later in her stay here, the State made Medicinal MJ more easily available.
Since people cannot commit suicide on that,
and since it controls pain,
and helps with sleep, breathing, etc., which helped her do a bit more physical mobility; and
after much study on it, I asked if she wanted to try that.
She said she might, so we went thru the hoops required to get it. .
In small bottle, in liquid form.

The good part:
She got relief from all her physical and some emotional ailments with that: --pain, short breath, sleep disorder, anxiety, gastrointestinal troubles, etc..
Her mood lifted: she no longer talked of being about to die, or about stockpiling pills "to have a way out" [she could be a drama queen epic "Eeyore", but since she had tried suicide at least once that I knew of, it is to be monitored ever after].
BUT,
it failed to stop her dementia getting worse,
the only relief from her angry outbursts was when she was actually using the drops.
When not using it, she continued to flip from one personality to another, as well as cycle fairly fast between depressive and manic states,
as well as having repeated and escalating anger episodes that could last for hours.
Those did get relief, WHEN she was using that liquid.

AND, for a bit, she felt like she was in control...
--she was getting away with something
--she felt a little bit more autonomous

While this might not be something others might try,
it worked for Mom, for the rest of the time she was at our house.
She moved out of State, so can no longer get it.
Since she usually and historically, refuses regular pharmaceuticals, or fails to use them properly, that liquid was a good option for her-
--she got relief, yet caused no harm doing it.
I have yet to hear from anyone else's experience with it, so can only share her results with it.

Blessings on Caregivers!
A task not for the faint of heart.
The more we can help each other learn to do the job better,
the better we can validate,
the better we ourselves can survive to tell the tails.

{{{hugs!}}}
Chi

I this same problem sometimes. My mom seems to do this when my siblings are around. She can sound perfectly sane.... the problem is, she will sometimes say horrible things, about getting hit or other bizarre things. Fortunately she only says these things around my dad and brother. My brother knows better and my dad's hearing is so bad he can't tell WHAT she is saying 1/2 the time. My sister thinks I made her this way?? That if we just took her off ALL of her medications, she would be fine. First of all, I am not her doctor. I can't prescribe medications for her! She is on very few medications at that. She is diabetic, and controlled by oral meds and diet. Other than diabetes medications, she is on one for her heart, one for cholesterol, vitamins, a stool softener, and one med to help with her insomnia as well as a herbal supplement ~ How are those causing dementia symptoms? She is totally convinced that I am using meds to control her and keep her "sick" so that I can just "hang out" and take care of her. Trust me. It would be easier to have a normal 8-5 Job!! People don't get how it is being a caregiver! I am glad I am able to do this, but wow! It is a challenge~

Also, working in a nursing home, there were people that would come in and be totally confused! The families of a couple couldn't wait to get them back home...ALONE! I was like, are you serious?? I guess at home in their normal environment they were almost completely normal~ It was only in new situations that you even noticed the behaviors or dementia~

Go figure.

I have to say that several times I have sat down with my mom and pointed out what she has done. I tell her that my only goal is to ask her to be kind and respectful. After sharing actual examples and telling her what I expect, she does try ... for a few days, sometimes for a few weeks. While I often think I need to suffer in silence, when I feel calm enough to address these issues with her unemotionally, I notice that she does try. I think that the conversation makes her attempt to bring the same energy to our interactions that she typically reserves for strangers and doctors. I'm guessing this will deteriorate over time, but for now, those calm conversations seem to be working. I also try not to do it often... only once in 3 to 4 weeks. The key is to remain calm, unemotional and to treat her with kindness and respect that I'm asking her for... (it's been a big mistake for me to address things immediately when they happen or when I'm hurt or upset... I should never, ever, ever talk to her in that condition... because then you could say I'm behaving just exactly the way I don't want her to behave.)

WOW!!! I was thinking it was just me, others laugh when I tell them what Dad/Mom did or said but for me I took their actions as personal and serious. I guess I'll just laugh and not take my Parents behavior so personal and serious. Thanks for this post and thanks all for sharing.

Thankfully, I'm not there yet, so the only thing I can think of is recording the behavior maybe.

Momsdauhter2, that's exactly what I did with my mom- notes to the doctor "prime the pump" for understanding what's really going on with mom.

I think that's lot of times the elders don't purposely try to be difficult, but that they lose their "governor" and don't have the control of their behavior which they used to have and aren't capable of smoothly communicating what they need. I wish I had understand this when I was younger. Everyone stopped visiting my grandmother because she complained about nobody visiting her every time they visited. If I'd only known to say, "grandma, it sounds like you really get lonely", she would probably have agreed and been able to enjoy the visit!

Avid reader, I love how you used the "I" statement about your feelings with your mom. By communicating your feeling, instead of just saying you can't talk to me that way, it isn't so attacking to the other person. Good job! :-)

My mother in law is soo good at this. She wont even allow my father in law to go into their Dr.'s office alone just in case he wants to discuss her memory loss with the Dr. It took 2 years for us to convince my brother in law that she had a problem. AND she is very good at deflecting. She will convince Dr.'s that her memory loss is because she is stressed because other family members are sick.

I work for a senior community. When adult children came in with their mom or dad for a tour, I used to be shocked by how often I would see unmistakable symptoms of dementia in their parent that they seemed completely unaware of.
Despite all the ALZ awareness campaigns, many people don't see the tell-tale signs that their own family member is having serious cognitive issues. I think it's because parents naturally put on their best face for their child. They instinctively go into parenting mode and that masks some of the behaviors that provide the clues that something is wrong.
I'm still no 'expert' in detecting dementia. Some people are so gifted in putting up a good facade. I once had a long conversation with a new resident about my son's college search. We chatted in detail. She even gave me advice and some good recommendations for essay topics. The next day I saw her and struck up a conversation again. She had no idea who I was or, even when reminded, that we had spoken.
One thing I've learned is that a person with dementia is like a snowflake; there are lots of similarities, but no two manifest the disease exactly alike.

avidreader - I am so glad to hear your story. I have taken to not spending to much time with mother because she is always complaining. It has been quite some time since she has said much of anything positive. Sort of makes you feel like a "failure" when all she can do is complain about everything you are doing to make her comfortable and happy. Nothing seems to work. So - thank you for your story! It helps alot!

Marciwriter, What my sister and I do is hand the nurse a note ahead of when the Dr. Comes in the room telling him what is really going on with my mom. He reads it before he gets into the room where my mother is waiting for him. Then we just sit there and keep quiet and he handles everything. This has worked out great........ so far. Good luck.

sounds like dad. he loves to throw me under the bus to make himself look good, everybody ' oh i cant see him behaving like that hes so nice' yeah till you live with him!
oh yeah, they still have brain cells, i think its kind of their only form of entertaiment anymore, theyre mind is shutting down and preparing to go to the other side, but on this side, it looks like they are reverting back to being a kid. so if they act like a kid, talk to them like a parent. stern, but dont punish them. unlike a kid, they wont learn from mistakes, all you can do is kind of clean up their mess.
what you can do, keep good notes, keep reciepts and pray for strength, you have to bite your tounge a lot, it goes with the job.. people seem to forget that elderly people do this, everyone acts like dad had full brain cell, the strentgh of a 50 year old and he doesnt! it takes all his energy to put on that face for others,but you would think people would listen to you, YOU are the one that sees the real person, and this happens with everyone. i dont get why people seem so shocked when a caregiver says their behavior is different behnd closed doors.hang in there, im learning as i go along too

I have to say how helpful it is for me to read all of the stories here. When I am alone with my mom in this, I sometime feel like she is the one who is really on top of things, smart and manipulative and I am the dim one. When I take a moment to read your stories I can see I share so many of the examples you have written here. Being in the waiting room, in the car with her after a doc appointment with a handsome man, etc, etc. My stories are so painful I hate to recall them, but if your stories were painful to recall... I just want to say a heartfelt thank you to you for sharing, because you made me feel less alone... and much more intelligent than I did before I read them! Thank you for being here with me... we all must be reassured that we are OK because the stories are so similar and we should be proud of being kind and helpful!!...

As I'm reading this, I'm wondering if these talented parents are doing it on purpose. I'm just kidding, but it's aggravating to live with. My mother is absolutely adorable and charming around doctors and waiters, but put her in the car with me, and it's fireworks. I really don't understand why the split personalities develop. My guess is that it's easier to dump on those closest to you. My strategy is to exit as soon as possible and not to engage in any kind of debate. That becomes a lose-lose situation very quickly! Sometimes I call my Mom on her behavior, saying, "I don't feel respected when you talk to me that way." If she doesn't apologize (and often she doesn't), I say, "Well, I think I will have to leave now. Maybe we can talk later more calmly." It seems to be working. However, if I'm tired or stressed, it's much more difficult! I hope this help you.

I am so glad to read all of this. My mother drives me crazy when she acts normal to others and not to me. If I tell her something, it is wrong. If someone else tells her the same thing she does it and acts like they know everything. She also lies to everyone about everything in order have a good story and no one knows what is real. They think she is so adorable and sharp. They think she is sane and I am an idiot. When we get home, she has no clue what was happening or even who the people were or where we went. My mother is 92 and I take care of her 24/7.

It always amazes me how so many people don't pick up on the dementia their family members have. I have several friends who tell me their mom's are very alert; but if you have spent much time with people with dementia, you can see the signs so clearly! And doctors are often slow to pick up on it because they don't realize that what the patient is telling them is not fact... My mom would tell her doctor that she spent her days reading, writing letters, working on the computer.. long after she was able to do any of those things!

Since my aunt Ami (95) is 100% compliant in front of her doctor, I asked him to write her a "prescription" for a weekly bath. She gushed over it, thanked him profusely for the 'reminder,' and then, when we were in the car, ripped it to shreds. "Who is that idiot to tell me to take a bath? I take a bath every morning." Some days later, when I got her into the bathroom for a sponge bath, she was horrified. Oh, no, we'd have to wait till the weather was better, till she was well, on and on. I said the doctor called, he wants you to get cleaned up. Without missing a beat, Ami said, "I know. He called again. He said 'not yet.'" I fell down laughing. I know what you mean about how they fool others. At a dinner, Ami had an entire table of people convinced that she had cooked the meal. When she saw me smiling at her description of how hard the desserts had been, she grinned and shrugged as if to say, "Well, if they want to believe it. . ."

In a desperate attempt to hold on to what the person feels is slipping away, which is frightful to them , I am sure that this is a survival tactic. Frustrating for the caregiver, I am sure that is AS frustrating to hold it together when needed for the person. It seems like a kind of "letting their hair down " when they return to their home base. Perhaps SLOWLY introducing help or support now is a way to do it instead of any drastic changes in threatening independence....

deewayland,
Good luck and a hug.