My 74yo widowed mother has lived with us (my DH and older kids) for about 5 years. She has been hoarding and collecting things in her room since she got here. She first wouldn't deal with the downsize in her life. I tried to be gentle in understanding, but the last 2 years have been BAD. She keeps most of her random shopping to her room but it's gone to FOOD now. Canned goods, pantry staples, baking items. Not just a snack, but bags of rice, 6 bags of chocolate chips, gallons of cooking oil. We have plenty of room to store but she shops (with a neighbor friend who takes her while we are at work when we don't need or ask them to). I mention I don't understand why she feels the need to keep FOOD in her bedroom. She snaps at me, "Why do you CARE what I do? It's MY BUSINESS." Which is a stock answer every time I ask a question.
My siblings don't care to hear or support me with any issues that arise.
I reminded them of younger families who appreciate stuff - including the holiday decorations I observed stored on the 2 upper shelves in the laundry room. This observation was over a 3 year period. Never touched/used w/in that time frame.
I looked at these beautifully packed boxes yearning to pass them along to a young family. And, there I rested my case.
My spouse, brother and I packed up the stuff and visited some other rooms in the house. My brother visited the garage and found stuff Dad stopped using several years earlier. We had been observing those items over time as well. When my brother was able to visit between holidays, he'd pack a few more boxes. When he visited, he always asked visiting friends/neighbors if they knew someone who would use the items. Dad knew some young men interested in the tools - so he gifted many of them. We reminded him tools are desperately needed by others.
We had to ease them into this new family tradition. We were only able to do it because 1) We took preventive strategies while they could still decide/control for themselves 2) reminded them it was hard to clear property and locate recipients from 2,000 miles away 3) Reminded Mom she repeatedly told me she did not want to be a burden to any of her kids.
When items were offered up and someone accepted, I would send a Christmas/Thank you card that year. These neighbors always promised they would help. They offered up, we instantly agreed. They could take certain items that our parents were saving for we kids (3 of us). As before, all were in their right minds. Siblings and I gave them out contact information so when the moment unfolded, they could "barter" with our parents offers. Gifting or purchasing were OK. (It all was gifted).
I've since encountered others who insisted they would not get rid of anything. Well, I showed a couple families how to get rid of some items. If it's on the top shelf & not touched in several years - take the items out of the box, return the box to the same shelf position and quietly close shelves/doors. Put the stuff in your car and take it away. Same for closet and kitchen.
If it's stuff in a desk, bring a bunch of strong large rubber bands. Do a quick visual inspection, band together, and return to the same area of the desk. Usually the older the stuff is at the bottom of the mess, so the newest loose stuff can just be set back upon the banned items. Don't say you're banding the papers together unless they can appreciate some organization. If the banned items are later needed or wanted, they are still within reach. When it's really time to clean up, you'll know what stacks to keep/toss.
A neighbor recently gave me 2 giant bottles of unopened, expired, olive oil. I didn't initially want it but realized olive oil would be an excellent treatment for a lot of the outdoor stands/tables in need of an annual oil treatment! (Olive oil is wood oil so works great on the outdoor furniture).
It helps to harness any cooperation as soon as possible. I've helped a couple neighbor's families begin what one claims the "Swedish housekeeping".
I've actually known/witnessed the homes and habits of 2 older ladies who hoarded to the point of hazardous conditions. Intervention is so needed at an early stage, but we often don't realize until it's so out of control and a big fight for all. Their families had a tuff time dealing with it, but I gave them a little respite with setting up their own systems to move things up and out.
My girlfriend drove 6 hours to help me get things going as DH had to have hospice. She was well aware that I needed things tidied up for them to move around. she distracted me as she and daughter cleared my kitchen out. They’d get a box filled then my daughter would just drive to donations. She told friend that if she didn’t go right then, I’d be picking through the box. She’s right; I would have.
My DH graduated out of hospice. He’s in Heaven now. I’m trying to figure out my new path and trying to figure out how to go through things that I won’t use or need. I am keeping his pjs. They are roomy and comfy and warm. Nope, it’s not a fashion statement, but it doesn’t matter. Same goes with the oversized fleece shirts..warm n cozy..
dress pants and shirts I’ll donate.. along with shoes.
im still trying to grasp all that just happened..
I promised myself i would try to put things back where they belong and try to remove something daily, anything.. trash or donate.
My mom and aunt both had to be placed in a facility. I out them in a board and care, which are very limited to space..so that was very difficult.
I’m trying to think in that direction as the “What if “ scenarios are bouncing around in my head..
purge now so daughter doesn’t have to.
A ton of Halloween decorations that have been collected over the years, and realizing that I’m not going to be decorating anything anymore. I’m definitely not having or hosting those parties anymore. Honestly, I’m I’m agingcare site..life changes, and the book,
The Giving Tree, is supposedly a kids book, and it made me cry every time i read it to my child..
So back to hoarding.. maybe I’m not ready to accept my next phase in life…
I am trying to let go of the days gone by, but it’s hard.
I wish my mom would even consider that she should let one thing go.
I would also suggest having a serious talk with this neighbor - without your loved one being present. Explain that "the shopping" is causing storage problems and it reinforces some difficult behaviors in your mom. See if the neighbor is willing to take your mom out for other types of outings - walk in the park, visit the zoo, go out for lunch... anything that will not involve buying things.
I don’t understood exactly how hoarding develops in a person or the correct way to respond to this condition.
Is it similar to OCD? Can meds help people modify this behavior?
It’s obviously a safety concern when hoarding is out of control. Safety has to be addressed even if the hoarder becomes upset.
Hoarding is a serious mental and physical problem, rarely fixed by “a little thing, a little change” so that “everybody feels safe and secure”.
My older sister was diagnosed with OCD and ADD several decades ago. Her odd behaviors began when she was under ten years old. She's highly intelligent, has a Masters Degree from a distinguished university. Had a professional career. Is now retired.
She's lived on her own, in the same apartment for over 40 years. She's a hoarder. She has never let anyone into her apartment, including me.
She's had literally decades of therapy, including with an esteemed psychologist who specializes in OCD.
The only thing that's changed is that these days she's so much less secretive about how she lives. The behaviors are not her fault and she stopped blaming herself. She's a loving, kind person who has had an unhappy life. I give her a lot of credit for making the very best possible out of the bad hand she was dealt with. She's fiercely independent and fears loss of control.
She rarely admits that anything's wrong to anyone, for fear that someone else will take control over her life.
As she ages, her disabilities get worse. It's getting much harder for her to deal with the rest of the world. I dread the day when someone else (probably me) will have to step in and take her independence away. At this point she won't consider moving, but she recognizes that a facility of some kind is in her future. It's doubtful she'll be capable of making this transition on her own,
For now, she's sort of okay. But she lives in an apartment with "cattle paths", and stuff piled up to the ceiling, many of her apartment appliances and plumbing fixtures aren't working. She won't let repair persons inside. She can't deal with her taxes, or making decisions about finances (in fact for years she never deposited her paychecks into her checking account and they were voided. She tried to have the checks reissued decades later but was unable to do that).
To the best of my knowledge, her landlord was able to access her apartment legally *once* for a fire inspection. The landlord allowed her to stay on as a tenant. She pays her rent on time, and none of the other tenants have complained about her (or realize how dangerous her living conditions are).
Currently, I believe that legally she would still be considered of sound mind, and able to make her own decisions. But I don't know how long this will be the case...
I knew that my mom would have to call all the shots until the day she died or she would tumble and crumble taking everyone out with her, easier to love them where they are then fight a battle that isn't yours.
Prayers sent that the crisis that will force change isn't life threatening or too terrible for anyone and that you have your beautiful sister sorta okay for a long time because, sorta okay is not bad at all, it's well, sorta okay, and it's nit a crisis!. Your sister is very blessed to have you, May The Lord bless both of you.
As I have gotten older I've analyzed this and come to terms with it. What I have yet to understand is why I'm very much Mamma's child. I have a collection of everything including equine equipment that I have yet to disperse. And the bigger the house, the more I keep. Granted, I was rather happy last fall when I discovered I have a 20 year old horse blanket that was perfectly stored and in usable condition ( the other bad thing is that I paid $25 for that blanket; same blanket today is $196 so you know instead of kicking myself for being a hoarder, I patted myself on the back for being frugal!).
I'm sure that dementia can play a heavy part in hoarding but for older people who grew up with Depression starved parents and grandparents, I think it might just be a bit of a mental legacy.
Personally, I have got to conquer the hoarding inheritance from Mom (after all, I didn't live through the Depression) and get rid of some of this stuff before my PoA has to write about me on this site!
I wish everyone good luck in dealing with this pesky and often unhealthy problem.
I remember being in my grandmother's apartment and opening the refrigerator door to get some milk. She swooped in on me and got all anxious about it. "What are you doing? What are you looking for?" as she closed the door. When I told her what I wanted, so she opened that door, got the milk, and closed it so fast my head spun. This was to save electricity.
My mother is 83 and has always been somewhat of a hoarder and I think it's getting a bit worse as she ages. She won't just take things to the thrift store for donation. They have to sit in a corner taking up space in the living room for a garage sale that never quite happens. She doesn't need the chump change these things will bring.
Anyway, thanks for helping me maybe understand it better. It probably came from my grandmother.
I am on a minimalism trajectory as I get older as I can't abide having too much stuff anymore. It drains my energy to look at things I'm not using or enjoying anymore. If I can't sell them online, I get rid of them faster by now.
Stephen King wrote in his novel, Holly, "Holder-onners are never able to understand let-goers. They are tribes that just can’t understand each other..."
I noticed him missing after several shopping visits, so asked another clerk did he retire, or transfer to another store?
The clerk told me this lovely man lived alone and turned out to be a hoarder, in a house he owned in a nearby town. Over a holiday weekend, he had slipped and fallen in one of his narrow "paths" of his packed home, hit his head and his trash fell on him. When he didn't report to work several days, the police did a wellness check. He had apparently been dead several days, buried under his hoard.
I cried for days over it.
Oh, and by the way what is the acronym DH?
A great acronym reference can be found at https://www.dictionary.com/browse/dh
He went from "I want to have nice things" to "I can't get rid of that - what if I need that." (about literally anything - sorry for the TMI - but every paper towel, tissue, receipt, piece of paper, - all of those single use items for the most part - he would NOT get rid of - he might need them.
Just prior to his passing last year - while we never got a formal diagnosis of what kind of dementia he had - most anyone who interacted with him felt strongly that he had Lewy Body Dementia based on all of his symptoms.
Due to the nature of their relationship - my SIL - who was living with him - would not even attempt to clean anything out. Everything "appeared" to be clean to the public eye. It was all of the hidden spots that will get you every time.
When he passed away and we got the opportunity to get in there and actually go through everything. (We KNEW it was going to be bad). We pulled countless grocery bags and garbage bags out of little nooks and crawlspaces that he could just throw things into. But because he also just threw IMPORTANT things in with them - we had to go through literally every single piece and parcel in these places to make sure WE didn't throw away the important stuff.
SIL had already removed all of the hidden food when he went into the SNF. But what remained totaled up to the following:
1. SIX contractor garbage bags of just trash. (the 95 gallon size). So almost 600 "gallons" (in volume) of just TRASH that he had stuffed in random places.
2. ELEVEN (I think that was the final count) 18 gallon totes of papers that need to be shredded. In other words stuff that is no longer needed but we weren't comfortable just throwing it away. So almost 200 gallons of more trash - just requiring shredding.
In case you are keeping count that is almost 800 gallons (mix of volume and weight) of just plain TRASH.
3. 50% of ONE 18 gallon tote of papers that we felt needed to be kept for tax purposes.
4. ONE box that he had apparently had someone move well before BIL and SIL moved in (potentially the cleaning ladies) that contained nothing but MIL's stuff, and documents that belong to DH and SIL that should have come to them (original birth certificates for one). And that was stuffed all the way back in the crawlspace upstairs. I have the bruises to prove it.
So in what amounted to 400 sq. feet of storage space - he had crammed what was mostly paper. But probably enough paper that if you laid it end to end would cross a football field and come back. Paper, crammed in grocery bags, crammed in kitchen trash bags piled in the upstairs bonus room crawl spaces and pushed further and further back.
He had also managed to sock away more candy than I could have possibly imagined someone who didn't go out much - in places that my SIL didn't typically look.
How much can they fit? Hoarders can get really creative. And VERY possessive. When we asked FIL why he needed a random receipt from a random restaurant that he had been to three years ago - he said "Why do you care? It's mine and I want it. I might need it some day!"
Spoiler alert....he never needed it.
I think most parents have that to a certain extent. This becomes especially maddening as they need help and won't listen to you.
I pointed out who were actual children, who were young adults & the rest middle aged. We had a laugh. But, on occasion I remind again. Especually when my DH is asked to climb ladders or go up on the roof - I point out his age. He is close to being a senior himself. I remind my folks. No I am not doing xyz, I am a middle aged woman.
Here is a cut and paste from my recent book "Dementia Care Companion":
Hoarding is most commonly seen in Alzheimer’s disease, frontotemporal dementia, and Lewy body dementia. Around 23 percent of dementia patients develop hoarding behavior, typically in the early and middle stages of their illness.
Patients hoard all kinds of stuff. They collect, organize, fold and package them, put them away in nooks and crannies, and then spend many busy hours searching in various drawers, cabinets, and wardrobes to rediscover and unpack the items, only to repackage and store them again.
Hoarding typically occurs in tandem with obsessive-compulsive behavior, overeating, and pilfering. What all these behaviors have in common is an underlying sense of anxiety, impairment in impulse control, and memory loss. The patient is trying to get a grip on a life that is increasingly out of their control, with a mind that is no longer able to hold on.
Hoarding is also seen in some older individuals who do not have dementia. Hoarding in older individuals may be a precursor to dementia and a warning sign.
How to Handle Hoarding
Although hoarding can be challenging for the caregiver, it does not help to get angry or scold the patient. Patience, creativity, and humor are better ways of handling all kinds of behavioral problems, and hoarding is no exception.
· Find out what drives the hoarding behavior and try to remove the cause. Is the patient worried that their stuff may get lost or stolen? When they spread, repackage, and store items, are they trying to reassure themselves that they can find the items again? Are they bored from inactivity and a lack of meaningful involvement with the daily household affairs?
· What do they collect and where do they store them? Are the collected items perishable? Are they valuable? By knowing the types of items that the patient likes to collect and where they stash them, you can better decide your next steps.
· Reduce the number of drawers and wardrobes that the patient uses. Label drawers to clearly show what’s inside. You can write “socks,” “underwear,” etc. on sticky notes, then attach the notes to drawers. Or, you can affix pictures to drawers, indicating their contents.
· Make life easy for the patient. Use a large plastic basket for the collected items so the patient can easily find them in one place and pack them again when finished.
· If a particular type of hoarding does not pose a hazard, let it be. But, if the hoarding creates risks, such as food that spoils or clutter that presents a fall hazard, find ways to remove the risk.
· Avoid removing or discarding hoarded items as this may add to the patient’s anxiety. Find other ways to remove any risks. For example, if hoarded food has spoiled, replace it with fresh food.
· The patient may agree to donate some of the items to charity. Take this opportunity to quickly remove those items from view. If the patient finds them again, they’ll likely hoard them again.
· When going shopping, plan ahead to avoid situations where the patient can re-purchase items they have just discarded. If they come across the same items, they will likely buy them again.
· Do not try to persuade the patient to give up hoarding. They cannot follow your reasoning. Even if you could convince them, they would forget it a few moments later.
· Try to channel their energy to more productive activities like helping to set the dinner table, making salad, and folding laundry.
Here are the relatives of mine and the age they started hoarding and the current status.
Relative 1 was 28 -- still alive, tested and no dementia, in 70s.
Relative 2 was 23 -- died in 50s, no dementia, house was demolished.
Relative 3 was 43 -- died in 70s, no dementia, fire department burned the house to the ground.
Relative 4 was 46 -- died in 80s, Parkinson's dementia for last 2 years of life, house was saved but hoard was burned.
Relative 5 was 16 -- still alive, no dementia
Relative 6 was 51 -- died in 80s, dementia for last 10 years of life
Yes, it is pure hoarding!
Examples:
Canned food from 1970 was delivered to me in 2004 to be used for cooking.
Brand new clothes from 1979 were found in 2004 in one dining room.
In 2005 a medicine bottle of pain pills from 1953 was offered to me during a visit, because wasting them was "abhorrent".
Need a bottle opener? I ended up with 158 of them when one relative died. The same relative left us 212 GALLON sized bottles of nuts, bolts, screws, pins and other misc. metal connectors.
Need a fabric scrap? I still have 6 large boxes to contend with from a different relative.
Another relative left me with 1028 VHS tapes to sort thru -- looking to salvage the two that I recorded of family. If it wasn't for those two tapes, the whole set would have been burned with the rest of the hoard, but I'd really like to save those two copies.
When one relative died, we hauled 16 truck loads (over two tons) to the land fill, disposed of 12 yards of garbage in the dumpster and took 8 truck loads to thrift stores -- from one 900 sq ft house!
Hoarding is not just an elderly dementia problem. It is a mental illness problem in people of all ages.
I confronted her. "I'm VERY uncomfortable with you storing food in your room. It's NOT sanitary and I wasn't raised with that being ok. You are going to move the food out of your room."
She got angry. "ITS MY ROOM. what do you care what's in MY ROOM!!!"
I said-"YOUR ROOM is in MY HOUSE THAT I PAY THE MORTGAGE ON. My rules are-NO FOOD IN YOUR ROOM. It looks like HOARDING to me and if that is the mental state you are in-then I will speak to your Dr about this. We can get a social worker involved and they can come see your situation for themselves."
Another stock answer flew out of her mouth-"Well maybe I should MOVE OUT then!" (She thinks this is a threat. This time I called her on it. She wouldnt know where to begin but I offered to help.)
I said-"Fine. You can look for and pay for an apartment where you can store ALL YOUR FOOD in your room...figure out your own rides to grocery and dr appointments and so on. But HERE IN MY HOUSE- it's MY RULES I don't have many but you won't store food in your room."
Then she tried to blame me for it. She keeps it in her room because "You keep moving the food around and I can't find any of it when I need it!"
I said-THAT isn't true. You go to the store with neighbor, spend and buy because you are bored. Then shove it into cabinets and all I did was ORGANIZE it. You need to STOP BUYING FOOD WE DONT NEED. I'll tell the neighbor to stop taking you out (the lady is meddlesome-but her only friend). I said-would you let HER see your room?? What would SHE THINK?
She just stared at me. I said..I'm DONE. THE FOOD HAS TO BE MOVED OR IM GOING TO ALERT YOUR DR THAT I NEED HELP.
She stormed off to her bedroom.
Today she acted like this disagreement never happened (as she does). I took her to the store, I asked her to buy me a shelving unit for storage of some of my small appliances. I told her-I will move my things here and you can have THAT CUPBOARD. Put your food THERE. if it doesn't FIT in the pantry or there...you don't bring it into the house.
Set up the shelf, moved my things and at last check she was sheepishly moving her food around.
She was a child. Throwing a tantrum. Now I'll have to check on and monitor this I'm sure. She didn't like me threatening to get her Dr and a social worker involved. She was actually pleasant today. I'm still annoyed-but it was a start.
My DH came and looked at me sideways "That's the first time I've heard you talk to her like that! Good for you!"
Thank you all. Small but big step for me.
Well done!!
This is where it gets tricky.
Yes it is your house, yes you can set rules. Be the adult. But your Mom is an adult too, is free to make her own decisions (whether wise, ok or terrible).
I am not in your shoes.. the closest I've got in volunteering in an aged care home with a resident with Hoading Disorder.
The lady would not bathe, collected every scrap of paper, every container with food brought by a visitor. Had WW2 concentration camp history, very sad.
Twice a week showers were made a requirement to live there. She had concented to this but of course she would say later.. tomorrow.. not now. So twice a week three staff would team up & make it happen. Two more staff to throw all food scraps while she was in the bathrrom. So I helped to grab as much paper, tissues, food containers etc in 20 minutes while the woman screamed at top level. Awful? Yes.
This was the deal.
She lived under their roof, the facility had Duty of Care to ensure she got bathed & her skin checked for bedsores. Also to keep a safe enviroment free of pests & vermin.
She had got physically aggressive in the past, preventing bathing & cleanups. This resulting in mental health intervention: trip to a psych ward & inpatient stay for medication review. This happened every now & then.
I've seen the Hoarders TV show.
I don't remember a single person who was cured with talk therapy alone. Was there any - anyone know? I did see some that seemed to get a little better at discarding. They had HUGE amount of help from many family memebers.
Basically, other adults had stepped in to provide Executive Fuctioning.
AwaysWrong, your original question was "How much can she fit in there?" I know you are not being literal..
How much is OK for YOU?
Good luck, it's a tough one to deal with or help with.
The one my MIL Is moving to doesn't ALLOW hoarding. It's a huge fire hazard and so the residents are kind of forced to keep their places tidy.
This would drive me insane in a week. And yes, Hoarding is a mental illness. A very sad one. I wish you luck with your mom.
You can still take care of her finances, etc., but a ALF would be a good 'not in my house' kind of situation.
1. Cultural reasons.
2. She doesn't and has never driven herself.
3. She doesnt understand finances and cannot fill out proper forms alone.
4. She was "on her own" after our father died for a decade and when we finally discovered the financial situation it was so bad we had to file bankruptcy for her.
5. Our dad did everything for her. Now it falls to me and one sibling who only helps sometimes.
She is basically like a functioning CHILD...and now aging. And I'm with a very supportive DH but it drives me crazy.
Im the "child" who always tries but she's never satisfied.
No blame, it's how she - the mix of cognitive ability, physical & mental health, life experience.
This is YOUR house that she's living in and yes you DO have a say about what can all be kept in it, including her.
So put your big girl panties on and have the much needed conversation about her moving out by March 1st, no ifs ands or buts.
As you know, this is a conversation that should have happened at least 4 years ago, and quite honestly you should never had let her move in in the first place.
Best wishes in getting her out sooner than later.
She needs to move out because she won't be willing/able to stop hoarding until she gets treatment. Maybe talk to a therapist who specializes in hoarding in order to get strategies and perspective on how to deal with her.
Everything that happens in YOUR home is YOUR business!
If she doesn't get that BASIC RESPECT FOR YOU, she's OUT.