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Thank you Cindy! I'm feeling much better!
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Isn't it interesting how one moment of clarity can change your whole perspective. Wonderful...happy for you!
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Hi everyone! A special hi to JudymW - I hear you. At least you have been smarter than me by not allowing your mother to move into your home.
I had the same thing with my mother except about Wal-Mart. She collapsed in the frozen food aisle and had me running all over the store for water, etc. but wouldn't let me call 911. Then we she got home it was the phone calls to a best friend about her "crisis" in the store and how I wouldn't do anything!! When the friend goes away she invents some ailment so she can "guilt" the friend about her having been away while she "suffered". It's never anything!!
Watch out for the sabotage. If you dare to go anywhere or try to enjoy yourself somewhere it will be ruined, for it is not all about them.
My daughter and I went out for about three hours one day and, when we returned, it was "I had to call the dr and have him put in a prescription for antibiotics for me - I've got a throat infection." The dr. is 40 minutes out of town so of course did not see her, and he fell for the gravelly voice trick.
This is from a person who used to be a medical secretary, for Heaven's sake - it's shameful what they will do to bring attention to themselves!
And, never mind getting ill yourself, as you discussed - it will be belittled, criticized and negated. If I have an ailment of some sort (rarely) - the comment is "Oh you've always got something wrong with you". What about YOU? You invent a new one every week!!
Her friend had breast cancer and had to have a mastectomy. This was not believed by my mother who even orchestrated a trip on which they would share a hotel room so she could see if there really was evidence of a "true" mastectomy. When my mother was diagnosed at age 86 last Oct. and had to have a mastectomy herself, she called the friend and said "Well now I'm a member of your club" and, of course, hers was worse, a higher stage, took a longer recovery etc. and she was angry and upset that the friend 80 yrs old herself - wouldn't drive an hour to come and see her.
What can I say -- I laughed when you used the name "Debbie Downer" for that is a good nickname for these types! A lot of people have crossed my mother off their lists and when she moved in with me, I was told that she was unliked in her apt. building, which didn't surprise me but hurt coming from other people - just served to validate what I already knew.
You are right: let go, and let GOD. He's in charge anyway!! The only way I have been able to do this is with faith and patience! Good luck and don't engage .....keep your distance! Don't be too available!
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PS don't even get me started about the food complaints!!
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Oh yes! Undercooked oatmeal = senior abuse!

"Don't be too available" is exactly right. Some one asked me how I got out of making arrangements for my mother's upcoming birthday, as I have done those things all my life. I figured I had time-off coming. Someone else (i.e. my sister) could do it. So I wasn't available, didn't take the bait, didn't respond to the guilt trips, kept focussed on me, and what I needed to do for me (still playing catch up on that stuff), and frankly, and I know only those who have a narcissistic parent will truely will understand, gave myself permission to n ot even go if it was going to be too stressful. Sig other was shocked, but his family is normal. I didn't go to my father's funeral, (and I was close to him), as my sis and mother were so nasty to me around that time, I couldn't have handled it. Instead, I went alone, across the country, to see him a few days before he died, and that was a gift, and I had peace, and so did he. You have to do what you have to do, and you can't do what you can't do. The "normal" social rules do not apply often, when dealing with narcissism or personality disorders. My youngest son had been dead a few months aged 23, and I was visiting mother, She said to me that she wanted to have someone over for tea, because it was easier for her when I was there. I said no, as I was in no shape to socialize. Heavens, I could hardly remember to brush my teeth, but she went ahead anyway, and called this person and started to invite her over for tea. I repeated that is wasn't going to work for me, and she got upset with me, and said I was rude. I left, and didn't stay with her again till recently.When she was mad at the hospital for not treating her as she felt she should be treated, she also got mad at me and said she noticed how my son got preferential treatment when he was in hospital (dying), and she didn't. Their cruelty has no bounds. I wish I had said what was on my mind which was "Wake up and smell the coffee, mother! He was a young man who had been assaulted and was dying, you are a crabby old woman who has nothing wrong with her. except that she wants attention."
I would advise any one thinking about taking a narcissistic oparent into their home to give it very serious thought. They truely are toxic, and the stress is very hard on you. I had not realized how hard it was, until I distanced myself from it.
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Emjo, I am sorry you lost your son. Just not right. Some people have more than their share of sorry. Take care.
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I have the good fortune of having a sister close by who helps with Mom. There is another sister in a distant state, but she jumps in whenever we need her, though we try not to burden her. Our mother was healthy until she had a stroke at the age of 83. That was followed by a heart attack at 86, and then a bad fall that caused her to hit her head. She is now 87 and considering all that has happened to her, lucky to still be living in her condo. However, that would not be possible without the support my sister and I give her everyday. My sister is still working and has an adult handicapped (physically and mentally) son to attend to as well. Mom displays so many of the behaviors I read here. She is getting more and more contentious as her age related issues intensify. Our problem is that we want to erase any pain, discomfort, loneliness, fear, boredom, and confusion from our mother's life. We want to give her a cheerful, secure environment always. We are having a very hard time accepting that we may not be able to do that. We worry constantly, accept her negativity and depression, and then we go home and cry. She is a danger to herself, but won't listen to us when we beg her to use her walker, let us check her meds, ask her to eat and drink to stay hydrated. She fights even the smallest changes. We have learned that it is best to leave things as they are rather than to simplify something for her because if simplifying means changing, we are in for a horrendous battle. This fight carries over to her medications as well. When the doctor changes a dose or adds a new pill, my stomach starts to knot up. We did win the battle of the alert lifeline button when we threatened to call her 3 times a day to check on her, but she won't wear it when she bathes despite the fact that she knows the bathroom is the most dangerous place for her, and she won't wait to bathe until one of us visits her that day! Mom is experiencing the loss of control of her life and she is really angry about it. That's why my sister and I have been doing so much to cushion that reality, but I don't think we can. We thought that our attention would make her feel better and give her a better end of life experience, but we have come to the conclusion that we can only do so much and the rest is up to her. If she isn't going to help herself, we can't either. Mom has always thought she was a religious person, but I think one day I will ask her why God would give her these final years beyond what many people get if she is just going to squander them on anger, spite, and discontentment.
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@madge re "training". I think we are into semantics here. I fully agree with boundaries and self protection, but to me, and I have taught for years, training implies a change in behaviour of the person beng trained, and I really don't see much of that in my mother. I see changes in my behaviour to look after myself better, but my changes, alhough they have changed the relationship a little and eased the stress on me, have not brought about any significant change in her. Now, in contrast, my daughter was successful to a degree in training her grandmother, and I think that is what you are referring to, When mother wrote her a nasty letter, my daughter wrote back that if she ever did that again she would have no further contact with her, and my mother has never written her another nasty letter. Mother has a hook in me if you like because she knows I will not totally abandon her,while my daughter would, and she knows that too, so she pushes the limits more with me.
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I sympathize with you! You are a wonderful person to be so selfless. But, one thing I suggest is this: You said that you have no pleasure, you need time to yourself to enjoy something. Otherwise, this will consume you with negativity and you will wind up the same way. (!) Find something or someone to enjoy to get pleasure out of. This will give you relief, and your health will improve. Guaranteed. Try it. Read, garden, cook or something.
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Hi again Emjo - you truly are a remarkable person! I am so very sorry to hear about your son - that must have been such a painful experience for you then to top it off you have to listen to your mother's remarks about him and the treatment he received; how very sad.
My father had just turned 62 (I'm sixty now!!) when he died of cancer but seriously, I think he had just had enough of my mother and her narcissism and perfectionism and drank himself to death as a way of escape. He passed away two months after he got his diagnosis of lung cancer. I had my two girls ages 8 and 5 and a husband who was out of the country/town on business all the time. My mother minded the girls while I went to my Dad's funeral but she had not one iota of sadness or anything to say about it and it make me sick. My father died while I was on the way to the hospital to see him and I didn't get there in time to say goodbye to him which has haunted me the rest of my life since then.
I could barely stand at the funeral and I didn't really want to go at all, I was in shock and still as of this day, I have never gone back to his gravestone.
As I see it, he did everything he could, bought her everything she wanted, said all the right things, took her where she wanted, etc. all to no avail -- it just wasn't enough, or good enough ....... nothing he ever did could have been. To me, he was the world, very handsome, very well known, knew a lot of celebrities, prestigious man in our community, great job, you name it. Very social and I really believe my mother was jealous of him. She badgered him incessantly with her accusations and, on his out-of-town trips, he would barely make it in the door after two long weeks of being away, before she would already be ferreting away in his suitcase for "evidence of the mischief he's been up to". Well, I wouldn't blame him if he had been up to anything!
My mother shoved me out the front door with a suitcase and a $10 bill when I was 20. It was her way of getting rid of me, for she must have been jealous of the relationship between my father and myself, and saw me as the catalyst for all the problems in their relationship - although we know who was really at fault.
My brother left home on his own at 16. He was never the same - once you've been made to feel unwanted, unwelcome and unloved, you just go the other direction.
Anyway I have really enjoyed your postings even though they are sad, as are mine. I also have a daughter with Asperger's so my plate has become a plate and a half. I had a very nasty incident with my mother tonight which I'll relate tomorrow - too exhausted right now mentally and physically.
But I do believe that by sharing our stories on here we can learn from each other, help and support each other and, above all, not feel that we are alone in this difficult journey we have undertaken.
Thanks for listening and be well - tomorrow is another day, Scarlett!! Thank God for AgingCare!
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Thx libra. I just wrote a long post and lost it. There are similarities in our histories. You have a daughter with Aspbergers, I have one with narcissistic tendencies like her grandmother and aunt (my sister). Sometimes I feel surrounded!
So sorry you had an incident with your mum. As always, look after you, and agreed, sharing is good and helpful.((((hugs))))

lyoung -you can't erase all the bad stuff from your mum's life - just not possible. She is living alone, and presumably still competent to make decisions for herself, even if you don't agree with them or even see then as potentially harmful. Sometimes it is a matter of let go, and let God - do the best you can within reason, and then let the chips fall where they may. You can't live her life for her, nor can you cushion the reality that she is losing control. It is something most face as they age - part of life. Sounds to me like you could benefit from getting your mind off mum for a bit, pursuing some other interests in your life, doing something that is enjoyable for you.
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She was at it again yesterday - putting her two cents' in about my graInddaughter again with her comments and judgments. I addressed it with her every time. One of the comments was "I don't see why the baby has to go to sleep on your bed - why can't she go home to her own bed?" (My daughter wasn't feeling well and the baby was tired so we put her on my bed - so what??)
I said to my mother "I don't see why you feel it necessary to dictate what you think should be done with the baby, to me - I am not her mother". She says, dismissing me from her doorway, "well off you go then - forget about it". You bet I will! Your way of not taking responsibility is to dismiss me rather than say you were just trying to help (NOT!!)and because you don't like what I say to you, it's easier for you to tell me to get lost! Always the way..........
Anyway I'm in the kitchen at 10 last night - she roars out of her bedroom with her "authoritative" voice - "I'm coming in - I'd like to speak to you." I said, okay, what do you need?"
With a long bony finger pointed in my direction, it's "There's a cheque written on my account! I didn't write it! I need an explanation! You people (last time I checked we were her FAMILY......)
I said, okay, let me see your bank statement and I will try to sort it out...as usual, I stay calm and do my best to be helpful. She always save these stunts for bedtime, later at night or first thing in the morning, for maximum drama and effect.
When she first came to live with us, she had new cheques printed up, with her name and my name on them. I looked in the record to see if I could figure out what the amount written to my husband was for, and I asked him but he had no recollection. Meanwhile, the other one is ranting on about how we are taking advantage of her, stealing her money right from under her nose, she's such a sucker (self-pitying) etc. I'm not one for confrontation, so I was determined to get to the bottom of it.
Lucky for me, on the back of this particular chequebook I had written down three amounts that totalled the same amount of this cheque, and remembered that I had written it to my husband. But instead of using one of my own cheques with my name on it, I had mistakenly taken one of her cheques with both our names on it! It was a MISTAKE!!
But i'm not ALLOWED to make any mistakes - only SHE is!
I went into her room and explained what had happened. Did I get an apology, you are wondering? Pigs might fly!! I sat right in front of her, and, using one of my own cheques, wrote her out a new one to pay her back. She just sat there, waiting.......I put the cheque on her nightstand and said, there you go, you are fully paid back from the mistake I made, it was an accident, you can run to the bank tomorrow and put your money back in.....NOW GOOD NIGHT! and shut the door.
Of course, this morning when I brought in her breakfast tray, it`s all sweetness and light.....no mention of anything but as I expected, the guilt over what she had done/said forced her to create a self-serving situation, so I also got "I think I've picked up a little cold." I hear this at least once a week and had to stifle a laugh at her attempt to garner sympathy for herself, when she spoke to me so rudely, so accusitorily, basically admitted that she didn't trust me, belittled and insulted me -- but THAT'S OK!!
Now she's fallen asleep at 10 in the morning. Yes, I realize I should be forgiving and polite - and of course, I am because that's how she raised me - but I am beyond sick of this do as I say, not as I do self-righteous crap she dishes out. Why, if I had accused her of something like this, it would be World War 3!!
Whenever she has done wrong and knows it, she just shifts and covers the blame and responsibility, will never admit she is wrong, will never apologize. I'm very sad to say that one of my daughters has inherited her EXACT personality and it is so upsetting to see a young person like her, so full of promise, so beautiful and smart, struggle with her problems with others, work, etc. because she is a clone of the "other one".
End of the story: I will be giving back her chequebook and I will not have anything to do with her banking. She is fully capable of doing it herself. Once we were cheated out of our rent for two months because she insisted that it had been paid (she had no proof of this and may have doctored a document or two -- nothing is beyond her when it comes to money).
These people are so toxic that there should be an island created just for them to live on and have to put up with each other - misery loves company - maybe an island like the one in Norway where that idiot when crazy and shot everyone!
(Kidding, people........)
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Libracat, your so funny! I like your idea of the island! I'd like to be able to say something helpful to you because I feel your stress. Unfortunately, the change here is that you must stop reacting - you see your reaction is her payoff! She knows she is pushing your buttons and keeping you upset! She will be in control of you as long as you keep reacting to what she says or does. Detach yourself from anything she says! Grunt if you need to but don't respond to her. Don't give her the satisfaction - let her stew in her juice so to speak! Walk away, call a friend, take a bath or show - simply tune her out! She'll get the message! Hope this helps! Easier said than done, I know!
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Libracat and emjo - thanks so much. You both make me feel normal with your understanding, because honestly, sometimes I start to wonder if maybe I'm being too hard on my mother, and I'm not being as sympathetic as I should be, and that maybe its all me, that maybe I'm really the problem, and that she's not really a difficult person and that I'm just bitchy and super-sensitive. She certainly has other people thinking that she's a sweet old lady. I hear how nice she is, and it really pisses me off. I swear, she makes me think I'm the nutty one. Emjo - I have a son, your son's age... I'm so sorry - I can't even begin to imagine how painful it was to lose him, and then to have your mother be so insensitive ... ugh. Libracat - I'd gladly put the one way tickets to Misery Island on my charge for our mom's. Maybe one way tickets to a war zone for mother's day for them? Mine, yours and emjo's, first class, lest they complain about coach seating. Oh, silly me... they'll have complaints, regardless! xxxooo, Judy
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It seems to be it would be better for both of you if your mother were in a nursing home. That way hopefully you could both enjoy your visits. She is toxic and will end up ruining your health with all the stress your living with. I wish the best for you both.
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libra- she will never admit that she is wrong, but will find every opportunity to show that you are - it is how she is. I am sorry that you too have a talented daughter with the same problems. My daughter is a Chartered Accountant and graduated with top marks, but can't stay in a job -she gets too stressed out and quits. I hate seeing her struggle, too, and it affects our relationship. Keep up your boundaries, I do wish you would look at alternatives. Like Eliza on another thread, it is not up to your mother whether or not she agrees to go into an ALF or NH. You are NOT obligated to keep her in your home.
golf - you are right, detachment...not easy but do-able.
judy - it is NOT you. Being sympathetic, I have found, does not help. Objectively assessing the situation does. The people who think she is a sweet litle old lady don't have to deal with her regularly. Thanks about my son - it was and still is some times excrutiatingly painful. You are right, there would still be complaints
amber - it is the only solution in my case. A narcissistic parent is toxic and affects your health. With the stress of moving mother, the first time, 2 years ago, I developed a systemic candidiasis infection that I am still battling, Stress affects your immune system. 45% of people who get this die. I have to take that seriously. I am better, but not out of the woods yet, and still in treatment. Mother, of course, doesn't even acknowledge most of the time, that I have any health problems, and still bombards me with requests - this morning it is that she wants to move into an ALF in another city. It is totally crazy. I find ignoring much is best. Sometimes she forgets.
((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))) to all
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First may I say a very Happy Mother's Day to all on this thread - even though it might be a difficult one - but hope you find a few small happinesses in it- I'm going to try.
OMG she's at it again - she doesn't STOP: anything left lying around is fair game - a load of my daughter's laundry, that I did for her, was left on a chair - I don't see why you have to do her laundry for her" - she's PREGNANT!! Are YOU doing it WHY do you even care?
My grandbaby is here today and I'm having a lovely time with her, but of course, she's fair game too - doesn't that baby ever get a full meal? she's drinking too much milk; she needs a hat on; that jacket isn't warm enough..........blah, blah blah ......do they do this to make themselves important? or to feel authoritative? or WHAT? because all the things she comments on are none of her business or her issues. After the towel remark I said, they are they for my daughter to pick up, not for you to comment on. But even that doesn't work!!
I won a small victory today - on taking the baby up to the coffee shop for a walk (she's a toddler) - I asked my mother if she wanted me to bring her something .
Of course she wanted a donut, not any donut it has to be a Boston Cream-filled for maximum calorific content.
Ok so as soon as we got ready to go she started up on me about the baby again "Oh how can that poor little thing walk all that way? That's mean, making her do that." So I said, "Fine - if you keep badgering me about the baby then we're not going and you'll be out of a donut." Good one, huh? That shut her up in a hurry!!
No amount of telling her stops her for long though. It starts up as soon as she finds something to beef about. How can somebody live so long when they are so full of negativity?
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PS: "You certainly seem to spend an awfully long time every day on that computer - I don't see the attraction"
Next breath: "Look up this recipe for me - I wrote down the website"
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((((((((((((libra)))))))))))) I know it never stops and nothing you say makes much of a difference, for long. The stress you are under is huge!
Some studies have shown that crabby negative seniors live longer than quiet ones -and their caregivers die earlier. I take that seriously. They always have another job for you, I know. Glad you are enjoying your grandbaby. Hugs to her from me.
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Thanks, Emjo! Hope you are having a good day out West! :o)
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Just got another dosage: "Where is your daughter? Have you heard from here? What's taking her so long..........she's been gone an awfully long time!
That baby (by the way THAT BABY is YOUR granddaughter!!) has been here all day and she needs to get her home to bed!" WHY????? she isn't bothering anyone and.......are YOU looking after her? I just want to walk into her room with a big giant STOP sign and hang it on the wall in front of her..........lay off already!!
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Sorry, great-granddaughter.........yes I DO make the occasional mistake :o) and I'm allowed to!
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You most definitely are allowed, libra. You are human. "Enough already" I could write it on my forehead. It eats at you doesn't it? (((((hugs))))
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Hello
Hugs to all for being there for the elderly. My mom is in NH. I can't blame her for not liking where she is. but it's safe place and many other good things about it.
I am planning a trip to visit my adult daughters. I guess it seems like when ever I leave town her personality changes. She will not eat, she gives the aids a challenging argument and excuses for getting out of bed. Then when she's ready, the aid is not quickly available. I am very sensitive to her behavior. She is sneaky, and very dramatic. Is this all part of alz/dementia and narsistic behavior. The only thing she is in control of is food and getting out of bed. Nobody can force her. This behavior is not really unusual for her reaction. It's just that it is more about her not wanting to live when I go out of town. We need the chance to be ourselves. I think of my mom practically 24/7. I just hope I don't bring up these behaviors with my daughters when I am her age. They don't know why I tolerate this behavior. I try to not argue and remind my self to redirect cause there is that possibility it may work. Thank you for listening. Take care of yourselves .
Equinox
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Hi Equinox, your posting is right on the money. Of COURSE she is going to behave that way when you are planning to go out of town - the focus is off of her, and she is guilting you for "abandoning" her. I get this every time I have a family event, or try to "escape" on my own for a little shopping, or just to get out of the house.
Whenever I do get out and return, she has always fabricated a life-threatening event. "I almost choked to death when you were gone", "what will I do while you're out if I need help - oh I'll just call 911, they'll come and break the door down"........I should have seen this coming 25 yrs ago when she started harping at me about not having my driver's licence, and then it was "what will happen to me when I take sick?" (at that time there was absolutely nothing wrong with her.
She has sabotaged many, many happy events in my life because of her need for narcissistic supply, including my daughter's wedding and other important things such as the births of my grandchildren. If one of her friends becomes ill, she has to as well, to upstage them and get the attention.
I firmly believe that their behaviour stems from narcissism/personality disorder coupled with insecurity, need for control and loneliness. The interesting part of this is that my mother lived alone in her apartment for 40 yrs.!! and wanted it that way!
Now that she has fallen several times (with and without us being here) there is always that fear on my part that when I do go anywhere, it will happen but then of course I will be blamed for it. I have suggested having a care worker to come and stay with her while we are gone but she will not pay for it.
Yes, they are sneaky and dramatic and histrionic. They also lie and deny anything that will make them guilty of doing something.
When I am out she will go all over the house, reading things that she shouldn't and because she has this fear (insecurity) of being left out and has to know everything in case she misses something or gets the impression she is being taken advantage of, coupled with her suspicious and untrusting nature, there is a fair amount of snooping going on......I know this because one day she had blurted out of the blue that she had read a bank statement in the kitchen -- of course it didn't belong to her and she had no right doing that. Woe to those who would do that to her!!
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(((seven)))) Oh my, do I recognise those tactics!!!!
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That sounds remarkably like my mother.
Never at loss for a negative comment: check
Favors the male child (who is not doing anything for her): check
Trying to do positive things for her is seen as "going behind her back": check
I'm also depressed, and it's taking a toll on me as well.

Could your mother possibly have a mental illness? I ask because part of my mother's issues is that she's been diagnosed with paranoia (and probably depression as well). If that's the case, maybe her doctor can prescribe her something that will make her moods more stable. Even if she doesn't need psychotropic medications, her doctor may be able to choose medications that have a mildly sedating effect or medications that are less likely to contribute to her irritability.

Sometimes it feels like I have made a lot of accomodations and received very little appreciation, so I can relate to your situation. If you can arrange for a caregiver while you go on vacation, go for it! It's good to have a break so you can have time to concentrate on yourself. Take care.
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Emjo, I bet you do!!
Tired, I would love it if I could get her to her family dr. for an assessment, however: she will not let me in with her to see her dr., nor will she tell me the truth about what she says (by the time she gets home from her appt. she has some dire disease that she has fabricated and I get none of the truth of what the dr. says) and also: she is so skilled at wangling the younger dr.s (which he is) that she just denies she has any problems health- or mental-wise. In fact she tried to convince them that she never had cancer , lies about having diabetes and maintains that she never had 3 heart attacks!! She's got an answer for everything!
She doesn't want us, her family, to know the truth about what is wrong with her (when there IS something wrong with her), that way she can manipulate the information to tell her friends how dire things are with her, and get the attention she wants. Sounds desperate, doesn't it??
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hello
before I ever leave town I always make sure there are two relatives who visit her regularly in town. Her sister, which is 86 and goes in once a week and my daughters mil goes in to visit once a week and now another church friend offered to visit. Mom recognizes each one and remembers that she is expecting a visit. I do get a breather on those days however I can't plan anything cause they can cancel there visiting days. Typically if I have gone in everyday during the week I can pick and choose a day for me. Like today. her sister visited yesterday and I'm getting some things necessary before my leaving to my 2 daughters. I'm sure she will be fine. I asked many CNA to watch for signs of depression and excuses of " poor me" attitude and I want to die attitude" . When I return everybody tells me how good her attitude was without me. last week she decided to express those feelings. Nowthere is a new baby expected in the family and I'm so certain there is concern of jealousy. I assured her when the baby comes and he will be happy to meet all the grandmothers. And also I am going to attend my youngest daughter graduation from her fellowshiP of her specialty in OBGYN. I am so excited to have this opportunity. I wish my mom would be there . But not under those circumstance it's not possible and not realistic. Thanks all for listening and your supportive comments. Hugs and more Hugs
Equinox
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Guilt is a very powerful emotion but so is love. So learn to love yourself before you fall into an early grave. You can't take care of this miserable old woman albeit that she is your mother from the grave. If you stay healthy and sane you can insure Mom is properly cared for in a facility. ALF is not the answer because she deliberately won't take care of herself. She has to be in a NH where she will be looked after, properly supervised and controlled
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