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First it is not the aunt's children's responsibility to be her caregiver. They made their choice about their mother...however I still question why they didn't remove their father from the situation if they saw that he was in danger.

The OP has now set herself up for future caregiving. Are there any decent ALs in your area as the Plan B when auntie can no longer function on her own? You are setting yourself up for doctor visits and errand runs. There may be services available in your area but I bet auntie will find it EASIER if you just do it for her. (That was my father's line to me).
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EmotionallyNumb May 2022
Yes, she's already asking about groceries and doctor visits. I'm going to show her how to order grocery delivery and give her the number of the local bus service to set up rides to the doctor.

Personally, I think the kids are partially using this as an excuse to get out of having to help her with anything or clean out the house or basically deal with her, but what are you going to do? Can't make someone be involved.
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Although it is her childrens responsibility, clearly they’re not going to do anything.

Talk to her. FIRMLY let her know she cannot live with you. Do NIT give in to the tears! DO NOT CAVE.

Find an assisted living facility (or senior apartment) for her that is near you so that you and your mom can visit often.

Help her w paperwork and selling her house.

unless she tied the noose and kicked the stool from under husband, I don’t know how she can be blamed for his suicide.
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polarbear May 2022
Being bullied and tormented relentlessly day after day will break a person down and drive him/her to suicide. There have been many suicides by kids, teens, and young adults due to being bullied and cyber bullied. Search the Internet and you will find many stories that made the news. Probably many more that didn't.

ALL of the aunt's children said their father was tormented by their mother, among other things she did to him. I could see how a sick, desperate old man be driven to suicide if he was tormented relentlessly day after day with no other way to escape.
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You might not like this, but my idea is to tell them upon a certain date 2 or 3 months from now that she is no longer your responsibility plus tell them that on that day you will also put her back in her home which I think you said she still owns with a child nearby. That's how you tell them. Set some boundaries. Give them advance warning. They will complain and get very angry at you, but have some emotional boundaries in place to not absorb or identify with it. They may even wait until the day before the move, the day of or even the day after to see if you are really serious. I'd frankly be like that navy admiral who told his fleet to dam the torpedoes, full speed ahead and they won. Oh, back then torpedoes did not always work. Take no prisoners and get your freedom. If you need a therapist to cheerlead and support you, then get one. There is no shame in that. Most people in therapy are there talking about their own family members anyway.
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sp19690 May 2022
Too late she is already helping the aunt buy a place near mom and her. Only a matter of time until she is doing for the aunt all the time to.
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EN, if you do a Google search, your state and Miller trust it will bring up the information.

I want to tell you that I think your Auntie is very blessed to have you to help her.

May The Lord bless you for all you do!
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I so hope you can find her help when she needs it. Do research when u can so your ready when the time comes. And set those boundries with both Mom and Aunt. This is what I am willing to do and what I am willing to do. When the house sells, pay off any debts she has. Even if she wasn't at the funeral, she is responsible to pay for it. Any money from the house you may want to put in a separate acct. Do not allow her to give any of it away. This money is for her care. If she eventually goes into an AL or even LTC, it goes to pay for her care and needs. Keep good records because if she ever needs Medicaid, she will need to prove where the money went from the sale of her house. It must be sold at Market rate. Keep all paperwork pertaining to the sale. You keep everything. You never know what an elder will do.

I had Mom get all her important paperwork together in one place. We agreed it would be kept in her hutch. I needed it one day and it wasn't under the hutch. When asked where it was, she said that at the front door for easier access.

Good Luck and pray everything goes as smooth as possible. Please come back and tell us how things are going.
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EN - I am wondering how many children does your aunt have? I know there are at least two since you have been referring to them as plural.

I find it hard to believe that ALL her children could be so callous as to blame their mother for their father's death, and abandon her to be homebound in a town with little service for the elder.

Are they that heartless or do they have a long history with her that caused them to act that way towards her? I can't imagine that if they had a long loving relationship with her all their lives, then suddenly they turned on her on a dime over one event or one big mistake. My bet is that there is much more to their relationship that lead the children to hate their mother that much.
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EmotionallyNumb May 2022
They are all cutting her off together, they have discussed and are presenting a united front against her. I am sure there is way more to their relationships than I am aware of.
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Your original question said “I work full time and am barely keeping my head above water managing my mom and her needs, doctor appointments, 'behavior'. My aunt has complex health needs and I imagine a lot of doctor appointments, etc”.

Who is going to help your aunt to deal with these “needs and appointments”, not to mention the etcetera? The “4 other siblings in town that may be able to help her a little bit” are the same elderly generation as your needy mother and your needy aunt. Which ‘little bit’ do you think they will be able to help with?

You may not approve of the stand that your cousins have taken, but for your own sake PLEASE talk to them about what this is going to mean for you if you go ahead. It’s a slippery slope going in, and a much harder crawl getting out of these ‘obligations’.
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Beatty May 2022
Like love.. marry in haste - repent at leisure.
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EN, your aunt is an adult who is responsible for her own life.

You're already caring for your mom.

Why can't she organize this move herself?

Beware of "mission creep"--oh, just this once. It will turn into another full-time caregiving gig.
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EmotionallyNumb, you write: "She has too much money to qualify for any help but not enough to pay for a caregiver on her own."

Margaret McKen writes: "Helping her with dealing with her accommodation and moving her to your own town, is going to raise her expectations about future assistance from you."

Margaret is correct! Why are you moving her to your town. It looks like YOU are planning to become her caregiver!
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EmotionallyNumb May 2022
I live in the town that she and my mom grew up in and they also have have 4 other siblings in town that may be able to help her a little bit. Her town doesn't have services and she doesn't know anyone else in any other towns.
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EN, please check about Miller trusts aka Qualified income trust BEFORE you move her.

Not all states allow these and you want to ensure you aren't moving her away from a state that allows them to a state that doesn't.

This is what will be needed to get her assistance and she will most likely need a facility before long, if there is any truth in what your cousins claim.
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EmotionallyNumb May 2022
We live in the same state, but thank you, I will look into this.
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Perhaps your cousins are correct about what went on in their parents’ marriage – which still leaves the question about why they didn’t intervene, or help their father to ‘escape’.

If you think that there is any truth in really unpleasant behavior from your aunt, please be careful about how close you get to her. Helping her with dealing with her accommodation and moving her to your own town, is going to raise her expectations about future assistance from you. And a relationship between her and your own mother, from your past statements, could go in unpredictable and unpleasant ways. Try not to let your good intentions backfire on your own household. This is still a very unusual and very distressing set of issues for all the members of the family to dealt with.
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EmotionallyNumb May 2022
I agree and have the same concerns but I can't leave her sitting alone in a house in the middle of nowhere by herself.
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EmotionallyNumb - I am curious as to why the cousins thought their mother was responsible for their father's suicide. Did you by chance ask the cousins? Are they unreasonable people? Or do they know something you don't.
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EmotionallyNumb May 2022
They think she mentally tormented him and hid the phone and car keys so he couldn't leave.
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My cousins are not speaking to my aunt at all, they feel she is responsible for the suicide and have called her a murderer. They will not provide any assistance or have any contact with her. She lives several hours away from me. I think I found an apartment for her and we have appointments with several realtors to look at her house this weekend. She is going to move to my town.
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sp19690 May 2022
You do realize you are now involved and slowly will become more so once she moves closer to you. If you can't stop yourself from helping her now look to the future and how you will be helpiby her. It will start out with seemingly small requests and before you know it you will be her caretaker too.
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You don't mention how far away your aunt and your cousins live from you. Is your aunt able to travel on her own? Have a discussion with your cousins about possible care alternatives for their mother, but be firm that living with you is not a viable alternative. If your cousins are not able to take their mother into their own homes, you can offer to help them find an assisted living facility for their mother, or help with hiring aides to assist with her care in her home. It's best to find a facility near the children so that they can visit often and oversee her care. It sounds like you may help with your mother as well. Don't let yourself get burned out as a caregiver and full-time worker. Get connected with a local social worker to discuss options for your aunt (and mother's) care. Much depends on their financial situation. All the best to you.
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EmotionallyNumb May 2022
They aren't speaking to her at all. She has too much money to qualify for any help but not enough to pay for a caregiver on her own.
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I hope the sun has shone a little today.

I've actually heard a few times of folks taking a new medication & experiencing dire side effects causing harmful thoughts. Or receiving a new (terrible) diagnosis & taking drastic action. Not always planned, indeed very tragically can be a moment's impulsive reaction. The reasons will not be known. Very very sad.

All I can say is some leave quickly & yet others seem to linger & suffer.
💙

You have said your farewell. Now rest.

Your Aunt will change where she lives when she is ready - from the options available & affordable to her. Let her settle. Don't step in unless asked to be her POA. (Then step in enough to think that over thoroughly before deciding).
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Opportunity is a knockin’ …
Tell the cousins your mom can move in with their mom. Then let the sisters figure out if they can or can’t live together. Granted it means giving up control, but play the long game.
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EN, there is no correct answer to your questioning about which would have been best. There was no good answer.

I hope that the whole family can now grieve, and the whole horrible thing can be left in the past. Your uncle had many years to leave your aunt if he couldn’t stand living with her, your cousins had many years to intervene if they hated what was going on. And even if aunt was difficult, Uncle could have stood up to her more effectively. Let’s hope that every one forgives themselves, and each other.

For you, the deal now is to make sure that mother, aunt and cousins all know and accept that aunt is NOT moving in with you. The chances are that aunt can safely live by herself for some time. She may find it difficult to live WITH herself, and she may be grieving. That’s completely appropriate. She doesn’t need saving, certainly not by you. The future is the time when aunt’s living arrangements need to be considered, not now. Best wishes, and try to let it all pass as smoothly as possible. Margaret
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Be extra kind to yourself today.

Funerals have a way of peeling your shell off & exposing your soft side to the world. Take shelter until you feel strength return & your shell regrown.

(When younger, my sweet child wanted to grow up to be a turtle 🐢).
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EmotionallyNumb May 2022
I've been reading about suicide today, I don't think he did a lot of planning for this, I think it was an impulsive act. He didn't leave a note, I keep wondering what he must have thinking in his final moments. From what I know about the events of his final days he must have been feeling very depressed, like he wasn't worth very much and possibly trapped. I really didn't know him very well, when I was child he was gone working much of the time or hanging out in the garage. I've only seen him about twice in the last 10 or 15 years and that was at funerals for other family members.
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The funeral was today. Very short and probably about 30 people there, a few of my uncle's friends and some of my cousins friends. We told my mom about but not my aunt prior to the funeral. Neither of them went, I did end up going. I just got off the phone with my aunt and I told her that I had talked to her daughters and that they had a service for my uncle today. Now I'm questioning if I should have told her? I was thinking that she should know in case someone mentions it to her but she was understandably upset.
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PeggySue2020 May 2022
I understand you were trying to just inform aunt that their children had had a funeral. Mom knows you went, so too will aunt. They may ask you questions about the funeral as to who was there. And what was said.

I would be as general as possible as to what you said or heard other people say. I would just tell them when they ask that you were focused on paying your respects and you mind your own business.

Hopefully they will get the hint!
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EN, I am so sorry that your uncle took his own life. No one will ever know why someone chooses that action but, we all know that it shatters families.

I wouldn't be able to turn my back on her either. May The Lord give you strength, guidance and wisdom to help her.

I was thinking that companies like Hello Fresh can deliver food, if she is able to cook, boxed or Sam's Club can deliver nonperishable items. Most counties have transportation services available for seniors and disabled, so she qualifies twice.

There are lots of options in today's world, I pray you find what works for your aunt without sucking you into a terrible situation.
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EmotionallyNumb May 2022
Thank you.
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Your family is still in the middle of a serious family tragedy. I can understand the cousins preferring that their mother doesn’t come to the funeral, if they have any good reasons for thinking that their mother drove their father to suicide. A funeral is not a good time for a family fight, and it can be very very difficult to watch or listen to hypocritical behavior and speeches.

Your cousins may calm down when the funeral is over. You can hope so, no matter how difficult everything it now. The best thing to say at the funeral is that their mother is too upset to attend.

You can go to the funeral if you wish. There is no need to make a big announcement that ‘I’m going to your husband’s funeral and you aren’t invited’. Just go out for business or shopping reasons.

If your own mother wants to go, it’s probably good if she mostly wants to meet out-of-town relations. That’s why a lot of people go to funerals. It would not be a good idea if she wants to spread a lot of damaging information about the suicide and the fact that her sister is being blamed by their children.

I hope that you can all get through this extremely difficult time. Best wishes, Margaret
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EmotionallyNumb Apr 2022
I don't know that I'm up to going to the funeral. I feel like I pick up on people's emotions, like I feel what they are feeling, and I don't know that I want to expose myself to what everyone is going to be feeling at that funeral. It feels really heavy and dark and I don't want to get sucked into that.

My mom and aunt don't even know when the service is being held, that's how upset the kids are. Everything about this feels so wrong.
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I almost fell asleep at work today and someone asked me if I was sick. My sister and I have been planning a trip for a few months and last night she texted me that she wants to go to a completely different place. I'm going to go on the original vacation we planned, she can go wherever the hell she wants. I need the sun, sand and beach. I would love to be alone for a few days on vacation in a beautiful place where I don't have to think about anyone else's needs, wants, or feelings.
I was invited to my uncle's funeral service but I don't really want to go as I'll be staying my aunt's house. Can you imagine that conversation? 'I'm going to your husband's funeral but you can't come'. My sister originally wasn't going to go to the funeral, now I think she's looking at it as some sort of social event where she can hobnob with all the cousins. That irritates me, it's like another sign of how dysfunctional our family is. I'm not speaking to my other sister right now so I don't even know if she knows or is planning on coming.
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BarbBrooklyn Apr 2022
Why are you going to be staying at Aunt's house?
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JoAnn, I think op needs to treat the aunt as a person of need, but more like a family friend type. Having her stay a week raises the chances op will have to be her caretaker, which she doesn’t want to be.

Family dinners weekly should be her only check in.
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JoAnn29 Apr 2022
Really, you think a week is too long? I figured just to get her bearings. But I totally understand that even a week may end up more.
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You don't have to be invited to a funeral. You can walk in and sit down. Your invited to the luncheon.

This just seems to get worse and worse.

"they are just fundamentally very different people with different beliefs and my mom is unable to hold her tongue and will want to push her beliefs on my aunt, aunt is the same way."

Maybe if you laid it on the line to dear Aunt. "No talking politics or religion. Your old ladies now so neither of you is going to change the other." Tell Aunt she can come for no longer than a week or two. There will be no "extended visit" That you have Mom and a job so she is not to expect you to do for her. If she and Mom get started, the visit ends.

While Aunt is there, discuss with her about going to an AL. Selling her house to cover the cost. Maybe for now, research resources where she lives. Senior bussing to get her to appts and shopping. Make it plain to her you cannot be her "go to" person. With a job and Mom you just don't have time for her needs too. She has to take advantage of resources in her area. If she has any money maybe hire someone to help her a few hours a day.

I agree, with the new info you can't leave her high and dry but she needs to realize that you and Mom are not her solution.

My mantra: I am here to show people the way, not to be the way.
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You really can't make this $*!* up. I just found out cousins are having the funeral and not inviting their mom. I would have never imagined things could turn out like this.
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polarbear Apr 2022
EN- Even more reason for you to not jump in the middle of their S*!*.

Stay clear...
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Just be direct & don’t beat around bush. You already have enough on your plate. Next thing, they’ll be asking you to quit your job & stay home to take care of them both. Wake up from this potential nightmare & stop it in its tracks!!! I’m exhausted just thinking about it!
Hugs 🤗
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EmotionallyNumb: As you've already explained this to one of the cousins, leave it alone as it isn't YOUR responsibility.
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You already explained it to one of the cousins, so I would leave it alone for now. I doubt I would encourage a long visit with your mom going to aunt's house. Especially if you think aunt will want to start taking turns in each other's houses. If aunt directly asks, just tell her you wish you could but it just not possible. Suggest that she talk to her own children to see if they can spend more time with her or her at their houses - and - call the cousins again to let them know their mother may need more time with them and that she has asked to live with you. Tell them you don't want to hurt her with the no answer, but you just can't accommodate another person to care for.

If money is not an option for either lady, you might suggest they both go to assisted living together. My guess, however, is that if your mom already settled in with you - she's not going to be interested in leaving you and her familiar surroundings.
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EmotionallyNumb Apr 2022
Money would definitely be a consideration for both of them, my mom has very little and aunt won't be much better off. Cousins aren't talking to their mom because they blame her for the death.
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EmotionallyNumb, I don’t blame your instinct to help with a recent widow of a suicide that now her children are blaming her for.
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''Aunt needs to be safe, that's all I"m concerned about, once that is done, I'm outta there."

EmtionallyNumb - I am afraid it's not so clean cut like that. Once you get yourself involved, you're in for the long haul. You're going to be called upon to be responsible, to help out, to answer questions, to take the blame, etc.

I recommend you NOT to even dip a toe in that murky waters.

Aren't you busy enough with your professional job and your mother's needs?
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EmotionallyNumb Apr 2022
Yes, I am, I don't want to involved in this at all. To top it all off, I got in a car accident last night and now my car is totaled. I did one thing for myself yesterday and on the way home i get plowed into by a truck. Don't you wonder what people did hundreds of years in these situations? Maybe it didn't happen very often because most people didn't died in their 50s.
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