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My mother (with Alzheimers) placed my father (with early dementia) in an ALF without consulting with any of the four children. She is not visiting regularly, doesn't return calls from the ALF, isn't seeing that his needs are met and she has aligned herself with other individuals who are likely to take advantage of her. We want to ensure the best longterm care for both of them. We wonder if she even had the legal right to place him there. In home assistance would have been a better decision at this stage.

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People do not have the right, legal or otherwise to send anyone, anywhere.
The disability laws of 1992 make it so...

If the father/husband is in an ALF, then the mother/wife should be in one too,
they both need help, you know the old adage what is good for the goose is good for the gander? too bad she can't see that right now.

We ended up with a mess (siblings, jerky POA's) but are coasting at the present with our 87 year old who still enjoys being home.


Either way they both need help and so does your family
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frustrated2 your parents sound like clones of mine. My mother may have always had some brain disorder (my husband says "temporal lobe syndrome) combined with BPD and malicious narcissism. I tried to be caring but moved thousands of miles away til obviously they were declining. I retired early to return to my home state to watch out for them. Mom was viscous, biting the hands that tried to help. Here's where it gets relevant to clctl87's question. Visiting about a month prior to Mom's death (she would not accept help nor medical intervention and I was too uninformed to even know what guardianship was though I'm not sure I would have wanted to take that on) -- she was being courted by a "Jewish friend" who told Mom if she turned over Mom and Dad's assets to a certain Jewish community, MOM would be taken care of forever. Mom was going to sign over the house. Dad said, "Like hell you are, it's my house too." Mom bit hard into Dad and said she didn't care and didn't give a damn what happened to him. Dad was already advancing with Normal Pressure Hydrocephalus (refused surgery many years before), a sweet, enabling guy who was abused all his life. I instinctively asked Mom "Really ...What about Dad?" and "Do you realize they won't let you smoke there?" (she was a chain smoker). It stopped her cold. Maybe in retaliation, within one week she fell, lay there for two days in her bodily fluids (I mean bad as she had a horrible bleeding ulcer and esophageal hemmorhaging which I didn't know either), rushed to the hospital at 65 pounds (how did she hide that while eating her takeouts with seemingly gusty appetite). Family Protective Services called because Dad simply blanked out and didn't call an ambulance til Mom in some bout of non-delerium told him to days later. She also had contracted a bad UTI, that went into her bloodstream. Needless to say the guilt I felt and still feel is so very tremendous. Maybe let authorities do what they must do. Let professionals more skilled in dealing with things make recommendations. Consult an elder care attorney. If possible, also consult a social worker at a local Area Agency on Aging if you cannot afford to privately pay. Get objective as best you can. We the Borderlined have been trained and brain synapsed to serve the bossy mother til the bitter end, even if the Empress wears no clothes. Allow outer lights to shine on the sick situation and prepare for quite a ride. But that you are writing to ask, shows you sense the craziness. You are going to be well, and come out o.k. Be strong. You won't be alone here. My thoughts to you.
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I am thinking of my own NPD, 79 year old mother who has never been able to see 'the log in her own eye' - ever. My dad has told me privately that he thinks she has Alzheimers, because she is so difficult. While I think she has gotten worse, if I follow HIS logic, then she's had A. ever since I was born, because she has a) never had to take an ounce of responsibility or had a job b) he spoiled her and created a monster and now he is living with 62 years of that. My dad is your classic co-dependent spouse, making excuses and denying. At his 80th birthday party (I was the only siblings of 5 not invited because she was mad at me for telling her not to gossip to me about my sister in a previous conversation so I missed this milestone to which 40 people received engraved invitations!) she went around making a joke about remarrying 'when Daddy dies'. She has always acted like a victim and even when she destroys HIM with her acid tongue he tells me why it isn't her fault!
Several years ago while they were visiting, we got a phone call that her aunt/ my great aunt passed away at 97. Her frail husband had died a few years earlier. While we were all digesting this news, my mother began telling me that she didn't think her aunt missed Uncle ____ and she didn't think "i'll miss Daddy when he dies". I cannot believe how everything is always all about her! I could see her doing this to my father and she is the one who needs to be locked up! But their interwoven, co dependent relationship and the fact that they have the money to be bossy about what they want to do (they threaten removing anyone who crosses them with writing them out of the will! After 3 threats, I told them I never want one dime of theirs and I am disowning MYSELF and to leave me alone. My husband backed this up with my dad and thankfully we are living in peace and quiet now!). But my siblings are feeding into this disaster. They live on acreage in a huge house and I can just imagine the nightmare to come. It is also very difficult to get a fairly large group of siblings to agree on anything. They seem to want to run the show and they can have it!
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I agree with the people who suggest consulting with an attorney. I am, in particular, worried about the people with whom your mom has aligned because they likely do not have her best interests at heart. In fact, if I were to suggest a solution, I would say that both your parents might do well in an assisted living facility given that they both have early-stage Alzheimer's. I suppose people in early stages can be at home but unless the children or closest family members are totally on top of the situation, the ADLOs stay at home beyond the point at which they can care for themselves and/or are safe.
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In the early stages they are still capable of making rational decisions. Speaking from experience get together with your siblings and start helping out to take care of them both.
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Unless your mother has been declared incompetent by a court with doctors reporting, then she can still make those decisions. Don't be alarmed by her not visiting her husband as it probably is very hard to see him with dementia and she is facing her own demise. Be supportive and help her anyway you can!
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You might have to look at the situation from a different angle. There is a chance that your mother can't handle her own changes and thinks that it's in the best interest for your dad to be away. Considering that she did not talk to kids before making that decision, she might be resistant to accept her own AD changes and, for some reason, does not want to talk to you and your siblings. She might be afraid to acknowledge it if suspects you will do the same to her -- placing her to facility for demented residents. Though, she knows she can't take care of your dad at present time. You really need to listen to her, listen to dad... and listen to an eldercare Atty!
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pamstegman is right, you all need an eldercare attorney and you need one NOW. Your family needs to have both medical and financial Power of Attorney for both parents as well as their HIPPA forms, and you need to know what insurance they have - for example, do they have longterm care insurance and is it currently up to date in payments and if so, has it been invoked for your father's care? I also agree that it is unlikely that your mother could have placed your father without the recommendation of a doctor. The doctor likely diagnosed some form of dementia. That can be very difficult to deal with at home as some dementia patients become violent or are up all night and at risk of wandering off. They might also drive off in their confusion and wind up in another state or even another country.
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She didn't just dump him at the curb, his MD would have recommended it and the ALF would have done an evaluation as well. Stand by their decision and help her as best you can. Four children should be deeply involved, going to MD visits, helping pay bills and arrange care of the house and property. Given they are both declining, you should be talking to an elder law attorney about DPOA and possibly Guardianship. Call the family council together. If you put this off until they are both disoriented, it becomes a real mess.
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I agree with jeannegibbs. Consult with an elder law attorney.

I'm wondering how your mom got your dad to go into the facility. He had to have gone willingly.

But let's say that your family decides that he shouldn't be there. Or a lawyer decides he shouldn't be there. What's next for him? He can't go home because your mom is unwilling to care for him. The AL may be the best place for him.
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Neither have been judged in court to be incompetent. Both are only in beginning stages. Mother has never been strong emotionally so she couldn't cope with changes in his personality and behavior. She would not accept suggestions for in home help or let children help.
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Has your mother ever been judged to be incompetent? Has your father?

I think that your best bet at this point is to consult an attorney who specializes in Elder Law, who can advise you about legality of what has happened, and also suggest what options are open to you now. One of those options might be guardianship.

You may know what is truly best for each of your parents, but how much and what you can do about it is a legal question, which you should get competent legal advice about.
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