Mom is 88 years old and a long time alcoholic. She is almost blind and uses a walker because she broke her hip twice and still lives alone in a regular apartment. She complains about how tired she is but still walks a mile (each way) to buy liquor even in winter when the roads and sidewalks are covered by snow. Sometimes she falls in the street.
She won't ask anyone to pick it up for her, because she knows that we think she is an alcoholic. I have refused to buy it for her before, but now I don't know if I should start.
She is risking her life by walking to the liquor store and has ended up in the hospital because she falls in the street. She won't use a car service or ask anyone to drive her. She will let us order regular groceries through a delivery service. But not liquor and cigarettes. Should I start buying it for her? Her doctor says she is competent and has the right to make her own decisions.
OP's mother doesn't have dementia, has been deemed competent by her doc and from what we know manages to pay her bills. Just spending money on booze and butts isn't likely to be sufficient to get approved. Also, when you apply, the person receives notice that you have applied and can contest it. Until/unless mom has cognitive issues or a valid reason for OP to take over her finances, this isn't likely to work.
Becoming Rep Payee IS the right thing to do if for any reason you have to manage someone's finances, in particular SS. Federal agencies do NOT accept ANY kind of POA. Again, SS rules are that NO ONE can use anyone else's funds unless they become rep payee. They may never find out if we pay their bills from an account using DPOA, but if they do, it is a federal issue. It was NOT difficult to do, I called the local office (main # wait TOO long!), had ONE appt, answered their questions and waited for approval. The worst part was getting the special acct set up as the CU didn't have a good method for this - it took way too long, they had to keep asking someone else questions, etc. Since then, first payment is a check, then you can call the local office again and have electronic payment set up. Even the yearly reporting isn't that bad. It can be done online, it isn't that complex, just keep track of where money is spent or saved. They did question me this last year, because I apply the whole payment to mom's MC, then use her pension and funds from a trust for the remainder, from her old primary acct. Anything else she needs is from that acct. Their letter stated that people have other needs/wants beyond housing and food. Sure they do, but the pittance she gets probably wouldn't cover rent ANYWHERE, and at 97 with dementia, almost no hearing, Mac Deg, being wheelchair bound now AND recently having a stroke, where do they think she's going to vaca, Hawaii, Australia, maybe New Zealand, since they have the virus under control???
I purposely did it that way so I only have to keep track for taxes and bros.
I have a similar situation with my Mom.
After arguing with her and my hubby, I finally decided that the arguments were just not worth it!!
I refused to bring her hard liquor, but I will bring her wine.
It has alleviated some of the pressure.
Weigh the pros and cons!
Keep your sanity!
Best wishes!!!
We live in a free country. We can eat drink and be merry. My mother is 96 years old. If I start preaching to her she tells me not to NAG her. I let her do what she wants. It’s a free country. Someday we will get old and we won’t want our adult kids telling us what we can and cannot do. Leave her be. If she wants to smoke and drink, it her right to do so. If you want to buy her booze, go right ahead. It will make her HAPPY. Isn’t that the point when someone is 85, 88, 90, 95, 96, 99, 100 is to make them happy and enjoy the guilty pleasures if that is what makes them happy? Just my opinion.
Nope, it's not gonna kill her at this age...unless by falling in a dangerous area..which she has done repeatedly. Or by end-stage liver disease [a horrific fate]. Or, she might get violent with her caregivers.
I don't think most caregivers are willing to allow their elder to die in traffic or a ditch, or from thieves hitting her up, or to keep harming themselves in any way...any more than a caregiver is willing to allow that fate to happen to a child.
Wouldn't that be irresponsible in any case? I mean, people can joke about that, but realistically...is that what you would really do?
How would that leave you feeling, knowing you could have done something to prevent that pain and damage?
Ask her doctor adjust her medications accordingly.
Also can you be held accountable for her actions in any way if something happens? That seems so dangerous for her to be walking a mile with a walker and falling. She must really need that alcohol. At least she is not driving.
Do you know how much she is drinking?
Has she ever wanted to stop?
I would think it would be easier to get it to her to keep her from going out. Good luck.
Some nursing homes dosed alcohol of choice, on Doc's RX, for various reasons: relaxation; & avoiding them going into DTs on the staff, come to mind.
When Mom lived here, she randomly erupted into h*ll-on-wheels behaviors, as she's had Bipolar & heaven only knows what else behaviors all her life.
Adding alcohol to that, made it worse.
She was not handling grief of loss of her 3rd husband; & she was used to doing everything her way, regardless how good/bad the idea or behaviors.
She always wanted to go along for car rides, & really pushed for it almost daily; always figured how to buy her own [& give away large chunks of assets she couldn't afford to give, to "those sad, poor people begging in front of stores". She was very easily conned by strangers.
Perhaps the answer cannot be generic.
Perhaps one must really look at the person, to figure what is mosts sensible for the elder.
IF their alcohol drinking causes behavior changes or disruptions in your household, then allowing her easy access to alcohol, becomes the wrong thing.
Blocking her going on walks unsafely, is also bad.
Sorry, for those who think elders should get to eat drink and be merry. That does NOT work for most!
--> Now, there are alarm-door-locks for windows and doors, & tracking chips that can be hidden in the persons' belts, or other clothing they always wear, which can be tracked via smart phone. Tracker chips have become less & less costly. So have some cellphones.
IF she will keep-ahold of a cellphone, THOSE can be set up as trackers, without her knowing it.
We had none of those.
A "compromise" might be made, by letting her choose a bottle of booze she particularly likes, but restrict access to it, only dosed-out when it will not be too much, & not disrupt the household. You could make a production-number of that, by taking her for a nice drive, stop at liquor store, let her choose & buy it [the autonomy part].
But for many caregivers, that is NOT an option.
I could not stop mom buying huge bottles of booze every time she went shopping. We suffered the consequences...& so did her health.
I was unable to get even minimal help from ANY services; social workers around here had been useless as rain on an ocean.
Perhaps there needs to be a bit of fear threatened?..certainly falling on a dangerous walk has Not stopped yours.
MAYbe she needs to have the door locks, trackers, AND be made to understand that if she refuses to comply, she will be moved to a nursing home immediately..& make that stick!
--> Ever talked about why booze is so important to her?
Sometimes you might learn what is driving them, just by asking.
If it means "freedom" to her, or, "It helps relax", those are VERY different from making up fake excuses like: "It helps me go to the bathroom better than coffee",
--> You might want to see if there is a safer drug that she can use, like CBD oil baked into foods she craves [there's still a sense of "getting away w/something" that resonates with many]. That was one thing I could do, to decrease how much Mom drank. I was able to get Medical Marijuana. It relaxed her so she could sleep [one of her problems was a "busy mind"]; if it had a little bit of THC in it, she could feel "high" safely...it worked for her, but not well enough to prevent bad behaviors from booze, & almost impossible to use it to commit suicide. It also helped her glaucoma.
I dearly hope you can figure out the right combination of compromises and rules, so she can be some happy, yet you and your family are protected from any potential bad behaviors.
I highly recommend letting ALL her Docs know she's a long-time drinker, & how it affects her behaviors. It IS important for her overall healthcare [don't let Anyone tell you it isn't!]. BEWARE of Docs too easily RXing controlled drugs like oxycontin; you don't know if an elder will stockpile them "in case of need". those really harm people.
Docs HATE to make a determination of incompetence! They avoid it like the plague...& sadly, sometimes, to the deaths of some people.
The very basic rule about determining a person incompetent, is:
"are they a danger to themselves or others?"
SOMEtimes, a caregiver must educate the Docs on actual behaviors of their patient, or like some below posts say, the patient was lying to their Docs about their habits.
Docs, their staff, & Social Workers need to understand, that when a person lies to their Docs about unhealthy habits, & it is adversely affecting their health, they ARE being a "danger to themselves or others".
Especially if they get violent while drinking, for instance.
Society does not look kindly on caretakers who let their charges do things that cause harms.
OTH, elders might be counseled to learn how they really feel...they MIGHT have just had more than they can take of this life, so don't care about taking care of themselves..& certainly Won't choose to change their behaviors.
Alcoholics & smokers too often have silent death wishes..& would deny they felt that way to anyone out loud.
BUT...MAYBE counseling might help figure that out...then it is STILL the choice of the person, whether they want to sign up for Hospice & be allowed to starve, drink or smoke themselves to death.
But then at least, all caregivers would be aware, & could properly support the elder doing that.
One general practitioner's 10-minute diagnosis of competence does not have to be a dead end.
Many people on this thread are saying the law does not allow you to force her to change if she's of sound mind. However, in our society we have a moral and ethical obligation to take care of our parents if we can. It's up to each person to decide what they can do emotionally and financially, but when our moral obligation conflicts with the law, we can't just give up and allow loved ones to put themselves (and others!) in harm's way.
In fact, some states have laws making adult sons and daughters liable for the parents' cost of care, or liable for damage caused by elderly parent's impaired driving due to dementia. Those laws exist in the same larger framework of laws that say elders and disabled people have the same civil rights as the rest of us.
Reality is, group care, home care, and many doctors understand the family's wish to prevent further harm and they will be on "your side" more often than not as you try to keep your elderly mother safe.
Blaming it on "the elder law attorney said we can't" sounds like an excuse from people who eventually had to give up, or whose personal limits were reached very early.
There's a lot you CAN do, keep trying, and learn to understand your own limits when you must quit.
Within my family I did find the medicos wanted to help, wanted to keep my relative safe but had to work within their limit. As did I.
Doctor said living alone is unsuitable - but still she does. Physio says supervised outings required - but she goes out alone when chooses. She leaves the building through an entry with oncoming cars. Doctor says competent unless proved otherwise. She has refused Dr appoitments which could look further (neuro tests) & any offers to get further help.
So it's 'awaiting the crises' for any change. I was told once in crises mode, neuro testing would be requested by Doctor (maybe even by a court order) to assess competency, then guardian appointed if required.
I tried many paths, but they all led back here. To await the crises.
They didn't give me a diagnosis, but because of her and my sisters' abusive behavior toward me, the social worker told me to step back and let my sisters take on the caregiving. They also said that if my sisters didn't want to help, it was my mom's problem, not mine.
So I have backed off, but can't completely abandon her. I try to keep an eye on her, to try to avoid emergencies. I'm working on healthy boundaries, and respecting her right to make her own decisions. I do sometimes wonder if she is jerking my chain about going to the store. It seems so strange that she would risk her safety just to get attention.
She really does walk to the store and it is upsetting the very kind management at her regular apartment building (Not senior living) and last Sunday they went looking for her because she was gone so long. They can't evict her or refuse to extend her lease because of discrimination laws. Fortunately they are willing to encourage her to not renew her lease in July, but if she wants to stay, they have to let her.
Alcoholics make poor decisions about everything to get a drink and keep drinking. Young, healthy alcoholics stagger and fall in the street. Unless she becomes incompetent mentally, her life is still her own as always.
If she was totally incompetent, the 2nd answer makes sense and you'd have to intervene. You can't tell a competent adult how to live because they become elderly and physically sick.
On one visit to my brother in rehab I passed by a lady in a wheelchair sitting with a dozen other Wheelchair Bound patients around the nurse’s station. It’s just easier for the nurses. Whether they wanted it or not, there they sat. For hours at a time. This lady, who i later learned was 100 years old, was begging to go lay down in her bed.
I told the nurse that she wanted to take a nap. The nurse said she would die if she stayed in bed.
100 years old. I told the nurse, trying to not be angry, that there are worse things than dying. Being forced to sit up straight in an uncomfortable wheelchair for hours was worse than death. All this woman wanted was to lay down.
I realized then that there are, in fact, worse things than death.
get your Mom the alcohol. Join her in a glass, even if it’s watered down. Have a toast to life! Get her cigarettes. Sit with her and talk about happy memories.
after a couple drinks and smokes. Leave the bottle with her and move the smokes out of sight.
trying to prolong her life by not participating in getting her the things she wants is not helping her, but denying her the quality of life she has left.
remove the greater danger of dying on an ice covered street by letting her have some control over the only aspect of life that she can actually control.
By doing that, her life may be shortened by a week or month,, but at least she’ll be on her own terms and she’ll achieve some small sense of happiness at the end of her life.
Consider the pain and life changing horror of the poor person who might run over her on the icy street.
There are worse things than dying.
putting myself in her shoes ... have a drink with me. Make sure I don’t cause a fire. Hold my cigarette if you have to. Help me through my last days and try hard not to judge.
My humble opinion. I’m an old person, too.
You would willingly give your mom the things that you know can harm/destroy her body, mind and soul?
We have no control over what someone else does but we can control what we do.
Sadly, if a person's decision is to do the wrong thing no matter the consequences, that is there choice.
We can not live their life for them.
I can't choose to do the wrong thing to harm someone just because they make the decision in taking a risk of harming themselves.
(In other words, I can't go buy the alcohol ("that I know will destroy the mind, body and soul") for someone because that person (grown) is choosing the chance of falling in the street to get ran over.
Not judging here. Just my humble opinion.
I've been told by many medical professionals that she is competent to make her own decisions, and yes, she is free to make bad ones. A few suggested I walk away, and I even had a consultation with a lawyer at one point regarding my liabilities & responsibilities. I had to turn stony & clinical, limit my interactions with her, just buy her the daily wine (maybe cigarettes too), drop it off, and find an excuse to quickly leave. The first couple of years were filled with tears (on my end only), then I just went numb and into self-protection mode.
Mom's health quickly unraveled this past August due to aspirational pneumonia. She went from the hospital (where she was exposed to COVID), to rehab, to assisted living, to memory care in a matter of four months. She's wheelchair bound. Wednesday this week I received a phone call that she had a seizure. She had at least two and is now hospitalized. Last night I was reflecting back on my stressful, angry years of daily "wine runs" for her. My husband said, "I don't know how you did it". My daily wine runs are over but my sad journey with my mom is not. I've worked on releasing my anger over the past several months. I cried in the shower this morning, thinking of the good years and relationship she threw away while she drowned herself in alcohol.
Yeah, I don't know how I did it. But looking back at this point, I'm glad I was there for her in the way that she needed. I don't regret my daily "wine runs". We both did the best we could...
I admire your kindness and sensible approach.
Most people cannot reach the point that you did.
I reached acceptance of my brother’s drug usage, which of course is different but addiction is addiction no matter what the drug of choice is.
My circumstances were entirely different and I had to cut ties with my brother after trying to help him for so long.
I was at his bedside for several days at the end of life hospice facility. I forgave him and found peace.
Addiction effects the entire family, doesn’t it? We go through so many emotions before finding peace.
Wishing you all the best in life. Take care, my friend.