Follow
Share
Read More
This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.
Find Care & Housing
I have another perspective that may explain the guilt.

The following comparison is not meant to be disrespectful, but to help me understand the OP's guilt...

I raise backyard chickens, and now and then, one of them would get sick. The sick hen would stop eating, drinking, and basically was starving and wasting away. As much as I hated seeing the hen suffer, I just could not in a million years pick up a hatchet and strike her neck to end her suffering. That very act would haunt me for years. I just could not bring myself to do it. I would have nightmares and would feel very awful that I snuffed out a life even though that life was going to end soon anyway. Thankfully, I have my husband who does that job for me, and I tell him to spare me the details.

Perhaps, the act of giving morphine which snuffs out a life (a little sooner) is too much for some people to handle.
Helpful Answer (4)
Report
cinderblock Jun 2022
Thank you for saying this. I feel like many on here are being more judgmental than they ought. In my case, I was literally his hospice nurse, because he died at home and no nurses were available. So for the last 5 days of his life, I was at his bedside 24/7 administering all the meds. He had a pump, but there were other meds that I had to inject into sub-Q lines. I do have a therapist, and she is very understanding, thank God, because most people just say "It wasn't your fault" and that just causes the sufferer to stop talking about it. My therapist is a medical doctor, and she says she would *never* want that job, that I had, for her own father.
I hope the OP doesn't stop reaching out, and I'm so thankful for your kind and understanding post.
(4)
Report
See 1 more reply
you absolutely cannot trust your gut feeling that your mother would have lived a few days longer. when my dad went into the hospital for the last time they said he had 'days to weeks' to live. he died 12 *hours* later. he was alert and chatty when he went in and talked with mom all night. also, as others have said, the nurse would not have given the dose if it wasn't allowed.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
NightHeron Jun 2022
Exactly. We can't know. My dad was given 6 months and died in 3 weeks. A friend of mine with breast cancer was given a few months and died in a few days. There are other cases of someone outliving their prognosis.

Who knows whether Karin's mother would have lived a few days. What we know is that it is merciful that she didn't, in that condition. I hope Karin can find some peace.
(0)
Report
You did not "kill your mother". You said yourself "My mother was dying from pneumonia, she had been sick for 15 years from multiple strokes". She was literally in the process of dying. If you want to feel guilty about it, you are free to do so, but WHY? You certainly didn't do anything to hurt her. You did exactly as you were supposed to. You called in a medical professional who administered medications to assist your mother. Let's, for argument's sake, say your mom lived another day or two beyond what she did. What would this have done? It's VERY likely she would have suffered more and been administered even more morphine to assist her. Dying...much like birthing...isn't a cut and dried event. It's a process that will occur when it does. Again, you did NOTHING WRONG. As for a "proper goodbye": You had been having a goodbye for all the long years you cared for her. Please seek a therapist to help you work through your guilt for something over which you had absolutely no control (you had a bit a input, that's all). Hugs to you. Please, please give yourself a break. Years are too few to be consumed by guilt for nothing done wrong.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report

Bereavement is not supposed to last 9 years. This has nothing to do with your mother's death any more. You have a mental health problem that causes you to have depression and severe obsessive thoughts. You need to be treated by a psychiatrist and not a therapist. You will need psychotropic medications.
Helpful Answer (0)
Report
lealonnie1 Jun 2022
I thought making diagnoses and prescribing medications on AgingCare was against the rules. Reporting my comment to the admins for review.
(5)
Report
Please see a counselor. You really need some professional help dealing with your feelings and What you went through. Besides you’re not professionally trained like the nurse was. Ultimately it was the nurses decision whether to give the second morphine shot or not.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report

Karin, please see not note below DoubleVision's response to you. I think you were witnessing for your mom the respiration pattern called Cheyne-Stokes breathing, which is normal and natural in the last hours of life. It involves a peculiar pattern that looks like deep breathing, then NO breathing, then gasps that look like air hunger as the breathing shuts down. They are normal at end of life. Morphine eases the breathing patterns, but doesn't eliminate this type of breathing. It is NORMAL to the end of life.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report
KarinBe Jun 2022
Dear AlvaDeer, thank you so much for your response.
My mother had NO pauses, her respirations were without pauses.
Everywhere you can read about Cheyne-Stokes, but the fast, hard, machine-like breathing is nowhere to be found.

Also, my mother got 7,5 mg of morphine in each shot and 5 mg of Stesolid(sedatives). Even in one shot that is a high amount for an opiod-naive palliative patient, am I not right?
When the nurse came back with the second shot, she said mom was going to get a little more. "A LITTLE MORE" IS NOT 7,5 MG AGAIN!!
I did not know this when it happened, but moths later when I recieved her medical journal.
(1)
Report
See 1 more reply
Alva is spot on with that comment.

Karin--you really, really need to come to terms with this. After 9 years and still feeling some measure of guilt b/c you couldn't 'save' your mom. Picking over her medical records for someone else to blame, maybe? Won't make you feel better.

Your mom died of natural causes. Perhaps hastened, ever so slightly by medical intervention.

If she had been happy, active or even enjoying life, that's one thing, but like my dads, she was ready to die and we have to respect and love our 'people' enough to let them go. And to help them have the peace and dignity that comes with the proper medications.

I would not change one thing about the way I 'helped' my FIL die, and I personally dosed my daddy with morphine MANY times. He always thanked me. In fact, he begged me to OD him, but we were never given enough morphine at one time to do that. Because I would have honored his request if I could have.

Firmly believing in an afterlife helped me to know that both the men are still living, in the next life. I believe death is simply a transitioning to a much, much better place. No pain, no anguish.

I hope you get some serious therapy to help you out of the depression you're in. Your mom would not want that!
Helpful Answer (5)
Report

The person who killed her is the medical professional who gave her the shot, not you.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
AlvaDeer Jun 2022
It is extremely unlikely that anyone was "killed" here, Mark.
(5)
Report
See 1 more reply
The person who killed her is what kills all of us: our bodies aren't meant to last forever.

Mark--I know you meant well, but mom signed on for hospice and morphine shots can be a part of that. You don't need to dump the 'blame' on anyone.
Helpful Answer (4)
Report

Trying to treat OCD with logic is the same waste of time as trying to make a demented person, to remember again.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
AlvaDeer Jun 2022
T,
I know you love to give your armchair diagnoses, but it is best we remember that we are NOT medical professionals, ( if we ARE medical professionals, we would NEVER make so bold as to diagnose a person we have never met and examined thoroughly.)
We have really no IDEA what might help Karin, and we can only suggest things we think "might help", ask questions, sympathize, empathize, and TRY, out of our individual life experiences to help in some small way.
It concerns me that you keep throwing out what I call Fortune Cookie diagnoses to our folks.
Karin MAY have some obsessive thinking. More likely she has just formed habitual circular thinking that talking to someone could help. We cannot know. In fact, we can't have a clue.
Karin is responsive to ideas and clearly very bright and engaged. I trust her to get help for herself from her OWN professionals.
(5)
Report
Hi KarinBe,

We're happy you have found the support of others here on this site. You've already received some excellent advice, but there are limits to what untrained members of the forum can provide for you.

If you are experiencing thoughts of suicide, please reach out to experts for additional support. "Mind" offers mental health resources in Sweden, including an anonymous Suicide Line you can reach by calling 90 101 or by starting an online chat on their website: https://mind.se/.

You may also want to learn about complicated grief and specialized therapies proven to help family caregivers who are experiencing ongoing struggles with loss and trauma.

Read more about complicated grief and how it's treated here:
https://www.agingcare.com/articles/accelerated-resolution-therapy-may-help-family-caregivers-cope-with-complicated-grief-439255.htm

Hang in there and please take care of yourself!
Helpful Answer (6)
Report
AlvaDeer Jun 2022
Thanks admins: I hadn't even read this complicated grief article!
(0)
Report
See 1 more reply
Here is another perspective: I will assume that you believe in an afterlife of some sort. Apologies if I'm wrong on that.

But if so... do you think she is looking at you now and thinking "she killed me"?
No! She is able to see your soul and the pure heart you had then and do now. Would she want you to use your remaining time on this earth being sad and self-blaming? No! Honor her by living your life to the fullest and happiest you're able. The last thing she would want is for you to feel as if you've died too.

You've grieved for nine years now. It's time to move forward. Of course you'll always miss her, and maybe get sad when you're reminded of her. But your mother brought you on this earth for a reason, and it was not for you to grieve yourself to death!

If she hadn't gotten those shots, would she still be alive today? If so, would she have a good quality of life? It doesn't sound like it.

Her passing did not happen the way you thought it would. It's hard to accept when it doesn't end the way we'd expected. You obviously loved your mother very much... be thankful you had her for as long as you did! What a blessing that is!

We feel terrible when we have caused hurt to someone we love. Would you want her to feel terrible now? That her death caused you so much anguish? That you hold yourself responsible for it? Don't do that to Mom or yourself. Honor Mom by releasing this pain and hurt.
Helpful Answer (5)
Report
KarinBe Jun 2022
Dear LoopyLoo, thank you so very much. You are absolutely right in every word, I am very moved by your answer, I will write it dor´wn word by word and keep it where I can see it every day<3.
(2)
Report
See 1 more reply
No you did not. Let go of the guilt and the loss.
Helpful Answer (0)
Report
KarinBe Jul 2022
Thank you for responding, that was kind.
(0)
Report
Oh my goodness there is nothing you did that you should feel guilty about! You were and are a loving daughter, please let yourself let go of this guilt!
Helpful Answer (0)
Report
KarinBe Jul 2022
Dear Lisa, thank you. But if I have not rang the nurse that second time in panic, if I had not neglected my mom´s attempt to show me she didn´t want that second dose, things would have been very different. One never knows, but it´s just a terrible burden to know that I interferred with her death.
(0)
Report
I know it's hard for you to let go. I too hastened my Mom's death. She was bed ridden and had pulmonary fibrosis. We had just hired a lady to sit with her during the week to give my Dad a break. I went up on my day off and weekends to help out. She needed changing, I was cleaning the bathrooms, and Mary ask if I wanted to help. Of course she was my Mom and I would have done anything for her. I rolled her over and was holding her while Mary cleaned her up. Mary noticed something wasn't right and told me to let her back down. When I did her face was blue. I had cut her oxygen off without realizing.

What gets me through was knowing how totally miserable she was after being put on oxygen and she had broken her hip with the last fall she had and was bed ridden. She hated being bed ridden and having to have people wait on her. She was always cooking, cleaning, canning... I still miss her and she has been gone for 6 years. We do the best with can. We are not nurses or doctors all we can do is Love them and take care of them as best we can. Since you and her were so close I'm sure she was glad it was you that was with her at that time. She would have wanted you to get some rest and would have probably told you that had she been able.

I know it's hard, but try to think of the good times when you see yourself diving into that dark place. She knew you loved her or you would not have been there. Honor her memory by taking care of yourself and loving those in your life now. She would have only wanted your happiness. She knows she was fortunate to have you with her.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report
KarinBe Jul 2022
Thank you so much. I am sorry that happened to you and your mom<3.
Like yours mine was also very fed up with life lived in that way...
But she had been sick since I was 16, and died when I was 42, we should have needed a proper goodbye. But she knew we loved her very much, I only think SHE would have wanted to express her love and gratitude towards us.
I know she forgives me, but I am so so sorry that I destoyed the end.
(0)
Report
We are not trained medical personnel. You did what you thought was right. I know she would not want to live in pain or with dementia. The caretakers do the best we can with the knowledge we have. And the i formation we have. Please forgive yourself. Pretty sure your mom would not want you living with this guillt. Please see a therapist to talk through this.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
KarinBe Jul 2022
Thank you, dear.
(0)
Report
If it makes you feel a little better, you could cut off dealing with any medical personnel (ie her doctor, nurse, etc) that was responsible for her care, if you have not done so already.
Helpful Answer (0)
Report
KarinBe Jul 2022
Thanks, yes I tried to communicate but they stopped answering years ago.
(0)
Report
See 2 more replies
She should have gone to the hospital. Things happen for a reason and thats what
you need to know to stop this guilt. If you have faith she is at a place we all would hope to be when we pass. It has become a nasty habit now. When you can do nothing about the choice you made, let it go. That the only choice you have. If you
enjoy feeling the way you do, or use it as an excuse to do nothing or stay on drugs
like anti depressants its a high I am told. Look I was raped and sodomized for 6 hours in a hospital! That was in 1985 and I was 30. I had a good reason to be screwed up. Hell no, I was not about to let that horrid experience keep on going. No way. For that reason in a few days, I considered it part of my life and forget it,
because like you there was absolutely nothing I can do about. Life is what you make it. Ask the Lord for forgiveness and really mean it and he will. Tell him to tell your mom your sorry, she knows you made the right decision at that time and she does not want to grieve for her. That is the reply that will come in your thoughts. Recognized them, and dont talk about anymore, MOVE ON.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
KarinBe Jul 2022
Thank you very much for responding<3.
(0)
Report
I agree 1000 with the advice to get counseling ( grief) and medication sooner rather thane later. Trust me, this is something way to big to handle yourself. Having a caring, empathetic counselor-experienced with grief - and medication ( perhaps a low dose antidepressant?) to help you focus enough to "hear" and "process" what you our out and talk through will save you. I went through years of pain - watching my Dad waste away and die from chronic leukemia and then colon cancer...I helped Mom care for him at him until he passed at home ( she refused hospice, and the hospices companies would not listen to my begging ...Dad was often begging me to "stop the pain"...painful memories of screaming at my Mom during those last weeks ...watching him groan in agony...the day she caved in was the day he passed - and I was on my way to the pharmacy to get morphine - hospice had been called the day before...what I saw and went through the day of his death and right afterwards ...I still have horrible dreams...then my mom declined -depression, osteoporosis -broken hip, neck, back, sternum, etc...then a stroke and 2 heart attacks ...she kept fighting and I kept pushing -- rehabs --she came and lived with me the last 3 years...then a about 3 months before she died she was in rehab for the last time - doing well actually - walking with a walker for the first time in years ( had been wheelchair -bound) ...then suddenly, autoimmune hepatitis developed, liver failure and death. I was with her the last 10 days in the hospital under hospice ...I watched the morphine, the IV drip for hydration and glucose, she refused to eat, watched the pain as her body was shutting down...I thought morphine killed her -- too many doses, too close together ,,,but now, 2 years later, I think it was merciful those last days -- peacefully shutting down, me holding her, talking to her , so different than my Dad's agony...there is no easy way - saying goodbye and watching death is painful - I watched the slow deaths of my parents and the sudden deaths ( heart attack) of my husband and grandmother ---different griefs, different pains - both heart-wrenching and full of suffering - grief, guilt, sadness, etc. When I fell into despair and depression from guilt of the "should haves", "why didn't I ?"," my fault", etc... I was suicidal --but could not leave my husband, son and the rest of my family which would then suffer what I did. The help of a loving grief counselor ( saw her 2x a week for the first 9 months or so, then 1x a week for another months or so ...and a psychiatrist who worked with her who convinced me to take a low dose of zoloft through the worst months), saved my life...really. Gradually, I cried, ached, scarred and got stronger. 2 years later, I have moments of sharp pain, but I am enjoying my life, my family, my job, me life. God, his medical team, this forum, and the love of family and friends was the village that made my life worth it again --- let me laugh and smile again. Life is a precious gift - please do the hard work of counseling and work THROUGH the pain to get to the other side - a rainbow is there. I am living proof...Love, Laura
Helpful Answer (2)
Report
KarinBe Jul 2022
Thank you so much, Laura. I understand all that grief and guilt you have gone through. You are right, I will try and work it through- again. Seen many therapists the years after it happened, have written in many forums too.
It eased a little- but then I told myself that maybe she hadn´t been given too much morphine, and so on.. but this time I fell into this black hole, I just feel very certain that that is what happened.
And I cannot understand how I could neglect my Mom trying to tell me NO! with her eyes when she was about to recieve the second shot.
The only thing I can think of, is that i didn´t understand the severity of morphine AND that the horrible fast and loud breathing told me that something was not right and I tried to fix it.
The good caring daughter who always tried to fix things for Mom...only this time it turned out I did the opposite.
(0)
Report
See 1 more reply
Sorry for the indelicate question, but how many people have you sat with as they died?

Are you a trained doctor, nurse, palliative care attendant? Or have you lived experience from attending many family deaths & have witnessed various end of life breathing changes?

Warning: more tough love;

Was the timing, doses & deliveries of medications inc morphine up to you? Only you?
No. These things are prescribed, timed & delivered by medical staff.

STOP beating yourself up over any lack of medical & end of life knowledge.

STOP telling yourself so many lies. #1 lie is that you had all the control over someone's life or death. A lie. You didn't.

Absolutely reach out for grief counseling. Lay this burden down where someone professional can help you sort through all the emotions. Show you the lies too.

I do honestly wish you peace.
Helpful Answer (7)
Report
KarinBe Jul 2022
Thank you, Beatty.
No, I am not a trained nurse and yes, it was the first death I ever attended (not really attended, since I went to bed).
I wish the nurse and the doctor haven´t agreed to try and "save" her, they later admitted there wasn´t any chance, they said yes to that, just to please us, her kids. So the night she died, we didn´t know what to believe, was she dying or wasn´t she??
it was not the chief nurse that administred the medication that night, it was a nurse that was on night duty.
Later I recieved my Mom´s records( is that the word, medical journal in my country) and they had changed the times of when the morphine shots were given. This is clear evidence that thing were not handled the right way.
I later also found out that the nurse who worked that night had been fired..

and the
(0)
Report
See 1 more reply
I'm sorry this is haunting you. I think we all feel guilty, to some degree. I wonder if it would have been better had I not put my mom in hospice. Please talk to a counselor or minister who can help you with this. I'm sure you did the best you knew to do at the time.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report
KarinBe Jul 2022
Thank you<3
(0)
Report
KarinBe - My heart aches for you. When you are "in it" you can't even see far enough in front of you to scream/reach for help ...I get it-trust me. I would not eat, just try to sleep to escape the pain. People would talk to me, cry with me, reason with me, ok, sometimes, even yell at me ( in love), shake me ... but none of it got through because I was too deep in the pit to even be willing to try to see the spot of light being shown my way - ask Alva - I spent MONTHS there. Everntually I got sick of feeling sick - alienating my husband, family and friends. My son told me - "Mom, you are not dead - you are alive...but you are acting as if you are dead. Please find a way to come back - we can't lose you too!" The sad truth is there are lots of lifelines -lots of help out there - but ONLY YOU can make the firs step forward...only YOU can make the call to get help. Research grief counselors- talk to them, find one whose background and beliefs fit you. My first one did not work - she was too young - kind, caring, experienced in hospice, but I had decades of experience with suffering on her. My 2nd counselor was a gift from God - over the course of a year she and the psychiatrist whom I talked to monthly ( all remote as it was during COVID), reached in grabbed my hand and pulled me out of the pit. But as Alva always reminded me, I HAD TO WANT TO COME OUT -- it got comfy there ( hard to explain) - and for a long time, I was not wiling to put in the work and energy to try to heal ...you CAN do it - you must. Life is too precious to waste time. I loved my parents more than anyone - really. I saw them every day - or talked to them every day ..cared for them every day . i had guilt over so many decisions I made all the way around with them -- like you, I had convinced myself it was my fault my Mom died. But you know what? In time, and with help, l learned I always did the BEST I COULD with WHAT I HAD and WHAT I KNEW ...it is easy in hindsight after reading countless resources books and internet research to say "what if", " maybe if I had or hadn't" ...but that is an endless abyss leading no where. Did you love your Mom? of course or you wouldn't be hurting? Did you WANT to MAKE HER FEEL BETTER? of course! so you intentions and heart were right and good - no guilt there...only love. Were you perfect? No. Am I? no. Is any caregiver? no. You did the best you could with what you knew and where you were at the time. That is all any of us can do.
One thing my counselor taught me ( and I still use it sometimes still) is to limit the amount of time thinking about a subject. For example, in early counseling/grief, I allowed myself 2 hours a day ( 1 in the am/ 1 in the pm) to cry, scream, cuss, condemn myself., the doctors, the caregivers who helped me....my family - EVERYONE. Then I DISCIPLINED myself to STOP - made myself do other things -work, exercise, talk to friends, etc...until I weaned myself down to1 minutes a day ....then 1 minutes every other day - you get the idea.
Emotions are. They are not wrong or right. But, if we don't learn to control them as part of us - they control ( and often can ruin) our relationships, our lives. I have faith you can get to the other side - you have already proven your strength. Love yourself now like you loved your Mom - get better...day by day.....xxxooooo
Helpful Answer (3)
Report
Beatty Jul 2022
Truly heartfelt experience.
Thank you so much for sharing. It will surely help others who are feeling alone 🤗
(1)
Report
Sorry -- typo - meant eventually weaned myself down to 15 minutes a day...
Helpful Answer (0)
Report

You cannot kill. Your mother left because it was time for her to go. Her home was ready in heaven and she was called. I have been with my Grandmother, Mama, Daddy and sister as they were called to their heavenly homes and let me tell you, I did not kill them, the nurse, the meds did not kill them it was time God called them and now they are at peace - no pain they walk, they run and the visit with the people that have gone on before them. Please know you did not hurry that death. You love and you miss but know that Mom is happy and not hurting now.
Helpful Answer (0)
Report

This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.
Ask a Question
Subscribe to
Our Newsletter