Follow
Share
Read More
This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.
What are your parents doing with their social security income? Are they still giving money to brother? Have you asked to see their income and spending or do you just give them money to pay mortgage every month? What happens if they leave this house or condo to brother when they die? Hopefully it is in your name and you have it as a protected asset for yourself.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
maximus1 Jan 2023
No they are not giving money to my brother because he left a psychiatric ward and he doesn't want to be found. He would have been reminding me to have my Dad send him his monthly money if he was still receiving money. The condo will be ours. My Dad pays for assessments and other condo fees, we pay the mortgage only. The condos or apartments in our area are far more expensive than what we are paying now for them, so we cannot pay for them here. My Dad had plenty of money to live out their lives with. We were all deathly afraid of my brother, who by the way was taking pre-med courses at Duke University and then left and then went to get an accounting degree which he got straight A's and didn't finish that and then joined the Marines and got an honorable discharge, and then never became anything. He became an abusive alcoholic. Mom never wanted to admit that he was not mentally stable. For an Italian family, who is supposed to have close ties to one another, both sides of my family were dysfunctional. My Dad left home at 14 years old to live with his grandmother because his mother was crazy. My mom's parents separated because my grandfather was a womanizer. My close aunt got a divorce when her son was young. My aunt terrorized my grandmother. My husband and I know the real reason my parents are clingy and are desperate for family, they lost their son, and no one in their family ever acknowledged their accomplishments because both sides were jealous, ignorant people. So they are always fishing for compliments and saying you learned everything from us. With all of their accomplishments in life, we now learned that they are very insecure. They actually always entertained people and they still have friends, so why do they need to be around us so much? They literally don't have family.
(0)
Report
Max, we need you to remember 3 things:

1. You don't HAVE to do anything for your parents.

They can tell you that you HAVE to do stuff till the cows come home and it doesn't make it true.
You ARE allowed to say "no" to your parents.

2. You are allowed to hang up if your mother starts screaming at you, or tries to guilt you.

3. Your parents are adults who are responsible ONLY for themselves. THEIR funds should be paying for their housing and care. Not yours.

That's how "normal" families operate.
Helpful Answer (5)
Report
golden23 Jan 2023
Amen!!!
(1)
Report
See 1 more reply
Max - It is very confusing when you are given such different feedback at different times. When we are very young we form our self image from feedback from others. As we grow and mature we shape our own self image and self esteem in response to our inner and outer worlds,

I realized when I was quite young that my sister and mother didn't see me as I saw myself. I felt in many ways they didn't know me. For sure I struggled with low self esteem at times which was due to feedback from my mother and sister but the more I distanced myself from them, the healthier and stronger I got. But at least they were pretty consistent

The yoyo feedback you get is like torture which breaks you down and is designed to keep you where your mother can control you. For your mental and physical health you need to get away from it.

Why does she do it? I believe that your mum has a disorder of some kind. Normal people do not behave as she does. Theories range from nurture (parenting and environment when young), to nature -genetics and/or neurobiology. Or, I suppose, some combination of these.

In our family it appears to me to clearly be genetics as this personality crops up in my mother's family - usually women, very bright academically, and very hard to get along with. They can have siblings who are entirely normal. My aunts and uncles were lovely people, Mother apparently, was difficult from birth. My sister has a version of it and my daughter and granddaughter. I have been assessed as normal, in that regard anyway! 😉

So, yes, it is confusing. I wondered "why" they did this or that for a while as I was growing up, but finally decided it didn't matter why. So much was wrong, it was bad for me, and I needed to look after myself.

I hope you are getting there. (((((((hugs))))))
Helpful Answer (4)
Report
NeedHelpWithMom Jan 2023
I spent a lot of my childhood confused too. We don’t sort it out until we are adults and away from home.
(3)
Report
No they are not giving money to my brother because he left a psychiatric ward and he doesn't want to be found. He would have been reminding me to have my Dad send him his monthly money if he was still receiving money. The condo will be ours. My Dad pays for assessments and other condo fees, we pay the mortgage only. The condos or apartments in our area are far more expensive than what we are paying now for them, so we cannot pay for them here. My Dad had plenty of money to live out their lives with. We were all deathly afraid of my brother, who by the way was taking pre-med courses at Duke University and then left and then went to get an accounting degree which he got straight A's and didn't finish that and then joined the Marines and got an honorable discharge, and then never became anything. He became an abusive alcoholic. Mom never wanted to admit that he was not mentally stable. For an Italian family, who is supposed to have close ties to one another, both sides of my family were dysfunctional. My Dad left home at 14 years old to live with his grandmother because his mother was crazy. My mom's parents separated because my grandfather was a womanizer. My close aunt got a divorce when her son was young. My aunt terrorized my grandmother. My husband and I know the real reason my parents are clingy and are desperate for family, they lost their son, and no one in their family ever acknowledged their accomplishments because both sides were jealous, ignorant people. So they are always fishing for compliments and saying you learned everything from us. With all of their accomplishments in life, we now learned that they are very insecure. They actually always entertained people and they still have friends, so why do they need to be around us so much? They literally don't have family.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report
golden23 Jan 2023
Max - thanks for sharing so much. It helps us to have context. I'm going to address a couple of things tonight.

" My husband and I know the real reason my parents are clingy and are desperate for family, they lost their son and..."

I lost my youngest son. When I say lost, I mean he died from an assault when he was 23. I know a number of mums who have lost adult children. None of us became clingy to our remaining children. or desperate for family.

My family was very dysfunctional - alcoholic father, Borderline Personality Disorder narcissistic mother and narcissistic some kind of disorder sister. That did not make me cling to my children. They live their own independent lives. We enjoy one another's company when we get together by mutual choice. We have rubbed some rough corners off of one another, certainly, and we have all grown in the process.

I agree they are insecure, even jealous, which is a characteristic of narcissistic people. I don't believe anything you can do will make them feel secure. It hasn't happen yet after all the time and effort you have given them. Security comes from within

They need you around to prop them up, to be their servant child. It's about control.
(5)
Report
My posting is all of the place tonight - sorry
Helpful Answer (2)
Report
NeedHelpWithMom Jan 2023
It’s okay. You have been through a lot.
(2)
Report
Max,

Isn’t it interesting how some people can overcome the worst of circumstances? It doesn’t matter how many detours they had to take they found a way to reach their goals.

Others for whatever reasons seem to blame everyone else and get lost in their misery. They expect everyone else to ‘fix’ or be responsible for their lives.

No one had a perfect life. Even fairy tales have villains.

You know that you don’t ever have to accept any blame. You are not guilty of anything.

Some mothers stick the knife in and give it a hard twist. Of course. it hurts. Some of us became immune to it after awhile. I hope that you will become immune too and can be free to live your life as you see fit without any regrets.

Let your parents know that it’s your turn to take care of yourself. They will have to figure out a way to take care of themselves.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report

Max,

Just read your post about your brother.

It is devastating for your parents to go through such pain. It’s awful.

My parents went through tremendous pain with my brother. It affects the entire family. It’s hard on everyone.

You are not responsible for what he did. Nothing can take their pain away. I am so sorry this happened in your family.

You can’t replace what they loss. You shouldn’t have to overcompensate because they lost your brother.

They are entitled to grieve. It’s a terrible loss. Still, they don’t get to expect more from you.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report

Max, I hope that you are settled in back at home.

Take care of your oncology appointments first, of course, but start the process to find a psychiatrist/therapist to start the conversation about setting boundaries with your parents.

Your oncologist probably has some good resources, so you might start there.

Like many parents, yours see their children as a reflection on their skills, virtues and hard work. Having a child with psychiatric issues, especially a son, in their community is SUCH a badge of shame.

It shouldn't be. It sounds like there is a lot of genetic loading for mental illness in your family and your brother was the unfortunate recipient of thoses genes; the stress of expectations of perfection can make that sort of thing worse, not better.

I feel for your brother and for your parents. But their tragedy does NOT equate to you becoming their slave. Keep that in mind as you deal with them.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report

Yes, everyone I have to unpack and settle in after 2 months away and then I will start taking care of myself, my husband and my household. I was even thinking about going to Europe on vacation without my parents, who as you all know, always traveled with us. They cannot go of course, due to their health issues, in fact, they may outlive me - this is what my husband said last night and I think some of you mentioned too. I needed to get away from them to think clearly. My Dad would be delighted for us, my mom would say "how can you leave us". Don't forget my mom left her mom and moved to a different country for 4 years and visited her like 2 times a year. They traveled all of the time leaving her mother constantly. Also, my grandmother lived next door and came in every night for an hour or two, not like me visiting every 2 months for 3 weeks at a time. I mentioned this a long time ago to her and she said well I wasn't as close to my mother as we are. What does that have to do with me and my life? Also, I was taken to Europe at a very young age and saw the world and lived in a foreign country for 4 years so when I returned, I had no friends and could not relate to children my age. I think it's my fault because after returning I always enjoyed adult company, and went out with them and their friends instead of acquiring my own friends, so maybe they expect me to be part of their lives constantly?
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
BurntCaregiver Jan 2023
Max,

Please don't start sabotaging yourself now and working out a crisis to happen so you will return to your parents'.
You've taken a big step to end your caregiving martyrdom by leaving and going back to your home.
Don't undo all this progress by allowing yourself to indulge in second-guessing and "what if" scenarios.
No contact with your parents for a couple of weeks is what's called for now.
Even a small amount of guilt-tripping from your mother will have you right back wiping her a$$ and kissing it.
Listen to the good advice everyone here is telling you and go no contact for a bit.
(0)
Report
See 2 more replies
Max,

I think that a trip is a fabulous idea! Go and have fun. Focus on your interests.

It doesn’t matter what your parents expect from you. You have a right to live life the way you desire. They don’t have to be included in every aspect of your life.
Helpful Answer (0)
Report
BurntCaregiver Jan 2023
@Need.

I know all about the 'what ifs' and it too ruled my life for a long time. Like you it also comes from a long history of childhood anxiety. Also trauma and abuse in my case too.
I once read a quote by a brilliant Irish poet, William Butler Yeats.

"Life is a long preparation for something that never happens".

That was spot on. I got over the 'what if' mentality because of my second husband and his family.
His grandfather lost his whole family. He came from a big family too. Yet he was the most positive, encouraging, and hopeful person I ever knew. This guy loved life and did not worry about 'what ifs'.
I think the 'what ifs' that kept people like you and I up at night would seem like nonsense to someone who lost and survived what that man did. So I try to think like him.
He lived to be super old. Never complained about anything and was never nasty or hurtful to my FIL (his son) when he got moved to AL. He was the favorite of all the staff over there and the life of the party.
I'm sure he had plenty of grief. How could he not? He never spread the pain and misery around though. He was never all about the gloom and doom so many elderly people are on about every minute of the day.
(2)
Report
See 2 more replies
Its now Tues. The replies on this thread have been pretty much repeating the same thing and have for a while now.

When you see your oncologist tell him/her that you are under a lot of stress dealing with your parents. That your afraid this stress will cause problems concerning your cancer. Ask if he/she knows of a good therapist that can help you work thru the problem with parents and the trama with your brother.

My sister had an aggressive form of breast cancer. She was told it was probably brought on by stress of her job, eating habits and being very obese. So you need to take care of you. And its sad that your parents don't see this.

I have said this before, my in-laws moved to Fla because thats what my MIL wanted. My FIL died 3 yrs later. She constantly at us to move down there. My husband never said yes or no. His Mom was passive-aggressive. You know what my husbands attitude was, she chose to move there. She chose to stay there after his Dad died. She did not want to move near any of her kids. She wanted to stay in Fla. She wanted her kids to come to her. Wasn't happening. We all had our own lives and families.

I think you need to take some time for you and hubby. Maybe not posting to AG for a while. You need to tell Mom and Dad you need time to get back to your normal so you will call them after you decompress. And to please honor that request. You need to maybe go to a room and be alone with your thoughts. Let go of the stress. Let husband be the bad guy. When one of ur parents call, he picks up the phone and tells them you will call after u decompress. That you need time with just yourself. They need to know that they cause anxiety and stress in your life. That things need to be on your terms, not theirs.

Take a deep breath. Go for a walk, exercise is good for u. DH and you go do something together even if its just walking the Mall.
Helpful Answer (4)
Report

Just saw your newest post. Yes, take that trip. U have mentioned it before that u want to do it after husband retires. I think one thing you may do and don't realize is you tell your parents too much. You do not need to tell them you are planning a trip or thinking about it. Just do it. Call them the night before you leave. If Mom says what about us. Say Mom you know you and Dad are not up to a trip like that anymore. This is a treat for me and DH to celebrate his retirement and like a second honeymoon. Who wants to take their parents on their 2nd honeymoon.

What I think you need to learn, and therapy may help, is what to say to Mom in certain circumstances.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report

OK. I'm not going to post for a while. I just had to tell you a little about my life. We want to travel even before retirement and I'm going to be strong and do it. Now that I'm away from my parents, and we just talk by phone, I'm feeling ok right now.
Thanks for caring. Hugs to EVERYONE on this forum! Max
Helpful Answer (4)
Report
NeedHelpWithMom Jan 2023
Max,

It’s fine to post. There are lots of ongoing posts like the thread that Barb posted to you about. Dorker’s thread.
(2)
Report
See 7 more replies
Max,

You can post if you need to. We are here for you. Transitional times are hard.

Do whatever is best for you.

I love your adventurous spirit. Continue to travel!
Helpful Answer (2)
Report

Max,

What travel plans do you have? I would love to hear about your upcoming adventures. Are you planning to return to places that you love or are you going to explore new places?

It’s cool that you were able to travel the world as a kid. We went to the same place for vacation when I was a kid. Daddy grew up in Florida, and he loved Florida so we went to the beach every summer. I loved it but didn’t go anywhere else until I was on my own.

New Orleans is flat, so the first time that I went backpacking in the mountains it was such a thrill for me.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report

I just want you to know that anyone on this forum must feel the same way - confused. We do love our parents, we just don't like certain things about them, as they I'm sure feel the same way about their kids. It's reality, but my parents don't like to hear it. I will share where we have been and where we plan to go in the future as sort of a travel blog. Maybe we can have some fun here besides talking about depressing issues. Kisses!
Helpful Answer (3)
Report
NeedHelpWithMom Jan 2023
Parents never want to hear about certain things, especially changes. They usually come around when they see that they can’t have their way.

A travel blog would be fun!
(0)
Report
Max, again, how you FEEL about your parents and how you react to their bad behavior are different things.

The fact that you love your parents does not equate to sitting still while mom verbally abuses or manipulates you.

Your mom doesn't need to get told/hear/ or acceptANYTHING you say. She will be angry.

Big deal.

If she needs care, she needs to find that care from someone else. It's just NOT your job.

She won't accept that. She won't be happy.

Again, you can't fix that. Her feelings are her own.

Best of all things to you.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report

Someone help me!!! My mom already is asking when I'm going to bring the puppy back. I said he has to be trained first to get on a plane because we are not driving down anymore. She then asked so how long will I not see him, but she got interrupted and we said goodbye. She does not know that I probably will be going back in 3 months and only for 2 weeks. I want it to be a vacation, not that I'm living there. 3 weeks starts getting really boring because we end up not going to the park because she's tired. She also said she misses me. My mom needs to relax and read a book or whatever!
Helpful Answer (0)
Report
NeedHelpWithMom Feb 2023
Max,

Send her cute photos of him. I have two grown daughters but no grandchildren.

Well, my oldest daughter has cats and I get the most adorable photos sent to me. They are the sweetest kitties.

My youngest daughter has a beautiful Siberian husky. I can’t tell you how many photos I have of this dog! I fell in love with him. He is a wonderful dog!

I love receiving the photos on my iPhone. Hey, if mom doesn’t have a smartphone, print out a few pictures and send. Maybe frame a really cute photo of Romeo.

If you feel that this is a manipulation tactic and it probably is. I would still say, “Mom, Romeo is so cute. I just love him so much. He brings me so much joy! I’ll send photos so you can see for yourself.” The say, “Gotta run…Talk later!” Then hang up the phone!

Why get mad? Not worth it! Life is too short to get upset over her wanting only what she wants. You deserve a life too!
(1)
Report
See 1 more reply
Max, this is not about what your mother needs (although being in Assisted Living would probably be lovely for her because she'd have folks to talk to.)

"Somebody help me"?

Have you found a therapist?

Have you practised saying "no, Mom, I'm not coming until my oncologist gives the all clear; and when I DO come back, it will be for a week's stay at a hotel near you, not in your condo."

Start there.
Helpful Answer (4)
Report
lealonnie1 Feb 2023
I thought we'd BEEN helping since she first asked for help one month ago today, 300 comments ago! But apparently not.

Op, your mom is not going to "relax" or stop asking when you're coming back the moment you get home. This is the cycle, do you not recognize it?? Have you formulated no answers to those questions? Or try telling her the truth, like Barb suggested. You're way too available to mom to begin with! Try leaving the phone off the hook or turned OFF for a few days. Mom can scream bloody murder and you won't know it. Ignorance is bliss.

You say "someone help me!"

YOU try taking the FIRST step to breaking this dysfunctional cycle by not taking her calls for a few days. Can you do it? Or does mom remain in charge of your life forever?
(4)
Report
Max,

Try not to take her requests so seriously. She is using your new pup to manipulate you.

I can’t even imagine doing this to my daughter. She would have laughed at me if I tried this foolishness.

She can see the dog from a picture like I saw my daughter’s dog when she lived in Colorado.

There was another poster on another thread talking about how our therapists helped us.

I absolutely loved what her therapist said to her, “Don’t let the sharks see you bleed!” Great advice!

Do not let her see that she has power over you! Don’t give her any more ammunition!
Helpful Answer (3)
Report

Max,

Your mom can barely wipe herself and your dad can barely assist her with his health problems. I would continue assisting with the mortgage only as long as that comes with home care and cameras that answer to you. It’s that, or they can’t live there anymore. It’s not safe. I know you see that, but trust that you can see that there are other alternatives.

Were I you, I’d ask my parents to sign a will codicil saying that you’re at least to be reimbursed for the mortgage and things with receipts…at least.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
NeedHelpWithMom Feb 2023
I am blown away by her dad! It’s sad, really to think of this older gentleman trying to help out his wife.

They both need help. He’s old too and his needs seem to get glossed over for the mom’s needs.

The only viable solution is for them to be in a facility. Sadly, they are selfish and want their daughter to be their caregiver.
(2)
Report
See 2 more replies
I totally agree with the advice on communication.

I think actual roleplay, with a therapist, in person is needed to get it. To roleplay the push-react conversations - then stop, reflect & examine what happens.

I'll give you an example that made me 'get it'.

When a Councellor 'played' calling & asking for my help, it was really illuminating. Firstly I could see when a DIRECT request was made, I felt quite ok to be DIRECT with an honest answer back. Stating what I could or could not do.

Eg 1 "Can you drive me to the Doctor's this Friday at 3?"
"No, sorry. I am busy at that time."

Then clear communication could follow. Could I help if an alternative time was arranged? If not, then say so.

But when I corrected the Councillor to how a request like that was actually made.. the wording, the style.. A'HA!!

It was all HINTS. Nothing direct. Not honest clear communication.

Hints, like fishing hooks that caught me & I twisted myself up on the line.

Eg 2 "I have an appointment coming up... I'm not sure how I will get there.. (worried sad tone of voice)."
Me: REACTING to voice tone.
"Oh? Maybe I can help? When is it?".
CAUGHT.
(I had offered & may have guilt if I try to unhook).

The hints are used to manipulate.

To get you to do what they want. And they didn't even ASK?
YOU offered!

They trained you to bite that hook.

** I had to learn NOT to bite that hook **
Helpful Answer (5)
Report
polarbear Feb 2023
Beatty, so how do you react or reply to hints?
(2)
Report
See 1 more reply
Maybe what you could have said was "Mom I just got home. I have no idea when I will return" No telling her Romeo needs to be trained. Nothing about coming buy plane. Believe me, I tend to think I need to make excuses why I am not doing something. My 37 yr old daughter (I am 73) tells me my answer only needs to be N0.

I had a 55th class reunion this year. My DH and I agreed we were not going. My GF asked if I was going, I said No. She asked why and I said I don't want to. No long explanation, just I did not want to go. This is a friend I tried to get to a class reunion for 45 years and her answer was always just No not going. The 50th was her first.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report

What happened to taking a break from posting. Yes Dorker's thread was long but she consistently tried to make changes.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report
maximus1 Feb 2023
I know Bridget. I'm still learning.
(1)
Report
See 1 more reply
Ok. I just panicked. When Romeo goes for training I'll be seeing all of my doctors, including getting therapy. ❤️
Helpful Answer (3)
Report
NeedHelpWithMom Feb 2023
Reschedule his training. Your health comes first.
(4)
Report
See 2 more replies
In order to change the behavior, one usually first needs to change the perspective.

Right now, max thinks and behaves like a 7 year old kid who has to ask and receive permissions from mommy and daddy before she can do anything.

She does very well with strangers though. Her Brooklyn NY toughness comes through loud and clear.

But mommy and daddy still keep her under their thumbs and that’s how they like it.

Until max views herself as an adult in front of her parents, nothing anyone says will do any good.
Helpful Answer (7)
Report
NeedHelpWithMom Feb 2023
Fabulous response!

Absolutely, I agree! I have said time and time again that other people will view us the way we view ourselves.

If Max shows her parents that she is helpless, by not being able to stand up to them, then that is what they will believe.

Why wouldn’t her parents believe this? They are picking up on how she views herself and taking advantage of it.
(2)
Report
I send them tons of pictures of Romeo - it doesn't matter - she wants us there including my husband. It's my fault - I used to cancel dates to go with her so she wouldn't be alone to pick up my Dad at Kennedy Airport after he returned from a flight. Granted it was fun and we all went to dinner because he was gone for a few days, but I gave up a good portion of my life to please them. I think I made her needy.
Helpful Answer (5)
Report
golden23 Feb 2023
You didn't make her needy. She's been needy all along. You just filled that need. To stop doing that is your responsibility. Focus on your responsibility to you and hub and your parents and not on fault.
Build up your life separate from them, help them find care as they age - likely a facility. Your mum will have activities and other people there. Best thing for her and for you.

Look after her needs, not her wants.
(4)
Report
See 1 more reply
Max, I need to get serious here.

You keep posting about how fabulous your parents are, what a great upbringing you had. Ad nauseum.

It's a tissue of lies.

You need some serious mental health intervention if you think it's a privilege to be paying your parents' mortgage because they gave all their funds to their mentally ill son.

Max, get yourself to your doctor TOMORROW and get followed up for your cancer dx.

THAT comes first.

Dogs and parents second.
Helpful Answer (9)
Report
sp19690 Feb 2023
Not to mention entitled parents wont show her their financials and monthly income from social security.

I am beginning to doubt that max is 63 and her parents are in their nineties. Based on her writing style and phrasings. I estimate max to be in her early to mid twenties and parents in their mid to late sixties.

I asked max what her parents did everyday while she was there for close to 3 months and no reply but in other posts she said they are in great shape and don't look like they are in their nineties. Neither of which jive with her having to wipe moms behind or dad having to do it.
(1)
Report
See 2 more replies
Max,

I would love for you to start valuing yourself for the wonderful woman that you are.

If you don’t see your own worth, you can’t possibly show your worth to your mom and dad.

You say that you canceled dates to be with your mom. I have to tell you that I would never in a million years expect my daughters to cancel dates for me.

Unless it was an emergency, I seriously doubt that they would even consider canceling a date. I raised them to be independent and think for themselves.

Whenever I invited them to dinner or whatever, I always stressed to them that if they couldn’t come over it was absolutely fine.

My parents and in-laws were the same way with us. They invited us over but we were never asked to cancel anything to be with them.

Why would you cancel a date? What did your dates think of you canceling to be with your parents?

Don’t you see how selfish it was for your mom to expect you to cancel a date?

You say that you made her needy. No, you didn’t. She is selfish for feeling that her needs come before yours.

Your needs are important. Show her that you care about your own needs and DO NOT apologize for caring about yourself.

Just try it. I’m thinking of that stupid L’Oréal commercial, “Because I am worth it.” Hey, it’s their slogan but it’s your life. You are worth it!
Helpful Answer (5)
Report
Catskie62 Feb 2023
NHWM, your kids are lucky they were raised independent & strong.
(2)
Report
See 1 more reply
Max, I haven't read all the previous responses. God bless and take care of yourself!
Helpful Answer (3)
Report
maximus1 Feb 2023
Hugs and kisses to you Catskie62
(1)
Report
This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.
Ask a Question
Subscribe to
Our Newsletter