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So she screams.

So what?

(That is a quote from NeedsHelpWithMom's therapist)

Your parents need help. They need far more help than YOU can provide. But they need you a heck of a lot more than you need them.

Next time your mother abuses you verbally, screams or otherwise shows you disrespect, ask her what her plan is if you were to turn and walk away forever. "Because, mom, if you treat me like that, I'm walking away".

Do not say that unless you mean it. My DH used this on his mom (she had another child who accepted the abuse as his lot in life). My DH walked away and has never had a moment of regret.
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NeedHelpWithMom Jan 2023
Barb,

Your last line is so helpful. Everyone who has ever struggled with their decision to walk away could learn a lesson from your DH.

“My DH walked away and never had a moment of regret.”

People need to know that it is okay on the other side of caregiving. They don’t have to be consumed with guilt. I think for those raised in FOG, we believed that the guilt will eat us alive if we walk away.

In reality, it is a huge relief to walk away and there is nothing to regret.

The time we spent in caregiving we can never get back. The things that we missed out on are gone. Those are my regrets.

Life is short and sometimes it is a huge balancing act. When it is out of balance, we suffer horribly.
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Max, you wrote: "You guys are so right about a plan. We were just saying if we were killed on this highway (hope not) what plan do they have? 

Max, YOU are so right! I am SO glad you see it clearly now.

Your parents' caretaking plan all along is you. You be the nurse, the maid, the cook, the azz wiper, the shopper, the driver, etc., live-in, 24/7/365.

Instead of "if we were killed on this highway...what plan do they have?", replace it with:

Mom, dad, I need to take care of my health problems. I can't be your caregiver, what's your plan? (Repeat again and again as necessary.)
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Max, I'm very happy that you are detached from your parents day-to-day life. Your Mom only cared about you to the point of what you could do for them. You were no longer their daughter, you were their slave. Your Mom saying "I love you" is classic abuse after all you went through. To her credit, she was also probably caught up in the entitlement cycle. Hopefully, she will recognize this and take corrective action in the future.

Learn to manage from afar. You can do it. Everyone has emergencies. However, what is determined as an emergency is different amongst us. By learning to manage from afar, you will be able to save your strength and energy for the true emergencies.

Congrats to you and your husband to finally just walking out. Please take care of yourself.

P.S. Renting is a great way to help with the money outflow. It is even better if you can get a positive monthly cashflow without including the depreciation.
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Love you guys and your replies. Read your posts to my husband and he agrees with everyone one of them. We are mentally and physically exhausted. We stopped off for a delicious spicy chicken sandwich to take home and we can't wait to retire to bed when WE want to and watch OUR movies. 💋to everyone!
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Max,

It’s great hearing you speak about going to Europe!

When you get there, let us know and I’ll open a bottle of wine to share a toast with you!
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MaximusRomeo Jan 2023
Can't wait to have wine tonight - want to join us? ❤️
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Breathe.
Simplify.
Drive the car home. To YOUR home (not theirs).

Telephones are wonderful things. Use them.

If parents ring with an emergency, tell them to hang up & call 911.

If/when they land in hospital, you will have time to arrange a call to their medical team. About their condition, about discharge plans, about their potential need of a Social Worker.

Drive home. Unpack. Put your feet into you OWN life again.
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By the way, my husband and I are both in favor of a nursing facility when needed. First of all, when we travel and retire to Europe we're thinking about renting our condo - just like they rented theirs. I
can imagine the screaming that's going to happen.
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Beatty Jan 2023
Move that focus. Away from any future fantasy reaction, any possible screaming. That's just your brain inventing some future drama for entertainment.

Focus on getting home.
Then on some sensible research & action.

Have you heard of the 6 thinking hats? I love them! Time to try on some new hats!! Less red hat. More white hat.
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I doubt if your Dad will be able to get operated on in another State. Medicare no problem but supplements don't go from State to state unless Medigap. My DH was a UAW worker and ours may go state to state. My sister had cancer at 42 and wanted to have her chemo near home. She lived 2hrs away and 2 sm states away. Her insurance would not allow it so my Mom spent 8 months caring for sister at her house.

Max, this IS IT! This is when Mom and Dad have to finally see that they can't continue like this. I am going to be blunt. What would they have done if you had died. Your husband cannot be expected to take on that burden, its not his parents. You have had a serious scare. YOUR health is on the line. Why should ur husband loose you because of the selfishness of your parents. Its time that you parents are told they need to go into AL. Sell the house to pay for it. But you no longer can be at their beck and call. They need care that you no longer can give. If they loved you they would let you have a life. And do not pay their way. When the money runs out they can go into LTC together.

". I felt my chest exploding. I can't breathe!" Do you realize that chemo can effect the heart. What you are feeling is anxiety and not good. You also are worrying about something that may not happen. No need to worry because your answer should be NO and your husband should be there to back you up. NO Dad you cannot recuperate here. NO Dad you can't move in with us because...we will not be here all year long. NO Dad, caring for you and Mom stresses me out. Getting too old to deal with you and your problems, you have to figure it out on your own. (Senior caring for a Senior) If you finally go into AL we can help you with the move but you have to do the work.

If you get any calls from SWs, you tell them you cannot care for your parents the way they want. You don't live in the same State. You are a cancer survivor and the stress causes you anxiety, which u don't need. You have tried but they want it their way. No living with you is not an option. What they need is someone who can find them the resources they need because you can no longer be that resource. Again the answer is NO! You have finally throw you hands in the air and say "I am done!"

I am actually getting anxiety writing this. I am so happy my parents were not like this. There comes a time you have to stop banging your head against the wall. Its called tough love even with 90 yr old people. If you ever feel Mom and Dad need help, you call APS and allow them to take over. They have brought this on themselves by being to stubborn to see what they need to do. Burnt says: "Nothing will get an elder a one-way ticket to a nursing home faster than being stubborn".
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Max,

I know that it seems like everything is up in the air right now but one thing is for certain. You aren’t the one to do the heavy lifting.

Your health is equally important to your parents. Even if you didn’t have health issues, your life is just as important as theirs.

It may appear as if there is no end in sight, which is extremely unnerving.

There is an end in sight. It does require that your parents accept that they must enter a facility. They don’t have money for private caregivers and you can’t accept that responsibility any longer.

Your husband is confused right now. He is loving and compassionate like you are. Please explain to him that a nursing home is the ONLY solution for this situation.

Maybe you see your parents as young at heart. In reality, your parents are old and will only require more care as time goes by. They are never going to be able to be independent again. You know this.
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MaximusRomeo Jan 2023
Oh no, my husband actually meant a nursing home.
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Max, in what way do you find your parents to be planful? Or thoughtful?

Giving all their money to your abusive brother was a plan?

It sounds to me like like your parents have basically brainwashed you.

From what you've written, they sound thoughtless, selfish, manipulative and deeply abusive to you.

I'm just going by your description of their behavior.
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Would it be possible for your father to go to rehab after hernia surgery ? I don’t know how long recovery for that is but my husband is getting that next week. Still doesn’t solve what to do with your mom if he could go. What about respite in AL for her while he recovers. Don’t let them in your house as them will never leave.
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NeedHelpWithMom Jan 2023
Rehab is a great suggestion! My mom and dad always improved in rehab. Plus, the family can be at peace knowing that he is being cared for.
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You guys are so right about a plan. We were just saying if we were killed on this highway (hope not) what plan do they have? I know they did have a discussion about a nursing home, but my husband said to me that's not a plan - which nursing home? They refused to acknowledge they were aging. For such intelligent and usually thoughtful planning people - what happened? It's not our responsibility. We have no kids and one of us will be alone and we are going to make a plan for us soon and it's our responsibility! If I was sick again, I would never live with my parents and burden them.
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NeedHelpWithMom Jan 2023
It’s true, Max. Parents should not rely on their children to help them throughout their entire lives. It’s too much to expect from a child.
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Max; breathe. In and out.

YOU are allowed to say "No, I can't possibly do that".

You love your parents. THAT doesn't mean that you have to say yes to everything they ask.

Your parents (not you) have made some really poor choices in life and they have balanced their well-being on your and your husband's backs. That needs to stop, now.

They presumably have Social Security and are eligible for Medicaid. They and you need to investigate how to navigate the social services system in Florida because that's where they live. If they want to move (on THEIR dime) to your area, they will need to investigate what services are available THERE.

You are their consultant and manager, NOT their caregiver. You are a senior yourself and a cancer patient. Your parents need whatever professional care THEY can afford.

Start tomorrow by calling the local Area Agency on Aging in their county in Florida to find out how to get them help. Just remember that one of the choices is not YOU.
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Hi Everyone It's Max. Thanks for being concerned. My dad said his hernia popped out because of his bathroom issues, but he'll be seeing his doctor. We did not return and if he had to have surgery we did not know what we would do. You are all so right about our and their lack of planning. My Dad called us in his car on the way to the supermarket before and sounded strange and wanted to know what our status was driving and said mom's at home and we asked what's up because we just stopped at a rest area. We asked can we call him back, which we did and he picked up and we got disconnected and he never called back. I'm actually feel like vomiting because I have a feeling they're going to ask us if they can get the hernia operation done in DC and stay with us which will be months or tell us they want to live with us permanently. I felt my chest exploding. I can't breathe!
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MaximusRomeo Jan 2023
I am have trouble with this site and couldn't post - sorry! Dad's hernia popped out from bathroom issues. We're still heading home, but read my last post!
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I just found this forum today. My heart goes out to you during this time. I was fortunate to live closer to my parents and I am retired. I have helped my parents since Nov 2020 when my mom went on oxygen 24/7 for her COPD. We also found out about that time my father had dementia. I won't tell you all the things i went through the last 2 years with both of them, but I did have a hard time with my mom. She was like Jekyl and Hyde. She would get mad if I wanted to go home and would be mean to my fiance. Hospice said she had a little dementia too. I had to help my mom in the bathroom when she needed changing. September was a really bad month with her bowels. I didn't know at the time my mom's heart was failing. She passed away in October. We found out she was dying on a Monday and she was gone by Thursday. I really thought hospice would have known sooner what was going on and told us. :(
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Max, if perchance you haven't headed back to Florida, call the hospital and speak to a social worker.

If you think mom shouldn't be left alone, tell the hospital social worker that mom needs emergency care. They can arrange that.

Or perhaps mom CAN be left alone if someone sends food and a neighbor checks in once a day.

After this is over, you call the local Area Agency on Aging and get a Needs Assessment.

When/if you want to know about that, let us know.
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Y'all have an update from Max down in discussions, so be certain to see it.
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sp19690 Jan 2023
But no update if she turned around and went back to parents place or continued back home.
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I would also like to say that if someone has been a long time caregiver, please be kind to them.

It was the firm, yet still compassionate postings that I responded most to. I completely shut down when I saw insensitive, harsh comments.

Long time caregivers are broken and the very last thing that they need, even if done with good intentions, is to be beaten up by others in a caregiver support group.

It’s extremely difficult to break free of FOG. We need time to process the information given. We need encouragement, which is NOT the same as coddling.

Feeling empowered is what makes it possible to take on the necessary steps to make forward. I love to see others telling a poster that they ‘can’ do this one step at a time.

Let me give an example of something. I have never been overweight. I am naturally thin and have been extremely active during my lifetime.

I try very hard to empathize with people who struggle with their weight. Everyone has their own specific metabolism.

People tell me, “You don’t know what it’s like to be overweight. You have always been stick thin.” They are correct, I don’t know what it’s like.

Some people eat when stressed, others like me, aren’t big eaters to begin with and cannot eat when stressed. It makes me nauseous if I try to eat if I am upset. My appetite goes away. Some people gain weight during caregiving. I lost weight that I couldn’t afford to lose.

Perhaps I felt like I couldn’t control certain things in my life but the one thing that I could control was food, so I rebelled by not eating. Who knows? Eating disorders weren’t discussed when I was young.

But, I do try to be very understanding of people who eat to find comfort. I don’t call them pigs or other derogatory things.

So, if you haven’t struggled with feeling like you had to do the hands on caregiving, then good for you! But please be aware that not everyone is the same. Some of us take longer to catch up to speed.

Look at the person who developed 409 cleaner. Do you know why that is the name of the product? It’s because he failed 408 times. He succeeded on the 409th try and that is what is most important.

Please note that I am not ragging on anyone for their contributions to this forum. I have slipped as well, after moving forward and at times I have also been impatient with others.

I work hard at catching my negative behavior and bite my tongue so I won’t be offensive and counter productive. I prefer to offer firm but compassionate advice.
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sp19690 Jan 2023
What an excellent post.
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Oh my gosh, this is deja vu for me! In particular, hearing Barb’s words, for which I am eternally grateful.

I remember debating with her about, ‘how much I loved my mom.’ Barb didn’t miss a beat by telling me that my love for my mother had nothing to do with my irrational behavior.

No one had ever explained this to me like that before. Her words clicked in my ‘dense’ head! I had suddenly realized that I equated service with love. I had no idea that they were separate issues. I believed that there couldn’t be ‘love’ without my service.

I was totally wrong about so many things. My responsibility was to oversee that my mom was cared for. Sadly, I felt that I was being neglectful and passing the buck if I wasn’t doing the hands on care myself. It was such a relief to finally understand the truth!

It’s painful to remember these things but they are true. I don’t know if Barb and others remember how terribly confused that I was like I do. I’m certainly glad that no one gave up on me. I was delusional and lost.

Barb explained FOG, fear, obligation and guilt. I didn’t know about this either. Let’s just say that I desperately needed to be enlightened!

We can empathize with our parents being afraid. Everyone is afraid when faced with health issues. The problem arises when the only thing that we have shown them is that we are ‘always’ going to be there to take care of everything at the cost of neglecting ourselves. That’s on us!

All is not lost though, as hard as it is emotionally for some of us, we can turn things around to find a proper balance in our lives. It’s the best thing for everyone, the parents and children.
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Beatty Jan 2023
Need, I am watching this now. The 'love' one family member has is deep. I picture it like a triple stacked colourful licorice allsort lolly: layers stuck together: love, service, fix (keep the peace/keep other's happy). Deeply encased in FOG too.

Both love & saying no/change doesn't seem to co-exist for them.

I am researching today (again) where the line is, between freedom of choice & self-neglect.
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The one thing that can be guaranteed with 2 90+ year old parents?

Medical emergencies of various levels of "need" will happen with increasing frequency.

There needs to be a plan for dealing with these.

The plan needs to take financial constraints into account.

It needs to be based on facts, not emotions, guilt, panic and manipulative behavior.

Just some food for thought, Max.

Wishing you well.
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Hothouseflower Jan 2023
I’m in the trenches with two 94 year olds who chose not to have a plan and just wanted to die in their home. They shot down every suggestion or attempt I made to help them put their affairs in order. My actions were viewed suspiciously and I was the recipient of my mothers verbal vomit last time I made a suggestion. The chickens have come home to roost and I’m in the basement, tempted to to get up, close the door and leave without saying a damn thing. I am beyond livid. I want to be a decent daughter but they have made it impossible. These last years will forever taint my memory of them.

Max, please take note of this. Make sure your parents have a plan.
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Oh, no, Max, I bet you turned around and headed back to your parents. And there you will stay, wishing and hoping for your next chance to get away. Will it be yet another 2+ months before you can plan to go home? And then when you do make plans, there will suddenly be another crisis and you won't leave? Will this be your life until both your parents are gone?

Or...did you keep on going back to your home and make a stand against their unrealistic and unfair expectations of you?
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Hernia. But could have been anything... a dire fall, a sudden cough, a spilled coffee..

Take over this looming train wreck & drive safely.
Stay on the train as it de-rails.
Get off the train & alert others.

What's the decision?
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"When you fail to plan, you plan to fail".

Max, please try to separate the idea that you love your mom from the idea (which seems connected to you) that you must show up on demand for her medical crises.

For my family, things started going downhill when mom was 88. Dad had been dead for 16 years but mom was managing fine...until she wasn't.

We simply couldn't drop everything (jobs, mortgage payments) to rush to her side with increasing frequency. We moved her into an Independent Living Facility where there was staff around 24/7 and that worked for 2 years.

Mom had a stroke and it was pretty clear that she needed to be in a NH and that she needed to be very close to one of us. We did the research and the best option was moving her 10 minutes from one brother. It made for more travel for the other 2 of us, but it made sense for SOMEONE to be able to get to the hospital quickly in an emergency.

No parent should expect their adult child to be their only source of care. It's selfish. Similarly, no adult child should expect to be supported by their elderly parents.

Since both situations exist in your family, I'm going to suggest again that you START by finding a therapist who can help you set some realistic boundaries with tour family so that YOUR life and health don't get destroyed.

Again, this is not about how much or whether you love mom and dad. And remember that no reasonable person should say "if you love me you would.... ".

That's manipulation, pure and simple.
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Max, your parents are in their 90s.

Sooner or later, one of them will become seriously ill or will fall and a decision will need to be made about what level of care they need and where it will be delivered.

In many families, this situation occurs as a sudden crisis. Many times, an adult child swoops in and starts caregiving, trying to save the days and getting burned and and resentful in short order.

We have be trying to prepare you for this.

You need to have some answers ready--what rehabs are good. What home health agencies have good, reliable aides.

You need to start finding this stuff out NOW because the crisis is probably only a couple of weeks away and YOU need first and foremost to get back to your cancer treatment docs.

Your parents' lack of planning for their old age should not be reason for you to sacrifice your life and health.
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NeedHelpWithMom Jan 2023
I love what you said about becoming resentful. It’s the honest truth and certainly understandable. I must admit that this was true for me.

Yes, we want our parents to be well cared for but if we are at the stage of being resentful or burned out, we aren’t doing them or ourselves any favors. Parents deserve to have a caregiver that isn’t overly tired and we deserve to have proper rest.

In a way, it’s like any other job. If we wake up everyday and hate going to work, it’s time to find another job or if we are at retirement age, then we should retire and let another person take over.

It can be tough to let go, even knowing that it is necessary. Transitional times are difficult. It isn’t until we get away from it that we realize how irrational our thinking was. Long time caregiving changes us in negative ways.

Some of us even felt like no one else could do as good of a job as we can. Not true! Some of us felt like we were the only ones to get our parents to do something. Also not true! Sometimes they actually listen to others better than us.

Bottom line is that it doesn’t have to be ‘us’ doing all of the heavy lifting.

I received great advice from many on this forum when I was struggling.

I remember asking this forum what to expect from the caregivers who came to help mom with Council on Aging. The best advice that I heard was, “Allow them to do their job! Don’t work along beside them. Get out of the house. Take a break!” I listened and it was wonderful to have that break.
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Hi again, my Dad just called and said his hernia popped out and it’s the size of an orange. He’s going to the ER and my mom is alone. My husband just said we didn’t even get halfway home and we got this call. Unbelievable! I have no words right now!
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golden23 Jan 2023
Keep going to your own home, Max. Don't you dare turn back. They will manage!!! If your mum can't be alone then she needs to be in a facility. This is a big test for you. They need to find resources other than you that are close to home. Neighbours, housekeeper whoever - but not you! Your health can't carry that burden any more.
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Hi Everyone it’s Max. I am trying to reset my password and I’m having trouble so I temporarily changed my User ID. I’m in a hotel in South Carolina. Mom said she misses me and loves me. She was not upset on the phone. It made me feel so good. I’m happy they are alone together, even though it’s probably quiet. My mom was sleeping when we left, so it was so easy to leave. I do love her, but she can be so annoying at times, and I know she feels the same way about me. The only difference is that I can admit that I have faults, she will never do that. Anyway, we’re back to our normal life with our dear puppy. Can’t wait to see my condo - my home! Thank you again for checking on me today! Max (I love ancient history) Named my other Papillon Lucius Maximus Senaca) My new puppy is Romeo.
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golden23 Jan 2023
Ah - you got back into the forum. Good! I answered you on your on your Max13 thread and am copying it back here for continuity!

Hi Max - thanks for the update. Glad you got away well. Enjoy your home. Make longer time between visits, less time with the parents. It gives them too a chance to develop their other relationships and interests and prepares them for your eventual retirement in Spain without them. It will lessen their focus on you. Keep lengthening the apron strings. Both you and your parents will be better off for that. Mother would never admit fault either - it was always someone else.

You have interesting names for your pets! I like ancient history too.
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Its 11am EST so I so hope you got off bright and early.
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Max, as I've read through this thread - I've been wondering something. There is a culture of Guilt. It's not in any one culture. It's no respecter of race, ethnicity, gender, etc. It just depends on the family you are raised in. But a lot of times you don't recognize you are in it. As I've gotten older, I've realized my grandmother is their QUEEN. And your posts are just dripping with it.

Your mother has you feeling as if YOU alone are keeping her alive. That if YOU walk away, she will surely perish. And that if you leave, it will be your fault if something happens to her. In addition to that - you mentioned that there are things that you and your husband won't be able to do because you have been funding THEIR mortgage (I'm not even sure how long). I will have to go back and read the post about your brother and everything they have done for him.

BUT....

You do realize that all you have been doing by funding their mortgage is indirectly funding your brother right?

All of this time your mother has been holding guilt over YOUR head, making you feel as if you can't do enough for her, you are paying their bills, you are running yourself ragged, you are spending so much time away from your husband, your husband is spending time running back and forth between your home and Florida....your BROTHER has been reaping the benefits. And they haven't blinked an eye at handing over money to him time and time again.

Has the situation ever been reversed? I know that they were wonderful loving parents. I'm not questioning that. And I'm sure that you know they would have helped you if you would have needed it. BUT, have YOU personally ever been in the position as an adult where you did need them and the tables were turned and they came to YOUR rescue? I am not trying to disparage them at all. I'm just wondering if you have always been the family savior your entire life?

I think sometimes we get into a certain role and feel like if we don't play that role that the entire dynamic will completely cave in. But the reality is that as long as YOU are the solution - they will never find another one. As long as you are willing to jump in the car and put your entire life on hold to come take care of them every single time they call - they won't hire a caregiver. And you will never get to enjoy just being their daughter.

Have you? Have you ever just been able to be their daughter? Or have you always been in this position of parenting your parents to some extent? Have you ever tried to say "Sorry mom, I just can't come this time. Here's the number of Visiting Angels, Home Instead, Care.com....they can send a caregiver out. Or the doctor can order rehab" Or do you feel like you would be so overwhelmed by guilt that you just wouldn't be able to do it?

Like I said, as long as you are their solution, they will never find another one. If you are ok with that, just disregard this message, but it doesn't seem like you are. But the only way that is going to change is if YOU change your behavior. They won't change theirs. It's too easy for them. NO is actually a complete sentence. But guilt is a strong motivator.

Once you and your husband are in the car (you CAN do this, don't let last minute emergencies stop you!) and you are away from the entire situation, I think you really need to give some thought to the next time. Because the next time is just around the corner. You know the phone is going to ring and you are going to be needed again soon. And you need to know what you are going to do. Because there is never going to be just a quick visit to spend some time with mom and dad for fun as long as you are the caregiver of choice.
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Good for you, Max. Now don't let your mother's behavior which you know is coming set back this huge step you've taken.
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Well-done, Max!

Keep it up, go home and start researching home health agencies in your parents' area.
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