Long story short...my mother liquidated all her assets and purchased a home for my brother and his wife in 2021 where she was supposed to live out her days. SIL became abusive within 3 months and I allowed my mother to move in with me in March 2022. It was a huge mistake - it was pure hell. She has many health issues including demensia, BPD, NPD, bipolar, etc...She only has about 1300 a month coming in and with your help, my husband and I got her out and into an AL for 1300 a month in July 2023. Well, she's been evicted because of her behavior she has 30 days which can be escalted to 5 if she continues. She will not be coming back here. What are my responsibilities and obligations. Do I call APS? All advise is very welcomed. Thank you.
If so, and if your Mom is so bad as to be incompetent in her own care now, then YOU are the one responsible.
If she isn't, then I don't know what to say. She gave up her home. At this point she is homeless and mentally ill. Not a good combo for certain.
You didn't cause any of this.
You can't fix any of this.
Yes, I would call APS about this pending eviction.
And I would not accept POA for a person mentally ill.
I must have already recommended the memoir by Liz Scheier called Never Simple.
If I didn't, order it today.
Ms Scheier worked for decades to get care for her mentally challenged Mom, and along with the social care auspices of the city and state of New York was unable to do any appreciable good for her mother who in fact DID end out of control, homeless. But not before almost taking her daughter down with her. While this book will be no comfort for you it will let you know that A) There is nothing you can do and B) Trying could well take you down before Mom
So your brother and SIL are going to have their world turned upside down. ALL that money that she spent on their behalf? I assume she'll be going on medicaid and they will not tolerate that HUGE expenditure.
I assume your mom is not properly medicated for all her issues. If she was, she probably would not be getting kicked out of AL.
If you are really wanting to wash your hands of her, I guess APS is the only answer.
Sorry you've been through the wringer on this one.
Thank you for the info on letting APS know that I am no longer taking care of her. That's my plan. I just hope there are no loop holes that force me to do so.
Are you able to do that?
Has she been diagnosed?
Given any medication?
This is important to know.
You likely need legal advice (aside from comments here) as perhaps each state is different. Contact APS too - ask them.
I would imagine (I do not know) that if no one claims her that she would be a ward of the state. Although depends on what legal executed documents are in order.
Good that you will not allow her to return to your home.
Gena / Touch Matters
Can't sell the house. Mom agreed to allow them to put title in their names only.
Yes. She's been diagnosed and takes meds.
I just remembered she likely will not qualify for medicaid because she still needs another 2 years for the Look Back period.
Not taking her back under any circumstances, including homelessness. She has been here twice and both times were unbearable. I will not sacrafice my life. Not to mention...my husband and I work full time and cannot take care of her even if she was the best mom ever.
Did your mom purchase the house for her son and daughter in law specifically because she needed a place to live? Do you feel like they were using her or taking advantage of her because things didn’t work out with you?
Did you know that only your brother and his wife’s name was going to be on the deed?
Did anyone advise your mom not to purchase a home for her son and daughter in law and move in with them?
This is a messy situation for sure. I don’t know how you can correct these poor decisions now.
Your mom’s money should have been reserved for her care, especially since she isn’t able to get along with her family.
You mom neglected to have some type of legal agreement in writing stating that she was going to be allowed to live with your brother and his wife for the duration of her life. Now she is paying the price for it not working out.
Is your mother seeing a psychiatrist to monitor her condition? Do you think her meds need tweaking?
I am glad that you know not to take her back in with you.
Good luck in resolving this issue. Wishing you all the best.
I have not really spoken to her except on a few occassions since she went into the AL. She has been very nasty towards me unlesss she wants something. I don't know what health care she is currently getting. She changed her Medicare plan without speaking to me about it and rambles on about how the new Medicare plan is going to find her a better place to live for free. She has overdrawn her accounts and I have had to move the very little she has ($600) into another account so that she doesn't spend that too. I don't know what to do with her and quite frankly, I don't want anything to do with her.
I know that is a mean thing to say, but she was a very poor mother and turned into a demanding, mean old lady.
You surely have a serious problem on your hands! Merry Christmas (hopefully it is.)
I'm not sure what you mean by hurt me in the long run...I haven't done anything except pay her bills when she returned to Arizona. I made the initial complaint to APS about the financial fraud and they told me to hire an attorney. I have no interest in using my money to do so. Nor do I feel obligated to.
She made her bed. She can sleep in it. I would do nothing. Let the state deal with her.
You say in your answers to us that you are POA and you are ACTING AS SUCH by paying mom's bills with mom's money. I hope you are keeping meticulous records.
You say that in your opinion she is no longer competent but she doesn't agree.
Competency is not a matter of opinion.
It must be declared by a court. You cannot act against your mom's wishes if she is competent and if she is incompetent you are RESPONSIBLE for her as her POA. And cannot resign without the court involved which means you need an attorney whether you WANT one of not. If you are acting POA then you have your mother's money to pay for an attorney in her interests.
If I were you I would see an attorney paid for by your mother's money and would rresign as POA.
Whether Mom assigns the brother or not I wouldn't care a fig.
I would walk away and have a life.
You say you ALREADY went to APS and they told you to get an attorney.
DO SO.
Later you tell us you WILL go to APS.
This whole screnario is just too complicated I am afraid.
You will have to continue on doing as you have been doing which as you can see has not worked and will not work, or you can resign and have a life.
I don't see a whole lot of other answers on this one.
And whatever you do, do not let this woman back into your home. Or if you do, don't come to Forum with answers on whether we can give any advice, because it will just be more of the usual ongoing disaster if you do that, and I can't imagine how we could help.
I think the records I am keeping are pretty solid. I have separate accounts so everything I am spending on her and her income is all separate from my accounts. I would hire an attorney...but my mom has no more money other than what is coming into pay for her AL. And I don't want to use my money. So, I am really hoping that AlvaDeer's response comes to fruition.
According to APS, in Arizona, I don't need the court to handle POA. But since she is diagnosed with Dementia, I cannot withdraw. I can find another competent person to take over. Problem is...there is only me and my brother or pay an attorney to file for a public fiduciary.
Your brother the 'Golden Child' who she bought a house for can sort her out and get her placed in memory care. Trust me when I tell you that word gets around quick on the AL circuit. These places communicate with each other. If she got evicted for bad behavior at the one she's at now it's not likely there will be another in the area who will take her in.
I wouldn't worry too much about it though. The AL wants her out and they have evicted her. They're just blowing smoke about throwing her out though. They have to keep her until there is a new care plan and a safe place for her because she has dementia, is an elder, and has other health issues. If they just threw her out into the street with nowhere to go, that would be an unsafe discharge and that spells lawsuit for them and they know it.
You can communicate with AL and even ask them to help get her placed. They will get her placed. In the meantime, you know better than to get talked into taking her in again.
Let the AL take it into court for conservatorship. They will. When they do this, you go to court and relinquish your POA formally. The state will appoint a social worker, a lawyer, or a care manager to act as her conservator then. This person will take over her finances and be responsible to get her placed and to make her health and financial decisions.
If this person is incompetent and she is POA she is responsible.
She can walk away only when the court allows it.
An ALF isn't going to place her and doesn't have to.
They aren't under the same rules as a nursing home.
They are doing what legally they have to which is informing the POA.
My brother was in ALF. When he went in he and I both as resident and POA signed we understood the circumstances under which he could be EVICTED, and that's exactly what they do. Furniture right out the door.
Graci is wanting both to be responsible and not be.
She says she cannot use an attorney, but as POA she can.
She says she has called APS and they said she should get an attorney.
Then she says she WILL call APS.
Truth is this is a mess in which she claims this woman is incompetent but the mother herself doesn't think she is incompetent. Incompetence and POA don't work this way. Graci needs an attorney for education on POA and for advice how to move forward, and as she is already writing out checks as POA on mom's money that will just be one more she writes out.
You are your mother’s POA and paying her bills. You aren’t going to allow her to return to your home.
You don’t have a meaningful relationship with your mother.
I don’t understand why you haven’t spoken with an attorney to determine what comes next for you and your mother since you don’t want to be involved with her.
Old Dude, the 16k a year IRS allows, is not allowed by Medicaid. Any large amounts given within the 5 yr look back are considered a gift. And penalties will be given.
No Gracie you did nothing wrong. Mom and brother went behind your back. And its not fair that you should sort it all out. Tell AL to call your brother and tell him he needs to pick up Mom. He reaped all the rewards of being her son. If brother is not forthcoming tell AL to call APS and give them brothers phone#. When APS calls you, you then tell them Mom paid for brothers home with the agreement she would live there too. That you feel brother reaped the rewards, he should care for Mom. All you have gotten are the headaches. She has a mental illness that she does not take care of and you can't deal with and her Dementia. She needs to be in a facility. You have done ur share, now brother needs to step up to the plate. If he won't, then the State will need to take over.
When someone is incompetent it becomes a legal matter to resign POA as the POA must be assigned by the courts to appoint a Licensed Fiduciary through the courts to oversee the care of the person.
The POA is also responsible for letting all entities (banks, medical and etc) that they have resigned POA. This all becomes a legal action requiring guidance of an attorney in almost all states.
When you think of it it makes sense. Say I, Alva, appoint my daughter as POA. Then I become so demented she cannot handle me. If she just walks away how can I care for myself?
Here from aging care how to resign as POA:
https://www.agingcare.com/articles/can-a-caregiver-change-a-loved-ones-power-of-attorney-137706.htm
If she hasn't been officially declared as being incompetent or with dementia you would not have to find someone else to take over as POA. If she has then you might be in a bit of a pickle there.
Hugs 🤗
Finally, I called APS and placed my report. Of course, the intake person asked if I can do this or that or all these other things to help. I politely told her that I am not interested in doing anything else for my mother. I have already done enough and I am tired of being abused by her. I then told her, that I was making the call so that you could help her with the resources she needs.
4 hour stand off with numerous police cars, crisis intervention, fire department to get her to go to the hospital. Please know that she was verbally abusive to all the first responders. She pulled her pants down in the front yard in front of everyone including the neighbors and peed right in front of everyone. It was like she was demon possessed. I don't know where they took her and I don't care.
At the same time this was going on, I basically stayed in my locked house and came out through the side gate to talk to the first responders every now and then. But inside, I was calling my dad and husband to give them the updates.
About half way through the ordeal, my dad says guess who's here. I said who. He says, your brother. Mind you my brother hasn't taked to my dad since taking my mom's money about 3 years ago. Anyway...long story short, there is a posibility that he will be taking her back to his house and I will withdraw my POA or transfer it to him.
Well there you have it. My crazy life. I am hoping to get back to my normal life very soon.
"I have no power to fix this.
I didn't cause this and I can't change it.
This is not within my power to deal with. Others will have to step in "
So relieved you are giving up POA but you must do this legally. You cannot give this to your brother. He cannot get it from someone incompetent. You Mom will likely go to state guardianship now, but that isn't your problem. Your problem now to is resign LEGALLY.
I REPEAT, GRACI. YOU MUST RESIGN LEGALLY BECAUSE YOUR MOTHER IS NOT COMPETENT. UNTIL YOU DO THAT A NOTARIZATION IS NOTHING; IT ATTESTS ONLY TO YOUR SIGNATURE. YOU NEED TO SEE AN ATTORNEY ABOUT HOW TO RESIGN LEGALLY WITH AN INCOMPETENT MOTHER.
I have now written this to you about 40 times. A notary means nothing legally. A notary only means that your signature is your signature. You have to resign legally when it is an incompetent person. Call APS first and ask them how you can resign POA in your state when the person is already incompetent. They perhaps can guide you.
If not you MUST MUST MUST pay an attorney to guide you in legally resigning.l
Again, I am so relieved you are finally getting out of this. Please don't get entangled again. But you have to resign the right way or the authorities can claim you abandoned your mother.
So, after the Monday standoff on my porch, my brother popped into the picture and is now trying to blackmail me with a list of demands I must fulfill if he's going to take her back.
My mom called my dad and told him that she is going to make my life a living hell and get revenge on me for not letting her come back to live with me and if that means she is going to come to my porch everday - then thats what shes going to do.
Just to be clear, my mother shouted the most nasty vulgar langage towards me that anyone can imagine. Her eyes looked like she was posessed. She did the same to the first responders.
Tuesday, I get a call from the charge nurse at the hospital who then decided to bully me. Telling me that my mother is ready for discharge and they will be sending her to my home. I told the CN that "no, she has a home at the AL and you can discharge her there. He told me "no, she doesn't want to go there she wants to come to your house and you are her daughter and thats the way its going to be."
Because of all of you...I said "no, she does not live her. That would be an unsafe discharge as my husband and I are at work, and cannot care for her, she has a home at the AL." I am not her POA and don't want anything to do with her. Please contact her son if you are looking for family or take her back to the AL. I then hung up.
Today I got a voicemail from my mother who was as sweet as could be telling me how much she loved me and will continue to love me no matter what.
I also got a call from APS. They were just trying to be kind and give me a heads up...she said she visited my mom who is at her AL and she told me that my mom has some sort of vendetta against me and told APS that she will be continuing to come to my house and sit on my porch because she doesn't want to live at the AL. the APS lady told her you cannot do that. You don't live there and your daughter doesn't want you there. You will be arrested for trespassing. She said she didn't care. The APS lady said she recommended that I put up a "no trespassing sign."
It is because of all of you that I gained the knowledge and backbone I needed to handle this and I thank all of you for your recommendations and support.
I moved our family Christmas celebrations to my son's house (mom doesn't know where he lives) so we won't have drama.
So sorry that you are going through all of this. Wishing you peace. Enjoy Christmas with your son.
Stay safe and have a peaceful Christmas. Perhaps a call to the non-emergency Community Police line to discuss is in order. There may be a special unit that deals with mentally ill stalkers.
I would be very surprised if this is different in the USA. I’m writing this because some of the posts read to me as if they are saying that the person with the POA is responsible for ensuring good care. If someone with real legal knowledge would clarify this, I’d be grateful.