We cared for my MIL for two years in our home as well as helping her and my FIL for the previous 10 years. That included medical appointments, hair appointments, funerals, grocery shopping, yard work, etc. My SIL did what she could which was about 20 % of their needs. My BIL did practically nothing.
My MIL helped buy the house she lived in with us. She paid for the materials to finish the basement (her apartment) and my husband gave his labor for free. This is his career but he didn't collect a paycheck for two months while he was finishing the basement for her. In the end, it cost her less to live with us than to live independently or in AL.
They have both passed away and my husband was the executor for them. While the financial side of their estate was simple, it took many, many hours to deal with the possessions. Again, the siblings did almost nothing compared to the hours that my husband and (mainly) I put in to dealing with the stuff.
My husband was/is hesitant to take his executor's fee. He had a meeting with his siblings and they didn't know that he is legally entitled to a percentage of the estate. He fought for some of the fee (about 60% of what he legally could collect).
The siblings are not happy...SIL thinks "This isn't the way family treats family." As the one who provided most of their care, who couldn't work full time and contribute to my retirement and who spent way more than the executor's fee putting gas in the car to haul them around, I think it is more than fair for us to receive that money.
My MIL would have had almost nothing left if she had been in AL for the two years that she lived with us. Our time/effort/money are what is allowing my husband's siblings to inherit at all.
What are your thoughts on us taking a percentage of the executor's fee?
Sibling is executor of mom's trust. Trust has instructions on how it is to be administered and distributed during mom's life and after. Of course, those that know me, this has been an off the board dysfunctional relationship since the care issues began eight years ago.
I do not have a problem with executor being paid the full amount provided by law if the instructions were followed or even if information was provided when requested. But, it wasn't. How should that payment be reduced? Something would be appropriate.
The trust also has requirements to remain eligible. I don't know if those rules were followed either. Mom passed two years ago tomorrow, and estate still not settled. I have asked for information repeatedly. Any of what was requested should have been readily available had the job been done as instructed and should have been.
So, in this case no, the full amount is not warranted. In your case, it may be if there were instructions and if they were followed.
Remember too, that this is husband's decision and responsibility. I would stay out of it and support him in his decision.
I understand your opinion that this is my husband's decision and responsibility - but so was taking care of his mom and most of that was on me.
He works full time and I work part time so I was the one who provided most of her care - almost weekly doctor appts, grocery shopping, making meals, hair appts, cleaning the carpet when she took a laxative and couldn't get to the bathroom quickly enough.
The bottom line is that I look at the executor's fee as recognition for my efforts in caring for his parents. The amount of the fee isn't the point as much as it is validation of my/our contribution.
As for the work your husband gave up preparing your MIL apartment - you have ultimately benefited from that by the increased value of your property. Your MIL paid for the materials and part of the house itself, which I assume is now yours completely? Might that not have been considered payment for all the care you provided and a loving son and DIL?
Part of the confusion is that my husband's siblings thought that he had been paid for his labor in finishing the basement.
Also, we paid for a driveway to be poured to her apartment door which was more than the executor's fee. She couldn't get in/out of the apartment without the driveway.
My parents set up a trust, and the successor trustee fee is less (at least in my state) than for an estate. My two brothers are the successor trustees, and I would definitely argue that the brother who is doing all the work should get that fee (the other one is only acting as backup, although they are considered co-successor trustees in the trust). He isn't going to take it, though, he says.
When my duties towards my mother (not live in; average 6 hours/week but always on-call) became onerous because of her attitude towards me and then she was hospitalized for 17 days/rehab/nursing home, etc. and I was putting in a lot more than 6 hrs/week, I pretty much told my brothers I expected payment from that point on. When the main successor trustee brother said he had no problem giving me back-pay for the past few years, too, I jumped on it. Neither of the other two brothers said it wasn't right, although one of their wives said SHE would never take payment for taking care of HER mother. My brother quickly told her that HER mother was nothing like HIS mother. Two of my brothers and I (the third one wasn't asked, but he had the least to do with my mother than anyone else) even independently came up with the same hourly rate -- $20/hour. The back-pay was gifted to me in one lump sum. No taxes taken out. And I was paid $20/hour from that point on, including travel time to and from the NH.
Now my mother got very angry towards me when the subject of payment came up the one time I asked her. "You don't pay family!" was her reply. Well, no you don't, but then you also don't expect one family member to do all the work! (I was the only local sibling.)
She was convinced from that point on that I was trying to cheat her -- always saying how the trust was to be split equally four ways. Well, yes it will be; she just didn't know that I was getting compensation before the trust would be distributed at her death.
I am all for caregivers to get compensated WHILE they are doing the work; waiting until the estate or trust is settled can get very dicey.
Part of the confusion is that the siblings didn't know that my husband didn't get paid for his labor and that we paid for the driveway.
I am glad you are getting so much support from your brothers. I agree with you that caregivers should be paid at the time of the care. Because caregiving starts small, it's easy to dismiss that time at first. As it escalates, it becomes more important to be compensated for that time. The hard part is knowing where that tipping point is.
As isthisrealyreal wrote, "I always wonder why people think it is okay for family to provide free services when they would never consider having a stranger do the same thing for free."
If so - yes, he should take a percentage of the fee and that percentage should be 100. Those were your MIL's instructions. No other factors are relevant. Nothing else can be correct.
The biggest issue is that his siblings didn't know that he could get paid. The financial side was very easy to deal with because of previous estate planning and a will (which we paid for).
To be fair to my SIL, she and her husband are 15 years older than us and have had a lot of health issues themselves. They also had his mom to care for and live two hours away.
While my husband is worried about the impact the fee might have on his relationship with his sister, neither of us care much if there is damage to the relationship with his brother.
As the Personal Representative (Executor) , I had to:
1. Get a copy of the will and file it with the County Probate Court.
2. Notify banks, credit card companies, and government agencies (Social Security Administration was notified by the mortuary) of the decedent’s death. I sent out 10 Certified Death Certificates.
3. Decide what kind of probate is necessary.
4. Represent the estate in Probate Court.
5. Set up a separate bank account for incoming funds (I had to sell the corn and soybeans after harvest) and pay any on-going bills such as utilities, farm related bills, etc. I had to contact all of the insurance companies and see if they needed to refund any premiums. At least three insurance companies refunded premiums. I had to pay all court costs and pay for required notifications in the local newspaper from the Estate Checking Account.
6. File an inventory of the estate's assets with the County Court that included the assessed value of the house and the farm, all bank accounts, CDs, mutual funds, life insurance, etc.
7. Maintain the property (the house and all household goods) until it can be distributed or sold
8. Pay the estate's debts and taxes. I filed the 2018
income tax return and will have to file an income tax return for 2019 since the corn and soybeans from the farm were not sold until 2019.
9. Distribute assets according to Mom's Will. I am in the process of doing this currently.
10. Dispose of other property to the rightful heirs.
Our family attorney told me that I deserved a Fee as Personal Representative and he wrote a check which I took without hesitation. I earned that Personal Representative Fee. My brother has no problem with me receiving a fee for being the Personal Representative for Mom's Will/Estate.
My MIL's estate was much simpler financially but very time consuming to deal with her possessions. It took me four trips to her storage unit to get her holiday decorations, extra dishes, etc. My minivan was packed full each trip!!
It took us hours to deal with the 75 photo albums and a lifetime's collection of jewelry. The woman was a collector!!
These are the hours and hours that I feel we put in to earn the executor's fee.
I come at this from from a different perspective. I was the executor dealing with my brothers and our mothers estate.
In Oregon the executor fee is a percentage of the estate. The percentage gets smaller as the estates get bigger. I suppose it’s to keep the fee amount reasonable.
My situation was much as you've described - although my mother was always in a facility. We started with mom and dad in a large IL apartment and after he passed mom moved to a smaller IL then AL and finally a nursing home. I looked after them/her for over six years. It was very, very difficult. My mother was a hard person to deal with in her best years. As she aged and later with dementia- she was a nightmare. A super high-maintenance nightmare.
I did 96% of the work - including DPOA. The driving, the appointments, meetings, errands, shopping etc. One brother did nothing except helped with moving - cause he wanted to get his hands on stuff. The other brother helped by visiting. Visiting once a month for the first five years and then once a week when mom was in a nursing home.
Okay. So finally - I was the executor for both my parents. My fathers left everything to my mother and their was no probate since her name was on almost everything. I did have to do all the leg work and paperwork getting things into her name only, taxes etc.
My mothers estate was the full blown probate thing - that I had an attorney help with. It lasted eight months although two years after - a tax issue came up that took another nine months to correct.
I chose to take no fee or payment. And in Oregon- the executor fee is automatically awarded by the probate judge unless you file a motion to not receive the fee. Which I did. Why? One simple reason. To keep the peace between my brothers and me. One brother would have been okay with it - the other would have absolutely come unglued. And, even though I knew that after mom was gone and I handed them their inheritance checks - there would be little to no future contact - and there hasn’t been, I still chose to go this way.
Of note - I could have been paid for years for my DPOA work as well. Mom had it written into the document. But again, I chose not to take it - for the same reason.
To keep the peace. It just wouldn’t have been worth it.
You should find out the hourly rate for an executor in your state (like if an attorney was the executor) and then write out an itemized bill for every hour he’s spent, form he’s filled out and present it to his siblings. Maybe they will change their attitude after that? I would also calculate what an assisted living for 2 years would have cost her and show them how much you saved by taking her in. Where I live, AL for years costs a minimum of $120,000! $5k a month minimum.
It is a lot of work to be an executor and that is why the law allows a fee. If it was simple it would not get compensated.
I always wonder why people think it is okay for family to provide free services when they would never consider having a stranger do the same thing for free.
I truly hope this will not create a break in the family.
SIL is not even entitled to inherit a penny, not her mom, not her inheritance. Just like it wasn't your mom and you should have never had to provide free caregiving, you should have had a contract and got paid every week or so.
Just to clarify, SIL is my husband's sister so she is blood related and entitled to inherit.
I also hope that this won't create a break between my husband and his sister. But, to be honest, not taking the money would create a rift between my husband and me. I would have felt like he didn't respect my contribution to his parents.
My mom is relatively healthy now but will be needing more and more help as she ages. Because I am the closest, most of her care will fall to me. I will definitely be sure to protect myself more financially when her care costs me like my in-laws care did. Hearing people's stories on here about the havoc that caregiving has caused them helps me understand that it's OK to look out for my needs also.