How do you deal with a narcissistic mother?

Joan thank you so much. How true she is getting the attention from her 'boys' attention that she thinks she deserves. And you are right, about having little to do with me. I made that comment because last christmas when I was with the family she was real bitch and two years ago this past thanksgiving, I was also present and she was at her worst However in both cases, she was not the center of attention and she did not like that one bit. From what I am undestanding, she got a tons of hugs and tons of attention thus happiness We will see what happens Christmas. Love ya Joan

is it normal for me to resent that my NM supposedly is so happy. Shouldnt I be happy for her? But I am not. I am trying to get an appointment to get some therapy. I am still so angry cause everything now is suppose to be oke-doe-kee but its not. At least not for me. I do believe that I need to just let her be-have her happiness. Do you think maybe I am upset cause she doesnt seem to give me the time of day. She dont ask about me-dont call-nothing. But isnt this what I wanted. Boy am I messed up or what?

(((((playa))))) Yes, it is normal. No, you are not messed up, but you are hurting from being rejected by your mum. She is the one who is messed up.Of course, it is not OK for you. She has been abusive towards you, and rejected you. I don't think there is any worse rejection that from a parent.. One summer after my mum had raged and raged at me all summer, and I finally took a stand, and moved out, she and my sis walked past me in the street and refused to acknowledge me.. At the same time they were spreading stories that I was a lesbian - which I am not. It was done to defame me.(no offence meant to anyone who is) Not such a big deal these days, but at that time in that community it was a big deal, as was walking past me in the street and acting as if they didn't know me. It hurt and I can still feel it over 50 years later. You are right in the middle of the craziness, and being emotionally abused, and you are hurting. Big (((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))) -keep believing in yourself, and knowing that this is not your fault, and that you are a worthwhile person. Noth8ng will ever be Okey dokey aroun d your mum, or not for long, My mum still plays those kind of games with my sis to exclude me, when it suits her, and it still stings, but I cannot let it affect my self esteem and sense of .worth. Don't let your mum's unhealthy behaviour affect you that way either.. I don't say it is easy, but keep telling yourself that you are OK, you are normal, you are loveable, you are valuable, and yu deserve better treatment. Love and ((((((hugs))))) Joan

ok will this ever end. I suppose it will only end when I end it. first of all, I have an appointment with a therapist on tuesday. I have decided to see my nm on the 16th. My husband and I will be taking her to brunch. However I found out something this evening and now trying to decide if I even should bother.

I have a 40 year son that never really got along with his grandma. She really made it clear after he was born, that she wasnt really wasnt interested in him. Our daugher is 19 months older and never was treated like him. You see when he was born, my baby brother was only 10 and as you know that is moms baby and golden child. She never attended his baptism, first communion, eighth grade graduation, never asked about him or showed any interest in what he was doing. His feeling really got hurt when she didnt attend his gradutaion for chiropratic school but two years later attended his sisters graduation from nursing school. Because of all this, he has nothing to do with her. He is one of nine grandkids-the next oldest is 26 and the youngest is 19. This year she has decided not to give him and his wife christmas money like she gives everyone else. The reason because of what I said -he never calls or sees her-but she never attempts to reach out to him either. Not that should would because according to her-everyone should go to her. So here is the deal-i have no idea to handle this. My son is beyond caring or getting hurt by her. But he is my child-I am once again hurt cause this is affecting me. None of her other grandkids call her or go see her. In fact, they all talk about her and make fun of her. Should I just ignore this like nothing is going on or do I question her directly about it. Honestly, I am so fed up with her, probably would be best if I see how the 16th goes-spend as little time as I can get by with and then see what happens from there. I just think at this point-I need to really move on and forget she exsists. What mess eh?

My first thought is that maybe your daughter should refuse the money form your mother, saying that if her brother wasn't included, then she couldn't be either. That'd send a message. I'm not sure if it'd do any good, but it sure draws a line between both of your children and your mother. My mother thinks everyone should go see her too, but she's miserable, and the kids have their own lives with school and jobs and babies. Once in a while, when they can, or feel shamed into it, they drop by, but they don't owe my mother the frequent visits and adulation she thinks she deserves. When they show up, she berates them for not coming more often, so they stay away. Vicious circle.
I'm afraid that if you bring up the subject with your mother about not giving money to your son, it'll please her. I'm thinking that my mother would be pleased if I pointed the unfairness out. It would give her the opportunity to point out fault all over again, and be the victim, and grind in the hurt. You're in a tough spot.

I'm so sorry! Why are some people like this? My mother is the same way, she just barely tolerates me (because she needs me for stuff), loves my younger brother (he is just like her), and DESPISES my older brother. She has hated him all his life (53 years now) and all he ever did was be born (18 months after my parents married, so it wasn't that.) I don't know what her problem is, but I finally confronted her about it yesterday because she drug me into it (among other stupid things) again this past Friday. I hope no one got hurt from the sound of her yelling the past two days. I don't know what I would do in your situation Playa, but we are all here to listen and support. Hugs!

I think Judy's right, too. I know my mother would be thrilled to death to know she is causing discord no matter who it affects. : (

Playagrandma- my MIL complains that the grandchildren don't call to talk to her so she can share the family history. Problem is, like your mother, she had zero interest in them as they were growing up and making their own history. She has never attended a graduation. She was never interested in the school sports or clubs. So, I am not at all surprised those kids, now grown, are too busy for her. On the opposite end of the spectrum, my grandmother was the epitomy of what a grandmother should be. None of her 23 grandchildren ever remember being scolded by her, for us, going to Grandma's house was like going to Disneyland. She made everything fun. When I grew up, I moved away. Several times a year, my job would take me home. I always looked forward to surprising her and taking her to dinner. When I found out she had 2 weeks to live, I drove 2 days to see her. Your son knows the deal with his grandma at this point. I wouldn't let it upset you. I would do your lunch, but also see the therapist. Nothing you can do will change her, but you can help yourself.

all of you thank you. I knew you would make me feel better. I just get so frustrated with everything. My sister in law who I happen to love dearly seems to see my nm side of it-that why should she bother when he wont call her or see her. I said does your son call or go and see her. She said thats different he is only 26-your son is 40. WHAT? Its okay for a 26 year not to call or visit his grandma but a 40 year old should. I just dont want any problems or tension in this family over her but if I continue down this path-I am afraid there will be problems. So I will see the therapist-maybe or maybe not see my nm on the 16th and last try real hard not to talk about her with my sil's because right now they are really upsetting. have a good week everyone!

Your therapist will probably help you to decide what to do about visiting her-myself I would decide if I want to go see her-you know she is not going to change-I would not get caught in her web-she wants attention even negative attention-I would not give her my power and probably stay away-I try to avoid drama at all cost and she is a drama qween for sure.

I have noticed that my mom's behavior has improved since her blood pressure is under control. It took ALOT of work by her hospice nurse and changing or meds. Of course, there are still secrets and stories, but the improvement helps us tolerate it a little easier.

again thanks everyone. Didnt sleep very good last night. But this morning I decided that all this needs to stop. I sent an email this morning to my sil and appologizing for bringing my nephew into this. that was not fair or did I have a right to do that. So I have been reaching out to some very wise people, most on this forum. I NEED to stop letting her get to be. I must become detached. I will go see her this one time-do lunch and then take it from there. Thanks again everyone. Have a good day

well today was the day-went to see my NM-first time since July 29th. My brothers were telling me how good she is doing. Oh on some levels at least for now she is doing good. She is looking good-seems to be doing good on her own. But since I am the suspious one-little things I picked up on made me realize that sooner or later she will be back to her old ways. I bit my tongue and I know she noticed. She seems to take another attitude with her sons. Now something else has happened and I have no idea what to do. She gave us our Christmas money. She give $100 to each family every Christmas. And my birthday card which is the 23rd. In between was check for $1000. Since we just arrived, I did not want to start a scene. I really dont want her money and cant seem to get it through to her that I dont. I asked her what it was for and she said it was for helping her move and all the things we have done for her(this of course was day late and dollar short coming). My husband said keep it -why get her mad all over-she has the money and its the only way she knows to thank someone. I say its money that will be held over my head and indebted to her. Which I wont be ever again. My husband needs earring aides realy bad and costco has them for $1000. A part of me wants to send the check back to her-the other part wants to do this for my husband-since he has been right there with me helping her. The biggest issue I have is the low self esteem I feel everytime she tries and gives me money. She doesnt do this for the other four. What do you guys think?

Say thank you and keep the money-it will help with the cost of hearing aids that your husband does need-and practice detatchment from her-you must have relatives that do not play her game-just like I plan to be around the nice seniors at my groups and not let the complainers bring we down-we have a choice who we give our power to and who we ignor.

thanks. the detachment does have to continue. My brothers has a canty way of ignoring her although I do believe she at least for now, is very cautious around them cause she understands she is on borrowed time with them. I probably overreact and as my husband pointed out-I was looking for her to goof up which she did. Right now the soonest I can see her again is March. She put a message in my birthday card that said take one day at a time-good advice

back again cause I had a bad night. how does one get rid of negativity. Do I continue to blame NM? I have another therapy session tomorrow. I just dont like myself. I dont like to be like this? In other words, I am a total mess. I feel so inferior in part because I took that damn money and its looking like i will not return it. The people closes to me-said by all means keep it. But its me that has to deal with this. I do know that sending it back will create more turmoil.

((((((playa)))))) - been thinking about you. Blaming does not help anyone. Dealing with your own negativity is a challenge. Hope the therapy is helping. I agree about the money - keep it but do not let your NM jerk any strings. She can try, but it is up to you not to respond. I am sure you do not want to create more turmoil. Your mother is your mother, she is narcissistic and nothing you can do will change her ways. All you can do is protect yourself. Part of that is accepting who and how your mother is, and grieving the loss of the mother you never had but needed. She will never fill that void. You are a worth while person who did not deserve this in life, but sh*t happens to all of us in one way or another. If you can let go of the FOG - fear, obligation and guilt, you would makes strides ahead. Here are a few words on detaching. It is what you need to do for your own good.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Detaching
Accept that they are responsible for their own choices
Anger –deal with it in a healthy way
Blame –don’t and don’t accept it
Consequences – face them and see that others experience them
Decide what you are willing to do and what you are not willing to do
Detachment is not a feeling so much as a choice of behaviours, though the feelings should follow the behaviours. Detachment means you can maintain positive behaviours towards to others –kindness, compassion,
Don’t take on blame, guilt, manipulation anger - don’t enable
Focus on yourself
Forgive, but don’t forget the need to protect yourself
Grieve the relationship as it was, the hopes that you had, the mistreatment you received,
Refuse to be manipulated e.g, emotional blackmail
Respond, don’t react
Separate - physically, emotionally, spiritually, mentally, socially from others behaviours/feelings
Set boundaries
Say “No”
Space –create it between you and them
Try not to take the behaviours personally
Treat others and yourself with love and dignity
You can only control /change yourself – your emotions, your behaviours –do not take responsibility for the others feelings or behaviours
Realise it is a process and that you will make mistakes and get “sucked” in, but that you can learn from your mistakes.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I can recommend the book and workbook
Stop Walking on Eggshells
When someone in your life has borderline or narcissistic personality disorder
by Randi Kreger and Paul Mason -here us an excerpt
Remember it's Detaching "With Love"
It's important to remember the "with love" part. Detaching with love is not a way of treating someone one else, judging them, controlling their action, or implying approval or disapproval. If the world were a store and someone came up to you looking for the auto parts section, detaching would be like saying, "I'm sorry, but I'm not the sales clerk. I don't know where the auto parts are; perhaps you can find a sales clerk at the customer service counter." It's not saying, "Let me find out for you," and it's not snapping "Do you see me wearing a uniform? No? Then leave me alone!"
Detaching is a method of setting boundaries to protect yourself. It can also mean that you give up the notion that you can control their behavior, and you stop allowing them to control yours. It’s hard. It takes practice. But for many, detaching works
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and here is a poem on "Letting Go" - author unknown

To let go doesn't mean to stop caring;
It means I can't do it for someone else.
To let go is not to cut myself off...
It's the realization that I can't control another...
To let go is not to enable,
but to allow learning from natural consequences.
To let go is to admit powerlessness,
which means the outcome is not in my hands.
To let go is not to try and change or blame another,
I can only change myself.
To let go is not to care for, but to care about.
To let go is not to fix, but to be supportive.
To let go is not to judge,
but to allow another to be a human being.
To let go is not to be in the middle arranging all the outcomes,
but to allow others to affect their own outcomes.
To let go is not to be protective,
It is to permit another to face reality.
To let go is not to deny, but to accept.
To let go is not to nag, scold, or argue,
but to search out my own shortcomings and correct them.
To let go is not to adjust everything to my desires,
but to take each day as it comes and cherish the moment.
To let go is not to criticize and regulate anyone,
but to try to become what I dream I can be.
To let go is not to regret the past,
but to grow and live for the future.
To let go is to fear less and love more.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Wishing you all the best for Christmas and a new start in the New Year
Love, hugs and prayers ♥♥♥ Joan

thank you Joan and Merry Christmas to you. Every day gets better and better. I know now that I need to stay away from her. For me the damage has been done. No matter what she does from here on out wont heal that damage. My biggest issue with her right now is her balant treatment of our son. I just cant figure out how a grandmother just deliberating writes off her oldest grandson. Her reason is he dont call or visit her. He isnt the best in saying thank you However the rest of the grandkids-although much younger than my son-dont bother calling or visiting her either. The only time they see her is at thanksgiving and christmas. Several make fun of her on facebook. Like my daughter said she didnt realize that conditions were attached but looks like there is. You see she only started this after my father passed away because he would never in a million years allow this. My son could care less-and would be very upset if he knew how much this upset me. But even though he is 40-he is my son. I do want to have it out with her on this but have refrained because I dont want her in one of her moods for christmas and have the rest of family suffer. I am at our daughters and enjoying the holidays with her family. Got to spend friday and saturday with our son. I hope each and everyone of you have a very merry christmas and a healthy happy new year.

(((((hugs))) I am glad each day is better. I have found there is no reason in what my mother does, so no point in trying to figure it out. I just accept it as part of her dysfunctional behaviour. Think about whether or not it is worth having it out with her. It just keeps you enmeshed in her craziness, and it will not change her, but gives her power over you. Boundaries!!! Basically it is between your son and her and he is old enough to deal with it himself, and if he doesn't care... I know it is not fair - mother does things like that, and I write it off as her dysfunctionality. You have to expect that she will do things like that, as she is not healthy. You can't change her - just yourself. I am glad you are having a good time at your daughters, and also spent some time with your son. If I were you I would let it go, and concentrate on your kids and your hubby and have a good time! Big (((((hugs)))) and lots of love and prayers Joan

Happy New Year everyone! Some thoughts about NM. I havent talked or seen her since my last visit dec 16th. Of course she hasnt bothered to call me and really that is for the best. I do get reports though and she is starting to restore back to her old ways. I knew her niceness wouldnt last. Thanksgiving she was given tons of love and waddled in the attention. Christmas a different story-my youngest brothers father in law was admitted to the hospital christmas eve. As it turned it him and his wife had christmas at their house. All of sudden she wasnt getting that attention and that did no make her happy at all. Before she moved into her new place-she was told she was not allowed to smoke. She was given the option to to get out of the lease and find another place. But no-her back was now against the wall. And of course she was caught smoking and now have been told-no more warnings-next time she will get a 30 day notice to get out. And of course this will not be the last time. Oh she says she will quit-bought more patches-this is probably the fourth time she has both patches and only used a couple of days. She cant and wont quit. Plus no one is going to tell her what to do after all she is 83 and has smoked for many years. So here I sit-thinking someone needs to step up to the plate-do research and find her a place that allows smoking(they are few and far between), But who is willing and has the time to do this. My oldest brother left for florida for 2 months-my middle brother is a teacher and is teaching in a very stressful school-my sister lives in another state and the baby her golden child I am sure will not bother. Me? I dont think so. I know I could be of help-I know I could find her a place. But after being told three times to butt our of her life and stop bossing her around, I feel I would be just setting myself for yet another blame game. I am in a good place now and feel I need to just stay away from her. She has really made it very clear that as long as she has her three sons-she dont need her two daughters. And that is sad. Of her five kids-I was the only one who truly gave my time and resources to try and help her. And it got be where-nowhere! Love ya

((((((((((playa))))))))). It does sound like no contact is the best for you. You know the leopard does not change its spots. In my view you do not need to step up to the plate - nor does anyone. That is just bailing your mum out, and basically enabling. Her smoking problem and the effect it has on her residence, is her problem - not yours. She will be happy enough for others to try to "fix" her problem, but she will not cooperate, as what she wants is attention ( the essence of narcissism) not a solution. As you say, she has made it clear that she does not need her two daughters, she has her three sons, Let them work it out. It is not for you to say they will or will not help. Let it be. You are in a good place now - stay there, and away from her. Don't get involved. It is not your problem. (((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))) and understanding. I just laid down the law about not "rescuing" mine, and not getting involved in her dramas. My health is being affected and my health has to come first. Pray for me and I will pray for you. ♥ Joan

Joan as always thank you and I do pray for you. Each day gets so much better for me and yet I have to keep reminding myself that if I even start to think about calling her, I must remember all the hurt in the past when I did indeed try and help. I kept all of her voicemails and once I feel its time, I will erase them,. However they are reminder now of how vindictive and mean she can be.

((((((playa)))))) thank you for prayers. That is the trick - don't forget. There is a Christian websiste called Luke Ministries that talks about abused adults, and that even forgiveness should follow repentance. Repentence does not just mean saying "I'm sorry" but changing behaviours, Haven't seen a whole lot of that in my lifetime. I get warm fuzzy feelings once in a while and want to help too, but then I come here and see so many who are hurt by self centered parents, and remember that my mother has an illness, and behaves hurtfully towards me, and that I have to protect myself. The warm fuzzies go on a shelf - I don't express them, I keep them to myself. I sent my mother a long email this morning as she is after me once again to "help" her which is the spider's invitation to get tangled in the web. If I comply she will play her games, tell me I don't know what I am talking about, that I am going behind her back, she will go ahead and do what she wants to anyway, and end up being masty to me about some of it. It is the pattern of a lifetime, and I cannot get involved. After her last volley of nasties, my health has taken a down turn. I know the stress affects me physically at my age, and it has to stop. I will drop POA, block her emails and cut contact altogether if I have to, and I have told her that.
By all means keep the voicemails. You need to be reminded of how mean she can be. so you continue to protect yourself.
(((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))) - it is the pits to have a parent like this. isn't it, but life is good if we separate from them. I am planning on a good 2013 - better than 2012.

Hey everyone-need advice, support and help. I havent talked to my NM since dec 16th. She hasnt bothered to even call me-which i guess its okay but its not her style which means she is done with me mainly cause she knows she cant control me anymore. We have made a major decision in our lives-we are going to move away from her and move closer to our daughter,sil and grandson. You see they do need us and appreciate us. Trying to figure out if I should tell my NM. If I do it has to be fast cause we are leaving on the 5th for a three week vacation-we will return on the 26th and moving on the 28th. So what do I do? call and tell her over the phone, send her a letter, go see her face to face or not bother at all. I am leaning towards seeing her face to face. My only problem with this, it could turn ugly -that is because there are just so many things left unsaid that I really want to say to her. Then I say go there-tell her goodbye and be done with you. What would you do-Joan what do you think?

playa...I have no advice only a big "Good for you!" Life is the best when we are were we are wanted and needed. Living near a grandchild is one of life's blessings. Enjoy!

Enjoy the vacation, have an easy move and just know it will all work out just fine. You are doing the right thing!

Playa~From your posts on here and your history with your mother, it may be best for you to send her a letter giving her your new address and phone # once you are settled. If you are at a really good place emotionally right now, talking with your mother may send you backwards, bringing up all the hurt again as it opens the door for her to attack you. When dealing with a personality disorder, a big change such as the one you are making that is in your best interest, can cause her to start the old dialog of abandonment, guilt and the whole emotional turmoil about herself, all she has done for you...you know what I am saying...how dare you have a life that isn't wrapped around her, we have heard it a million times. Of course the letter she sends back to you will be filled with the same litany, but you know that ahead of time and can chose to read it or tear it up. Then you can contact her after a couples months and things have settled down. The more emotional distance you create, the better you are going to be. Hugs to you and stay strong!!

Shary you advice is real good-sending the letter because she probably know just what mom will. When my husband was in rehab I would turn down the answering machine so as not to have to hear his rants until I was ready to hear them when I felt stronger. He even had our son buy him a tape recorder telling him he wanted to record the family history but I know he only wanted tocatch me saying something in response to his narcisic commets-when he died the social worker packed up his things and the tape recorder was not with his things-I think she may have heard him using it to say nasty things about me and made sure it was not found-I was not going to listen to his rantings anyway-so never asked about what happened to the recorder.

Good for you Austin to chose not to listen to the rantings. That is something I tried to get across to my sister for years when our mother would send us nasty letters. I would tear them up because I already knew what it said. Sis would read them anyway and then was very hurt by our mother's words all over again. I guess she thought maybe mom would change. The only thing that has changed her is the dementia. That was a very wise social worker. Sometimes it doesn't take much to set us back emotionally when dealing with PD or the aftermath and PTSD. Many hugs to you Austin, I read your post on the YOU thread and your upcoming trip to help your sis with going thru your mother's belongings. Do what you can and if it gets to be too much step back for awhile.

Playa- I think the letter is a good idea. Of course, normally, you would deliver that news in person. But, you are not dealing with a normal situation. If you do it in person, be prepared to get up and walk out as soon as she gets ugly. You are moving towards your future. Don't look back. You know you have done all you can do. Congrats on the move. That's exciting. Enjoy!

Hello caregivers. I wanted to share an article we have on our site that you may enjoy reading regarding this very topic. https://www.agingcare.com/articles/caring-for-narcissistic-parents-150302.htm