The more I've been thinking, I'm starting to convince myself that my brother intentionally overdosed my grandma so let me lay out my theory
In mid October, my sister in law told my grandma that she thinks my job in NY will be ending soon and I'll be back to take her home. My mom and brother heard this. Around Halloween, she called me for 3 days straight to guilt me into paying off the home equity loan under the pretense that it's for my own benefit since when I'd get the house, it'd be due anyway so I could save interest. Each time, I said no and by the third day she seemed more panicky asking me like I had to say yes (bc the junkies she gave the home to didn't want to pay it) My theory is that they illegally used their invalid POA (she wasn't incompetent and the APS worker previously told them those papers mean nothing until she is) to get her in hospice bc they feared I was coming soon and once she went home their game would unravel. No one was informed that she was on hospice despite having 3 other grandsons (and their families) living within 5 miles. There was also no remarkable health decline nor did she ever express that she was ready to go. So why go on hospice right before the holidays and why is it a secret? The first week of November, my mom leaves for Florida and planned to stay until after New Years. Who leaves their mother in their home on hospice to go on a 2 month vacation? My grandma died overnight 11/28-29 but she needed restroom assistance and one of the main complaints they had was that she would wake them up a lot to pee but now she doesn't for 11 hours? I suspect that my brother may have overdosed her bc my physician uncle was coming to visit from St. Louis and he would have noticed her Meds were gone and find out about hospice. Also, for the last month she would always seem to be talking in code or like my brother was listening.
I feel like I should report this to the police bc they never came to the home after death, just hospice. I thought maybe they could get toxicology before she's buried. But I don't even know if it sounds too far fetched and they will ignore it. There's just too many strange things to dismiss and when linked, imo form a story that deserves to be looked into. On the "bright" side, the police know my brother is a druggie and violent so it's not like I'm accusing an upstanding citizen but I would hate to be wrong and inflict pain on him. However, my gut is pinging and if I'm going to present my suspicions, it's tomorrow or never. What would you do if you're only using the evidence/presumptions I stated. And please disregard telling me that she was 96 and in poor health. I totally agree and I know this day was nearing one way or another but I also think it's a good way to get away with something like this bc it's not unexpected.
I need advice
I hope she calls back soon cuz I've literally been awake 2 days. I wish I knew how to hack into systems and can get it myself. Lol
That used to be normal here too; but after Harold Shipman public opinion screeched to a halt and now all deaths, expected or not, are at least given a quick once-over by the coroner's office to make sure nobody has any concerns.
There must be a way for you to wave a small red flag, if only as a concerned member of the public? All you're saying is 'can you have a quick look at this, please' - you're not making specific accusations of foul play.
I'll be back later with the update. Kinda hoping I'm wrong
Freqflyer I totally understand if people have questions, especially if I wrote something in an unclear way or more details are needed or whatever. And of course, with so many posters and the fact that I'm infrequent, I can't expect anyone to remember my trail but to say hospice isn't done in secret and never believe old people who promise stuff isn't really adding anything to the conversation and it reads like I'm being called stupid. Like I really think you can just say I think I'm going put someone on hospice and viola or that the house issue is bc I'm a fool. It's not even close. It stinks it went down like that but as you can see, I'm still more concerned about my gma than I am about a house.
I know that hospice can tell if it's been hours but the bank transfers took place at 10:49-10:52a (2 different transactions zeroing both accounts that are legally mine) my uncle was notified 10:45a hospice came out at 3p but you're right that they didn't put 3p, they put 12:30p and that's how he was legally able to get the money bc as far as the bank is concerned, she was alive when it happened. I said we have proof that she was dead but the death certificate is the only thing that they care about. It's just a bunch of drama bc my mom guilted my uncle into paying bc she said my gma had no money but it's bc they moved it. So I'm trying to recover it but it might be a losing battle bc I can't do much other than show the proof to the estate attorney and hope that he encourages him to return it but at this point, it's not really something I'm concerned with. I'm only interested in finding out what happened to my gma. Tbh, I'm a little disappointed that my uncle is so preoccupied with getting the money back bc while it's not chump change, it's not a lot and it's definitely less worrisome than all of the other things we've been learning about since she died.
Even if your brother stalled hours before calling Hospice when your grandmother had passed, the doctor or nurse practitioner who comes to the house to officially pronounce a person has died, as you probably already know they can pretty much tell at what time death happened, there is no hiding that.
Hannah, many of us have been on the Aging Care forum for years, and we can only go by what the original writer tells us. Thus we ask a lot of questions. And only your answers can help guide us to better answers. Sorry if you felt that the writers were under the impression that you weren't familiar with Hospice, again we can only gauge from what you had written.
There might be others who are going through something similar as you so some of us will educate as we go along to help those who are reading get a better understanding.
Keep us up-to-date with your findings, we all would be curious to find out the outcome.
I'm not sure if he sped up her death bc my uncle was coming and he knew that he couldn't hide from him or if stopped Meds just caught up that day but either way, all of my siblings feel like something is fishy.
I'll keep you informed but not to sound rude, I don't want to hear that I'm in denial that she was dying or I'm stupid about hospice or I'm bitter bc she changed the will. I'm definitely hurt about the last statement but the truth is that a lot of bs has been going on over there for awhile and whenever we tried to address it, we would be told that we are going to kill gma with the drama so basically everyone stepped back so a lot of things were done. I just found out her cc bill was 55xx for one month. That's over 2x her monthly income.
So let's see if I'm losing my mind or I'm exposing the truth. Thanks for all the advice. Xo
I am glad they failed to get money out of you to pay of the loan which is my view of what happened.
Is your mother afraid of your brother? If so so she is the vulnerable elder depending on her age and given Gma's age and the fact you have retired she probably is older and dependent in someway on your brother.
Not telling anyone about the hospice admission does sometimes happen because they don't want to alarm the patient so they just tell them visiting nurses will be coming.
A hospice death usually means a the medical examiner does not need to e involved because the hospice nurse confirms the death and notifies the funeral home.
There is no time frame for calling hospice to notify a death and it is often delayed to allow out of twon relatives to arrive and see the patient at home rather than at the funeral home. The time of death is also often delayed just for the purpose it was in this case to allow funds to be withdrawn before the bank freezes the accounts and no one can touch the money. In this case it possibly was for illegal reasons as you say brother is a druggy.
Did brother kill Gma no way of knowing without being there. Hospice typically does not provide huge amounts of medications and when someone dies they account for everything so if they had left for example a new bottle of 20 mls of liquid morpine the day before they would be suspicious if the bottle was empty.
By all means go ahead and get the toxicology done but don't be surprised if it comes back within normal limits.. If he did kill her he most likely did it by holding a pillow over her face or a plastic bag. She was old frail and dying, It would be very easy to do. Maybe it was close to her time and she went naturally but he took advantage and pocketed the money.
My major concern at this point is the welfare of your mother. She is probably going to be destitute. Let us know what happens.
I hope that you guys are wrong and that this was a natural event but it is really bizarre that your mom would leave her dying mom with a drug addict to care for her, especially at this time. The whole story is disturbing. I think it is much better to address any doubts now than wonder for the rest of your life whether something unnatural might have happened. And I am glad you are in another state from them. So sorry -- this situation must be draining.
2. Never believe an old person who says they are giving you the house. Old people tell you the lies you want to hear. Grandma was attempting to buy your affection. She succeeded.
1- I posted on another thread that I was always supposed to inherit the house but after an APS visit the fallout led to her giving it to the brother who the allegations were against and who I'm suspicious of. This was done in secret and I was never led to believe anything had changed and continued to contribute money towards things for the home and paid property taxes
2-,she had a heloc and I always understood that if she was unable to pay off before death that I would have to inherit the debt since it was attached to the house. That's why I was getting annoyed at her badgering me for 3 days straight bc my feeling was that I'd cross the bridge when it came. The interest rate is low enough that letting it play out wasn't going to cost me much more than paying it now. But she was obviously trying to get it cleared bc they were pressuring her so they wouldn't have to be stuck
3- you don't put people on hospice in secret and not tell anyone. That is bizarre My grandma has 3 other kids, numerous grandkids, etc who she was close to and none of them had a contentious relationship with my mom. So there's no reason to be secretive.
4- my gma had chf and took numerous pills. No one can think she'd have a lot of time once all those Meds are stopped. My mom wasn't going on a week vacation, she was leaving for months.
5- all the bank accounts were emptied after he notified family of death but he waited hours to call hospice so the death time was pushed back to protect the electronic transfers.
Anyway, the detective is looking into right now bc the APS worker just called me bc he contacted her about her knowledge and verified that my gma was competent. She said that he's now going to contact hospice to find out when she was placed and who signed her up. If she signed then it's over but if my mom signed by using the POA after she was informed that she had no reason or right to exercise that then it's going to go to the next stage.
I understand that I have no evidence but that's why the detective is researching bc the key to determining whether I'm just putting a bunch of strange things into a story is him finding out what happened with the hospice. The APS worker said that I'm doing the right thing bc my gma was vulnerable and her denying the truth let them use her. She also said that elderly people are much more susceptible to things like this bc their deaths aren't a surprise and things aren't always looked at the right way. So yeah, between her and the detective's response, I'm definitely doing the right thing by voicing my suspicions. I knew it.
That happened with my Dad, he was sent to the hospital found to have had aspiration pneumonia, he was placed on Hospice the very same day and was on Hospice only a week. This was all so sudden, he was sitting in his recliner, joking with the Assisted Living staff, and the next morning he had passed.
As for your Mom, Hannah, maybe she was under the impression that her Mom still had plenty of time, so she went on his vacation. She might not have understood how grave this situation was or was in denial.
Ask Hospice how much morphine do they leave at a patients home for a relative to give to the patient? Normally morphine is 5 to 15 mg per dosage. It would take 200mg or more to force someone to pass.
Go with your gut feeling on this case. It could be a lot of coincidentals or something quite wrong. Do what you need to do to get closer.
Is your brother capable of murder?
If you think he is, I'd contact the DAs office. One side benefit, IF your brother gets wind of the fact that the DA os going to take the body back to morgue for a post mortem toxicology screen, he'll have her buried so fast it'll make your head spin
My advice? If you want to stay sane? You come from a family of grifters. Turn your back and walk away. BE the snobby relative they all talk about. Don't look back and cut your losses.