Moved back to my parent's house. Did I do the right thing?

DiHilbe, that's a lovely concept. Here in NYC, we do have 2 and 3 family homes and often, life plays out just the way you illustrate. What has happened to a great many of us on this site is a generation removed from your scenario. The "elders" we speak of are not the 50 and 60 year olds who might well be looking after grandchildren. That's who WE are, the 60 year olds, taking care of the 90 year olds, who are often suffering from dementia and who can't be left alone, who can't be reasoned with and who claim competency.

DHilBe,

Well, "Families living close is and should be a given" is not a given in America like evidently it is in Europe from your experience.

For years following my mother divorcing my dad, he moved to and lived in a city in MD while we lived in a small town in NC. After I finished high school, I went off to college in another place and ended up going to graduate school in a different state before getting my first job and since have moved all over the place until recently when my wife and I both ended up on disability.

I was fortunate and my mom was fortunate that I lived closed enough by that I could tend to her situation as her durable and medical POA while she lived at home with my step-dad, went to an assisted living and then ended up in a nursing home. I see from your profile that you are caring for someone with Alzheimer's who is living in a nursing home. How are they doing.

My dad developed Alzheimer's within the last couple of years. Earlier, he changed his POA from me to my step-sister who lives right there in a nearby town from me because I'm so far away and he figured I'd end up with my hands full with mom which was the case. Like my mother, he has long term care insurance, a very nice pension and enough money to cover the additional costs involved in him living at home with 3 caregivers per day per week. He's 89 and now has Parkinson's, but has lived longer than anyone on his side of the family ever has. My mother died two years ago at age 82, and her mother died back in 1997 at 96.

I"m only 57 and both of our boys have finished college. One stayed in state and the other one went out of state. It appears that both will end up in graduate school doing the same kind of in state and out of state thing. This is due to the kind of education for what they each wants to do is required to get there. I doubt that either one will live back here where my wife and I do. One of them may even end up living out of state. In today's economy, those who can be flexible about moving can very often find work if they are qualified.

I have 57 first cousins on my dad's side of the family. They all come from large families ranging from 8-13. Some of them were able to stay within a rather wide radius of where they grew up, but some moved away. Now their children are finding it necessary to move away as well. This all makes it harder to have a yearly family reunion like we once had and the cousins are not as close as we once were, but that is our ever changing society that we live in.

So, welcome to America! I would not claim that life is perfect here. Far from it. Given the personality disorders of some people in my family, we could not have survived one of those multi-generational houses of which your wrote.

I get the impression from your description of life in Europe as meaning no one ever goes anywhere, but lives and works in the same town that they were born in. Otherwise, how could you have multi-generational houses? Where I live is a very rural county and thus we have many people whose roots here go back many generations and even some of their grandchildren in elementary and middle school have never been outside of the county until they go on a class field trip to the state capital or some other city.

Take care.

For the record, my relatives in Fuerstenwalde and Kiel, Germany have endless discussions with their mother (80), who lives in Berlin, about "where she will live." The children feel she is better off where she is with friends and activities that she is used to. She wants to move, or perhaps just to harrass them about it constantly. None of the children (preachers and doctors, nice people) have suggested that she move in with them or even near them. They fear the consequences.

This is not a Europe vs. America issue. Americans have many different kinds of solutions, as this site attests. Europeans do, too. I just saw a program about an AL facility in Holland that is like a village. It is a really cool place where residents feel like they are in the real world with all of the freedoms that they had in the past. (Note: they are NOT with their families.) It is really super. And for 150 residents, they only need 250 employees to run the place!!! (Yes, true!) You can check it out here: en.wikipedia/wiki/Hogewey

So, all manner of options on both continents.

Oh, and furthermore, my husband has four sisters in different parts of Germany. All of them are well into their 80s and have lots of health problems. NONE of them live with their children, do not live in the same house, none of that. Most of the children are spread all over the country.

so sorry for the bad example. But, hey, it's my life...my reality. Quite a different reality from 1945, by the way.

I should have provided an example from France or Norway. I did try my best with an example from Holland..

Still fighting WWII by dumping guilt on the present generation of Germans because of the sins of the past done by some.

There are other nations that if we dug far enough into their past, we could claim they are not very nice people either, but that's blaming a present group of people for what a past and usually a small part of a past generation did. We do enough of that to ourselves in different parts of American society.

I think Salisbury's main point is that not all of Europe is like DHilB describes her experience to be and thus the problems of caregiving is not an America vs Europe issue.

I just tell it the way it is. Germans while efficient are in general a cold bunch.

And those 80 somethings you talk about are certainly old enough to know what was going on, granted they were kids, but they lived through that time.

I am history buff, and while the US has done some bad things, Germany will always stand out as being the worst. And the apathy of the German people who while they may not have actually participated turned a blind eye to what was going on isn't forgotten.

Like I said, you couldn't have picked a worse example.

And if you think that not helping your parents is something to be proud of I feel sorry for you.

And one more thing, as the saying goes "those who forget history are condemned to repeat it"....just because it happened 70 years ago means Germany gets a pass on bad behavior. While the Germans of today certainly can't be held accountable, they need to remember their history.

Again, really bad example on your part, almost laughable if it didn't involve such horrific behavior.

irishboy, if you go back into history you will find many countries, including the U.S. in its infancy had issues that one would feel were not kind to humanity... shall we ban them all for the likes of what our great-great-grandfathers had done?

I remember reading on here a while back that many of the multi-generation houses in European countries were being demolished and replaced with new single-family homes. I don't know to what extent that is happening, but it is the new way of the mobile world. People of previous generations often stayed near where they were born. It is no longer like that in the industrial and digital worlds.

We do have much multi-generational housing in the US for the Mexican and Oriental neighborhoods. This is something that I admire. However, I do admit that I have not met a Mexican person that was very old. It can be three generations that are like 20s, 40s, and 60s. That will probably change, of course, as the older generation ages.

freq flyer, I clearly wrote in my post that the US has done some bad things, I am no flag waver. What I was pointing out with the comment made by Salisbury that all her relatives are in their 80s with health issues and live on their own in Germany and would NEVER live with their children is indicative of their culture.

I know a few Germans from Germany, very efficient and working with them is great as they do their jobs well. But as a people(and I know I am making a generalized statement) they're not warm, and very insular.


I live in Southern CA amongst a lot of Asians and Latinos, it is pretty much unheard of in those cultures to not take in elderly parents who need help.

And it is a fact that when the Germans who lived near the camps didn't do or say anything, they claimed ignorance. The truth is they didn't care or were afraid to speak up. Mostly the former.

And it wasn't that long ago, and shouldn't be forgotten.

Germans are not known for their warmth, so it's not surprising to hear someone say that all these elderly are left to fend for themselves.

It is cultural.

Whether it is one person or a nation, what incentive does one have to change their behavior, moral compass, if he knows he will still only be judged by his past?

It's irrelevant what country Salisbury references to make her point...she has still made a key point. The changing situation with elder care in industrialized nations is not limited to the U.S. I've experienced a version of dhillbe's scenario. My mom's parents were from Europe and for the first two generations in the US, the old ways prevailed. The families all lived in two family homes, neighborhoods full of people from the old country, family sent food upstairs, kids to see grandparents downstairs. And while everyone's young, able and the parents are able to be independent, with a little assist like running errands, everyone thinks it's working. But families evolved and you have to go to the next stage - what does the family do when the parent needs 24/7 care? Back in the day, my grandparents and aunts and uncles passed from a health crisis, like a stroke, usually before age 80. Only one aunt needed 24/7 care, dementia, and she was kept at home to be care for by one person. Everyone in the family said how wonderful it was that she was home, her caregiver relative passed away four months after my aunt did. Which leads us to key point # 2 - the females in families are now working, some are single moms, some are divorced, some are widowed. Point # 3 is that we have parents living to 90's, with " kids" in their 60's and 70's doing the hands on.

We can debate whether cultural and societal changes have been positive, especially with regard to our ability to care for our families. But even in my family, the third and fourth generation are now having to accept that their parents need far more care than they can personally provide.

Since WW2, Americans/American families have been on the move: from city dwellers to suburbia, from the farm to the city....for wider open spaces to bring up your children, for higher education and currently for more job opportunities. It's a huge country. For many, you had to leave the old neighborhood, hometown for better opportunities in a different city or state. Not to mention, large employers who might want you to relocate to another location....and Mom & Dad or Grandma & Grandpa could not or would not come along.

Sorry, I will not be misquoted. I did not say that Germans never take in their elders. Heavens, no! I was offering the example of one extended family that has not yet done so, which proves that Europeans also find many different solutions to these problems.

However, we have made history on this site--we have come very close to Godwin's Law: as an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches —​ that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler or Nazism. ;)

Love it, Salisbury. I've always thought if a thread goes on long enough, a flame war will ultimately begin. Godwin's Law about Hitler sounds even better. We'll have to do a search to see if Hitler shows up in any of our other threads. :)

And Hitler does show up. I searched and got a lot of threads that have Hitler in them. I didn't read them, since it is time to put out the drugs... and my interest is not strong enough yet. I'll bet some of them had turned hostile.

That is too funny--yes, I found eleven hits!

Religion and politics always create personal blog slaps. It use to bother me, but after 15 years of debating politics on various forums, one learns to overlook the references no matter how hurtful it might be. People interpret history each in their own way no matter if they are right or wrong.

Regarding 2 or 3 family houses, we had a lot of those in update New York. The parents lived on the main level, and one grown child with their spouse/children lived on the 2nd floor, and if there was a 3rd floor, another grown child with their spouse. But back then a person could go to work for a company and be in that one city for their whole career. Thus those multi-family homes worked.

Now a days no one wants those 2-family houses, the kitchens are too small and [gasp] there is only one bathroom. Decades ago people use to walk to the neighborhood grocery store, the drug store, the movie theater, the bowling ally, walked to church and to school. Those stores, theaters, churches and schools now are either boarded up or demolished. My high school is now an assistant living facility.

It's very easy with any text or email to be misquoted or misunderstood. It's happened to me on here too. We are all under enough stress and strain without having to defend ourselves. This is a great site to give out information and support. Good luck to all of us. God Bless....

This is what you wrote Salisbruy:


Oh, and furthermore, my husband has four sisters in different parts of Germany. All of them are well into their 80s and have lots of health problems. NONE of them live with their children, do not live in the same house, none of that. Most of the children are spread all over the country.

I am just pointing out that Germans are not known for having empathy towards others, and tend to be very insular.

A lot of the Irish drink....LOL. But when it comes to family, you don't leave the old people on their own.

That's all.

Irishboy, I wouldn't assume that everyone is alike no matter what country of orgin.... everyone has different personalities

Irishboy,

It sounds like your bottom line concern is "But when it comes to family, you don't leave the old people on their own." which I take to mean that like yourself, one takes care of old people in their own instead of an assisted living or a nursing home which you evidently perceive as abandoning them. Am I correct so far that is where you are coming form?

If that is where you are coming form, that is fine. However, that is not where others are coming from and that difference does not mean they are any less loving.

I'm Irish with 57 first cousins on my dad's side of the family which means each family had between 8-13 children. They did what the could for my aunts and uncles as they aged, but some found it necessary to place them in a nursing home. My dad's surviving sister came down with Alzhiemer's and her husband was able to look after her for years until it became too much and she went to assisted living where she died last summer.

My dad has Alzheimer's and Parkinson's, but thanks to his long term care policy, a good pension and a good amount in the bank, he is able to afford 3 caregivers 24/7 to stay at home which is where he wants to be and he is dong well with getting around with his walker. At some point this situation could easily change with him being 89. My family and I visit my dad as often as we can, but we live an 8 hour drive away. Knowing this years ago, my dad gave the POAs to my step-sister who lives in a nearby town and is doing an excellent job coordinating everything.

My mother with her vascular dementia was able to live at home for a while with my step-dad and a helper, but then things became too much and she went to assisted living where she fell and broker her hip. Her dementia was so bad by then that she could not stay focused in working with PT to start walking again.

Thus, she never walked again, although she thought she had and was able to, and stayed in a nursing home with her long term care insurance helping to pay for things plus her mother monies until she died in October of 2013 at age 82. My step-dad and I visited her often.

While dealing with all of this, I've also been dealing with being on disability and my wife being on disability while raising two boys who have just finished college and are heading for grad school, plus bought a house 10 years ago after renting for two years.

Speaking of school my grandfather grew up across the Ohio River from the coal minds in WV. He decided to stick it out in school unlike his drunk brothers and was thus the first family member to graduate from high school He went on to work for the Ohio Electricity Company and moved away. My dad while not the oldest, was the first to graduate from college thanks to the GI Bill. Generational change can happen, but it takes making choices.

Some people's situations here are such that they've found it necessary to place their loved one in assisted living or a nursing home because frankly everything just became too much for them as one human being. Not everyone's caregiving situation is exactly the same and thus does not call for the same approach.

I wish you were more open minded than you sound that people can have equally different approaches to something and still be loving persons.I hope you can see this.

Three years ago, aged 47 , I had multiple health issues, trying to get drs to diagnose and take the pain away, took 1 year to get my health issue sorted then my car blew up, had problems trying to get my landlord to fix a roof leak more like a waterfall when it rained... Finally got it all sorted out, I felt since I was married no children... I did not want to be single anymore, and started online dating... One night I was on the phone to a guy, my dad was trying to contact me and couldn't get thru cause the line was engaged for 2 hours, I was having a great time chatting away as single people do... Then I got a knock on my front door it was my mum and dad, saying they thought I had been murdered cause my phone was busy for sooooo long, I said nooo I was chatting to a guy trying to find a boyfriend as I did not want to be single anymore.... The next day the land lord phoned causing me more issues, trouble was not ending.... I was also not working, after having three hospital admissions that year, I wanted a change to get some happiness back in my life, start to do new things, start to have some fun... Well that was that, my dad got sick, diagnosed with cancer within 6 weeks he had died... My mum asked me to live with her , I did not want to cause I want my life, but then she had a heart attack, lung issues she wanted my dogs for companship and for me to help her and be a companion too, cause all she had was dad, they did not have friends really and never went anywhere only stayed home... Which is not what I wanted in my life... Before my dad got sick, he asked me to do their house cleaning, I said for them to ring the council they can help you cause I was not in a situation to do house cleaning I had hip and pelvic pain which needed surgery... But he refused to ring them and wanted me to do the house cleaning, I said I couldn't help and nothing was done, for them to get the help they need, I told em it's not my house it's yours you sort it out, i trying to get my own life sorted out, with everything I stated above...
Anyways stupid me move into mums help her, worse thing i ever did, my life is not what I wanted, she got sicker, it is just as I was there for her, she has got over her health battles she just turned 80.... Thing are getting sooo much better for her..... For me my life is a shambles, still single, no kids, I have nothing of my life I wanted, I told my mum, you are lucky you lived a life you wanted you got married you had 3 children and have a house for security.... I have none of those and when I started to do this, u and dad stopped me, cause u did nothing to help yourselves, I did everything to help you to get you back to where you are today... The answer I got back was, I'm sorry I have ruined your life but you had plenty of time in your life to get what u wanted, I needed you now to help me, as I had no one to help me.... Now its a case, I'm dammed if I do or I'm dammed if I don't.... And I regret now everyday for moving, I should have stayed where I was, and helped from there, at least i would have a bit more of a life, as of now I have none...

Irishboy, here's a good question... if I move into my parent's house or vise versa, who is going to pick *me* up when I fall since I am a senior myself with age related decline?

*Freqflyer* Yes! Your comment hit a major point on the nail. Seniors are taking care of seniors. Too many now live to too old an age and medical breakthroughs are not yet good enough to give them quality of life. When folks retire (at approx. age 67 these days?) that they should not be held accountable financially or physically for an aging parent any longer. They should have a caseworker assigned to manage issues and provide assistance from an organization. This would slow down the problem of the next generation being saddled with the parent, grandparent, AND they are trying to raise children.

Persons at "retirement" age should not have to pool or drain resources away from the entity of the married couple to take care of a parent. Spouses so often are left out of the care loop because the parent's needs are so consuming. Legislation and a societal mind-set need updating.

Multi-generations in close households may work sometimes. However, it doesn't seem that an elder who needs their own help to the bathroom should be the person to oversee children with those needs (for an example). So, every generation living happily together is a nice, but rare way to achieve getting everyone taken care of every hour of every day. Someone in the age-group of 20's to 50's STILL has to be there to be the responsible work-horse.

onlyoneholly, well said. I think another thing people need to be aware of is that we are often needing to care for more than one elder at one time. Until my MIL passed last spring, my husband and I were support team for both of his folks (in their home) and my mom (NH). Now we will be helping his dad with whatever his choice is on his next transition. And my husband is living with PD. And my situation is not unique - how many people on this forum are caring for multiple elders, with their own flagging health or their spouse's? There's no way to spin a Waltons sequel from this scenario.

Yup, right here.

My mom is 89 and my husband is 81. She has dementia but is physically in great shape and is in AL; he is brilliant and at home but has many physical problems resulting in such a frightening slow-down of body and mind that I can only focus on "one day at a time." I don't think about next month! Just for my husband alone I am kept in constant motion: to the lab, the clinic, to anywhere because he is no longer driving (although he never made the decision and we never discussed it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!), which is another source of responsibility/stress. If I do not manage his meds, well, fahgedabboudit. And all of this is done without his hearing aid in (another thread, right?) so I am communicating as in the Early Stone Age about important/critical issues.

I have already written about the time needed for my mom's "business" issues in another thread, so, tell me, how would I pull this off if she were here, too?

Very good point!

I moved back to Missouri, from Calif. to care for both parents. My Dad, expected me to help them out financially. I had just lost my husband and he expected me to move back with them right away. I waited for almost a year before moving. It was eventually a nightmare waiting to happen. He became so controlling again as if I was a teenager living at their home. I eventually remarried, which was wonderful for me. However, my Dad, became jealous, and more controlling. I have a life again. He can't stand it, and complains about me to my daughters. He has called the police on me when I come and visit with my husband. My Mom, thankfully is in a rehab center. She gets better care away from him, and has Parkinsons disease. However, she is better away from him controlling her. He was making her go to bed at 4 pm in the afternoon and getting her up at 3 am. She complained, but she has lived with his controlling ways all of their married life. I refuse to let him control me. There is a price to pay, for taking care of someone who is Narcissistic and it is hard on one's health. So if an elderly parent is in denial of his abilities to care for himself yet taking care of his spouse, then let them. I chose to wait for him to make some mistakes with letting the neighbors take advantage of him. I know that sounds bad, but he would rather trust his neighbors instead of his own flesh and blood. I tried to help, but he only speaks lies about me. So I stay away!