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Brother is threatening to sue. She told me I could take whatever I wanted. I didn't take much. but brother had sent me an email saying "you cannot take anything or sell or give away anything". He lives out of state and has been an absent son for 30 years. anyway.. my mom has the right to let me take what ever I want , right? She had made a list years ago of things she wanted to give us. but her verbal permission has more weight than that list since she is alive , right? My brother is POA. He doesn't communicate with me.. Does he have to share any financial reports?

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Why on earth are any bills sent to you?

Have the address changed to his.

Send a copy of the latest bill directly to the lawyer with a polite letter stating that your are concrned about its unpaid status. And that as your mom still has capacity ( is not under guardianship) is capable of asking about her finances.

Leave it there.
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Just to get all technical - one doesn't get "bouts of dementia" as dementia is a continuing, progressive disease. What you are referring to would most likely be referred to as delirium which can appear dementia-like - a period of confusion, possible hallucinations, memory loss etc. Delirium can often appear during/after some type of event such as an infection or fall and can get better with time. Usually I don't like to get all anal about correcting people here but if you are going to do any kind of battle with your brother and his attorney it's best to be sure you've got all your ducks in a row.
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mnbwca, If your brother was appointed financial guardian by a court, he has to keep things confidential. You signed off, so you have no rights to this information. You can challenge him in surrogate's court for mismanagement. You cannot get a permission from a person declared incompetent for anything.
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ok, to clarify, my brother is poa because he has managed her investments for years. Mom trusts him. but is intimidated by him. she says when she asks about her finances he gets "huffy". I was co poa but I heard if siblings don' t get along that is not good. she wanted me to pay her bills. I am not very organized and I was her main caregiver so I did not want that responsibility so i gave it up..
mothers health records state that she was diagnosed with dimentia about 2 years ago. She ahd two bouts with dementia due to UTI but now she does seem to be mentally competant. altho losing her memory more and more. Since that is in her health records, does that automatically mean that my bro, as POA gets to make all decisions ? or.. is that determined by court?
Next : he had lawyers send me a letter stating that I cannot access her accounts altho she and I went to her bank and they said that I could view her accounts online - with her permission. There were several overdraft fees. I didn't accuse my bro but I did ask him why there was one bill that hasnt' been paid after almost 9 months.. It is sent to me and I have to forward it to him. I called the place and asked if bro had paid it , they said no. The lawyers letter said as POA my bro has sole access and threatens a lawsuit if I continue.. Asking politely about one overdue bill is threatening? lawyer's letter says "several sources " have told my bro that I am claiming he is mismanaging my mother's accounts and therefore threatening to sue for defamation of character. basically said that I cannot even talk to my mom about her finances.. He probably found notes I had at her house for her to ask him about "unpaid bill" etc.
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This post may not be helpful in your case but I thought it may give some perspective. My mother who had Dementia and was cared for by my sister kept trying to get me to take her jewelry(mostly costume-a few Mexican silver) during my visit. I failed to take it hoping she would forget to remind me and I could leave for home without it. Unfortunatle she remembered and my sister was very upset. I don't really wear jewelry and had no interest in Mom's but for some reason it was important to her that I take it. I tried to explain this to my sister but she was our of sorts about the whole thing and angry at me thinking I was asking Mom for the stuff. In exhasperation I finally told my sister I would be happy to accept the jewelry from Mom thus making her feel good and then turn the jewelry over to her secretly. That ended the whole thing. I didn't take the jewelry. Mom felt bad but perhaps, just perhaps my sister realized I was not trying to pull off some kind of heist.
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My son, who is an attorney has often told me that you can "sue" anyone for anything. HOWEVER, the burden of proof thing--there's the catch.

As far as the out of touch brother being POA, many elderly people will choose a son over a daughter as their POA simply because they feel a son can handle things better. It's a very "traditional" way of looking at things, but IMHO, you give POA to the person who is going to honor your wishes.

Put the stuff back. Try to figure out the value of the things you want. Let brother know, or even have it appraised. Then maybe he'll feel better. My absentee aunt asked my mother to have grandmas furniture shipped from Utah to San Antonio. Cost? $15,000. Aunt quickly decided she could do without any of the stuff. People get so awful about the inheritance. Good luck.
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Agree,each state is different, which is why it's worth contacting an attorney specializing in elder law/estates. For children whose parents have remarried, it's best to discuss this with the parent in advance, rather than being in the dark. There may be good reasons why the parent set things up the way she/hed did. Nevertheless, sometimes the parent does things out of spite or ignorance. A good friend's father (whose wife died before him), left everything to a caretaker, deliberately disinheriting his only daughteer.. Although my father had been their attorney for over 50 years, he went to another attorney to draw up a new will and no one knew about until he died.. The daughter was devistated.
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CatyRay, it depends on your states laws; wills in some states do not allow a spouse/child to be dis-inherited even if the Will says so, ( but if there are beneficary designations on certain accounts that is a way around it). Some states have 1/2 going to spouse and rest to kids, some states is 1/3, etc. And some states do not allow any debts (other than taxes & Medicaid) to be paid from house proceeds, because the homesteaded house is deemed "exempt" from all claims. Executors have to be extremely careful NOT to pay ANY bills until all estate assets are known--despite bills arriving in the mail. If theres not enough cash in accounts with no designee to pay bills, the bills will need to be prorated. But expenses of administration usually are paid before other bills--however the order of payments varies by state.....So, check with your states laws and get it figured out ahead of time with an elder lawyer.
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Vicksy: spouse only automatically inherits everything if there is no will. Otherwise, will rules, unless property and/or accounts designated a survivor. Still, debts have to be paid from estate, even if the house has to be sold and nothing is left.
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If brother has not visited in many years, yes, as others have pointed out he probably has no idea what is still in the house. When my mom died years ago, similar thing happened-- my sisters were thinking there were still 3 sets of china, 3 dozen crystal wine glasses, various jewelry items, and they even recalled certain cookbooks, sweaters, Jello molds, a fireplace tool set with blue delft ceramic handles and matching steam pot...I kid you not....the sisters had all been salivating over thoughts of these items, but had absolutely no idea that mom had already given most of them away, some to her church rummage sale, some to a friend, some to a neighbor, etc. Even if they have "memories" of items, or even if they have photos showing a family dinner 40 years ago with china dishes, that does not mean those items are still in moms possession any longer! It is so silly, but very common, that kids reminisced about X, Y or Z item and parents got rid of it....and it is all perfectly legal, and furthermore, what type of ungrateful kids are out there who would have place an adult tantrum at the feet of an overburdened Executor, and demand to see "proof" that mom did in fact give 2 sets of china to her church rummage sale, 20 years ago. Well, it did happen to me. Honestly it just boggles the mind how out of touch these people are, yet they expect the local caregiver kid to have 100 percent perfection and total recall of every detail of the parent's life, and you better provide that info within 2 hours of their email, or else you have been neglecting them. Guess What, my life is more precious than your ridiculous demands!
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Definitely get your mother to put you as POA. That said, how does your absentee brother have a clue about possessions? Other than her house or car perhaps which would be in her name, after 30 years, theoretically he has no idea whether the two of you have already emptied the house and been living in a tent. Not likely but how could he know? I am in a similar situation though my husband passed away and left his daughter who is hundreds of miles away as POA. She isn't getting weird about anything but she does have the right (now that he is gone) to empty the house to pay down outstanding debt. She has said she will relinquish POA to me or whomever though I'm not sure I want to deal with it all. He mostly has debt and minimal items to sell other than medical equipment. My lawyer however did tell me I can hold back items I choose to not be including in some future estate sale. This might be different because I am the spouse (?). It is all so confusing; but how is your brother to know what is or isn't yours? You shouldn't have to show him receipts. Even if your mother could need Medicaid, she is still allowed to keep her house as I understand it.
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I dont have any idea.
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DavidW63, the current POA does NOT have to agree for the POA to be changed to another person. Once the change is in place, the first POA is notified; that's all that's needed.
Movesouymom, You are telling her all wrong. mnbwca, just call an elder attorney and explain what the situation is and let him take care of it. Maybe some commenters have had problems in their past and they are thinking you'll have the same problem. An attorney in your state will know what the laws are for a POA, and what you can and cannot do so call one and ask a few questions.
Catyray, your brother is a jerk and greedy. It's a shame (I'm being sarcastic in case anyone is reading something else in my statement) your parents are living so long because he wants to get his hands on the furniture so badly, he's spending and trading while they're still alive. Unbelievable! Tell him I said he's worse that a greedy jerk.
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Sophie Bird, in many states, the spouse inherits everything from their spouse upon death, so the daughter is completely out of line to be telling you she is going to sell her dads stuff in an estate sale (?). Anything that was acquired after the marriage is now yours; things that he brought from his former life are "his" BUT upon his death they do not automatically go to his child (from a previous union). Did he make any written lists of who gets what, and are the items on those lists still in your house? A lot may depend on how things are "titled", and what the beneficiary designations are. For household items, i would be very surprised if daughter has any rights to come and sell items that both of you used in your marriage together, even if some were from before you married, unless dad put it in writing that he wanted daugbter to have them.
Most of all, keep in mind the value of the items in question- - for an estate sale, most companies want several thousand up front BEFORE the sale, and then they still take 35-40 percent commission! Others will conduct an auction, but start every item (even a set of Limoges china) at one dollar. Estate sales/auctions are really only worth it when you have dozens of high value items such as silver (not silverplate), gold (not plated), diamonds over 1 carat individual stones, and other items worth 10,000 or more. Anything worn, broken, or not in demand (check ebay SOLD items) is not worth the expense of estate sale. If all dad had was some misc books, an old car and his clothing there is not enough value to merit a sale. You could call them yourself and have them come take a look, and then convey this info to daughter. But really she must have rose colored glasses on-- most people do not have enough of the rigjt kind of household items to make a sale worth it at all. The best thing was dad, not his "stuff", anyhow.
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Wait a minute, SophieBird52. Didn't you husband have a will? The executor of the will trumps POA, since the POA is in effect only as long as the signer of the POA is living. Is the daughter also the executor? Was the house in your husband's name only, or joint tenants with survivorship? You need to get clarification from that lawyer!
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I agree with Churchmouse.
But check first if brothers POA is valid and mom either has been deemed by doctors to be incompetent or has invoked POA for him on her own by agreeing that he is now in charge of estate/finances. You need to determine that first and foremost.
IF he is POA then follow Churchmouse's advice.
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Definitely get your mother to put you as POA. That said, how does your absentee brother have a clue about possessions? Other than her house or car perhaps which would be in her name, after 30 years, theoretically he has no idea whether the two of you have already emptied the house and been living in a tent. Not likely but how could he know? I am in a similar situation though my husband passed away and left his daughter who is hundreds of miles away as POA. She isn't getting weird about anything but she does have the right (now that he is gone) to empty the house to pay down outstanding debt. She has said she will relinquish POA to me or whomever though I'm not sure I want to deal with it all. He mostly has debt and minimal items to sell other than medical equipment. My lawyer however did tell me I can hold back items I choose to not be including in some future estate sale. This might be different because I am the spouse (?). It is all so confusing; but how is your brother to know what is or isn't yours? You shouldn't have to show him receipts. Even if your mother could need Medicaid, she is still allowed to keep her house as I understand it.
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I addition to sending the revocation to former POA, mom will need to send a copy to her bank, insurance agent, financial planner, pension plan, etc to prevent former POA from accessing those accounts on mom's behalf. That is why, it's a very good idea to fill out fresh new POA documents as the same time, and notify the various financial places of the new POA. Also the new POA may have to fill out new signature forms at these places (they all have their own forms).
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DavidW63, excuse me, but you are wrong, the current POA most definitely does not have to agree, in order for mom to change POA. All mom has to do is revoke her former POA document and send a copy to him. And that information is widely available on nearly every state goverment website-- no need for a lawyer visit to revoke a POA, however a good idea to name a new POA at the same time you revoke the old one. A lawyer visit to do this could cost $400 or more, in most states you only need a notary seal / signature (get at least 3 copies made). Last time my dad did this it was a whopping $12.00. Put one copy in your safe deposit box, one copy in your home safe, and some people file another copy with their county courthouse (or keep it in another location).
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Does she have a will? My Dad left one saying that whatever we gave my Mom or Dad, goes back to that person. He also said that everything was to be sold and divided equally between the three daughters.But then the will doesn't always matter. The previous executor did a reverse mortgage on Dad's home for whatever reason, and has fraudulently spent the money from it. Since I became executor, I flew back last year to deal with the estate only to find the rest of the family and stolen EVERYTHING from Dad's house, even major appliances. They stupidly left evidence of their partying, and left two things that had been left to me in the will. It's all tied up in court now and my attorney filed criminal misdemeanor charges against her. She's either going to have to pay me my share, and the sister's share who just died without a will, or go to jail for fraud. I wish you luck dealing with all you have to. At least your Mom is still alive and can possibly intervene. Get a good attorney and have your Mom do an incontestable will stating what she wants done.
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This might be a problem for you also if she passes away. You need to get a written statement asserting exactly what she is giving you, when she is giving it to you and that document should be signed by her, dated and notarized. If you have that, your brother will not have a case. People can sue anytime over anything. Unfortunately, none of us can stop that from happening but if he realizes that your Mom has done this and that it is all above board, all legal and in writing, he may realize that he wouldn't have a hope of winning in a case. In some states, the loser in court pays court fees for both parties, including the court fees for the person who won. Your brother might not want to risk that if he realizes that your Mom's wises have been legally documented. If, indeed, you are concerned about Medicare, I would contact an elder law attorney to ask if accepting valuables now is something that would be worth while in her and your case. If your brother has been promised some items that your Mom wasn't clear about, then it would be best to communicate with everyone involved, no matter how difficult it might be. Your Mom may be torn between you two. She may be concerned about alienating either one of you. Put yourself in her shoes. She has to rely on someone to take care of her and watch over her in her old age. Although you have been there for her, she might just be very insecure and afraid that either you might change your mind about continuing in that capacity - or something could happen to you in which case, she would be dependent on your brother, like it or not. If she makes him angry, she can be fearful that he would take his anger out on her when she is very vulnerable. These situations are tough. Best wishes as you put some serious thought and careful consideration into how you are going to go about working this out with everyone and allowing your Mom to feel secure in your love at the same time.
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Johnjoe, the brother would have to agree to give up being a POA in order to switch to the daughter, and it doesn't sound like he would be willing to do that.
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I disagree vehemently with those advising you can usurp your brother's POA just because he is absentee. If you follow that horrible advice and have your mother sign any documents or forms without your brother's involvement, you may not just get sued. You could go to jail for fraud.
In any case, I don't recommend taking legal advice through an internet forum. Talk to an attorney if you feel the POA should be reconsidered.
If your brother has active Power of Attorney, it is because your mother requested it when she was still competent, and is now not competent to make financial decisions on her own. You must honor that, or risk losing in court if he makes an accusation that you were stealing from her. Elder abuse is a serious issue, and you don't want to be the one accused unjustly! That property may be needed to pay for her care!
Be sure nothing you do can be interpreted as taking advantage of your elderly mother. A POA is a powerful document, designed to protect the dependent from predators, scam artists, or caregivers (family or otherwise) who may take liberties since the other family members are away. It's easy to say "but she wanted me to have it", or "I deserve it because I'm here doing a,b,c." but if a legal document says it wasn't your decision, you will lose.
It doesn't matter if the brother is an absentee POA. One of my clients had a POA who was a distant cousin who didn't even know her well. But she had a reason for choosing him, which became very obvious when the siblings started fighting. If you want to challenge it, you should do so through the courts, and be prepared for the courts to assign a third party POA who may not do what either of you want.
If you are really the primary caregiver, in some states you can request a stipend from the estate for your care services. But if she is in a nursing home and someone else has POA, you are not the primary caregiver.
My personal experience as a POA, working with other POA's in the elder-care industry as an estate liquidator, and the things I've witnessed family members do to each other makes me very wary of anyone who says "someone else has POA but my relative says I can have these things". Sorry if that sounds cold, but you really need to follow legal channels, or you will be the guilty one.
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All legalities aside, here's what I'm reading into the situation from some of my own experience and others.

Given family dynamics, dysfunction, you may want to look at the situation for what may be going on. Is your mother controlling you by giving you things knowing your brother is bothered? Why does she keep your absent brother as POA when you're the one who appears most involved in her daily life? Communication seems to be lacking among the three of you which is causing angst for the two of you. Perhaps if you ask her to explain this decision you could get some answers, and if you want to become her POA you could advocate that and update all the necessary docs (advanced directives, DNR, POA, Will, pet trust, etc) that would be conducive to her elder care at the same time as she ages. In this way this could benefit her, and she could continue to give things away without upsetting anyone. Banks don't like old POAs so it would be appropriate to have this document updated anyhow. If she's reluctant or you sense it's not worth the trouble to go that route, you might ask yourself, why she's playing the two of you against each other. It may be an attention tactic she's working on each of you. I've personally refrained from telling others what I've been given by my 95 y.o. grandmother and simply held on to small gifts as she has asked for items back! She has a trust and I no longer speak with my only brother given our longterm dysfunction. My peace and tranquility is most important to me these days so I avoid those situations and circumstances that rile me. That would include discussions about my brother, and inquires of her that would rile me, etc. As she's gotten older with fewer things to do, fewer friends and activities and now a widow, with me as the remaining closest relative in her life, she seems to want to manipulate me in small ways either for her own attention or to push my buttons, depending upon her moods. You as the closest care provider (like me) may relate to some of my family experiences.

The best thing I've learned is you must always take care of yourself.
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I think the brother's POA should be revoked because all he is is an acrimonious person!
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My brother is pushing for Mom to go to assisted living or a nursing home near where he lives (3 hrs from Mom's house). Last month when were both visiting Mom for her birthday (not in front of Mom), he started a discussion about the furniture in the house, what he'd like to have, things that would help his son & wife furnish their home! He even suggested that MY four-poster bed with canopy (well, Mom & Dad bought it for me when I was 11) would make a nice "princess" bed for a future granddaughter! Maybe he was trying to start a discussion for when we eventually clear out Mom's house (AFTER she passes), but it was creepy to me. Mom is 96, but she could easily live to 100! BTW, since brother was listed first in the POA, the bank recognized him as additional signer on Mom's accounts. Not that I don't trust him, but he waits until he has three weeks' of bills from the home care agency before paying them. Mom has given me some little things that she hasn't told my brother about (costume jewelry). So far, nothing fishy, but I'm reminded that after Mom's mother died, one of the sisters cleaned out all the valuables (including the silverware) before the other children had a chance. Left bad feelings all around.
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Your mother can change POA any time she likes. If she still thinks clearly most of the time, get the forms and have her sign another POA. As for whether the bro can have you arrested or not, it's not likely that he can or would. It also depends on the language used in the POA. Sometimes, a person gets to make all decisions, others only a limited amount for a limited time span, and some have to write in what they mean so if you have a family attorney, it might be best to consult them to see about getting another POA done. Does the POA cover medical life choices? What about surgeries? What about financial decisions? There are all sorts of POAs and it needs to be very clear what you can and cannot do. Get a copy of it if you can and read it over carefully to see what has been said. Did she give the items to you before the POA was signed making the brother in charge. And, tell him to knock it off about the filing charges if you take something. That was your mother too, not just his. Since he's been gone for 30 years, he really shouldn't have the POA any longer. Sounds like he's a tad greedy and doesn't want anything to disappear until he has a chance to see what she has. He doesn't need to be there for your mother to assign you as the new POA either. He can be notified by mail if she wants to do it that way. If you have been the main caregiver, you need to be on the POA. Call the attorney asap.
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...I completely wish there were options to remove our own comments from these conversations.. and at the least edit"
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...again, Power Of Attorney is only as powerful as the document states and in what actual power the document is created (titled (ie: Duality, Health, Standard, etc etc), but perhaps mentioning, those documents are only of value during life, and the power ends after death. A Will, would then take effect and an executor would be appointed if not already done-so within the Will, (the executor position is not just given to the one holding a Power Of Attorney.) The executor of a Will, either already appointed or will need to be, that's when all property, items, and real estate (including all taxes & debts associated) are worked, transferred & divided. As said above, without knowing specifics of anything shes said at all, its virtually impossible to even advise, and would be speculative at best .. and quite possibly harmful to anyone else reading trying to gain knowledge. If anyone is unclear to the "legalize of power during life transfers, wills, etc etc, you can learn on your own, or as Ive said, go ahead and contact an attorney.. but education is key here. Just make sure its the correct "education.
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If your mom is able to set the record straight, let her do so asap. A 30 year absentee do not deserve so much power. It is not fair to you, if you have taken care of her.
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