Dad moved in 2 years ago. Mom died almost 3 years ago. She did all the finances for the house and business. I took over his finances then slowly turned it back to him (sink or swim). He finally was able to get a handle on things. Pay his insurance and car expenses and entertainment. The problem is he is about $200 short each month due to his now getting out and being social. He joined a church and now is going on weekly lunches. I want him to be social but every time I turn around he is going out to dinner and lunch. It is a double edge sword. I wanted him to be social it is good for all of us but at the end of the month he is coming to me for money. He was pretty good about paying me back. Its not that I don't have it but at the end of the year I get tight on money myself (I own my own business), Between him and my kids I cant afford the dollar and hundred (nickle and dime is no more). I pay all the house expenses food etc... He was like this with mom, he would over spend then she would call me crying and there was many times I fronted them money (not paid back much but that was OK). All he has is SSI which is enough to cover his insurance and regular expenses. My sibling covered his $6000 car repair last year and also covers his smart phone. I had to front the latest car repair. It is almost like he doesn't care and its fine to ask me for a couple hundred expecting me to have it in my pocket (OK I do but that is for me). Do I go over a budget with him and tell him he has only so much a month for entertainment? I did that when he moved in. Now it is dinners and lunches out (I am not talking fast food here). I can't track all his expenses online he has taken to using cash from the ATM ( I set him up online and have all access to his accounts). I don't want to stifle his activities lord knows I want him to get out of the house but it was like this with him all along trying to keep up with the Jones's. They would go on trips and cruises and vacations and live in huge houses and buy new cars lavish on the grandchildren all while declaring bankruptcy twice. This is the reason I don't spend lavishly and due in part to my wife who grew up in an immigrant household where money was to be saved. He is not aware that I watch his spending, he just got his check and he is a like a sailor on leave...... This is worse than having kids again!
I think you know, don't you, that your father doesn't have a handle on spending. He can keep it up for a while to impress you with how responsible he's being, but as soon as he thinks you're not watching he'll be paying his 1. entertainment 2. car expenses and 3. oh dear not enough for insurance...
You're looking at a tough love scenario, I'm very much afraid: you have this much money this week/month. Run out? Too bad.
Get your sister on board and thrash out a good, structured budget for him that you both agree on, because it's going to be miserable enough without added vagueness or anybody "cheating"; but hey. Why the heck should you make all the sacrifices, just to perpetuate his terrible lifelong spending habit?
And who's he treating, by the way? Maybe remind him that real friends don't need to be impressed.
Sounds like Dad isn't going to save for those "rainy days"... maybe stress to Dad that down the road if he needs a higher level of care, it could cost him $5k a month, so he better start saving. Or Dad might think, might as well party now in case there is no tomorrow.... [sigh].
If Dad is going to act like a kid who has no concept of money, then he needs to be treated like a kid. Time to take away the credit cards, checkbooks, saving account books, and give Dad an allowance. No more ATM machines.
That allowance will cover everything for the month.... show him a budget [if he is willing to listen and not have his eyes glaze over]. Therefore if he needs car repairs, then he will need to give up something else to help pay for it. No more you or other relatives bailing him out.
I a hinting at getting him to visit my sister but I have my doubts he will do that.
I dont' at all think you're being harsh. If he runs out of money, he'll probably expect you to pitch in.
I would think someone in the family should have POA and manage his finances, he obviously cannot do it any more. You could do on-line banking so he can see what is going on, but I wouldn't give him the password. I would just tell him, that he can't afford to over spend any more. He needs to start saving his money, because he may need it. What if his health fails and you can no longer care for him.
Sorry, about this but you will just have to take charge - its never easy. Having a family meeting with your other siblings and your father may be helpful.
And you can be social without breaking the bank. He can still go and have something cheaper on the menu (I'll just have an appetizer - I'm watching my weight)...so he doesn't have to spend so much to be social. Or soft drinks instead of wine or a cocktail.
You're being a soft touch, not harsh at all! So set some limits with dad and stick to them. Good luck!
I confess I had to just take my mom's money over. I gave the activity director at the ALF enough money for her to eat out, shop, or do whatever she wanted. So, she didn't miss out on anything, but she would have spent $300 at Walmart on clothes that wouldn't fit in her closet if she had the money! She was a true shopoholoic. My cousin, who has passed away now, was a financial advisor. He was always one of my parents' favorite nephews and the closest I will ever come to having a brother. Before I took over mom's money, I showed him how much I was supplementing her every month. He was amazed and very realisticly told me I wouldn't have anything except my pension to retire on if I continued. (I refused to take hubby's and my money to supplement mom.) We decided to take mom to his office, in a professional setting with him dressed in a beautiful suit and tie, to maybe get through to her what she was doing to me. She was quite impressed with the downtown area and his office, etc. We chatted about family for a bit, then he said he understood we wanted him to run some numbers for us. She gave me one of those looks! So, on one side of a paper, he listed her income. On the other side, he listed the bills I was paying for her, the vet bills for the dog, extras like internet and cable, manis and pedis, etc. He asked me were all of those things, like manis and pedis, necessary. LOL I said no, but mom enjoyed going with me and getting her acrylic nails usually with the ring fingers decorated done. I think he was truly surprised by that. He told mom he knew she loved me, and she nodded yes, and that she wanted me to have enough money to live on when I fully retired. (I was working part time then.) She said yes. He handed her the paper and showed her how much more money than her income I was paying for her to live the way she was. He told her if she didn't have me to help her, she would be bankrupt. Every now and then, he and I made eye contact as if we thought that maybe we were getting her to understand. When we finished, he walked us out and hugged us. As we were walking toward the car, I will never forget what mom said! She said, "He's full of sh - - !" When he called me later, hoping he had really done a good job, I didn't have the nerve to tell him mom's opinion of him. I just said, I don't think her attitude toward money will ever change, and it didn't. So, thank God I had a good paying part-time job and thank God that my knees held out as long as they did.
When mom moved to the next level because she needed more care with bathing and dressing, I was trying to cut down my own budget. So, even though it meant missing out on our manis and pedis and lunch out, I decided to cut the price in half and just get mine done when I could. I prepaid for her to have her hair to be done and a regular mani (they didn't do acrylics there LOL) and pedi once a week at the ALF. That sounds like a lot, but it was A LOT less expensive than having them done at a salon. When I told her I was cutting back on money and I was paying for her to get her nails done at the ALF, it was like taking candy from a baby. I remember crying on the way home. My knees had already started giving me problems, though, and I didn't know how much longer I was going to be able to work. I think it made mom feel a little bit better when I showed up one day and had regular nails, too!
Good luck with your dad. I know how it is, and it is difficult. I think it might be easier to have tough love with your dad living with you, though. After all, he has all he really needs right there. I'll be thinking of you. Let me know when you start whatever you do and how it works!
I'm coming across as harsh - it boils my blood that so-called adults feel no issue mooching off their grown children who are working hard to provide for a family, to save for that family's future and children's education, just because they want their luxuries.
NO, no, NOOOOO!!!!
Tgengine has been increasingly struggling with balancing a variety of care issues while also attempting to live his and his wife's own life, with no apparent help from family and under situations that become more complicated as his father's behavior adapts to the changes in his life as well.
He's at a juncture which many of us face, trying to find a tolerable medium, trying to allow his father to maintain a sense of self respect, trying to be fair in all aspects.
Like many other caregivers, he's struggling to find workable and balanced solutions. "Just say no" doesn't work in all situations.
I don't know where I saw it here, but there was a guy who went to help his parents out on a temporary basis. He was doing well and had a full-time job. Eventually, taking care of them took up so much of his time that he quit his job and lived with them. He said dad's truck was polished and had an oil change more often than recommended, but his was falling apart. You get the idea. Any time he told his parents that he was spending from his retirement savings to live there and to help them when he knew they had money, they called him names and accused him of being there for their money. I think he had done this for 6 or more years. The question he asked was, "Has anyone just picked up and gone?" He foresaw what his health and financial condition would be as he aged and he was at the end of his rope. I throw this out just to let you know that some LOs will take as long as you give without a thought of what it is doing to you and your future. I wish you well with dad, but old habits are hard to break.
It got especially ugly because my mom went to my sister (working part time, husband lost his job in the 2008 crisis) and my sister gave her money - then they came to our house to yell at us because they had to help her when they them selves had a financial bind. I still said "NO" and then the next month also, and the month after that. Finally my sister said "NO"
It wasn't until my mom got into difficulties with her senior rental and both sis and I said we were not going to take her in, that she finally got serious about her money and taking care of it.
She still is angry "I worked hard all my life and can't have an XXXX - whatever the luxury of the day is". it sounds mean - but I just don't care. No one owes her luxuries.
I guess I have a huge chip on my shoulder because my husbands brother constantly needs money to pay his mortgage, or new tires, or insurance & my husband's mom and dad think that since he and I have "good jobs" we should be happy to "loan" him money - like we'd ever see it again. We respond - when he pays back the $1000 we loaned him in 1995, we'll see.
Use tough love otherwise you will eventually when you get mad enough, but by then a ton of expectations have been set because you always give money
Anyway. He's published several practical books, TG, if they might be of interest?
Why do we do these things at uncounted cost to ourselves? Because it's our mother/father, because the poor old gal/boy needs a hand, because we don't want to feel bad about it, because it's the right thing to do, because after all it's not so much to ask is it...
And then, when it does feel like too much to ask, and you vent, you really do feel bad about giving someone, who after all is said and done *is* dependent on your goodwill, a hard time. And yes, as you say, back around we go...