Mother-in-law won’t plan end-of-life service. Any advice?

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Mother-in-law won’t plan end-of-life service. Any advice?

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My father in law died during the pandemic and we have not been able to plan his service. He was an atheist and wanted a party for a celebration. We had him cremated and we are holding on to the ashes. His wish was to be buried in his Unitarian church’s memorial garden. My mother in law has not willingly talked about the burial or any of the details. My husband is their executor, it feels like he is in over his head.
It is an unusual time but I feel like something off about the complete avoidance about planning any kind of burial or service. In the meantime, I am not comfortable having his ashes with us because he was so vocal about his intention. Any advice?

Care Decisions End of Life Funeral Planning Grief

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Is the mother in law also an atheist? Because I am as well. My brother and I discussed that we did not want any services. When my brother passed that was the way it was. No services. If your MIL doesn't wish to have services that is fine. We each mourn in our own way. I do not speak a lot about my brother to others. I do a little notebook/diary type thing in which I put pictures of him, write him the letters I no longer can, and kind of "pretend" he can get them. It is of course clear to me that he can't and doesn't, and certainly won't be answering. But it is a comfort for me. Let your MIL do it her own way. If you have the ashes that must be because you asked to have them? Then do take them to the Church where he wished them to be. Ask your mother-in-law if she wishes to be involved; if she says no she does not, then believe her and do it yourself.

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Thank you, yes we picked up his ashes and have held on to them as requested till she would feel able to contend with the ashes per her request. We absolutely honor her wishes and his wishes but broaching the practicalities of honoring his wishes are difficult for her to discuss such plot and stone. At the time she did not know if there was a plot and any details. After posing this question to this forum. My husband and I talked and he is going to gently bring up the subject with her again. She went through so much when he died in hone hospice. I am concerned that she is traumatized and that maybe why she is avoiding this and I don’t want to traumatize her further.

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Thank you, yes we picked up his ashes and have held on to them as requested till she would feel able to contend with the ashes per her request. We absolutely honor her wishes and his wishes but broaching the practicalities of honoring his wishes are difficult for her to discuss such plot and stone. At the time she did not know if there was a plot and any details. After posing this question to this forum. My husband and I talked and he is going to gently bring up the subject with her again. She went through so much when he died in hone hospice. I am concerned that she is traumatized and that maybe why she is avoiding this and I don’t want to traumatize her further.

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It can take people a long time to process death. I personally know quite a few atheists and they seem to either be lost in the process or handle it fine. And everything in between. I doubt her being atheist is making any difference in her thinking, she'd probably grieving in her own way.

I personally think the Cemetery business is going to change forever with COVID. People realize how much 'cleaner' cremation is and how it can be so peaceful to not have a huge viewing, long funeral and exhausting 'wake'.

There's no time limit on having a small service. Maybe MIL would want to wait until she also has passed and have a dual interment. I've heard of those.

When my brother died, with no instructions and no money, his poor kids were distraught at trying to do something to 'honor' him and yet be financially prudent as they had very little money. He was cremated and his remains divided up amongst the kids and mother.

Flash forward a year (or more) and my niece is driving around in her truck and at every bump in the road, there is this thumping sound in the back. My daughter finally said 'what is that noise? Aren't you kind of worried". "Nope" replies niece. "It's just dad. I just don't know what to do with his cremains."

I have no idea what mother did with her 1/5th of his ashes. Last time I saw them they were in a cigar box on her dresser.

Don't push. There's no hurry at all. Everyone processes death differently.

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We had something similar in my in-laws family. Dad had been a WWII Japanese POW in Burma, seen far too many bodies and funerals. He didn’t want one, just a party. We had the party for the rellies at the NH they both lived in, and DH as eldest son gave a short up-beat speech about what a good father he was. DH kept his ashes in his shed for several years until MIL died. Dad was a great shed man, keeping him there felt very comfortable for DH, and I’ve never gone for the urn on the mantelpiece.

When MIL died, the 3 sons mingled the ashes and sprinkled them together in the sea from the end of the jetty close to where they lived most of their lives. Something similar might even tick all the boxes for your parents, too.

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Why is your husband in over his head if his father made his final wishes known so explicitly? And I wonder why he wants to be placed in a memorial garden of a church he was a member of since he was an atheist? I guess his wife wasn't, but still.........an odd request in any event. Why not call the church and simply ask if/when his ashes can be buried in their memorial garden? Your MIL doesn't have to arrange anything or consent to anything, either, since the idea is to follow the decedent's wishes, right? Once the ashes are buried, you can have a small celebration in his honor.

Not everybody wants to plan funerals or memorials or services; some people can't handle the topic of death at all. I imagine your MIL is still grieving the sudden loss of her husband and doesn't really want to face the whole finality of the burial. Can't say I blame her. Which is why you and your DH can just move ahead with your FILs wishes, thereby letting MIL off the hook. When my father died, my mother was such a zombie there was NO WAY she could even answer a question never mind plan anything, nor did I expect her to. I did everything, and just picked her up for the service at the cemetery.

My condolences for your loss; best of luck moving forward with FILs wishes

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Many UUs are atheist, actually. It's not unusual. An old UU saying is "deeds not creeds".

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If your FIL wanted a party to celebrate his life, it's going to have to wait anyway until a reasonable number of people can attend. When did he die? Is there really any hurry when it comes to his memorial service?

I know a good many other Christian denominations consider Unitarians shaky on the Trinity, but I don't think they can be fairly described as atheist; and your FIL evidently valued belonging to his church. I only mention this because it might be better not to cite atheism as his reason for declining a religious funeral service.

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I don't know if this is any help, but some years ago a coworker was describing the Unitarian/Universalist church to which she belonged. (The "Universalist" part may make it substantially different from the one Marilyn24's FIL was involved with. However, this coworker said there are many kinds of people there--there are pagans and atheists, etc. My major professor in grad school, who was either an atheist or agnostic (I can't recall this conversation from over 40 years ago very well), but he belonged to a Unitarian church (I can't recall if it was also Universalist) because "he liked to sing" but sometimes felt the sermons sounded too much like university lectures. Another professor, who was essentially a non-practicing Jew, also belonged.

In any case, having heard these comments over the years makes me not at all surprised that an atheist might want to have ashes buried in a Unitarian memorial garden.

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Why not just bury his ashes in Unitarian’s church memorial garden with immediate family, privately and plan a celebration party after pandemic? Would that not comply with his wishes?

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I know people have end of life wishes, but in reality what is done is for the people who are still here. I think if a party is wanted it might be a good idea to hold it on a one year anniversary , hopefully things will be easier to navigate then and the grief will have had a chance to turn to being able to remember happy times

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My suggestion is to remember to first, care for the living. If your MIL is spent and not able to dutifully carry out these final wishes then give her her time. Hopefully FIL has found some sort of peace. Give mom time to find hers as well. Nothing will have changed if you wait a month.

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Memorials and funerals are not for the dead person but for the living. Talk with your MIL about what would give her comfort and allow others to have closure. It can be whatever she decides. If you are not comfortable with keeping his ashes, then get her to come to some decision about that. If she won't participate in discussions about memorial/funeral arrangements, there is nothing keeping you from going ahead with something that helps you, other family members, and friends.

My father-in-law passed in Hawaii and we live in Florida. My brother-in-law and mother-in-law did not give notice that he was dying until after he had died. They had a quickie funeral less than a week of his passing. My husband, myself and our children were not able to attend. Because my husband's family had lived a long time in Chicago area, we contacted friends and family there. We had a celebration of life ceremony in Chicago with pictures of FIL at different ages of his life and gave people the chance to share memories while we shared a meal. Of course, we invited BIL and MIL who declined to attend.

I share this to let you know it is OK to go ahead with whatever you need to for your needs.

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Hello,
I might suggest you speak with the funeral director that assisted with your father in laws disposition.
Hopefully you were able to develop some report with him/her while facilitating his cremation.
I am certain they will be able to assist you in “pulling things together” for your father in laws Celebration of life and burial of his cremated body.
Despite Covid-19, they should be able to orchestrate a fitting tribute that will meet the needs of your family and his friends

jim B

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My nephew died suddenly two months ago, and since he was young with no end of life papers in place, we had no idea of his wishes for a service or burial. We eventually allowed his sister to decide on her own, because everyone had very different ideas of what he might have wanted. You at least know your FIL's wishes. As Zachary says, I think a very small gathering at the burial site for now is reasonable, with a celebration of life gathering later on. Unfortunately, we must mourn now mostly in private. I suggest you make a plan and present it to your MIL. She may be too overwhelmed to do anything at all except go along with your plan.

My father clearly wrote and stated that he wanted no service or gravesite, so we didn't have them. People were upset. My sister wished her ashes to be combined with our parent's and thrown over the Colorado mountains. We are keeping both my dad's and my sister's ashes for that event. My mom might outlive all who know my sister's wish though, so I'm getting it into some sort of document for the remainder of the family. It seems to me the coming together after a death is for the living more than for the one who has passed, but following the wishes are part of that.

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I have been grappling with similar issues since my husband died in April - not too long after the COVID-19 shutdown began. We are only now in a position to have ANY kind of services to celebrate his life/inter his cremains. Family is spread around the country, with travel difficult and uncomfortable for some. I would dearly like to have his cremains off the mantle and in the cemetery where he wanted to be, and our pastor is encouraging me to do something. I have hesitated, in part because of a desire to accommodate the needs of far flung family members. But what I'm reading here gives me comfort in the thought that I should do what I need to do for myself and let others mourn/remember in their own ways.

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since FIL passed during the Pandemic I’m guessing perhaps MIL and the rest of the family never had a chance to say goodby or come face to face with his passing. Likely MIL was unable to sit by his bedside or experience his illness first hand as so many spouses and families are having to deal with. It doesn’t surprise me that MIL hasn’t processed it enough to even think about a service maybe she even knows that anything planned now can’t be the party he wanted, so many emotions tangled up even more than usual. I understand your desire to both finalize his passing and honor his wishes but why does it have to be now? Did he indicate that it was important to him this party and burial happen in a certain time frame? It isn’t necessary from a practical perspective since he has been cremated, though I can certainly understand uneasiness at having his ashes sitting around the house, maybe there is somewhere at the church where they can stay until his wishes can be carried out and MIL is ready?

It was 6 mos I think between the time my grandmother passed and the time we were able to get together and disperses her ashes. She was a practice woman and didn’t want a fuss but did want some of her ashes buried next to her husband in a cemetery plot she had arranged for years prior. That cemetery along with most of her life were in CT but she passed in FL during the winter so when my father, two brothers and I could all meet in CT that next spring my father (who also lived in FL at the time) brought her ashes with him, we had some buried in her plot and had a simple private ceremony, just the 4 of us out on the point overlooking the water on the family property she was born on and lived in the summers until the day she died, sending her ashes out into the ocean that had been such a part of her life. I think we were much more ready to feel the moment actually because it had been several months since she passed, it was a perfect goodby for us and we all know for her as well. I’m not saying do something like this, just that waiting to carry out FIL wishes and allowing time for MIL to be a part of planning that as well might be better than it seems to you rite now.

I feel for your loss and don’t want to imagine how much harder it has been given the COVID complication, my thoughts are with all of you.

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My father died this past spring. He was in the military and wanted cremation with his ashes buried in his service academy’s columbarium. Due to COVID, we plan to do the burial and a celebration of life next summer 2021 when it will be hopefully safe for everyone to attend (fingers crossed!). Meanwhile, his ashes are in a prominent place at home in a gold box with a bow on it (my addition) ready for the columbarium. I believe this actually provides comfort for my mom (who has mid-stage Alzheimer’s) as she knows that he’s still there with her, just in another form.

Unfortunately, COVID has uprooted many of our plans and cultural institutions. However, I kind of like knowing that we have plenty of time to plan his celebration (especially going through lots of family photos, home movies, and artifacts), rather than rush to get it done so soon after his death (cultural expectation). I think that time will allow us to really enjoy celebrating his life next year, rather than be so focused on his death.

Just another perspective ....

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Is it possible to just leave it alone for now?

She needs some time to find her footing after dealing with his death.

It's not like you don't know what will happen, it is the when that everyone is dealing with right now.

If his ashes bother you put them somewhere that you don't have to look at them. We put a picture that brings us happy memories around the box, then we can smile every time we see the cremains.

Please find a way to step back and not pressure your MIL while she finds her way forward. Everything that your FIL was so verbal about will happen, just not right now.

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I am in a similar position. My father died in April of 2019 and was cremated. My mother refuses to do anything. My sister and decided to just wait until she passes (89) and have a joint service. I actually did this with my grandparents. They were 100 and 103- dying 3 years a part.

My brother died this past April, not COVID, we are including him in the service. We are spread out over several states some of which are high risk right now....

Create whatever works for the people remaining.... these are strange times. be creative in your celebration of life....

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It is not necessary to have a service or to do anything ceremonial with FIL's ashes. As long as "he is there" with you, "tell him" you'll have his party when things are safer. For now share memories and family stories your FIL was a part of.

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During the pandemic, you'll not be able to have a party safely. It's OK to hang on to his ashes until public health is safer. Put them away somewhere in a cupboard or closet until your mother in law can face the thought of a service. People grieve in different ways. It's best not to force your schedule on her.

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Tread gently and slowly. Develop episodes of brief discussions about how she feels and be ready for any kind of response she gives. Reflect on how much pain and sense of loss she is in and focus your responses on that. This may facilitate breaking down her resistance to her late husband's strong wishes.

Introduce the idea that her husband never wanted her to suffer as she is, and thought his wishes would not cause a problem for her. At the right time, remind her of how clear he was about his wishes, including the desire never to leave her in the first place. Now his body has passed, but his love for her remains forever, and that will never part from her. In honoring his strongly voiced intentions, does she really want him not to have what he wanted? If she continues to resist, make sure his ashes are in the room where she stays.

Grief cannot be hurried and i am aware of people who never let go. The families eventually did no upheaval to the remaining spouse by over-riding her decision. Leave her as the sole care-taker of her husband should doing otherwise further break her down. Grieving a permanent loss is expressed in as many ways as there are remaining people. Maybe it is the survivor's struggle to work through this and ours to mitigate their pain. I am truly sorry for the loss experienced by all involved. There is no one good answer to your sensitive situation. But there is one bad answer: forcing a decision on the one most involved. all my love, m

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It is hard for any of us to give any comments or how we did things. Every family is different. In our case, with lifelong distancing of our families due to my husband's military career, our situation, was that my husband had only one sibling remaining , not in our home town but many States away ; my family lives across the United States. It just wasn't in my mind to ask my family to attend my husband's 30 minute "funeral" because I didn't see the reason to have it. If the mother is showing signs of dementia, sounds more than just showing signs, then maybe the caretaker child can just arrange for burial where the person wanted to be buried. If the remaining children are all close, just plan a dinner or Sunday get together and invite all whom you want, any family members, few close friends you want. Something smal,big BBQ, or nothing at all.
I arranged through our funeral arranger for a small military service with a Chaplain and one soldier at the nearby National Cemetery. Just our son, his wife and their twins. My husband was not a sociaI person and had no close friends. I gave the chaplain some information about my husband, my daughter-in-law made a small bulletin board with various pictures of my husband over the years, and a newspaper article of him. The twins were almost 6 at the time, and were thrilled to see the photos of their grandpa on display. I arranged to have two flags presented, one to me and one to the twins (mine will go to them, so they each have one of Pap Pap). Just as the Chaplain started to talk, two waitresses from my husbands favorite restaurant arrived. I was surprised. That's all we had. After the small service we had planned to have lunch at a certain restaurant, and invited the Chaplain and soldier (who declined), and invited the two friends. The chaplain said grace at the restaurant and a few encouraging words. During the lunch we said very little about husband/father/grandpa. The chaplain shared some words of encouragement and for the rest of the luncheon we had laughs and talks, that's the only thing my husband would have wanted. We were just wife, son, family and those 2 friends, and the chaplain.

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This sounds like it was lovely, an event you and others can remember positively. Well done.

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Plenty of atheists attend the Unitarian church. If he was an atheist, then, you have absolutely no problem waiting until your mother-in-law is ready to do the planning or at least until a party is even feasible. Delaying the party and burial of ashes is understandable during the pandemic and this is no poor reflection on his family. What you are really concerned about is the manner in which she is grieving. Best advice I can give to you is for all of you to get grief counseling. Hospice offers this; hopefully they are doing these counseling sessions via zoom during covid. It may be that your MIL just isn't up to this task. When my dad passed, my mother directed me to work with the funeral home. She really didn't want to do it. I complied. If you have time, you could investigate options for the burial of his ashes, research markers or benches, possible inscriptions etc, so that when MIL is able or interested you can show her what you have found. If she passes the job to you, you are ready to act.

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Family held a memorial service for my grandmother right after her death. It took almost 4 years for her kids to scatter her ashes. There isn't a right or wrong way to handle the situation, especially now with COVID. Maybe the "right" thing to do is help your husband understand that he is doing the best he can under the circumstances. Your MIL may need the time to adjust to her husband's death, so knowing that you will do as your FIL wishes in the future may be the best all of you can do for now.

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Does your MIL want the ashes? In this world crisis for now.. planning a service may have to be put off. But..helping your MIL to create some sort of memorial in her home might help her grieving process??? IE: a small table with pictures of him and the family etc... creating positive memories. I dont know the mind state of your MIL? If you do get to visit her..having her husbands favorite meal with some family around can open conversation. personally. I would just keep the love and giving flowing. Good thoughts your way. One step at a time. Sincerely.

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There is no rush for this or to carry out his intentions. If she doesn't want to talk about it right now, so be it. Executor hubby can take care of the other details in dad's life and leave the burial to later on. Settle the estate and then deal with mom's will in the event they had wills leaving everything to each other - hers will need an update to avoid problems later on.

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This situation makes me so angry - people know they should be doing something or at least discussing options, etc. and they do nothing. End result everything gets dumped onto someone else who should no have to bear the burden. Here is what I think. For whatever reason, your mother in law does not want to accept the fact that he is gone, or she is in deep mourning, or she is just simply incapable of acting. Since it appears you are aware of what his wishes were, I would sit her down (with others present as witnesses), tell her that you are concerned she is not discussing what plans she wants implemented. Therefore you, or the person in charge, is now taking over that responsibility and will proceed with all plans that your father in law indicated were his wishes. You will abide by them to the best degree you can and she must get involved. If she won't, appropriate action will be taken without her input and that will be the end of it - and you will not ever listen to a word of complaint afterwards. In other words, she is making her bed (ignoring all things), now let her lie in it. Just carry out his wishes and do what he wanted. Then get on with your life and if she comes out of her "shell" afterwards and has something to say, then ignore her or put her in her place.
Do what you have to do.

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You think the OPs MIL isn’t doing something she should be doing? People like you make me angry. Do you suffer from memory loss? Not trying to be rude here. Or perhaps you only read the title of the post and nothing else? Either way, it’s kind of hard to make final arrangements during a final pandemic. Nothing has been left for the OP and her husband to deal with either. Seems like what is actually missing here is COMMUNICATION and no one has bothered to discuss this with MIL. Just because she hasn’t “willingly talked”
doesn’t mean anyone every brought up a serious discussion about it.

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Get your name as co-owner of the property. You or your husband on her bank acct. Give her time, and keep up with conversations that are "where she is".
The ashes...you are focused on yourself. Do what he wanted.

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Are you serious? Why should the OP get her name on her MILs assets?

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Several questions come to mind. First off, why is it assumed that your MIL has to be in charge or even involved. He said he wanted a party so anyone can plan a party And there is no indication that his burial was intended to be a social event or even have any spectators so just get it done.

Second, why was your hubby made executor? Sounds like it was thought that he was a good manager of things. If so, it does not need to be struggled with as an emotional decision. Just see that the will is properly executed. I have long held that one of the worst things that Anyone can do to their survors is to make a relative an executor of the estate. It will always place that person in a position of distrust and alienation the rest of their lives. It will also always make the rest of the family feel like the deceased did not trust one of them enough to make one of them the executor, instead. But that ship has already sailed in your case. Just get the job done so everyone can move on. Either that will be a relief for your MIL or she will be put off because she was using her indecision to keep attention focused on herself in her indecision. Good luck.

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She is grieving--- if you all love her-- plan a BIG ONE and incorporate all the pictures from all the albums-- make it a FAMILY undertaking ( ooo- poor choice of words ...) -- Now call up the Unitarian Pastor and get her done ! Time is of the essence. Lose not a minute.

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What's the rush? When my father died 3 years ago we opted to wait 2 months and hold a memorial service. Per his wishes he was cremated and I scattered some of his ashes around his home town. The rest were put into a box that commemorated his career and buried in a small family gathering.

He died in the summer and had many elderly relatives so heat and getting people to a funeral would have been a hardship to many. So we had a memorial service with pizza and cookies. Instead of solemnity and grieving we were able to enjoy memories and stories. I made posters with pictures from his life and my siblings brought momentos of his life.

This was easier on Mom, too, not having to make so many decisions at such a traumatic time. And quite frankly saved up a lot of money on a funeral.

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That is exactly how I have expressed my wishes. My cremation is paid for, my ashes to be spread in the spring over the fields of blue bonnets that I love and no funeral just a get together of our children and grand children for a good meal/cookout/crawfish boil and lots of memories of all of us together.

Now my husband wants a big funeral which has been paid for and wishes to be buried beside his mom and dad who had a 3 person plot. But, he flat refuses to finish the planning by purchasing the vault required and a headstone. He has picked out his casket and told me what he wants to wear. I just wish he would finish the purchases needed to be complete.

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Mother-in-law won’t plan end-of-life service. Any advice?

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