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Hello, please know I feel like a fool. So, my grandparents have always helped me with money when needed. No illegal activity or drugs, just married young with kids and broke. Anytime I asked for help they gladly did it. Honestly, if they hadn’t, I would have stopped asking. We were very close. They got me a car when I needed it, very fortunate to be able to help. I am POA, signed all the stuff. I think I will be executor when the time comes. They have everything in an estate that I do not manage (that has more than enough for them to live comfortably) except a checking account for anything needed. I am an owner also on the account. Long ago I started writing checks to myself when needed-and agreed on, they knew! They also help pay for my kids school. So one has passed and one has dementia. I do the same as I always have, if I need help with bills I write a check. Saw something on TV about embezzlement and decided to google it. Am I committing embezzlement? I feel like a total idiot and I am terrified. I never ever would pay for anything I thought they would say no to. Do I need a lawyer? Please any advice appreciated please know I feel absolutely horrible.

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In a nutshell, yes you are committing embezzlement. This is pure elder abuse. Just because you love them and they freely gave you money in the past does not mean you can just write yourself a check and it doesn't mean that you haven't been abusing the situation. This is robbery. You feel horrible? Did you not realize how wrong it was to write yourself a check from their account? Stop it immediately. If you have financial problems, you need to solve those yourself and not keep leaning (or robbing) your grandparents. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it should be harsh. Their money is for THEM only and their care.
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MargaretMcKen Sep 19, 2024
In a nutshell, this is defamatory. That's a lot clearer than 'embezzlement'.
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You are committing theft and elder abuse.
Are you telling us there is some question in your mind about that?
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MargaretMcKen Sep 19, 2024
Alva, your judgement is clear in your own mind, but the situation is not. OP says 'they knew, and it was agreed on'. If that's true, the problem is documentation, not criminality.
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If the one that is living has enough money to privately pay for her care for at least 5 years you should be OKAY as far as her getting Medicaid coverage down the road if needed. It all depends on how much money she has. You should stop writing checks for yourself out of her account right now though. No need for a lawyer at this point, where the potential problem may arise is if she needs to apply for long term care Medicaid. Medicaid workers will look at her financial transactions over the past 5 years and question unusual withdrawals and transfers. If it gets to that point, you will have to explain yourself.
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Katybr Sep 19, 2024
Yes, you are correct, mstrbill. That 5 year look back is what will cause trouble. The fact that the grandparents always offered to help financially is hard to forget. They were generous and kind to offer. The dementia diagnosis is what may cause issues. My MIL does NOT have any dementia or even forgetfulness and is 100 years old. She is constantly asking me if she can help out since her son (my husband) is in skilled nursing with FTD and I’m overwhelmed. I’m her POA, Executor, Trustee and total beneficiary of her estate. I pay all her bills. I take care of all her needs even though she’s living independently in a retirement village.
She is so sharp that she asked me if I’d make a spreadsheet of all my monthly expenses and asked for a grand total to help me with the house. Can you imagine? A 100 yr. old wanting a spreadsheet, but, her deceased husband made them all the time. I couldn’t do it. But, I will take some money here and there. I know a lot about Medicaid lookback, etc. as we have an elderlaw attorney. We were advised to open up a Disabled Child account for her to “gift” money. That is Medicaid exempt. I questioned it over and over, but, attorneys for the bank that reviewed the application said it’s done all the time. It’s unusual because of the gifter is the older person and the recipient is her 76 year old son! Usually, people are in the opposite situation. Two of his doctor specialists must write certified letters to the bank and the attorney must write a letter stating the “child” (age isn’t a factor - he’s her son no matter what) is 100% disabled. He is terminal now and has very little time. MIL is hoping I take something now before I go broke. I pay over $16,00/month for his care. I doubt she’ll need Medicaid as she has 7 figures, but, life is strange and you never know…….. so far, she’s lost all her adult children and husband.
Sorry I went on and on, but, there are so many individual situations that require explanation before someone is labeled a thief, evil, embezzler, etc. I know when my own parents were alive my mother (no dementia) gave me her checkbook and said “help yourself because I don’t need all that money!” I wanted to go shopping with a friend and she gave me a check for $10,000 and said “have fun”! My dad was even more generous. I guess I was blessed, but, not with my wonderful husband’s illness. I’d give it all back to have him and his brain normal again.
I don’t think Boucheran should be made to feel like a criminal when she was offered help all her life. She feels weird about it now because her family dynamic has changed with a death and dementia so give her some credit. That’s why she asked the question.
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Your remaining grandparent has dementia , meaning she/he is no longer competent to agree to you writing gift checks to yourself . As POA you are committing financial abuse of an elder.

You should return the money you have been taking from the remaining grandparent with dementia .

If this grandparent needs Medicaid within 5 years of the last time you gifted yourself , you could potentially be in trouble with the law . As well as your grandparent would be denied Medicaid .

I don’t understand why you thought it was morally ok to continue to write yourself checks when the grandparent with dementia is no longer competent .

You rationalize it by saying they always had enough to live on and they’ve always agreed to it before and now only feel bad when you find out you are embezzling .
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As their poa, you took on responsibility to have their money doled out for THEIR needs. Not your kids’ private school, not your own family’s stuff. The only thing you can hope for truly is that the surviving spouse here does not need Medicaid in the next five years as you’ve been gifting yourself.

Your grandparents are not your atm.
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Boucheran Sep 18, 2024
You are absolutely right. Luckily money is not an issue for them. I will say the school was agreed on before the POA was needed, they knew about it and initially offered. Thank you for your response.
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I’m baffled at anyone freely taking money from a person with dementia simply because they got used to doing so and it was okay sometime in the past. Bet you wouldn’t have a leg to stand on legally. Try some personal responsibility instead of using a person with dementia as your bank
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Everything's in an estate that you do not manage, ie what does this mean? That you aren't a trustee? Or not a financial planner? How are you able to write out checks without the estate manager(s) knowing it?
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KPWCSC 12 hours ago
We have a trust but none of our savings or checking accounts are included so yes it is possible. The trust can have totally different managers than the accounts.
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I’m baffled at anyone freely taking money from a person with dementia simply because they got used to doing so and it was okay sometime in the past. Bet you wouldn’t have a leg to stand on legally. Try some personal responsibility instead of using a person with dementia as your bank
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There are a lot of things our op left out.

If she’s the actual poa why doesn’t she know about this estate that apparently is taking care of the demented grandma?
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By "estate" do you mean Trust? My concern would be if whoever is the Trustee(s), since it is not you, starts asking questions about the grandparent's other financial affairs and starts pointing fingers. While you may be POA and have legal rights to write checks you also have to be accountable for the funds if not now, possibly after the grandparent dies. You say the estate "has more than enough for them to live comfortably" but that is only your opinion. Unexpected things happen every day that can put someone in financial jeopardy. As we grow older, it is very common to be concerned we will outlive our savings no matter how large. If your grandparent ever expresses that concern, someone may begin questioning the records or lack of records. While you may not have done anything "illegal" if it were me, I would be concerned about the "what ifs" that could easily come to pass. As others have suggested, consider that account off limits unless you can justify the spending with documentation available if ever questioned.
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