My husband and I have been with my 90 year old parents since before Thanksgiving. It is now January 2nd. My husband had to go home to work in another state. My mom got a respiratory infection and was sent to the hospital due to fluid in her extremities and low oxygen. She’s now on oxygen. I stayed behind to care for her and help out my Dad. I thought that she would get better in a few weeks. It’s not the oxygen problem that she can’t deal with when I leave, it’s that she can’t reach back to wipe her rear because she’s too heavy in her stomach. Granted she’s sitting on a high toilet seat with grab bars, but even before we got that, she didn’t want to wipe herself. Then she wants me to bring her a bed pan into the kitchen while my Dad was cooking in the kitchen, also outside on the common area balcony in front of her door, in the living room - to urinate instead of walking to the bathroom. My Dad said she gets out of bed on her own, wipes herself upfront and gets back into bed by herself. When my wonderful husband told her Mom you need to start trying to become independent again like you were, she went crazy on him and told me go home to your husband. He is the most compassionate person in the world. My mom said to him I want to thank you for you giving up your wife - what does this mean? For how long does she think I’m going to stay around just to wipe her? She said I would never have your father to that. I don’t like to use my father’s car so I’m trapped. I also brought my puppy who needs exercise. She told me don’t be long walking him. Also, she’s supposed to be losing weight and she’s eating cookies, etc. So why do I have to wipe her if she can’t reach back because she’s heavy and she’s not helping herself? My husband and I are in our 60’s and about to retire and she won’t even walk to help herself! It’s so unfair! I bought her a tool to help her reach back and she doesn’t want to try it. If she can’t wipe herself now, I can’t just live with her to just stay around to wipe her. So sorry everyone! PS I had breast cancer and need to go to my doctors too.
A travel blog would be fun!
What travel plans do you have? I would love to hear about your upcoming adventures. Are you planning to return to places that you love or are you going to explore new places?
It’s cool that you were able to travel the world as a kid. We went to the same place for vacation when I was a kid. Daddy grew up in Florida, and he loved Florida so we went to the beach every summer. I loved it but didn’t go anywhere else until I was on my own.
New Orleans is flat, so the first time that I went backpacking in the mountains it was such a thrill for me.
You can post if you need to. We are here for you. Transitional times are hard.
Do whatever is best for you.
I love your adventurous spirit. Continue to travel!
Thanks for caring. Hugs to EVERYONE on this forum! Max
It’s fine to post. There are lots of ongoing posts like the thread that Barb posted to you about. Dorker’s thread.
What I think you need to learn, and therapy may help, is what to say to Mom in certain circumstances.
When you see your oncologist tell him/her that you are under a lot of stress dealing with your parents. That your afraid this stress will cause problems concerning your cancer. Ask if he/she knows of a good therapist that can help you work thru the problem with parents and the trama with your brother.
My sister had an aggressive form of breast cancer. She was told it was probably brought on by stress of her job, eating habits and being very obese. So you need to take care of you. And its sad that your parents don't see this.
I have said this before, my in-laws moved to Fla because thats what my MIL wanted. My FIL died 3 yrs later. She constantly at us to move down there. My husband never said yes or no. His Mom was passive-aggressive. You know what my husbands attitude was, she chose to move there. She chose to stay there after his Dad died. She did not want to move near any of her kids. She wanted to stay in Fla. She wanted her kids to come to her. Wasn't happening. We all had our own lives and families.
I think you need to take some time for you and hubby. Maybe not posting to AG for a while. You need to tell Mom and Dad you need time to get back to your normal so you will call them after you decompress. And to please honor that request. You need to maybe go to a room and be alone with your thoughts. Let go of the stress. Let husband be the bad guy. When one of ur parents call, he picks up the phone and tells them you will call after u decompress. That you need time with just yourself. They need to know that they cause anxiety and stress in your life. That things need to be on your terms, not theirs.
Take a deep breath. Go for a walk, exercise is good for u. DH and you go do something together even if its just walking the Mall.
I think that a trip is a fabulous idea! Go and have fun. Focus on your interests.
It doesn’t matter what your parents expect from you. You have a right to live life the way you desire. They don’t have to be included in every aspect of your life.
I know all about the 'what ifs' and it too ruled my life for a long time. Like you it also comes from a long history of childhood anxiety. Also trauma and abuse in my case too.
I once read a quote by a brilliant Irish poet, William Butler Yeats.
"Life is a long preparation for something that never happens".
That was spot on. I got over the 'what if' mentality because of my second husband and his family.
His grandfather lost his whole family. He came from a big family too. Yet he was the most positive, encouraging, and hopeful person I ever knew. This guy loved life and did not worry about 'what ifs'.
I think the 'what ifs' that kept people like you and I up at night would seem like nonsense to someone who lost and survived what that man did. So I try to think like him.
He lived to be super old. Never complained about anything and was never nasty or hurtful to my FIL (his son) when he got moved to AL. He was the favorite of all the staff over there and the life of the party.
I'm sure he had plenty of grief. How could he not? He never spread the pain and misery around though. He was never all about the gloom and doom so many elderly people are on about every minute of the day.
Please don't start sabotaging yourself now and working out a crisis to happen so you will return to your parents'.
You've taken a big step to end your caregiving martyrdom by leaving and going back to your home.
Don't undo all this progress by allowing yourself to indulge in second-guessing and "what if" scenarios.
No contact with your parents for a couple of weeks is what's called for now.
Even a small amount of guilt-tripping from your mother will have you right back wiping her a$$ and kissing it.
Listen to the good advice everyone here is telling you and go no contact for a bit.
Take care of your oncology appointments first, of course, but start the process to find a psychiatrist/therapist to start the conversation about setting boundaries with your parents.
Your oncologist probably has some good resources, so you might start there.
Like many parents, yours see their children as a reflection on their skills, virtues and hard work. Having a child with psychiatric issues, especially a son, in their community is SUCH a badge of shame.
It shouldn't be. It sounds like there is a lot of genetic loading for mental illness in your family and your brother was the unfortunate recipient of thoses genes; the stress of expectations of perfection can make that sort of thing worse, not better.
I feel for your brother and for your parents. But their tragedy does NOT equate to you becoming their slave. Keep that in mind as you deal with them.
Just read your post about your brother.
It is devastating for your parents to go through such pain. It’s awful.
My parents went through tremendous pain with my brother. It affects the entire family. It’s hard on everyone.
You are not responsible for what he did. Nothing can take their pain away. I am so sorry this happened in your family.
You can’t replace what they loss. You shouldn’t have to overcompensate because they lost your brother.
They are entitled to grieve. It’s a terrible loss. Still, they don’t get to expect more from you.
Isn’t it interesting how some people can overcome the worst of circumstances? It doesn’t matter how many detours they had to take they found a way to reach their goals.
Others for whatever reasons seem to blame everyone else and get lost in their misery. They expect everyone else to ‘fix’ or be responsible for their lives.
No one had a perfect life. Even fairy tales have villains.
You know that you don’t ever have to accept any blame. You are not guilty of anything.
Some mothers stick the knife in and give it a hard twist. Of course. it hurts. Some of us became immune to it after awhile. I hope that you will become immune too and can be free to live your life as you see fit without any regrets.
Let your parents know that it’s your turn to take care of yourself. They will have to figure out a way to take care of themselves.
" My husband and I know the real reason my parents are clingy and are desperate for family, they lost their son and..."
I lost my youngest son. When I say lost, I mean he died from an assault when he was 23. I know a number of mums who have lost adult children. None of us became clingy to our remaining children. or desperate for family.
My family was very dysfunctional - alcoholic father, Borderline Personality Disorder narcissistic mother and narcissistic some kind of disorder sister. That did not make me cling to my children. They live their own independent lives. We enjoy one another's company when we get together by mutual choice. We have rubbed some rough corners off of one another, certainly, and we have all grown in the process.
I agree they are insecure, even jealous, which is a characteristic of narcissistic people. I don't believe anything you can do will make them feel secure. It hasn't happen yet after all the time and effort you have given them. Security comes from within
They need you around to prop them up, to be their servant child. It's about control.
I realized when I was quite young that my sister and mother didn't see me as I saw myself. I felt in many ways they didn't know me. For sure I struggled with low self esteem at times which was due to feedback from my mother and sister but the more I distanced myself from them, the healthier and stronger I got. But at least they were pretty consistent
The yoyo feedback you get is like torture which breaks you down and is designed to keep you where your mother can control you. For your mental and physical health you need to get away from it.
Why does she do it? I believe that your mum has a disorder of some kind. Normal people do not behave as she does. Theories range from nurture (parenting and environment when young), to nature -genetics and/or neurobiology. Or, I suppose, some combination of these.
In our family it appears to me to clearly be genetics as this personality crops up in my mother's family - usually women, very bright academically, and very hard to get along with. They can have siblings who are entirely normal. My aunts and uncles were lovely people, Mother apparently, was difficult from birth. My sister has a version of it and my daughter and granddaughter. I have been assessed as normal, in that regard anyway! 😉
So, yes, it is confusing. I wondered "why" they did this or that for a while as I was growing up, but finally decided it didn't matter why. So much was wrong, it was bad for me, and I needed to look after myself.
I hope you are getting there. (((((((hugs))))))
1. You don't HAVE to do anything for your parents.
They can tell you that you HAVE to do stuff till the cows come home and it doesn't make it true.
You ARE allowed to say "no" to your parents.
2. You are allowed to hang up if your mother starts screaming at you, or tries to guilt you.
3. Your parents are adults who are responsible ONLY for themselves. THEIR funds should be paying for their housing and care. Not yours.
That's how "normal" families operate.
How is HIS planning ability to deal with it?
To seek advice, to arrange whatever may be needed eg extra services to help him at home after surgery, or if he thinks that won't be suitable, a his & hers rehab/respite arrangement.
It's the same again. It will keep happening. Again & again & again.
You must take over & lead. Follow their orders & do whatever they want. Or stay away & out.
Whatever option you choose is fine. No judgement! But ensure you communicate it.
It's not kind or honest to your parents to let them assume you will do this or that, fly back, put them up etc be their whole plan if you won't be.
Decide your action.
Then tell them.
My FIL is a narcissist. He is an OVERT narcissist. The kind everyone thinks about when they think narcissist. Grandiose, can't handle criticism, huge attention seeker, completely self-involved, his needs must be met above everyone else's, does not really live in our reality - he creates his own and fabricates narratives to match his reality, craves admiration. You name a narcissistic trait - he's got it. He spent my DH and his sister's entire childhood being abusive and pitting them against each other - where each of them thought the other was the Golden Child (favored child) and they were the Scapegoat. He did this with intention. My MIL spent years crafting how she dealt with him simply as a survival instinct. And now as caregivers we are having to learn our way around dealing with an aging narcissist.
But there is another kind - and they are harder to recognize. The COVERT narcissist. They don't seem like they are narcissistic at first glance. They seem the reverse. They are often passive aggressive and self-deprecating. As mothers - they tend to play the victim and shift blame to their children and set incredibly high expectations for their children.
And the most at risk in the path of a COVERT narc mother is the GOOD DAUGHTER. You want to be good, you want to make her happy. You will always feel guilty and you aren't even sure why you feel guilty! And they have a way of making you feel bad about yourself. Her needs are the most important, but when you have needs, you are overreacting or too sensitive. She is the eternal victim. And the most key thing I've read about is the fact that she may parentify her daughter in the quest to get her needs met - literally appropriate her daughter from her own life in order to make sure she gets what she needs. And that culture of guilt thing I mentioned - NO ONE is better at that than the covert narc mother. She needs YOU to feel bad if you don't do what she wants, even if YOU are right.
Covert narcs - like Overt narcs, will play siblings against each other.
And the hardest part is that as children - it becomes so normalized that you don't even realize it is happening and by the time you are an adult and can recognize that there is something inherently wrong with the relationship dynamic, the damage is already done. You have to work very hard to change your own mindset to break the cycle.
Cast of characters often include a passive father who enables her behavior and a golden child brother (or sister). And virtually no one will recognize that her behavior is anything other than a loving mother who invested so much into her child and now is reaping the benefits of a loving daughter. This is NOT new behavior. You have been dealing with this your entire life.
So...if you haven't entirely skipped my post because you think I'm crazy - consider the possibility. As I said, I certainly can't make any assumptions about your mother. I don't know her. I just know that so much of what you are describing sounds just like my FIL and the issues we constantly deal with on a daily basis. You don't come to the realization overnight. It comes in stages and once you recognize it, you don't even know what to do about it.
But its something to consider. If it is even potentially possible it might give you some tools to help you deal with her going forward. Because if it is on the table, it changes your entire approach. Because you have to shore up your spine and really dig in and take all of the advice here and put on your armor!
Hugs!
Best article EVER: 25 Signs of a Covert Passive-Aggressive Narcissist. I was gob smacked when I recognized so many of these 25 examples in my own mother. Mind bending.
Dad is 95 and he is still having to care for your mother.
Dad is having surgery but mom needs to be taken care of not dad.
Everything is about mom. You were sick but mom wanted to go out to dinner so you went.
Just because you did X,Y,Z in the past does not mean you have to continue doing X,Y,Z. You always have a choice.
Your dad probably got injured helping your mother when you left. Dad can only do so much and your mother is like an insatiable parasite that only cares about her survival and no one elses well being.
Dad can have his hernia surgery where he lives. They will need to hire someone to help mom if she is not capable of helping herself.
I dont understand about the money. Dont they get social security? What are they spending their monthly income on exactly? It is your right to know since you are subsidizing their living expenses.
Since you didnt have the talk with mom and dad while husband was there in person it will have to be done in the phone. A bit impersonal but better than the alternative of you going back to Florida.
Take care of yourself stress can feed cancer and cause heart attacks. You and your husband deserve a life together before one of you is too sick or dead to enjoy each other without the obligation of mom hanging over you.
Sounds so much like my husband’s grandmother. She was one of the self centered people that I have ever known. My poor mother in law having to grow up with her!
My husband’s grandfather was a sweetheart. His grandmother was an amazing artist. Once she painted a portrait of her husband. She showed it to him. He was shocked!
He looked at her and said, “Please look into my eyes. What color are they?” She said, “Oh, I see that they are blue.” She painted his eyes brown! LOL 😆 They were married over fifty years and she didn’t even know his eye color!
She only paid attention to herself. He would catch the street car everyday to work at his office until his late 70’s because he said that she would have driven him crazy if he retired.
My grandmother had a different temperament than my mom. Grandma was not rude but she was direct, extremely independent, fair minded and had a wonderful sense of humor! I absolutely adored her. She saw me get married but didn’t live long enough to see my children.
Mom didn’t always express her feelings. She suppressed them, then out of the blue, beware. Know what I mean? I am not sure how to explain. She wouldn’t always indicate that there was a problem.
Personally, I would rather someone tell me off, clear the air, then talk about it, rather than keep me in the dark about things.
Oh well…life is complicated at times and family dynamics can stink sometimes.
Barb, you said that your husband walked away from his mom, no regrets, right? I am assuming no guilt too.
Why do most men, (there are always exceptions) deal with this situation far better than women? Is it for practical reasons, work? Or temperament?
There are some women (like Lea, you and others) who NEVER considered taking on the ‘hands on’ responsibilities of caregiving but overall many of us feel that it was our responsibility. It’s so sad.
My mother was an excellent caregiver, but had no support. She felt guilty, stressed and angry all the time. She thought this was supposed to an "honor". People told her how lucky she was.
I didn't have a mother who was emotionally available to me as a teenager.
I wasn't ever going to do that to my kids.
I stayed at home when my kids were young, but went back to work/grad school when they started school.
I got divorced and bought my own property with my own mortgage. There was no possible way I could have stopped working to take care of my mom in her home or ours.
Is your husband only loving to you when you are doing exactly what he says to do? Or do you have adult relationship where all the adults are allowed to have opinions, desires and needs?
You mother doesn't respect you as an adult. She uses and manipulates you through Fear, Obligation and Guilt.
Why does she get mean - because she is not so loving and giving and no matter how well you treat her she never will be. You can't make her into the mother you want by doing things for her and being nice to her. It doesn't work. You can't change her. You need to change you into caring for you more.
When I first took employment doing homecare for the elderly, I was sent out assignment with a senior caregiver to be trained. I was her last trainee because she was getting out of the hands-on business because she couldn't stand it anymore. She did it for 25 years. That seems to be the magic number.
Anyway, she taught me how to handle every situation that a fussy senior brat or a nasty, demented elder can throw at a person.
Don't tolerate any behavior from a senior that you would not tolerate from a child or anyone else. They do not get special treatment because they are old.
Would you tolerate verbal abuse, constant negativity, sabotaging, and gaslighting from say your spouse, a friend, or on a job?
Then don't tolerate it from the person receiving your care.
Would you tolerate temper tantrums, hitting, kicking, biting, and destruction from a child in your care?
Then don't tolerate it from the elder receiving your care.
This was a very valuable lesson my trainer/mentor taught me. It is why I have been able to do this work for as long as I did.
I also do not play games either. I live by the philosophy that England's Royal Family has lived by for centuries.
Don't complain and don't explain.
You should try it. No complaining about how poorly your mother treats you and no doubt she is nasty to you.
No explaining why you say no to something either. You do not give her your entire health history and plead your case for why you can't take her out to dinner.
You tell her plainly, 'I don't feel well. We aren't going out to dinner' then let that be the end of it.
You tell her plainly, 'I am leaving on this date. I'll set up homecare for you'. Then that is the end of it and you do it.
With all respect to you and your husband, don't you think there's something wrong and dysfunctional about your marriage if both of you have made your parents the center of your world? This is something both of you should explore in therapy.
Don't be a martyr, Max. It will ruin your life and the lives of the people who love you.
When BIL's parents started having fender benders, he went them and said "Mom, dad it's not safe for you to be driving any more. He took their keys.
When it was clear they shouldn't be living alone, she sat down with them and said "this isn't working. You need to move to AL". They picked one out and he helped them move.
Her DH'S family, by contrast, hints, makes vague statements about "not getting any younger", engages in long backs and forth about whether they should wait to go to a nice AL. The MIL has dx'ed dementia and her husband/caregiver is worn out. If he is hospitalized, they have a huge emergency on their hands.
BUT they are SO afraid of hurting mom and dad's feelings!
Max, be direct with your parents. I am a big believer in the idea that God/tge universe sometimes gives us a "trial run". This phone call from dad about his hernia? That was your wakeup call.
If mom can't be left alone without supervision if dad goes into the hospital overnight, then it's time to move them.
You need to have a direct, honest and short conversation about this with NO attention paid to your mom's histrionics.
DH and I are all in favor of finding a Skilled Nursing Facility for him now- but they would need to move out of his home in order to prompt him leaving - as long as they are there he will not leave.
But if they don't proactively choose to leave, and something happens to them - there would be a mad scramble - because DH and I already know that we won't be moving in with him to provide care.
As it stands right now he is coming home from rehab tomorrow and we have a lot of concerns about the differences between what he and the staff are telling us he is capable of doing and what the staff and the doctor are telling us in the discharge paperwork. If the staff's verbal information is correct -he will be fine to come home. If the discharge paperwork is accurate - we may have some issues with him when we get home.
And if we have issues - we will be scrambling to find care if he isn't capable of helping himself in certain areas (specifically transfers and toileting) because neither BIL nor SIL can assist and we are an hour away. Not to mention he is 300lbs so realistically no one can really help.
DH and I talked about it today and outside of calling for an occasional lift assist if he only struggles periodically - if it is consistent and he is not able to do what they claim....we will have to hire 24/7 caregiverS (as in two at a time) to assist until we can find somewhere to move him - because if he can't transfer or toilet himself that is the line we drew a long time ago on what constituted able to stay in his home vs having to move him.
Because it isn't possible to find immediate placement and if he can't transfer he will literally need placement immediately. So the only option will be in home caregivers.
People often don't realize that they can go from having the situation completely under control to an emergent situation literally in the snap of their fingers and at least have to have a couple of emergency options to cover the gaps. Even our emergency options are for different scenarios these days.
I really thought you would turn around to tend to your mother.
Well done!
Your mum blows hot and cold depending on whether she is getting her way - always has, always will. She will be charming sometimes and will scream at you other times. It is what it is.
I think you are still looking for her approval and her unconditional love. Everyone needs that but many of us do not get it from our parents. For whatever reason, your mum is not capable of that - nor your dad. Time to accept them as they are - very frail seniors who are getting more and more in need of help. Time also to accept, which I think you are, that you and your hub are not able to give them the care they need. Things started to be much more manageable for me once more professional people were involved in mother's care.
They may be suited to an assisted living facility or they may need more care. They may be able to manage where they are for a while with home aides several times a week. They need to be evaluated as to the level of care they need. Their local agency for aging will have information about local resources, Medicaid is available for people with limited financial resources such as your parents.
Barb's suggestion about contacting the social worker if either of them are in hospital is great. An SW can steer your parents in the right direction for their proper care. Both your parents are still mentally competent though I think your mother is slipping, so they can participate in making plans for their own care. If you want to oversee their care when they are not competent you need to have financial POA and be assigned as their medical proxy. These documents should be out in place asap. Perhaps you already have them and I have missed it in previous posts.
Put your own health and needs as a priority. Do what you have to do to keep stress levels down.
Keep your eye on your goals of retirement for you and hub in Spain, and a suitable facility for your parents in the US. We are always here to support you.
I am so glad that you’re home! How is Romeo doing? Now your fur baby has you all to himself! I bet he is loving it!
Most importantly, you and hubby are free to enjoy being alone together or spend time with friends.
It doesn’t matter what or how your mom expresses her opinion. She can be as passive aggressive as she wants to be. You know that you don’t need her approval to be in your own home.
Here’s to you enjoying your peace and quiet, Cheers! 🍾🥂.