Entitled aging parent. Any advice?

More apologies last stated. Medicare starts at age 65, so your mother got Medicare Part B after losing her job. Contact the County in her area for assistance instead of leaving her go homeless.

My sincerest Apologies!
I do not see anything about your mother's medical conditions to not work, but I now see why she wants a break after losing her last job to Covid. Age 69 does need a break. If she had worked for at least 10 years, she can get full SSA benefits, but not yet maximum benefits, because she is one year short of age 70. If did not work 10 years, apply for SSI benefits. Medicare is still a 2-year wait.

Look, the crazy, XXXX federal government looks at age 69 as very, very young. They are just very stingy because they do not want to pay!! However, many people are just too unhealthy even to wait until age 62, let alone full benefits at ages 66 to 67, or to maximum age 70 (FRA) Social Security benefits age. Timing starts at the earliest age for minimum benefits at age 62 to the maximum benefits at age 70. However, please decide carefully before collecting benefits, because once claimed, the chosen monthly benefits, the larger or lessor, are permanent for life.

Unfortunately today, it is very difficult to find decent work because employers are no longer friendly and have just one interest: to make profits for their businesses and blame the economy to cut their help. If anyone is lucky to find work, the stress can make an employee quit, anyhow!

Back before 1983, I thought I was going to retire at age 65, but the federal government revised their budget to make us all work longer, up to age 67, according to the year of birth. I had worked over 40 years but never, ever earned a pension since job changes happened about every 8 to 10 years. I lost a good job over ten years ago in 2012 after 25 years of service, short of 30 for better money, then two years ago in 2020 after nearly 5 years of service from Covid, and I had to pay Medicare Part B for 14 months before I started FRA Social Security instead of using my last employer's coverage until planned FRA started, reducing the savings I wanted for some of my retirement. I had to work another 14 months to age 66- and two-months for my FRA last year! I could have worked a little longer but decided to not because of some health conditions that required time off for several appointments that would have taken way too much of my time away from work.

I am very happy to be home and now better off, even with less income than I had planned from jobs that went away because of the economy and pandemic. Unfortunately, I then had to pay more for dental work in 2021 with Kaiser Medicare Advantage Senior Plus instead of getting better coverage with my former permanent employer of 2020.

Fholmes: Do not have her move in with you.

"She wants to make absolutely no concessions in her lifestyle. We considered having her move in with us, but I don’t think that would be good for any of us."

OH NO. DON'T DO THIS.

"The people pleaser in me just wants to give in".

NO NO DON'T DO THIS EITHER. Hang in there and hold your ground !

1. Put yourself/family first.
2. Sell the house.
3. She'll b - - t c h and complain. Expect it and have self-affirmations ready in your head "I am a good person... I've done all I can... she can work if she wants to."

4. Do not doubt yourself.

5. Come here for our pep talks.

6. She is making her own decisions and will need to live with them. She appears to need someone (that would be YOU) to vent her anger towards . . . walk away.

7. Yes, good for your sisters supporting you to be more independent and separate from your mom. It is time to cut that umbilical cord. I know it is not easy to make these decisions. However, your mother sounds narcissistic and needs to learn that she is responsible for herself, not you.

8. Thank you for reaching out to us. We are here for you.

Gena / Touch Matters

Hi.
You have identified the " co- dependent, enabling" relationship.
What makes you think that this will end simply and with no grief?

Your mother is grieving the change. All senior citizens grieve when they have to leave their home for health, financial or other reasons associated with aging. Grief= shock, anger, denial, bargaining over and over and over ,even when one thinks acceptance has been reached. This is a " death".

You have reached your decision. Your mother has not. You are both on different paths.

At minimum,respect her dignity and grief. Seek and acquire support for her and yourself so that this
" divorce " and " death" of a long term relationship arrangement can end as congenial and appropriate as possible.

Her and or your local faith clergy should be contacted to support you both. Arrange for an appropriate Senior Services professional or other social services are invited to assist her with assessing her financial and emotional needs for safe housing and a safe transition. Subsidized senior housing may be one option .

Move forward as you have decided is appropriate for you but with kindness and understanding that her grief , denial, resistance, and fear of the unknown are natural .

Seek emotional and spiritual support for yourself also.

Without rushing,the sooner the transition evolves, the better so that healing and restoration and new beginnings can begin for you both.

Southibella, I am going to point out to you that the world has changed dramatically since you were a teenager. Most women of my generation (I'm about to be 70) expected to work and support themselves and planned for their own retirements.

We reared our children with the expectation that we would not need to be supported in our old age. My parents (born in 1923) also supported their elderly parents. There was resentment and lack of resources for the NEXT generation, not a good thing.

I understand the OP's position; yes, her parent must be scared, but needs to adjust her expectations.

I can give you advice based on what I saw my Aunt do for my grandmother when I was a teenager. When my grandmother - who had never worked outside the home, never drove a car - needed to move, my mother's sister and husband bought the house next door to them and made the payments. They moved my grandmother into it with my uncle who had Muscular Dystrophy and was not able to work any longer. My Aunt and Uncle did not charge any rent or hold anything over their heads. They never carried on about it - they just quietly provided my grandmother and uncle a safe place to live.

That showed me what LOVE is. When we give to others without expecting anything in return, that is LOVE.

I could never turn my mother out because I judged her to be capable and/or a burden. My belief is that if I refuse to help my family, then what good am I?

Peace.

what original arrangement was made when you moved mom/step dad in? Did they have no choice financially? How long were they there? When did he pass? How long has she been alone?

How far is she(the house) from you ? How far away are YOU moving?

do you know details of her finances?

without details my gut reaction is no, don’t expect her to back to work at 69. How close is she to the people she gives care?

uprooting her, again, from her “home” and friends/community is understandably upsetting.

YOU need to make plans, alternatives -more than one- and discuss.

Telling her hey, you’re out there n a year seems unkind. You painted yourself in a helper corner, tat sucks. But mom doesn’t get 100% of the blame her

Help her. Boundaries are fine, great actually. But you need to help at least a little.

Hello,
I really feel that I need to weigh in on this predicament because it hits so close to home for me. I am a 68 year old single never married woman who has had two narcissistic parents. So I definitely understand your “please everyone” mentality because that’s what I’ve been doing for the past seven years. My mother has passed and I just learned that my dad has six months to live. He is 97 and thankfully is just an old man now, not a manipulative bone in his tired body and I love him dearly.

I am retired. I retired at 65 early because had I not the workplace would’ve driven me to a nervous breakdown. I kind of have to take issue about retirement goals not being met by your father or your mother, in that we were not fortunate enough to have 401(k)s until we were in our 40s and even then a lot of companies did not supply it. You are in a much better position regarding finances and retirement than your parents ever had the opportunity to have. Also, Social Security as a general rule will pay 1/3 of what you’used to make and for anyone regardless of their income level that is a huge adjustment, it took me an entire year to re-do my budget and figure out a sustainable way to live off of such a low income even with my savings.. I am fortunate that I have my own home, and I am very healthy, but my mortgage is not paid off. Anyway, I feel you are being overly critical of your mom because she truly does not have any money to pay for a house. That’s outrageous and the notion that she can go back to work, and earn a high paying living is outrageous as well. That will not happen , no one is going to hire her and certainly not at a really high rate of pay if she is lucky to land something.

All that said, I know that you are a good daughter and you have done more than your share of what your sisters have done and that needs to be addressed and good luck on that because generally, it’s just one child does all the work so I commend you for all the care you have given your mother, and I understand you have a family and a life and other things to do with your time than care for your narcissistic mother, who is ugly to you. I get it. However, maybe she can rent an apartment or move in with a friend of hers and they can share the rent or she can look online and try to see if she can rent out a room in somebody’s home that they need extra income something along those lines otherwise I’m afraid she’s going to be homeless, literally homeless. Especially in our times right now when everything is so high all the groceries have gone up and utility bills have gone up. My HOA fees have skyrocketed and I feel that I am in a pretty secure spot but in reality who knows I mean it’s really frightening when you are alone and you are retired and you have a limited income. Please place yourself in that scenario and then I think you would understand where your mom is coming from . I would urge you to help her find an alternative living arrangement that will work within her budget of Social Security, and it will not be what she is used to living. I don’t know what part of the country you live in and hopefully it is not a high dollar state , but I would urge you to help her find somewhere to live before you move. I can see why she’s totally paralyzed by the situation because it is overwhelming and I’m not even a narcissist.

I live in New Jersey and there are government affordable housing for people of different income brackets through HUD. You should check your state’s website to see if they have this program that your mother could benefit from. Your post indicates that your mother has limited income and along with the affordable housing she could qualify for other social service help like paying for gas and electric, etc. that’s available through your state.

Hope you find a peaceful solution ASAP that will be satisfactory for both you and your mother.

This is your mother you are doing this too! It's bad enough when a stranger tries to throw you out of your home after a job loss. It doesn't sound like you are hurting for money. Give your mom a break!!! It sounds like she IS working providing care for a neighbor.

Your mother is NOT being unreasonable. She should get more money when she turns 70 from Soc. Sec. If it is your intention to raise her rent, then wait a little while. It is CRUEL to do this to your mom right now. You wait until she is down to threaten her with becoming homeless.

Put yourself in her place. What if your husband died and you lost your job. I bet your mom would do everything she could to help.

To me this sounds like a woman who is used to others taking care of her. Neither her husband or she had a plan for their golden years except "live off the kids". While I understand this is overwhelming for her, I don't have a lot of sympathy for her. I assume the OP NEEDS to sell the house in order to move. She gave her mom a years' notice. In a compromise I would suggest help looking for senior apartments for her and maybe subsidize her rent for several months with the clear understanding that there is an end date to this financial help. The most important thing is to get her untangled from your own finances.

So, if Mom IS healthy and able bodied, you potentially have 20 years or longer for her to remain on this earth.

Is this a home she can age in place? Is everything on one level? Can it be navigated with a walker of wheelchair?

I’m not trying to imply that you’re made of money, but you may be better off finding/buying mom a different place to live. 55+ condos are popular in my area. No yardwork, no stairs, frequently an elevator and they are cheaper than a house.

But, there’s often no pets or smoking allowed. Not sure if that’s an issue.

I have the same thing in my area. The going rate for non medical dementia companions, errand runners is $25+ an hour, cash. Truly, I’d love to stumble into a gig like that.

I’m not sure what the housing market is like in your area. If your Mom can maintain the house and yard physically, it might be in your best interest to charge her just enough to cover mortgage, property taxes, insurance and just $100-200 more to cover maintenance. I know, I know, it is below market value, but it might give her 18-24 months to decide her next move.

Sigh…..and then it might just enable her to stay where she is and deny that she is a drain on you. Be prepared for the “I raised you for 18 years and took care of all your wants and needs - now you can do the same for me” discussion.

Of course, your mother is not doing anything – – I bet she's frozen with fear. She is facing homelessness. All these recommendations on this forum to get section 8 housing and section 202 housing and various other resources are wonderful opportunities, but they usually take years to happen. The waiting list for these opportunities are years long. it's also very difficult to get into Medicaid senior housing. Your mother has to spend down her assets in a way that Medicaid accepts.. She can't just give money to people. Medicaid looks back five years.

You've been very generous in providing your mother and stepfather with a home to live in at below market rents. But as you stated, your mother is stretched financially to live at below market rent. What were your plans and intentions when you moved your stepfather and mother in? What was your mother's understanding when they moved in? Did you provide any kind of termination agreement or expectations? Your mother may have thought that she had the house for the rest of her life.

While your mother may seem healthy at 69, I'm younger than your mother and I'm seeing friends drop. I am amazed at how many people from my high school class have died and I am amazed at how many of my college buddies have serious or terminal illnesses. Once the body hits the 60s, it declines rapidly. There is a reason why age 65 is considered the retirement age. People are now starting to work until 70 because medical advances have given us opportunity, but not many people are working after 70 unless they have to. Furthermore, finding a job at age 69, is very, very difficult. I know this for a fact. I lost my career as a corporate director because I was forced to take care of my parents and sister with autism. I got back out into the working world in my late 50s and I have not been able to find a job that gives me even a quarter of the responsibility or the quarter of the pay.

Your mother has a very tough road ahead of her and a very scary one. She is fortunate to have a daughter who has looked out for her and given her the opportunity to live in a decent place at a decent rent. She still needs her daughter and her other daughters as she transitions into a new life. This is the time to hold her hand and help her move forward. Help her find a new home and help her find a job. She is clearly overwhelmed by the prospect in front of her, It is obvious you love your mother and you are torn between your own family's needs and your mother's needs. Giving her a deadline is not going to work. Give her the help she needs, and both of you will find much greater peace.

There must be some Aging Agency near you. Why not speak to them and have them assess your Mom, they can inform you of housing choices She sounds scared of the changes you are planning. Not unusual, some real alternatives might reassure her. She has time to visit them and decide. You have made the decision best for you in your mind. It is hard to determine how capable she actually is, and I would not assume she can find an actual job that will support herself at this time. Most of the jobs someone like her can pick up in our area aren't sufficient to be self-supporting. Good for extra money and activity mainly. If you have made your decision, you need to move on to helping her find another arrangement. Don't expect her to be appreciative though, not now, maybe not forever.

She may need to look into low cost housing options she can afford at a cost similar to what she now pays you. A low cost senior apt if she qualifies or renting a room in someone's home or a roommate for a larger space. She may not like those options--neither would I. But if she has only a fixed amount of money available, she will have to decide where to use it.

Retirement age , generally 65 , I believe 70 is full SS benefits. I am 66 and retired. Could I get a job ? Sure.. but there is no way I would make enough money to make a go of it .. I’m married.. what kind of job is your mom qualified for? Who would hire her other than McDonald’s? Truthfully, I don’t think it’s realistic that she should get a job at her age…

Does your mom have 401 money? What income does she have ? My mom didn’t have a lot of income . Certainly not enough to pay rent and live on her own. When I attempted moving her near me, I found low income housing for seniors thru the county. Ultimately she refused to move. Back to your moms savings … I would research a place for her, have her use her retirement monies, if she has some, or help her find low income housing. Your mom may be at a loss of what to do.

all of this , not knowing her future, or what to do is so stressful, Im sure … which equals the rebellion and anger your getting.

I wish you luck with trying to help her make changes. My mom was very stubborn and did what was comfortable for her, not what she needed to do.

Can she rent a room out in the house to generate more rent to pay you? She is 69 she should be retired. That is awesome she works for neighbors and they pay cash. That work will keep her skills sharp. But pointing her to go get a job out there seems like a lot. If you can’t afford to keep the house .. it is what it is . Your other siblings should help u get her moved to senior housing to fit her budget.

There are aspects of your relationship with your mother that resonates with me. i’m curious, by any chance are you the eldest daughter? if so, you may be experiencing symptoms often described as Eldest Daughter syndrome (it goes by many names).

Regarding the house situation. These past 3yrs have been very difficult on everyone, and even more so the older one is. Returning to work at her age needs to be something she decides. Sounds like she is discovering that she really enjoys helping others, even though she gets some cash compensation. Finding purpose after retiring, in her case forced retirement, can be a difficult transition. Finding alternate living accommodations can be extremely challenging, in my region of the world, it’s almost impossible for a single senior to find affordable unit. Buildings that specialize in senior rentals have 6+yr waiting list. I would implore you to assist your mother with finding alternate housing, and not just giving her 1yr notice.

Your mom has lost a husband, her job and is now being told that she has to find somewhere else to live and navigate a move...that is a lot for anyone, let alone a 69 yr old. She also may be a little upset that you are moving away. Kudos to you for not charging mom "full market value" on the rent of your second home. Geez.

Can you find a little grace in your heart to understand why all of this might be overwhelming for her? Do you have to sell the home she resides in? If so, can you help your mom find a senior apartment or something of that nature before you move away? Then maybe she can create a network of friends so that she has some healthy socialization and someone she could call if she needs assistance. It doesn't sound like you or your sisters are wanting to be that "someone" for her.

There are obviously issues between you and your mom, so moving her in with you is a no go. I don't know exactly what you have been enabling all of these years, but your mom is reaching an age where she is going to need some assistance. At the very minimum, if you can find it in your heart, I suggest you help her find a great place to live and help her move.

69 is past the average retirement age. I don't know how easy it would be for your mom to go back to work in her field, depending on what that is, at 70. Unfortunately, there is a lot of ageism out there and supposedly we are headed towards a recession. Who knows, but it sounds like this is her home and one she took care of her husband in that has a lot of memories. If you are moving, she could feel abandoned. And if you sell her house on top of that, that could feel like even worse abandonment to her. If you could afford it, I'd say keep the house and let her stay. Once she hits her mid-seventies, she could develop a health issue or dementia very quickly (I've seen this in both my once extremely healthy parents). It sometimes only takes a few years for things to go downhill quickly.

Has mom considered researching subsidized senior housing? They are income based and will surround her with new social opportunities.

Let her stay in the house Covid has wreaked havoc on so many lives . My son just got Covid for the Third time so No Christmas for us this year . 69 is not that young . Really after 62 life is Tougher . I would have some compassion - perhaps she can get fuel assistance or do small chores for you . Do you need the money that much ?

why can't you keep the house and not have her move?

I'm so sorry to see that your Mom had lost her job from Crazy Covid and now has to move from lack of income. So much to go through at age 69. Tell your mom that 69 is still young! Why dies she refuse work? Perhaps counseling will help her cope.

Try again to help her seek real work for some real income, even at minimum wage. What kind of a job did she work with and how long with the employer? If she decides to seek work, she can apply for unemployment insurance but may no longer receive special pandemic payments along with regular UI.

Unfortunately, age discrimination does exist when applying for jobs. For example, an employer will say to apply for work if less than 4 years experience in that field, such as clerical. I have even seen that interested applicants must live in a certain zip code area for a recycling job!

What about modified warehouse or store processing work, such as at a Goodwill for donations?? They are now rehiring with Covid modifications, including wearing masks with social distancing. It can be tasks with tagging, hanging items or hanger assembly where your Mom can even be seated to work. However, it requires that the employee be at work around 7 a.m. Could your mom get up that early on cold mornings to commute to the employer?

What about some remote work for some income to supplement her retirement benefits? Yes, she should try for some income to save maybe for a year or two. Save for some fun!!

If I was your Mother, having to get my head around my future, my finances, my housing needs - I would really appreciate some guidance.

I can understand though that fear, fear of change, fear of the future can hold people back. Sort of a denial I suppose.

Older single females are the fastest growing demographic at risk of home insecurity where I live. It is a serious matter & can bring on anxiety, depression & other negative health effects.

Are there Aging Advice Services in your area? Somewhere to start off to find more specific housing/financial advice?

Sitting down with an licenced Social Worker, experienced in elder issues, or a Counsellor trained in life stages could help your Mom imho. Having a professional to run through what her options are. Not want she wants so much, but what are realistic options. This gives her the dignity to choose the best option for herself.

She may not like any of her initial options! Eg move, downsize. But like many women I have talked to, once they fix on a plan, they start to look forward with more positivity. This start the process of adjustment.

Personally I have discussed issues with a councellor for women before & definately would again. I found it very useful. I hope your Mother can become open to new ideas too. The future can be scary - but also can be wonderful. (Especially with a smaller place to manage).

If this dynamic has been going on for years with your mother, you are not going to ‘talk her out of it’. You have enough on your plate talking yourself out of it. The year’s notice hasn’t worked, so action is the only thing left. Consider the following:

1) Give her legal notice to leave the house on a particular date. It’s necessary, you can’t just evict her without the correct legal steps.
2) Arrange to take a real estate agent through the house, and make any pre-sale suggestions.
3) Go through the house and make a list of the furniture that belongs to you. Decide what you are going to do with it when the house goes up for sale. Take it with you, sell it, give it to her, what?
4) Wherever she goes, it will be smaller, possibly only one room. What furniture can she take, and what will happen to the rest of it? What else will she need?
5) See if you can find out her income. Has she claimed all pensions etc that she is entitled to? How much rent can she afford? The usual rule of thumb is that rent shouldn’t be more than a third of income.
6) Talk it through with your supportive sisters. Ask one of them to come with you when you go to the house. You need support, then and there.
7) Forget about the job. Particularly with her attitude, she’s not going to get one.
8) If none of this works, rent her a small unit and take the necessary furniture to it. It won't be 'good enough', but she can look around for better herself.
9) Remove the bed and table from the house. It’s hard to stay without them.
10) Change the locks if necessary.

With any luck, you won’t need to go down the full list. The first 3 steps should do it. She will be furious, and you will be very upset. If you can think of a better approach, go for it! Otherwise, hope for the best in about a year’s time.

This has been yet another case where ‘no good deed goes unpunished’.

I had two things come to mind.

First, are you certain she is as healthy as you believe that she is such that working is truly realistic? Some people don't always tell their family everything and they are not obligated to disclose. Along that line, would you want her to be looking at re-joining her previous profession, and is it a physical job (i.e. bedside nursing, cleaning/maintenance, etc).

Second, I'd like to underscore what others mentioned about looking for work as an older person. I recently saw the resume online of someone from my past. She's got to be 80-ish years old and actively looking for work. She married DH #1 when she was practically a child herself and stayed home to raise the family. She was desperately unhappy if not also somewhat traumatized by her life with him. She went straight to DH #2 who lavished her with the care and understanding she had never had before. She didn't work during the 2nd marriage either, but I'd hesitate to call her entitled exactly... more like she was recovering from DH#1. She's on her own now... no money of her own, little to no SS, etc due to practically no work history. I hope someone is in her circle to at least bounce ideas around. I know that if someone would have told her younger self how, in the future, she'd end up a senior citizen looking for work and trying to survive... she would not have believed it.

I agree that finding a job is difficult for a 69-year-old. However, there are things she could do to earn money, such as driving elderly to appointments ($25 per hour), sitting with dementia patients ($25 per hour), dog-walking for those who are unable to get out anymore ($ no idea). I live in a retirement community and people here employ such assistants. One in particular has a nice little business going and it makes her happy to help those who need it. Remind mom that there's no free lunch, and it's up to her to buy the dessert.

When I was in my early 60s, I applied for quite a few jobs I was qualified for; I got call-backs for NONE of them. It was my age that was prohibitive, in reality. Your mother lost her job during Covid, so while she was 'planning to work until her mid-seventies', that opportunity flew the coop with the job she lost. The post Covid world is something entirely different now, so how exactly do you expect her to 'go get a job' at nearly SEVENTY YEARS OLD? Not likely to happen. I came here to write what Tynagh wrote, basically. While mom is 'able bodied and very healthy', she's also pushing 70 and not a young girl with endless energy & pep who can get up at 5:30 am to start a full time job & drive across town in the traffic to get to by 7 am every day. Let's face it. She's likely tired. And scared right now, as well.

You're calling your mother 'entitled' when she's now being expected to find a place to live AND a job to support some inflated rental price that she cannot afford. You're basically telling her she's on her own now, irritated that she's refused 'counseling' when, in reality, what is a counselor going to tell her? Go out and get a job? Or find HUD housing? Or do meditative breathing for an hour a day to calm down the fears you have at 69 years old that your life has been thrown a curve ball you have no idea how to overcome??? Of course she's depressed.......she has no idea what her default future looks like!

That's not to say you should move her in with you, or that you shouldn't move, just that you should see HER point of view and where she's at emotionally and realistically, so you can help her with this dilemma she's in.

Help your mother find suitable housing she can afford now, on her current income w/o having to find a job. Or, if she MUST find a job to stay afloat, help her find an at home desk job she can do while staying seated, where her age won't come into play. Help her get set up in said housing and/or a job before you move so that you know she's okay & not about to become homeless one day soon.

You are entitled to live the life you envision for yourself, and your mother is entitled to live a life she envisions for herself. Not one of 'luxury' and 'entitlement' where she sits on the sofa eating bon-bon's all day long, but one where she's not working until she's 80 years old just to pay rent & put food on the table. That's reasonable on BOTH of your parts. Sit down together and figure out how you can accomplish your goals and keep your relationship intact, without her calling you 'self-centered & uncaring' and you calling her 'entitled'. You can do it b/c there's love at the core of that relationship.

Best of luck.