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Someone told me the city would do a "paupers burial" and sell assets to of set expenses. Is this true? Seems many elders die flat broke w/o tending to death planning.
I live in a Massachusetts. I want to correct the person who said when they are finished with the body it is cremated. That is not true. They offer burial too. But, I live in the Boston area and also worked as a RN. Not all medical schools will take a body. They have enough bodies and won't accept any more. You also have to understand they can keep a body up to 3 years. Cremation in MA cost $1000 to $1500. In a nursing home it is often suggested to save at least at $2000 for burial. Many of the good nursing home do have funeral plots and you also can have a welfare funeral. My mother died in 2011. She had a plot for 2 she bought in 1978, it cost her $350. Now 1 person plot costs $3000 in a Catholic cemetery. It cost my family $2000 to open the grave. My father is there too. My mother wanted a wake and funeral and to be buried. The total cost of her funeral was $17,000 and change. I find body burials barbaric. The cemeteries are running out of space and are now offering bodies that have been creamated to be buried in a two person plot. 2 to 3 cremations can be buried in a family plot we once thought was full it is much cheaper too. I want to be creamated and buried with my parents.
For FREE cremation, do body donation--those companies pay for it, as they profit from selling marketable tissues for research. There are cheap cremation services, if you get lucky and can find them. Other cremation is spendy...price depends on how well the funeral association in a State has locked up the business in their favor.
Spreading ashes on parents graves? Better learn for certain, in writing, whether the Cemetery allows that. Cremains take up a substantial amount of space, so spreading cremains for even one person, on a single grave, will LOOK like cremains--a lot of dust.
Cemeteries around here have even Approved, then after-the-fact of a person being buried in a pre-paid grave, DIS-approved of a headstone that was higher than the grass grew...they'd changed their policies....the woman who bought her mom's headstone for her mom, now has it parked along a main road, on her own driveway-- lots of traffic--every day for several years now, anyone passing by knows what jerks the cemetery became.
So make sure you get permission in writing, for spreading ashes anywhere a permit might be needed. Scattering in wild spaces is usually no problem--as long as cremains go through a crusher, to prevent identifiable bone bits being found anywhere. Most crematoriums automatically do that--but it's a good policy to check in advance, to make certain they do.
Those with assets under, about, I think, $100,000 ?, don't need a will; States assume what's left will either be liquidated to pay for Care, or to pay for disposing of remains, or distributed to next of kin. State is first-in-line after the Feds, for repayment, if there's any assets left at death. State or family can opt to have a pauper's burial of whole remains, OR, a low-cost cremation. OR, the body might be donated to a service that harvests tissues....those do the whole process for free--body pick-up, disbursal of tissues for researches, then they cremate remains---they will then either return the cremains to the family, or, they will deal with the cremains. We located a very low-cost Cremation service, several years ago: "American Burial and Cremation", that only charged about $700, which was a chunk less than any other cremation service--but that company is a fly-by-night too--sometimes they are not in business, other times they are in business--we got lucky! Mom chose to donate her body for science research; we found a company located in Portland, Oregon. Documents needed signed/ notarized by the person or their POA. The company contracts with a local mortuary to pick up the body and transport. They have a weight limit: 250 lbs., and this company covers/services most of the Western States. States may or not, connect with companies like this to take care of pauper's remains. Some, if not all, States will go to great lengths to collect on debts to the State. For instance, CA has been known to attach a senior citizen's SSI check even though that check was only a few hundred dollars per month---CA was after him for non-payment of child support from over 40 years prior--took them decades to locate him in WA. CA also tried to attach his current spouses' SSI check--they wanted it all as fast as they could get it. CA is allowed to attach all sources of income to the maximum available, and, allows ALL collectors to come at a person simultaneously. CA's attachment meant that his medical care became a problem for WA State; WA State then also tried to come after his now-widow's SSI, though she was able to negotiate small payments, and finally got it dismissed, since she had not been married to him until decades after that debt happened, and in another State. IF an elder Dies with nothing, and the widow[er] receives some later inheritance they'd not known about, the State may attach that: We got notification that Mom's last spouse had bought a small policy when he was young; Mom becomes the beneficiary as his remaining heir...AFTER the State he died in, collects whatever they have owing on his account. IF he collected any welfare while in another State, they also can come after that inheritance. There's another small policy, but trying to collect anything from that is a problem: he bought that one when he was 40 y.o., paid on it awhile, then lost paperwork, may have stopped paying on it. I just learned that ALL insurance companies pay into a pool to cover "lost" or "dropped" policies. Hoards of fly-by-night insurance/assurance companies, regularly get bought out by others, but policies get lost in the shuffle. This one has morphed through several companies, getting essentially lost in the shuffle. Most companies contacted so far, claim that number doesn't exist in their files. Having paperwork to prove the policy, is helpful. AND, while companies often try to wiggle out of it, they MUST pay on those claims, as long as paperwork proves policy, they must do due diligence to find the lost policy, and pay on it, if it had been paid on at all. EVEN IF they can't find traces of it, and a holder shows paperwork, the Pool must pay on it....but Insurance co's will go to great lengths to avoid paying, usually--including telling people "that policy is defunct, no longer valid". But, this person said, IF the policy was paid into, there is money in the Pool to cover it, so keep pressing for it to be paid out. ...and either or both of two States may yet pop out of the landscape to collect those inheritances before Mom sees a dime. She's now in a third State, living on her tiny SSI; pretty sure she will welcome the small sum, IF it works out. Though I'm surprised CA hasn't come after Mom for repayment of welfare provided several decades back...that could still happen, if the first example is any example.
Unless the remains are donated to science, the least expensive route is cremation. My husband and I discussed this long before he passed away, and we agreed upon cremation. He did not want a funeral, just a private memorial. He passed away on a Sunday, we had the viewing and memorial on a Wednesday and he was cremated as soon as the permit to do so was granted. The total cost was less than $900. I have his ashes and will keep them until I pass away. I have made my wishes known in writing that after my remains are cremated, they along with my husband's remains are to be scattered together over my parents' graves.
There has to be someone to tell people to make a donation to charity, or to do anything. I did NOT choose the plight I'm in (divorce, my husband sold the house out from under me, family is all estranged from each other due to dysfunction. I'm totally alone and isolated). So I have an emergency letter saying that all my household goods and my car are to go to the Public Guardian toward my Medicaid payback. Some people are on SSI and just have no choice and no relatives who want even their car or household goods!
I guess the money grubbers will do all they can but I really will not care because I will be dead. If you are alone your debt actually does die with you.
Even with family, anyone who takes any responsibility may end up spending money. My DIL and her sister had been helping an uncle with groceries. Meds trips to dr. Etc, and even tho he had 6 or 8 siblings, the nieces paid for cremation, and when a brother got some funds the girls weren't aware of, he didn't offer to pay them back. Disappointing, but they would do it again if needed. My mom got a prearranged funeral when she was widowed and had to sell the family home, and I did it when I was widowed at about the same age and got a life insurance payout. I also, when I sold my home, started paying for long term health care insurance so my kids won't have to help finance my care and my daughter won't have to drive 300 miles to make sure I have the care. Hopefully husband and I will be able to help each other get the care when needed. He also has that insurance. I can't tell you the peace of mind it gives us! I have a son who lives near and my kids are all my hubby has too, but thankfully they both love him and would help him all they could, within reason, should I die first. I wonder about people who do NOTHING, as they see later years approaching and don't have some plan in place. Makes me think they didn't think much of themselves, and certainly no concern for those who would have to deal with their death when it happens. But I have sympathy for people with no family or caring friends, unless it is their choice to die that way. Life is like a maze, you see something puzzling at every turn.
Family may want to help or not, but they cannot be forced to contribute if funeral costs are too much to handle. Some people decide to let the State to handle the issue. Perhaps ashes may be scattered at sea.
If you do not have the money, you might want to ask family members to help, but most of the time, they do not have any thing to contribute. Get in touch with the agency in you State to see what they offer, we have a "Potters Field" in Illinois.
Re Ferris 1's response: If someone has no assets, there is no point in having a will, because there is nothing to distribute. When a person dies without a will, any assets (in this case, none) are distributed in accordance with State intestate succession laws. While debts do not disappear, if there are no assets to pay them, creditors must write them off.
Debt does not disappear with death. ANY assets a person has is used to pay those debts. Sorry, but you cannot escape your indebtedness just because you die and since everyone does die eventually, better be prepared with a will regardless of having any heirs or not.
Sounds like every state is different! In California, the Public Guardian, working w/ the county coroner takes over when there is no one to claim the body or to handle the final things that need to be settled. If you own nothing but household goods this is especially true, and its true if you owe Medicaid. There could be a rent deposit coming to the "estate", bills to pay, and the Public Guardian takes control of everything and handles it all. I know, because this will utlitmately happen to me. I have no family to claim my body, handle my affairs, nor assets - just debt to Medicaid.
Depending on your state and locality will depend on what funds are available. In Maryland you must apply/register to the Anatomy Gifts registery. They just don't take anybody and it must be done prior to death. Some local governments may have a small amount to help offset costs. Also, contact different funeral home in regard to cremation, you'll be surprised by the difference in cost. Explaiing the situation they will normally negotiate a fair cost with no extras and even prepay paid burial is option. Finding a funeral home that does their own cremation is a bonus.
There are 2 options. 1. Donate body to science, ashes (whats left) can be returned to family within 6-8 months. 2. The state takes body and creamates, puts ashes with all of the other unwanted and unclaimed.
If there is family they WILL find you! In my state of MA the state pays a small amount to funeral home for burial.. The funeral home has to absorb the rest.. It can be difficult for the coroner to find a funeral home willing to take body.. Eventually one if found and the body is buried with small marker.. Massachusetts will not cremate a body without a family member signing, so that makes in more expensive for the funeral home.
Your assumptions are pretty much correct. There are homeless people that die here every day. They are held for identification and to find any relatives, assets, etc.then after all that they are buried at a very minimal expense to the tax payers.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
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APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
There are cheap cremation services, if you get lucky and can find them.
Other cremation is spendy...price depends on how well the funeral association in a State has locked up the business in their favor.
Spreading ashes on parents graves?
Better learn for certain, in writing, whether the Cemetery allows that.
Cremains take up a substantial amount of space, so spreading cremains for even one person, on a single grave, will LOOK like cremains--a lot of dust.
Cemeteries around here have even Approved, then after-the-fact of a person being buried in a pre-paid grave, DIS-approved of a headstone that was higher than the grass grew...they'd changed their policies....the woman who bought her mom's headstone for her mom, now has it parked along a main road, on her own driveway-- lots of traffic--every day for several years now, anyone passing by knows what jerks the cemetery became.
So make sure you get permission in writing, for spreading ashes anywhere a permit might be needed.
Scattering in wild spaces is usually no problem--as long as cremains go through a crusher, to prevent identifiable bone bits being found anywhere. Most crematoriums automatically do that--but it's a good policy to check in advance, to make certain they do.
States assume what's left will either be liquidated to pay for Care, or to pay for disposing of remains, or distributed to next of kin.
State is first-in-line after the Feds, for repayment, if there's any assets left at death.
State or family can opt to have a pauper's burial of whole remains,
OR, a low-cost cremation.
OR, the body might be donated to a service that harvests tissues....those do the whole process for free--body pick-up, disbursal of tissues for researches, then they cremate remains---they will then either return the cremains to the family, or, they will deal with the cremains.
We located a very low-cost Cremation service, several years ago: "American Burial and Cremation", that only charged about $700, which was a chunk less than any other cremation service--but that company is a fly-by-night too--sometimes they are not in business, other times they are in business--we got lucky!
Mom chose to donate her body for science research; we found a company located in Portland, Oregon. Documents needed signed/ notarized by the person or their POA. The company contracts with a local mortuary to pick up the body and transport. They have a weight limit: 250 lbs., and this company covers/services most of the Western States.
States may or not, connect with companies like this to take care of pauper's remains.
Some, if not all, States will go to great lengths to collect on debts to the State. For instance, CA has been known to attach a senior citizen's SSI check even though that check was only a few hundred dollars per month---CA was after him for non-payment of child support from over 40 years prior--took them decades to locate him in WA. CA also tried to attach his current spouses' SSI check--they wanted it all as fast as they could get it. CA is allowed to attach all sources of income to the maximum available, and, allows ALL collectors to come at a person simultaneously.
CA's attachment meant that his medical care became a problem for WA State; WA State then also tried to come after his now-widow's SSI, though she was able to negotiate small payments, and finally got it dismissed, since she had not been married to him until decades after that debt happened, and in another State.
IF an elder Dies with nothing, and the widow[er] receives some later inheritance they'd not known about, the State may attach that:
We got notification that Mom's last spouse had bought a small policy when he was young; Mom becomes the beneficiary as his remaining heir...AFTER the State he died in, collects whatever they have owing on his account.
IF he collected any welfare while in another State, they also can come after that inheritance.
There's another small policy, but trying to collect anything from that is a problem: he bought that one when he was 40 y.o., paid on it awhile, then lost paperwork, may have stopped paying on it.
I just learned that ALL insurance companies pay into a pool to cover "lost" or "dropped" policies.
Hoards of fly-by-night insurance/assurance companies, regularly get bought out by others, but policies get lost in the shuffle. This one has morphed through several companies, getting essentially lost in the shuffle. Most companies contacted so far, claim that number doesn't exist in their files.
Having paperwork to prove the policy, is helpful.
AND, while companies often try to wiggle out of it, they MUST pay on those claims, as long as paperwork proves policy, they must do due diligence to find the lost policy, and pay on it, if it had been paid on at all.
EVEN IF they can't find traces of it, and a holder shows paperwork, the Pool must pay on it....but Insurance co's will go to great lengths to avoid paying, usually--including telling people "that policy is defunct, no longer valid".
But, this person said, IF the policy was paid into, there is money in the Pool to cover it, so keep pressing for it to be paid out.
...and either or both of two States may yet pop out of the landscape to collect those inheritances before Mom sees a dime.
She's now in a third State, living on her tiny SSI; pretty sure she will welcome the small sum, IF it works out. Though I'm surprised CA hasn't come after Mom for repayment of welfare provided several decades back...that could still happen, if the first example is any example.
My mom got a prearranged funeral when she was widowed and had to sell the family home, and I did it when I was widowed at about the same age and got a life insurance payout. I also, when I sold my home, started paying for long term health care insurance so my kids won't have to help finance my care and my daughter won't have to drive 300 miles to make sure I have the care. Hopefully husband and I will be able to help each other get the care when needed. He also has that insurance. I can't tell you the peace of mind it gives us! I have a son who lives near and my kids are all my hubby has too, but thankfully they both love him and would help him all they could, within reason, should I die first.
I wonder about people who do NOTHING, as they see later years approaching and don't have some plan in place. Makes me think they didn't think much of themselves, and certainly no concern for those who would have to deal with their death when it happens. But I have sympathy for people with no family or caring friends, unless it is their choice to die that way. Life is like a maze, you see something puzzling at every turn.
If there is family they WILL find you! In my state of MA the state pays a small amount to funeral home for burial.. The funeral home has to absorb the rest.. It can be difficult for the coroner to find a funeral home willing to take body.. Eventually one if found and the body is buried with small marker.. Massachusetts will not cremate a body without a family member signing, so that makes in more expensive for the funeral home.
Everyone gets buried eventually...