My parents are both 76 and went down hill this past November. How do I get them in the car to go into skilled nursing facility?

I heard about a spy camera detector on one of those computer radio shows over the weekend. They sell them on Amazon for under $20. I just read up on them and they don't do a great job of it, but they look very official. Is there any possibility that this device would help? It's a little black box with lights and an antenna, very official looking! :)

How about 'buying' some gadget that 'will pick up any survaillance cameras' - anything will do that has a few lights etc but can do a 'responce' - this shows you are taking their concerns as serious to them & may calm them down - say it is a smaller gadget than the ones used in embassies against XXX [who ever they think is worst Russia/Cuba/ U.S.A etc] - this could also improve your own stature in their eyes because you did something concrete which might help on a later battle

Remember that we are fighting a war & sometimes losing a battle can win the war or losing a battle in their defense can give you a promotion to general in their eyes - hope this helps & if it does then lets us all know with details in case we need ourselves at a later date

I agree with others saying to pick your battles. I have found after having to move my dad to four different levels of care (am going to be moving him into LTC this week) it always took about 3 months for him to fully adjust. It took about 2 months while he was in rehab SNF. I have no illusions that this next move won’t also take time. Whenever someone with dementia is moved it is hard on them. I wished it weren’t so. I will not be getting him a phone if I can avoid it. Otherwise he will call me for everything he wants the nurses to do.

September: I actually had to pull my mother aside and say "You have an odor about you so would you rather hear it from me, your daughter or your best friend?" I'm sorry, but I could no longer escort her to toilet because the smell just about knocked me over. Perhaps APS could help your parents. Idk. Perhaps tell a little white lie, i.e. "The staff said you must bathe because your doctor(s) called and ordered it?"

I lean the way golden23 does, let this go a bit. I would look into some of the suggestions like suggesting they shower in their underwear or checking for UTI in case one of them is having delusions and taking the other along but it sure sounds like both of your parent's have been life long personal hygiene/shower people so it's habit for them and my guess is they wont be able to hold out if it's just rebellion or adjustment. Try not to give it enough power to make you mad or feel the need to punish them. If indeed it is an adjustment thing or even a rebellion it isn't really directed at you even though it feels that way (and yes even though Mom has directed her anger at you) and if you step back and think about it from their perspective it might even be tolerable. I mean they are absolutely where they need to be and you have done the best thing for them you possibly could by placing them there but consider this from the somewhat demented mind of a person who suddenly finds themselves in completely new and different surroundings. In their room at least they feel they have some control over their environment but by the sounds of it they are suddenly having to shower in a shared space, having to carry their toiletries with them each time they shower rather than leaving them set up in their own shower the way they always have and the shower curtain they chose or towel rack to hang the wet towel on. Even a hotel room allows the guest to set up the bathroom they way they want and offers privacy while you are staying there. For some in their late 70's I can see how this might be a big adjustment and a hard change to accept and feel comfortable with. I can even see how their minds might come up with the idea someone is "spying" since in their minds one of the main reasons they are living in this new place is so there is always someone there to "watch out" for them and be their if something happens. It wouldn't surprise me if they have even heard or think they heard someone say the shower is a high risk place for residents and they can be "watched" for falls or emergencies in the shower this way. Fantasizing about cameras monitoring the shower area isn't a big leap, paranoia often comes with dementia.

Again, let me be clear I am not saying in any way shape or form that this is sad or in anyway not the best thing for them but I know I often forget that Mom isn't operating at the same speed and level I am. It often takes her much longer to reason something out especially big ideas/topics than I think it should and when I don't put an expectation on it, let her take as much time as she needs it always goes much better. Give them some time, as much as they need to figure this out for themselves. Maybe having someone from the facility give them a tour, even if they have already and go over the "privacy" rules in the common areas like the shower but somehow making it clear there aren't any cameras (providing that's true) and or encouraging Mom and Dad to ask any questions they might have. Who knows maybe they got this idea from another resident or saw another resident who does have someone watching them shower for safety. But give yourself a break and don't take this personally, give them some time to settle in and adapt. Have the staff try to help them work through it too but unless they ask you, your parents I mean, don't be part of the front line on getting them to shower. Make sure the things you can are being done behind the scenes so to speak but don't give yourself any reason to think them refusing is directly aimed at you even. I mean you could casually ask perhaps if mom wants that special body wash she likes maybe just to open the door for her to bring up concerns with you if you feel that's important but let the facility staff take the heat for trying to get them to shower, not you. By the sounds of it your parents are hard wired to shower on a daily basis and they aren't going to be able to stand not getting a shower, even with sponge baths, for very much longer. Good luck and it bears repeating, ease up on yourself!

Hi september. This may be a temporary thing as part of their rebellion about moving to a facility and/or a dementia related manifestation. I am sure they are not the first residents to react like this. What do the staff suggest? Eventually it may become a health issue. ksordh makes a good point about their pcp ordering showers for health reasons, if that can be done.

Also it might be good to have their meds reviewed and see if there is anything they can be given to help them with this transition.

Lastly I would say relax and try to go with the flow. It doesn't all go away when they enter a facility, but they are better off than they were. Address problems as you can, but somethings are out of your control. ((((((hugs))))))

September607, If their primary doctor orders them showers for health reasons, would that override the facility's ability to refuse to make them. This is a sanitary issue and health risk. I think I would have to look for a different facility.

September, how long have your parents been in the facility?

Which one has the delusion about cameras? I'd treat the delusion as a symptom, first checking for a UTI and perhaps getting a geriatric psych on board if that's not what's causing the issue.

My dad hadn’t had a proper bath or shower in months. His second day in AL the staff got him in the shower. I couldn’t believe it. With Dad you can’t ask, you have to just do it.....C,MON MR K GET THOSE CLOTHES OFF RIGHT NOW!

*Accidentally "trip and spill" something on clothing and hair.
Not nice but may be effective.

*Or, would they bathe with you in the bathroom?

*How about letting them leave their undies on during the shower (but get a soapy washcloth in the important parts) and have them change when back in their own room.

Maybe I should start a new thread, but I'll try this question here...
BOTH of my parents REFUSE to shower at the facility (and no, they are not afraid of the water or the sound). My dad use to take 2-3 showers a day, depending on what he had done during the day, and my mother was and has always been a before bed shower person. Now, neither one of them will take a "real" shower at the facility!! It has been over a week now... they say there are cameras and windows in the showers and people watch them...ummm... no. There are NO windows, and no one is "watching" them. The facility even said they could each sit in the shower room (curtains closed) while the other showers to keep each other feeling safe and comfortable. But they won't do it!
I find myself being angry about this behavior. It's disgusting! I won't bring my children to see them or take them out of the facility until they shower. Their feet stink so bad, as well as other places!
They say that they are sponge bathing in their room and that is all they need... Who are these people that were my parents?! I don't even want to hug them good bye or sit on their bed when I visit bc it's gotten so gross.
Has anyone dealt with this? In the state we live in, they can not be forced to shower, it's their right to refuse and there is nothing I or the facility can do about it. I'm so upset by all of this! Suggestions??

blk2842: I am extending huge condolences on the loss of your mom. I hope you will accept them.

Talkey,


Very direct and honest story. “I did the best I could to keep him safe and cared for”.

I think that describes what most of us do. It’s hard to remember this when your elders are so unhappy.

My mom wants to go home where she would most likely end up dying on the bathroom or kitchen floor. Dad may or may not notice she had fallen.

I get a little stronger and more immune to the complaints each day.

I raised 3 girls, had a nice career, went thru a divorce, and practically hold a degree in potty-training grandchildren, but caring for Dad in my home and then placing him in Memory Care and all that followed were the hardest things I ever did. I visited every day, EVERY DAY, and made 30 trips across town to his house (that he built with mom back in 1958) to go thru more stuff than I thought anyone could accumulate, clean and paint (small ranch, but every room!), and sell the house. All-the-while dealing with some ugly sibling dynamics, and Dad just wanted to be in his home. I tried and could not keep quality, reliable help for what we could afford. After he fell a 2nd time in my home, I realized he was too much for me to handle and needed a staff (who also were mostly much younger) to care for him. Now we are on the other side, having buried Dad just last week. Still lots to do and still dealing with unpleasant sibling dynamics. I question everything that I did and cry every single day. I wish things had been different. I wish he could have stayed in his home or with me, but this way we were able to have some joy, some good times, and I was no longer exhausted. I would probably change some things today, but I did the best that I could to keep him safe and cared for, and I believe that he knew that as he took his last breaths.

If everyday you do your best & the next morning you can look yourself in your eye as you brush your teeth [multi-tasking at its best] then there SHOULD BE NO GUILT WHATSOEVER. - I put a period at the end of that sentence on purpose because in French that is 'pointe finale' & that is what it is when dealing with our loved one with dementia

While we deal with all these issues we all need to remember that not one person in the world is perfect so why do you think you should exceed the standards that are impossible to achieve - so who can caste the first stone? - when family members question you then say that quite literally to them

I would also let all family members know that they are encouraged to do helpful feedback & that it's truly welcomed because you may get something or some information that will help BUT any family member who bitches [just to make themselves seem important or just bitches to bitch] without being helpful then he/she has just volunteered to help you with your loved one - so bring out your daytimer & ask which of 2 times they would like best suit them ... if they don't pony then they can't bitch again until they fulfill that obligation & LET THE WHOLE FAMILY KNOW WHO IS RENEGING - it won't happen twice & if it does then they just volunteered for your respite vacation

We have to stop walking on egg shells for those who have blinders on & who throw their weight around needlessly - we need to make a stand here & now just as the 'me too' & other movements go forth as the ground is fertile for this type of discussion - recently [& sorry I forget who] one of the award winners actually thanked all the caregivers but that was not taken up much ... & why not - is it because we are generally female [sorry to those gentlemen who do so too] for the most part & we are older so we are no longer active, at our best [who would be with all we need to do] looks wise nor are we vocal because of the time we need to take doing our caregiving duties [read invisible] but this forum should be at the forefront of making our stand that the line 'THAT SHOULD NOT BE CROSSED IS NEAR'

I HOPE I HAVE OFFENDED ENOUGH OF YOU TO MAKE YOU SIT UP & DO SOMETHING NOW - I know many of you won't like my phrasing about 'bitching' but that is what many of our families do so why aren't we saying it instead of skirting the issue - let's stand up now in a united way that we are at least as important as our older loved ones so why are so many of us sacrificing our own lives, happiness, retirement savings, life persuits & wishes to make our loved ones more comfortable than we, as a whole, will ever be

I know because I live in Canada that all the years of work my parents did & money they earned & saved won't be drained into a FOR PROFIT HEALTH SYSTEM like some other countries [notably the U.S.A. but others too] nor do I need to worry about how much my parents spent in last 5 years or to whom or how much of the house that a medi-something agency will allow a spouse to keep so they have a roof over their heads - so well those issues I don't have to deal with however I still have how to deal with an 92 year old brain injured [read dementia etc] mother -

This is just as emotionally wearing but the financial issues are not as much as many I read about here & my heart goes out to those with the 2 burdens - I feel for so many of you that you have both issues to deal with & I thank Tommy Douglas [Keifer Sutherland's grandfather who was declared by the populous of Canada as our greatest Canadian EVER] for his legacy of our health care system - I am thankful every day for his influence in keeping our country strong & healthy

Sorry [what else would a Canadian say?] to have got on my bandbox but I am passionate about some things & if nothing else I hope to have made you all more aware that things can be done in other ways & still be a viable option - I keep you all in my thoughts & hope you all can emerge as stronger people by your tests of fire

SueC1957: Kudos going out to you! I, too, will hope that someone treats me when I am out of my mind.

September keep your chin up, moms words are just her expression of anger. You have nothing to be forgiven for, for making sure they are well taken care of, safe, fed, warm and properly medicated you will be Blessed, this is how you honor your parents in these most difficult situations. Maybe you and hubby can plan a weekend away to help you break the habit of worrying yourself sick. Nothing like a fun adventure to help ease anxiety.

God Bless You for caring enough about your parents to be the "bad guy", sometimes someone has too.👍

(((((((september)))))) There is no need for daily phone calls from staff. It s their job to manage your parents. I agree with talking with a head staff and clarifying this. I get calls which average maybe once every few months - lost hearing aid, change in meds, wrong meds given, need different size clothing. all practical things some of which require action by me, some just for information. I have never had a call about her behaviour and mother has borderline personality disorder and vascular dementia and had not been easy at times. You need a break and I am not surprised you are pissed off. You should be. Your hub and sis are right - they are being paid $$$$$'s to do the job and they should do it.

I am not surprised that you are the "bad guy" to your parents. It comes with the territory. I suspect they will get over it. One notable phone call from mother left me a voice mail saying that "I know what you are doing and God will get you for this." I got three calls a day from her during that period and all were abusive. it was very difficult. I finally let them go to voicemail and briefly checked them to see if there were any real issues. It was stressful, You need to do some good things for you in the middle of all this

Yes September, maybe set up some ground rules with staff about what warrants a phone call. Just guessing, but maybe they see you there every day and assume you want to be informed and involved in all things mom and dad.

I’m just a couple weeks ahead of you in this process.  We’re on week five I think.  I stayed around for about 2 weeks but began drawing back every day. I got to know key staff folks and saw how the place operated.

I’m 600 miles away. The staff has called me twice. Once to report on mom’s last fall/er trip and once to report on dads hitting staff/er trip. Otherwise I call for a brief update every few days. Sometimes that’s just a short text back and forth.

I haven’t talked to mom in several days. I should call her but I dread it.

Just keep plugging away. Everyone has adjustments to make. It’s never going to be perfect or without worry and hassles but it’s a hell of a lot better than having our folks stumbling around falling down houses on their own.

Well, September607, we are all dying to know how things will eventually work out!

Why on earth is the nursing home calling you? Darn right you do NOT have to take multiple calls, this is their problem to deal with now, and you shouldn't be there every single day, either.   Please, have a talk with the social worker or the head nurse, it is not very professional of them to NOT DO THEIR JOB. They shouldn't be calling you unless there is a REAL emergency. Maybe your parents need some anxiety meds......good luck, please report back here!

Thank you all!
My parents had to be moved to the locked side of the facility, for various reasons... I'm pretty sure you can imagine most of the reasons. I helped move them today, it was a hard day. My dad doesn't believe the reasons for why they were moved, and my mother told me to pray for forgiveness for what I've done to them.
This is a nightmare for them, and us.
I've literally been at the nursing home every single day, since moving them in. If I'm not there, then the nursing home is calling me. My husband and sister said that they are being paid HUGE dollars to care for our parents, and they need to stop calling me to intervene. For the next 2 days unless someone has an accident, I'm not taking their calls (the nursing home calls). I have mixed feelings about this... but he staff needs to start doing what they said they would do in our meeting the other day, and stop relying on me to come running! I'm actually pissed about all the calls...

September, you still out there? How’s it going?

blk2842: Wow-how acrimonious.

September607: You did the right thing. You had an over-the-top challenge. Big hugs ((( ))). You went through "heck in a hand basket." And you survived!

It was a long process to get my two friends into the memory care apartment I found for them. They made me their power of attorney for all their finances and health care decisions Labor Day of 2013. That's when I started visiting assisted living places in the area to learn about them, find out what they cost, look at the memory care apartments. I went to 8 or 9 places and only found one that had a choice of a two bedroom, one bedroom, or efficiency apartment on the memory care level. They had to go as a married couple and stay together. I took them there twice to try it out while I would be out of town, but the husband wouldn't hear of it. His short term memory issues prevented him from understanding how his wife was deteriorating with her frontal temporal dementia. They had had their licenses revoked but kept on driving. I had started taking them grocery shopping and to all their appointments, but had to call adult protective services for advice on what to do about their continued driving. When the rep. came to interview them, she asked the husband what he thought they should do with their car if they could no longer drive. He replied "Sell it and get some money out of it." At that point he gave up the keys he had refused to give to me previously and I moved their car to a friend's garage until we could sell it. The husband continued to be unable to understand what was happening to his wife until with her wandering and incontinence made it imperative I get them to a safe place. They were vulnerable adults and I would be held responsible if something happened to them. The safe place I found for them is a far cry from "jail." They could not care for themselves or make good decisions any longer--that was what I was for. The head nurse there evaluated them before they came and gave me good advice on her care needs every step of the way as she deteriorated. All I felt was gratitude for the guidance.
The man who was in charge of leasing the apartments wanted to know why I, not even a relative, was doing all this for them. When I explained how we met and developed our friendship over 40 years, he was impressed and we became friends. He loves giving service to others, too. He left shortly after my friends got there to have a more flexible schedule in caring for his own father. His wife suggested he get his real estate license and he did. When I came closer to selling their townhouse, he became my realtor and give me guidance, advice and help whenever I needed it. Another "need" met through this marvelous facility. I feel very cared for, too, in this process. And have a new friend, too.

September, you might ask your doctor for an anti-anxiety pill, all this fretting is going to do YOU harm.... When my mother's part-time caregiver and I took her up to the nursing home, I was a nervous wreck. We had packed a huge suitcase the day before with mom's clothes and shoes, and I drove over to her house to pick them up to drive to the facility. It was an eerie feeling, going through the house one more time to make sure we had everything. The staff met us at the entrance and took mom in a wheelchair away for a medical exam while we did paperwork and put her things in her little shared room. That took a couple of hours. I snitched a towel off a cart in the hallway and washed the walls and every hard surface around in the room (it looked grubby), set up her tv, put her clothes in the drawers, and we went to the daily room where mom was leisurely having lunch at a table. I told her she was there for a couple of days for medical tests, and she was good with it. We drove home and I felt like an elephant that had been sitting on my chest for years had finally gotten up. .... Funny, I have read such horror stories, but mom never once demanded to go home or protested she 'hated it here', she just went with the flow. Her brain by that time was so bad that she couldn't carry on a lucid conversation. She recognized everyone who visited her, though. The staff told me she had settled in and got involved in a lot of activities they offered. Mom lived there for two years until she passed away in her sleep after 'declining' for a week - not wanting to get up, just sleeping most of the time. I was out of town and asked my two cousins, who belonged to her church, to go up to sit with her, and they did. They called me at my hotel the next morning to say she was gone. I had called the funeral home before I left and they were on top of it, picked her up when she died. I got home two days later and arrangements were made and she was buried the next day. God bless....Then, of course, the massive efforts regarding the house, all closed up all winter.   I had to struggle in through snow up over my knees to make sure the heat was on (after paying hundreds of dollars because the furnace was 40 years old and needed servicing).  The guy I paid to snowblow the driveway was a thief and never showed up.... Then summer came and we had to clean out the house, have an estate sale, donate mom's good clothes to a women's charity, take as much as we could out to the curb for the trash collectors.....OY! Another ordeal.... It's hard to do this kind of thing alone. I had a little help from relatives who came from out of town, and we worked and worked and worked while they were there for a weekend, 18 hours a day, all of us over age 60! ..... These stories here are valuable for people to read and know what they might expect to go through themselves someday. Do you know, I never once in earlier, better days imagined what I would go through at the end of mom's life? The worst was the dementia and the scam artists, the financial mess, changing bank accounts and her phone number,  and the getting her on Medicaid. Endangering my own health trying to keep up (the doctors told me I should be hospitalized for high blood pressure), and getting no help from my own small family who left me to my own devices but had the wits to not whine I wasn't there to serve them!. ... But never did I imagine what would happen, I didn't foresee dementia and caregiving and then what to do about the house. It's a tough thing to go through, and everyone who does this is a hero, IMO.

((((((september))))) your parents moving into a facility is a form of loss so you are grieving. Major emotions are normal, though uncomfortable. So glad your hub and sis are supportive. Lean on them. You all are going through a major life change and it takes time to adjust. Alz is a nasty disease and they need the care they will get in the home. It is great that the staff there are enjoying them. They are young to need this much help, but it is what it is, You will relax in time, and your household will return to normal. Have you considered talking to your dr about your anxiety and lack of sleep? You may benefit from something to help for a short while. Keep in touch, Dealing with their house and stuff is another big challenge. Take care of you!

It will take some time for them and you to adjust. It’s going on a month since I placed my folks in care. I had always claimed to be such a tough guy, really though I was, but just like you for the first few days mom and dad were all I could think of. Had trouble sleeping, the whole bit.

And we’ve already had 2 trips to ER and a frozen pipe flood in the facility!!

But, it’s getting easier. They are settling in, I check with staff every couple days, they are great and on top of things.

Yes, take comfort in the fact that they are together but more importantly, they are safe, warm, getting their meds, eating, interacting with people and being well cared for.

I still worry but OMG, the relief of finally getting my folks out of that nasty old house and knowing they’re safe. I feel better than I have in years. Give it some time. Step back. Let the staff care for them.

The waves of emotion I am having, at the oddest times, I didn't expect. Pulling back and letting others care for them is hard. I do have the support of my husband, and the encouragement of my sister who lives out of State (she's older than me and has the POA over everything, I have co-medical with her, bc I am closer and can make quick decisions when dealing with their care...).
It's Saturday and my husband has asked that WE put our lives back on track with kids, home, and bills and get back to "our" routine. He is right. I am however having a hard time turning my brain off about what my parents are doing today, or how they are coping...etc. I finished moving them in and unpacking last night. Gave them some of their favorite snacks, change for a Coke if they want one out of the vending machine, and connected their tv....
I go to sleep thinking about them and wake up thinking about them. My anxiety is through the roof and I feel miserable (as I 100% sure they do too). The staff their loves them and thinks they are so sweet and cute together... they said they rarely get couples who come in together, so it is nice to see.
I feel like I could sleep for weeks, if my anxiety would subside.
I can't believe they are only 76 and this has happened to them. People keep telling me to take comfort in the fact that they are together...

I am glad they are there, safe. And I am glad you are home, safe, after what must have been a heartbreaking and difficult day. I hope all goes well. Please let us know.