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Thank you Barbbrooklyn for all your answers!! I wrote them all down. I feel prepared now for tomorrow. I never did call an elder lawyer today because this all happened so fast. Perhaps I will need him in the near future for his expertise on the house and Medicaid eligibility.
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One more thing, Elaine. Your mother has groomed you for a lifetime to feel guilt. YOU are not guilty YOU have not done anything wrong.

Find yourself a therapist who can help you work on these triggers.

When you see the SW tomorrow, ask about having your mother sent to a psychiatric facility for evaluation ESPECIALLY if they suggest that because she is competent, they want to send her home.

Write down a list: hoarding, panic attacks, alcoholism, refusal to seek medical care, inability to manage medications and renewals, refusal or inability to perform basic hygiene, grooming or dressing.

Present this dispassionately and calmly. Mention that you have guardianship of your adult son (that both establishes you as a person who has been found responsible by the courts AND that you already have a lot on your plate).

If they say they are sending her home in a cab, ask for an occupational therapist to evaluate her home as a place she can be safely discharged to.

Good luck and let us know how you make out! (((((Hugs)))))).

Even if she doesn't get placed this go round, EMS will have called her in to APS. If she goes home, she will end up hospitalized again soon. As long as you don't show up to take her home, they will get the message.
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(((((((hugs)))))) and prayers. elaine. Your can do this - you are doing this. As Barb says - even if, and I am not suggesting she won't but, even if she doesn't get placed this go around, she will end up in hospital again.

I would keep contact with her to a minimum for the time being - detach -emotionally distance yourself. Walk away from and do nothing from fear, obligation and guilt. You are acting in your mother's best interests whether she likes it or not.

With her issues - hoarding, lack of self care, depression etc, she absolutely needs a full psych evaluation.

My mother was in a geriatric psychiatric hospital for about 9 months. They did a full assessment. It took a while before she agreed to take the meds. Once she did, it was a different and much better ball game. Then she was placed successfully in AL.

You are doing well!!!!
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Oh Barbbrooklyn, your answers are so encouraging and helpful to me. I was feeling so scared at 5:00pm but now I am feeling confident thanks to you and ALL of you out there!! A big SHOUT OUT to all of you. Thank you so much!!! My mothers family doctor called APS but had to leave a message. I am also calling her family doctor in the morning to call the hospital like she said she would. I also wrote 3 more portal messages to her family doctor saying it is imperative she doesn’t go home and call the hospital. I am also going to call the social worker also in the morning. I’m not calling or seeing my Mother.
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Oh wow golden. I’m sorry you went through that with your mother. But I am glad everything worked out!! I hope everything works out with my mom. I can see it definitely helps me staying away. She was in the hospital on Thursday and they couldn’t release her fast enough!!! This time around she is in observatory and since I told them everything I did they said she was having a psych evaluation.
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golden23 Feb 2020
thx elaine - it has been a lifetime of going through stuff. This last phase was not the worst but it was bad enough. I found that once the appropriate professional people were involved - geriatric psychiatrists and more, I could relax somewhat and watch it happen, just stepping in as called in or needed. it was a big relief.
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I promise to update everyone tomorrow.
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Push the hospital to ADMIT mom (maybe her doctor can help with that).

If she is admitted for 3 nights, she can go to rehab, paid by Medicare.

"Psych eval" is most likely a mini mental exam, which she will pass. She needs a full scale, in patient mental health workup in a psychiatric hospital. You need to have her evaluated for mental illness, not just competency.

This is something to discuss, via the portal with her family doctor, as well.

Elaine, this is like just the beginning of the journey. Getting your mother the help she needs means that YOU have to step back, disengage and not enable her. Please remember that.
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P.S. I dont see why it's your responsibility to shovel her snow.

As POA, you can hire someone to do snow removal using her funds, but I suppose she would have to agree. If you have access to her checking account, I would hire a service to do that.
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Barb, your right about the snow removal. Last year I called someone to plow and they did and I would put it on my credit card and she would reimburse me. This winter she doesn’t look out the window with all the clutter and has been sleeping all day and up all night and since she is always mad at me I didn’t bring up she owed me money. I only had to call twice this year and I paid for it. She also hadn’t been going to the bank lately to take out money. So more depressed and sleeping this winter than last. I fact the other day she couldn’t write out an envelope so I did it. She also said before she dialed 911 yesterday morning, she tried to write a bill and couldn’t do it. I have to tell the doctor that too!! I hope they send her to a psychiatric hospital for months. At least she would be taken care of there too. She has 35,000 in her checking account, her house, her social security, and half my fathers pension. That’s all of it. It can all be used for her care.
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Thank you for all your responses!! Everyone is in agreement and that is a lot of you!! Thank you for brainstorming with me.
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Elaine; You started out your post saying that you are scared.

Try to figure out what is scaring you. If you are afraid that your mother may die, then that's pretty normal.

If you are afraid of your mother's wrath, or of being " investigated" or made to feel that you should be taking your mother home with you, please be aware that you are doing the RIGHT THING. And should feel no guilt.
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Hang in there, Elaine

I feel like things are going to turn around for you and your mom. She will finally be where she needs to be, out of her two story home, and you will have peace of mind knowing that you are doing what is best for her. She will acclimate to her new surroundings.

Sending loads of good thoughts your way. 💗
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Elaine how are you feeling this morning? I just got caught up on this thread and I am so sorry for all that you are dealing with, but you have gotten great advice and you are holding strong, good for you! You are doing what is best for your mother.

I am hoping that you can have your mom admitted as Barb said and have FULL mental health evaluation including for mental illness.

I hope you are doing okay. I'm sending you all the positive vibes I can and along with everyone here we are holding your hand as you go through this challenging time.

Huge hug {{{{Elaine}}}}}
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Hi Barbbrooklyn, Needhelpwithmom, lealonnie, exhausted piper and everyone!! No updates yet. I haven’t talked to my mother. I called the social worker and she said she would get back to me later. I did talk to the nurse at her family doctor and she did talk to the social worker and filled her in on everything. The nurse also called APS and filled her up n on everything but told the nurse it would be denied because she is in the hospital. They can’t get involved if she is in the hospital. The hospital needs to take over. So now I sit back and wait. I’m not going up to the hospital unless the social worker wants to see me alone and I will show her the pictures.
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The only thing I feel upset or guilty about is that I haven’t called her or gone to the hospital at all. In her mind she thinks I hate her and want her dead. She doesn’t know that I’m trying to keep her safe and behind the scenes trying to get her the care she needs. I see how she shuts down and stops talking to people. She didn’t talk to her brothers family for 4 years. Then when she went to a psych facility in 1976 for making harassment calls to her sister n law and brother n law she never spoke to them again. I’m just having pangs about whether I should call her or go visit her.
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Katsmihur Feb 2020
My parents cut people out of their lives, too, because of stupid reasons. Mom hasn’t responded to my letters or calls in weeks, hasn’t asked about her grandchildren - all because she didn’t get her car keys returned from me.

Don’t worry about Mom being mad at you. She’ll get over it. And if not, you stay busy with your life. Self care, my dear, self care.

* I’m speaking to myself here, as well. *
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I mean I’ll have to talk to her at some point, right? I have POA and the bills at her house still have to get paid. I think she has her checkbook in her purse which she has on her at the hospital. I get her mail for her and the phone bill is due.
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Still waiting to hear back from the social worker. I called her family and talked to the nurse and she is waiting to hear from the social worker too. I am just feeling like I should call my mother. Tell her I’m sick and can’t come up. How are you doing? Or something to that effect. The longer I go without talking to her the more I know she will have resentment towards me and never speak to me.
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ExhaustedPiper Feb 2020
Elaine, the FOG is getting you. I know how hard it is to get through sometimes. It's only been a day. The bills can wait a couple more days (at least). Right now the main thing is YOUR state of mind. Try to stay calm and let the professionals do their job. Your mom is not all alone on some deserted island, she is in a fully staffed hospital, safe and getting what she needs.

If possible wait this out until some decisions have been made. You want things to change, right? In fact you know they need to change, right? So your mom is going to go through some transitions until she settles into LTC. She is not going to remember that you didn't call for one or two days in the hospital. IF she does tell her you were sick and lost your voice (or some other therapeutic fib).
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Elaine, visit your mom if you have the ability to be a grey rock and not respond to her provocations.

"Mom, would you like your bills to get paid?".

(If yes)."Then I'll need some checks to do so". (why aren't her bills set up for auto magic electronic billpay??).

If she makes a fuss, get up and leave. Inform the social worker via email, phone and snail mail that your mother is not cooperating with paying bills and you regret the fact that you need to resign your POA. Call mom's lawyer to arrange to do that.

Do not engage in any conversation about going home. "We will have to see what the doctor says, mom. How is the food? Can you work the TV okay?"

Keep the conversation neutral and if she acts out, get up and say (nicely) I'll come back when you are feeling better.

Do. Not. Engage in arguments with her.
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I'm so happy and relieved for you. You're doing your part. Stay strong my dear one. Keep us posted, please. Here's a hug and more for you!!!!
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I just talked with the social worker from the hospital. I told her everything. She’s not bathing or changing her clothes, a hoarder, how the EMTs took 1 1/2 hours to get her to the hospital because of all the junk in her house that was in the way. How she is mentally ill, how she is verbally abusive to me. How she needs a psych evaluation and when I was all done talking she says to me “does this mean you aren’t going to pick her up from the hospital and bring her home????” I screamed NO!!! Now I lost it!! I yelled back at her and said if you let her go home in a cab it is an UNSAFE DISCHARGE!!! If something happens to her when she gets home then you are liable not me!!!!! I’m not helping anymore!!!! I’m done with it all!! My own mental health is at stake!!! I have pictures of her hoarding house. She says well get back to you. I’m fuming right now.,Likr barb said, if she is so friggin competent then she can DO IT ALL!!!! Everything by herself!!!!! If the driveway never gets plowed again ever. Oh well!!! I’m not her guardian!!!!
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She is not going anywhere willingly!!! The damn law is on her side!!!! I’m sure they think she is competent!!! I told them she is mentally ill and needs a psych evaluation!!!! They need to friggin sedate her. It is an unsafe discharge!!! Nobody to help her. I’m done!!! Period!!!!
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This is turning into a nightmare!! She has rights!!! I feel like I have unleashed everything to everybody for nothing!!!! Talking to doctors, unleashing to the social worker, getting APS involved for nothing!! I feel like it’s all for nothing and my mom is going back home to her pig pen and she will never speak to me again because I tried to “PUT HER AWAY”. These are all my thought and fears. Not my mothers. I haven’t even talked to her yet.
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Tothill Feb 2020
Elaine if your mother never speaks to you again, you will no longer have to deal with her. Resign as POA and take your life back.

you have done everything to inform the authorities that Mum is not safe at home. The ball is no longer in your court.
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Did the SW say anything about sending her home in a cab?

Isn't it likely that your mentally ill mother has been going on all day about her daughter is going to pick her up and won't stand for this? And ranting and raving about how she is being held against her will, or something like that.

Yes, she has rights. And the hospital needs a good bit of evidence to be able to overstep them.

This is not about how she treats you. This is about HEr living conditions and her ability to take care of herself.


And if they say she is competent, you are more than justified in letter her be .
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Elaine, let the process play out, the social worker said she’d get back to you, so wait. And yes, waiting is hard, but please don’t let it make you do something you’ll regret. You’ve done great, made it this far, don’t turn back, stand firm. You’re advocating for your mom, you’re her champion even if she never sees it, she’s blessed to have you looking out for her. It’s for the best that the advocating be done from a distance right now, but it’s helping her nevertheless. You’ve said and done all the right things, keep it up! Best wishes, know it’s so hard
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I don’t believe this!!! I just talked to the social worker and she got a 26 out of 30 on her mocca test and they are sending her home by a cab!!! I was livid. I said this is a unsafe discharge!! I told the worker then you better call the cops to do a welfare check, because I’m not going over there.,I’m not mowing the lawn, I’m not shoveling the snow. So if she is so competent she can figure out a way to do everything. I’m done!!! What more can I do???? I’m so pissed!!! The law is on her side!!!!
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rovana Feb 2020
The advantage of having the cops do the welfare check is that mom's situation gets on a paper trail. You should have a consult with an elder attorney - I found it extremely empowering to know exactly what my obligations were and were not. I was armored against lies and manipulation. I knew where I stood and didn't have to waste time and energy guessing what the law was.  A poster above suggested looking into hiring services and standing back personally.  If at all possible I would suggest doing that. You truly must take care of yourself.  But please keep in mind that you cannot help someone who refuses help. And a mentally ill mom who is bent on "suicide on the installment" plan is definitely beyond your ability to help.
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I told the social worker to tell her I love her but I’m done!!! I’m done helping her. She treats me like sh*t!! I’m done!!
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Daughterof1930 Feb 2020
I’m sorry Elaine. Your mom has been a victim of “falling between the cracks” of our inadequate system of healthcare. You can truly say that you’ve done all you can. At some point self preservation has to happen and that point has happened for you. I hope you’ll do something good for yourself, get some rest, and be at peace
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I would talk to the Doctor who was assigned to Mom. Tell him they are discharging her to an unsafe place. That she has a mental illness. That you can no longer do for her. You need to work. She needs 24/7 care you cannot provide. She needs to be evaluated. You refuse to pick her up and return her to an unsafe house.
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Elaine,

My heart is broken for you. The people we trusted to intervene don’t seem to feel the urgency we do. I wonder to myself, what would it take for them to act? What is the threshold that must be met in order for them to intervene?
I am so very sorry. I understand your exhaustion, hurt and anger with the process. You have done everything and more, only to be horribly let down again.
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Elaine, Barb's advice to go grey rock will help you keep your equilibrium -- use this for everyone, including family. With family, keep things to summaries with no details they can pick apart. With her hospital admission, ask if her admission is classified as "under observation" or "inpatient". This makes a difference in what Medicare will cover after she's been there 3 midnights. Inpatient is what you want.

She's going to be mad at you and lash out - that's a given. Don't let your fear of her being angry with you or upset with you guide any decisions. Your job is to see that she's taken care of, not to do the 24/7 care yourself. You know you're looking out for her, while protecting yourself. You're doing great -- many of us took far longer to set healthy boundaries.
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She’s going home today by cab. How the hell can she live alone!! I was telling this to her doctor and the social worker at the hospital. She is of sound mind and Did well with physical therapy test. Who going to get her mail? She can’t. Whose going to take out her garbage down the driveway. She can’t. Whose going to shovel, mow the lawn? She can’t. They are sending her home anyways!!!!!!!!!!
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rovana Feb 2020
Is it possible that they do know all this, but legally they must let it play out to disaster?  Sometimes that IS the ONLY WAY!
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