I am nearing 62 years old, healthy and planning to retire this year after 26 years of highly stressful work. Our grown child is on his own, doing well and independent. My wife and I have dreamed of relocating to another state where we would be happier with more opportunities to pursue our interests.
My parents ages are 91 / 95, fortunately live independently in their own home and are in relatively remarkable health for their ages. My wife and I have lived fairly close and have been there for them over the past 30 years. They are financially secure as far as we are aware. However, our relationship has not been the best over the years. They have been very self-centered, secretive, cheap and refuse to discuss their future health plans with me or my wife. My Mother has had some mental issues, but has always been very manipulative, selfish and reacts very badly when we discuss our retirement plans and the prospect of moving away. She accuses us of being selfish and cries that she doesn’t know how she will survive once we leave. I have attempted to discuss my parents future health plans with my older brother but he backs away from any productive conversation.
My wife and I have both worked very hard and have been greatly looking forward to ‘our time’. I plan to help and see my parents as best I can from our new home. My parents have lived their lives on their own terms. Yet, I still feel a great deal of guilt about moving away. I am trying to determine what is reasonable regarding my responsibility to my parents, while my wife is eager to begin our new life. Any experienced input in this area would be greatly appreciated, thank you.
So she (unbeknownst to me) took me (and another brother) off her POA (the two remaining brothers are still on it). This was done when one of the two POA brothers was in town. No one told me (he claims to not have known what she went to the attorney for -- that could have been true). I don't know why my third brother was taken off the POA, but I was taken off because she was convinced I wanted to get at her money.
I only find out all of this this past November when was in rehab after a hospitalization. Getting access to her money to private pay for her now permanent NH residence was tricky, as no paperwork had ever been done for that, other than the broad statement in the trust that my two successor trustee brothers (the two with POA) had the power. Banks and financial institutions want more than that, though, and my mother had not been declared incompetent.
So I could sign nothing for her, even things that didn't involve money. The silver lining is that I can be paid, and I wouldn't have been able to be paid for all I've done for her if I was a POA, as there is a clause that the POA doesn't get paid except for reimbursement of expenses. So I'm getting a hourly fee from my mother's funds, plus back-pay for the previous two years. And it's gifted to me, so no taxes due. (My mother will never be Medicaid-eligible, so all the careful recordkeeping needed for that is irrelevant.)
It's a shame our relationship was pretty much ruined because she was so paranoid. But after a couple of years of being told I didn't do anything for her, my time wasn't worth anything and outright disgust with me, the pay has made me feel better. I did it all, and my three out-of-state brothers didn't. The trust will be divided equally four ways when she passes, which is what it says and what she was adamant about. But my time wasn't free, after all, which is what she also wanted. "You don't pay family." Oh, yes you DO!
When a person is wilfully missing the point, or you suspect it's wilful at least, it is extremely frustrating. But you can't give up. Even if you have to draw them a picture, set up a PowerPoint presentation, use a loudhailer - you have *got* to nail them down on this.
This is probably a no-win situation and the only sensible thing to do is let go. Yet, I still feel stuck, trapped and disappointed with guilt about relocating. Coupled with other stressors, it feels like our retirement dream is just that - only a dream.
Any input would be much appreciated, thank you.
Johnc1
Fear, obligation and guilt are the major culprits.
My Mother manipulatively cries loudly that she cannot survive without us anytime we bring up the prospect of relocating. However, my parents prefer to focus most conversations around bragging and attempting to impress us with their money and how they plan to buy a brand new Mercedes for cash (even though their driving is extremely limited). While their independence is good but waning, they refuse to let us in and discuss any practicalities or take any kind of sound advice. Their priorities are clearly skewed and they have always been extremely cheap and selfish. This has been very frustrating and conjurs up many conflicting emotions. What’s more is that this situation completely falls to our shoulders as my only brother does not involve himself or visit my parents.
Johnc1
Go ahead w your plans and have a plan that you think will work for your parents. You don’t need to act on it til they ask. And they will!
Or is the obligation in your head, i.e., that's what good people do?
In original post.
“My Mother has had some mental issues, but has always been very manipulative, selfish and reacts very badly when we discuss our retirement plans and the prospect of moving away. She accuses us of being selfish and cries that she doesn’t know how she will survive once we leave.”
In your shoes, I'd leave and let the future arrive. Deal with the future when it happens.
Johnc1
This is probably a no-win situation and the only sensible thing to do is let go. Yet, I still feel stuck, trapped and disappointed with guilt about relocating. Coupled with other stressors, it feels like our retirement dream is just that - only a dream.
Any input would be much appreciated, thank you.
Johnc1
And to others who may/may not be interested: However, although I may disagree with my mother and feel she should include others, it is her choice. She should NOT have to include any of us in her will. It is her money to do with what she wants.
However, I will say that after my brother (only other sibling) passed away a few years ago, SIL has been sniffing around to ask me about Mom's will. (Please note, she has always been about money.)
Because it caught me off-guard, I diverted the subject, and said I don't know where it is. But to be honest, I felt like saying well, it really is none of your business. The only reason it is my business, is that Mom needs help with it, and I am her only child left and her POA. So, whatever my mom wants is fine by me.
My feeling is (and this is how I was raised) is that if someone leaves you anything, be it money a gift or whatever, from a will, it is a GIFT and should be received as a GIFT, with appreciation. NEVER should anyone ever think that he/she is ENTITLED to anything. My parents worked very hard over the years at saving what they have...that is their money; since Dad passed away, it is Mom's money. Period. End of story.
But from what Davina said, it looks like the will could still be contested. I think that's not fair, but if it is the law, then, will have to deal with it when the time comes. I wish Mom liked to travel, we could do all sort of fun things, but she has always been the home-body and doesn't want to go anywhere. I won't think twice about using her money for care at home when she needs it and use her money up that way. You should see how many purses, and pairs of pants, and shoes she has :). But it makes her happy!!
and P.S. (((smiling)))) it is not anywhere near any millions!!
Money is not worth giving up your dreams. Let them do what ever they want with it, except buy you.
I have a clause in my will that says anyone that contests it, gets nothing.
I choose to not be involved with people, no matter who they are, that use money for control, it's sick.
Will not bore you with the details. Every family has crazies!
We are also in our 60’s.
Not that we ever asked or expected any financial help or money left in a will. What people do with their money is their business. If they want to give it to charity or whatever, fine by us.
Know what my husband did when my FIL said he was not leaving money to the family? His dad was trying to use money to hurt my husband. He said, “Dad, flush your money down the toilet! We don’t want it. We only wanted to love you. You rejected our love. Your loss.”
He has never ever regretted telling him that. God! I love my husband for being the smart, loving, independent man that he is!
Johnc1
You use past behavior as a map of future behaviors, they are selfish and self serving, always have only cared about the end result for them. Okay, that doesn't obligate you to give up your life.
My husband saw your question on my email and read it, he was curious if it was a joke. After he read it he asked me if it was real. I said yes and he was floored, his response was, this guys a grown man why would he let his parents treat him like a kid or worry about what they want him to do? He obviously can't win with them and in those situations a man acknowledges that it's a no win and goes on with his life and dreams he and his wife have.
I thought I would share those words because you are obviously having a hard time separating yourself from their guilt, stop over thinking this and stop asking and sharing with them, get up and get busy living your dreams, deal with them as needed. You don't have to jump and run because they have a crisis, that's what 911 is for, as long as everyone jumps to their tune they have no reason to change anything. Only you can separate yourself and let them deal with the consequences of their bad choices.
Perhaps a few sessions with a therapist will help you wade thru the manipulative storm of emotions & give you the strength you need to stand up to them and do what is best for you, your wife, and your marriage. I hope you find soon this so you can enjoy the time you have left together. Hugs to you both.
Johnc1
Listen to my story and figure out if you want to be in the same nightmare later on?
My FIL lives with us since my MIL died. A year and 1/2 ago. Before she passed our lives consisted of being at their beck and call every minute. They both didnt drive, so the doctor visits became an all day thing because they would make early doctor appts, THEN they needed to go grocery shopping, THEN they had to go pay bills, THEN they had to go here or there “Well we dont have a car, and uber is too expensive” It was exhausting! Even tho they lived in their own place it was like we never got a break from them! They would call if they needed a case of water! “We are out of bottled water you need to bring us some because we are thirsty” Or if they needed food but there was no doctor visit planned, they would call us and tell us the list of what they needed or want us to take them to the store.
When they DID drive IT WAS ME going in late to work or leaving work early because they had a flat tire. (Which became more frequent as their eyesight got worse) my job was more flexible than hubbys, so they would call me saying “well we didn't want to bother our son at work but.....”
It was horrible! They literally were draining the life out of us! Financially, mentally, emotionally etc
They didnt plan for ANYTHING! Thats why my MILs wake and funeral was paid for by us and her 2 brothers. If not for them she would be in our backyard under the flowers! $12,500 final total between casket, flowers, funeral home, 2 day wake, preacher, transporting the casket to the gravesite, having the preacher speak at the gravesite, memorial cards, obituary, etc
The cemetary charges $1,000 to dig the grave and $1,000 to cover it up.
Yah IT IS that expensive!
My advice to you is MAKE SURE they have a plan BEFORE something happens to them!
My FIL lives with us, he has no plan, he has no savings and no life insurance, when he dies we will have to take out a loan to bury him. He has no relatives left and his other kids are worthless! That $12,500 will be coming out of OUR pocket!
Take action NOW! Dont wait until its too late! Get them to make a plan!
Dont be at their beck and call like we were, its horrible, mentally draining and you have no life of your own!!
Do for you and your wife, follow your dream because if you don't, the only one who is going to suffer because of it is you and your wife!
WORK OUT WHAT YOU PLAN TO DO - VISITS, TELE.CALLS; AND LET YOUR PARENTS KNOW YOUR PLANS. IT MAY BE HELPFUL FOR YOU BOTH YO SEE A COUNCELOR FOR SOME HELP IN LETTIMG GO.
DO YOUR PARENTS HAVE WILLS, TRUSTS, POA, LIVING WILL [YOU SHOULD DO THIS FOR YOURSELVES AS WELL IF YOU HAVEN;T ALREADY]. ONCE THAT IS DONE YOU CAN HELP WITHY MONEY AND HEALTH MATTERS, IF THEY REFUSE TO DO POA, ETC, THAT ALSO REFLECTS ON THEM, PERHAPS YOU HAVE OTHER FAMILY MEMBERS AND/OR FRIENDS WHO CAN PERIODICALLY LOOK IN ON YOUR PARENTS. THERE MAY BEADULT CENTERS WHERE THEY CAN GO TO HELP KEEP ACTIVE. HOPEFULLY. PNCE YOU SHARE YOUR PLANS ON HOW TO MAINYAIN YOUR TIES AND THEY SEE IT ACTUALLY HAPPEN THAT WILL ALSO HELP, IT MAY BE THAT THEY ARE SCARED THAT ONCE TOU MOVE, THEY WILL NOT SEE YOU