At what point do I just sell dad's house?

I would start sifting through what is in the house, since you have the time. Throw out what is junk, rusted scratched, dirty stained clothes etc. Leave alone anything of value. This is what I am doing at my parents. I an amazed what I am finding in cupboards that is not wearable or useable. Once this is done and everything is organized, once the time comes. Your end task will be easier for family to determine what they want and to sell the house once dads dementia is at a point he won’t every go back.

If no one has been in the house for two years and if the water wasn't shut off, you may find considerable water damage since the house is in Michigan. Best to go and check its condition and make decisions once you are there.

Hello. I had the same situation with my mom. She lives in a Memory Care facility and owns two homes. I am POA and now because of her diagnosed dementia and Alzheimer’s, I am her Successor Trustee. I now have the authority to sell her home or anything else as long as it is for her care.
Check with your attorney, or banker, or real estate agent to see if you have the correct documents in place. If all is good, then do what you think is best. Remember, you were made POA and trustee when he was thinking clearly.
After you sell, I would suggest you don’t tell him. It will just upset him and you don’t want that. I’ve become a creative storyteller!
Just know you are not alone! Take care, you can do this!

I think you have the right idea in spending time now sorting, shedding, organizing. Using tubs to store memories/items relevant to siblings as suggested a good idea. His inevitable passing will only make the process of getting home ready for sale more stressful and primarily on you as trustee and likely will little help from sibs and also likely bickering. I think if you put down on paper pluses and minuses of tackling getting house to salable condition now versus waiting your discernment will become clear. I had to move my mum from Europe to States for her remaining months when she had a health crisis that landed her in hospital then rehab. Only child. Had to go through her belongings, residence contents, organize, sell, donate, on my own. By the time I was done I was an emotional wreck and exhausted. Don't wait.....

It’s obvious your dad is not thinking straight, and that’s reason enough to go ahead and sell. I would fly there and rent a car or truck and charge it to dad. I would not stay any longer than 3-4 weeks to get the job done and get out of there as quickly as possible. But I would hire local people to help out. Garage sales are never worth the effort I would contact a non-profit company that will come out and pick up all large items, furniture, tables, chairs etc. towards the end of your stay. Donate, donate, donate and if someone will come out and pick up all these items that’s even better!! Two out of the last five years to avoid capital gains seems to me that it needs to be sold by the end of this year, not sometime next year!! Good luck! Get going!!

Getting rid of the house to your dad is not only getting rid of memories...but the elderly, many who have undiagnosed dementia, refuse to part with their stuff thinking in their minds, they are going to get better and "go back there". So... YOU SELL THE HOUSE. YOU are the one dealing with reality. Your father is not. I am sorry about you siblings. Yeah.. they have all these thoughts but they are NOT The ones dealing with your father and the reality of it all. You are. YOU go do what you have to and need to. SELL THAT HOUSE.. As someone stated before, get the stuff organized and then call an organization to come out and take it AWAY !! I did just that myself. What a load off your mind when THAT gets done. GOD bless you...

My father sent me an email in Jan 2017, 'take a leap of faith' asking for myself, my son and our 4 animals to move into my elderly parents home. My father has passed and now I am caregiver for my Alzheimers, narcissist mother and the home. In the course of being here and moving here, 4 floods (mostly dementia) and Irma taking the roof, Ive lost just about everything material as well as my own wellbeing and sanity. When I first arrived I took photos of the atrocious hoarding, snake skin in the corner of the living room, cock roaches spilling out of the dish washer etc., I sent them to the Hoarders show. They were very interested in featuring us at the time. My sister talked me out of it, "Would you really want to put our family out there like that?" I should have because she shafted me several times getting me stuck here as my parents 24/7 caregiver while she stayed remote 'sending faxes and making phone calls for our parents' believing somehow that was equal contribution to the massive responsibilities of clearing the hoarding, recuperating from catastrophes and dealing with their care, that of the house and the hateful HOA constantly on our ass about the disarray of the home and yard. Email the hoarders show or hire people to help you clear that bitch, keep track of your time and bill your siblings - the funds can come out of whatever inheritance they get from sale of the house. It isnt as easy to pawn off stuff to thrift shops as your brothers and sisters might believe. Plus there are the emotions involved you will be dealing with while emptying the house. Bring your dad momentos from the home from time to time, if you make those moments joyful its YOU who will receive the small rewards of joy you might get with your father. It should be a law that the sibling that gets stuck doing all the work is compensated.

Hi, You have my sympathy. I went through that with my mother in Assisted Living, unable to walk but unwilling to sell. Difference was I had no living siblings and it was my mother's prime residence. I hope you aren't paying for the upkeep. I don't know about the tax consequences, so talk to someone who knows. Selling it out of the estate when he passes might be better at this point. You will not get much for the "stuff". I had an estate sale when my mother died with very nice stuff in a three story house plus garage. It included all my father's first class tools, mother's antiques, high end crystal, china plus stuff from their summer house, my late brother's house, etc. In 6 sale days about half sold. Cleared $5000. Still had to clear out the other half and paid about 2000 to do that. It helped with repair costs on an unoccupied house. Spent 15,000 on a new roof because there was no way to sell it without doing that. Original tin roof was over 100 years old! Shortly before my mother died I had finally started clearing things out and dearly wish I had started sooner. There will be more actual junk than you can even imagine.... dried up paint cans, broken things. Start there. Pack up and label all sentimental items such as photos that you can never sell. This will take so much time. Get started. You will also be able to see what needs to be repaired before selling. Good luck.

Start going through things at the house. There is probably about 1/2 of all stuff that your dad will never miss or care about. Start with that. Catalog anything of sentimental or actual value; be respectful of that. Having the extra time now will allow you to go through things carefully. I found a few forgotten savings bonds, military medals, and precious family letters that would likely have ended up in the trash if I had been cleaning out my parents' house under a short deadline. Clean. The more you do now, the better it will be for you later. The house will be ready for an estate sale, and then to be put on the market when the time comes. If by chance, your dad returns to his home after your first pass, he really won't know the difference. And the person who recommended you go check the house, they are correct. Houses are meant to be lived in. When neglected, all manner of things can go wrong, and you father certainly doesn't want to lose value in the home or heaven forbid, the home become a "tear down."

The simple answer, is no. You have been entrusted with POA to carry out your father's wishes, which were clearly conveyed to you when he was of sound mind. Whether you or your family disagree or are bored or don't like messes or taxes or your father wouldn't know or find out, or whatever other rationalizations you can think of, is irrelevant. The home resale market is in gridlock anyhow. If you need to sell the house after your father passes, and are concerned about time to sort through stuff, I suggest you rent a storage unit and do it there. But not until he passes.

You need a financial POA to sell his home. You can however "help" with maintenance by sorting his stuff, packing valuables, dumping garbage... Maybe your dad will agree to rent out his place until he is "ready to move back," it would still be his and it would be better maintained with a family caring for it.

Is the trust irrevocable and is the house in the trust? If yes, then you will still be dealing with capital gains if you sell it. These are never easy decisions and I am sorry you are having to go through this. My brothers were in agreement with the sale of my Mom's house and it still wasn't easy. Best of luck to you.

There are people that will buy the house and get rid of the stuff for you. We are called real estate investors. I suggest that you ask your family to take what they want out of the house, if anything, and sell the house to a real estate investor. This person will donate items to non-profits in the area and trash the rest. All you need to do is google "real estate investor" in your area and let them know your situation. You won't get high $ for the property, but you will get a fair price. After all they are in business to do the work, that you would rather not do. Enjoy your summer! (I would buy it, but I live in Oregon.)

You’re in a tough spot. If it were me, I’d do exactly what you suggested this summer and take him to Michigan. It might just be too overwhelming for him to imagine selling but it sounds to me like he’s been planning it for years. You could spend quality time with your dad and sort through the things you’ll need to eventually do anyway. He might feel better to be included and get to say goodbye. What better time than now, in my opinion. Good luck with everything. You’re a great person for taking this on.

I'd like you to not worry about a capital gain so you stop fretting about the house... to this end, check with your or your dad's CPA or other competent professional and see if the step up in basis for an inherited property still applies. Everything I inherit from mthr comes to me at a higher basis - the amount it was worth on the date of death. That probably means his estate would have a higher value if it has to be probated, and since there are several siblings, that will probably be a factor. But I also think there is no federal estate tax until it is worth 5M. Since dad is still competent, he could retitle the property to make it a TOD... or if he's going to be going on Medicaid, that house will be sold to pay for MA and it won't matter whose name is on there. I think the most important persons to talk to are a CPA and attorney.

I was running into a similar situation. My mother didn't want to sell her home and as I get older, I truly understand the angst she was experiencing on all different levels.
I debated, and made Ben Franklin 'balance sheets' and asked people and fretted over my dilemma so much that it made me sick and I felt guilty every time I looked at my mother because I was going to do this behind her back.
I should have done what she always taught me to do first: pray about it. So I sat down and put myself in HER shoes. I tried to imagine the reasons she wanted to keep a house she would probably never return to, retain belongings that she wouldn't ever get to use, and property that would require money to maintain.
It boiled down to a number of undisputed facts that none of us are keen to admit: (1) that she was going to die in the not-to-distant future; (2) the house represented all her memories, and without them, she would forget her life and become a 'non-entity' with dementia; and (3) it represented 'security' - the kind that we, who have never lived through a depression (maybe until now), can't possibly understand.
The anger and resentment she displayed stemmed from losing control of... everything. And so I decided to call in a friend who was a realtor and have the three of us sit down and discuss the options. I stressed to Mom that we were not going to sign anything that day. We were just getting information and a professional opinion from someone who had experience with lots of other families who were facing similar decisions. She relaxed and almost looked forward to the meeting.
Donna spoke to HER - NOT to me - as if she was a functioning adult who 'knew how many beans made five' as Mom was fond of saying. She talked about the market, the real estate taxes, the maintenance costs, the condition of the roof, etc. and the dollar amount that Mom could realistically expect to glean from a sale. She told her that storage garages were a great option to use for belongings she wanted to keep, and she had several names of reputable people who would clear out anything that she didn't want anymore. Additionally, Donna told her that the house could be sold "where is, as is," a phase I had never heard before. Mom wouldn't have to have anything updated or repaired, and could leave the heavy hope chest in the attic and the piano she never played in the dining room if she so chose.
With the assurance from me that I would never place her in a nursing facility, etc., but could use some of the equity to help with her care at home, as well as the cost of the storage unit that housed her keepsakes, she relaxed. Mom accepted all this information from Donna, but you can be sure she wouldn't have listened to a word if it had come out of my mouth! By the end of the day, Mom was anxious to have Donna come back so she could sign the papers.
After it was done, I often asked her if she wanted to go to the house or drive by it, and she always said no. It was as though that phase of her life was over, and she was free to start living the new one! A burden had been lifted from off HER shoulders. Who would have known? She lived several more years with me and passed peacefully in my arms.
All situations are different. You have to do what is right for you and your family, but I just wanted to give you a little different perspective.

I have a similar situation with my 94 year old mother. (She's in assisted living for 2 years) I have power of attorney, trusts, Etc. and have been slowly dealing with the 90 years of "collection" inside the house while maintaining the house and yard.
Since you have all the appropriate paperwork and legal authority, if you can tolerate the siblings storm that I would expect in my family... I would go forward with the summer cleaning and sale of the house... as you see fit. Then, just insure that all the legal paperwork for the estate is in order as the trustee. Good luck.

Yes...clear out & sell ASAP. You’re POA...do it! You don’t want Cap Gains problem. Don’t discuss ...just do it! Don’t ask Father...he’s not going back there..don’t discuss with siblings ...they have NO SAY in the matter. Hugs 🤗

Marydys,
After my Uncle passed away in October, I became my Aunts POA.
I knew she was not safe at home alone. Couldn't drive, forgot to eat etc...
I had no choice but to sell her home. She needed the money to afford assisted living. She's been told hundreds of times that her home has been sold, but still doesn't remember.
Does Dad need the money for his expenses?
I think it's totally reasonable to take your time sorting the contents of his home and get it ready to sell.
He will never appreciate the capital gains savings, but if he truly is never going to return to his home then you would be doing him a favor in the long term.
Don't feel quilty!! It will have to be done sooner or later. Sounds like sooner maybe financially beneficial to him.
Hang in there!
God bless!!

...in addition to my previous post, another reason to do it now is that you seem to feel good & healthy now...who knows what & how your health will be like if you wait 2 years or 5 years...SELL IT NOW!!! More hugs 🤗

marydys: Imho, as his Agent, you should move forward with purging out the hoarding mess and getting his house ready to be placed on the market for sale. Good grief - he was going to sell it over a DECADE ago and did not!

Call up a friend there and get her to find you 3 reputable realtors-- then call them and explain the situation-- always be up front-- it will keep you legally safe. Then ask them each to give you a CMA-- a comparative market analysis. To establish a sellable price. Ask them each for names, numbers, and post-listing information of how each of the sales transpired and if they had to drop the price once or twice. And of course the listing price and the sale price of each property which is rather close in proximity to your Dad's home. Then get someone you trust to go through his possessions and find what should be stored and what should be sold, and what should be donated.
Once the house is bare, have it cleaned professionally, then list it with the best realtor. In six months it should sell. When it does-- go to the closing and collect the check. Then deduct expenses including travel, and give the balance to your father and tell him all his "good stuff" is in storage. In the mean time, go through the stored stuff, and pear it down to a small 10 x10 storage room hopefully at a reputable place.
IF he is mad at you, tell him you love him and you know he is not going back to Michigan. Does he have any dementia ? if so then he will eventually forget after you take him out to eat as many times as it takes. --- I had to do all this in Heidelberg, Germany. I never asked a soul what to do-- I just did it. And I did it all with a very small European car the size of a Mini-cooper. Just do it. Good luck, God bless.

As POA for a married couple friends of mine, once I got them situated in a memory care apartment, over time, I began on their condo, going through everything. Some stuff was easy to just toss. Any old family photos and things pertaining to their personal history, I kept for other family members to have access to. With no children of their own, it was only distant relatives that might have an interest. Books I could donate. Some of their furniture was antique, so I had an antique dealer gathering to see if they were interested and if so, how much would they pay to take it. Regular furniture could go to Bridges or Goodwill, which is where their clothing went. Then I had a real estate friend go through and point our things that should be taken care of, replaced, improved before putting up for sale. All this took me 2 1/2 years just working every so often and no more than 4 hours at a time. Once the condo was fixed up properly, my real estate sales friend put it on the market at the asking price I suggested and the second couple that saw it, bought it. During all this activity, I never said a word to my friend in memory care about what I was doing. I could see no upside to talking about it. He gave me all this authority to act on their behalf, so I did--thoughtfully and carefully. All the money from the sale bought another year or so memory care fees. It was so smooth with no other family members to contend with. I was also executor of their estate, so I knew their intent if they should die while any of this stuff was still there, and it only involved cash assets, not property items. So, I would definitely begin with the clean out. If anything looks special, hang on to it for a while or email a family member about any possible interest. Most of the stuff is pretty easy to get rid of--things that at his age even if he were able, he would never use again.
Good luck. Even 2 summers may not be enough, so the sooner you begin, the better. His end can't be that far off.

I was faced with a similar situation. My father lived locally and allowed me to 'rent' his home after he had to move into a senior living apartment. Slowly and unobtrusively I began clearing out the clutter that he'd long forgotten about. Out of sight, out of mind. Although we continued to have dinner at his house, I was able to reduce the work I'd knew I'd one day have to deal with. Do what you can quietly. Often parents resist because the idea of dealing with it is not only overwhelming, but yet another piece of their independence gone.

Your dad gave you POA and made you Trustee so that you could make decisions when he could no longer do so himself. He trusted you to do the right thing when he signed those documents and now it is time for you to take action.

My parents told me, in no uncertain terms to NOT to hire home health aides and NOT to sign up for the service provided at the retirement community that would ensure they got their meds. I was scared of my dad's temper too, but the truth is that your dad is very old and frail and you are a full-grown adult who knows what is best for him. Trust yourself.

See my video on YouTube about role reversal with parents. Enter Kathleen Vallee Stein.

Good luck!

Good coverage for Life Estates:

https://www.elderneedslaw.com/blog/life-estate-deed-income-tax-issues

Of interest was the section "What are the income tax consequences on sale of real property subject to a life estate?"

When you mentioned living there 2 of the last 5 years, it triggered a memory, hence why I thought the home was in a life estate in another comment I made. From the section above, what it would do is negate HIS cap gains, but does nothing for the remaindermen:

"However, the IRS provides an exemption amount (currently $250,000 for single and $500,000 for married owners of real property). This personal residency tax exemption is available if the owner(s) have lived in the subject real property for 2 of the last 5 years. It essentially means that no capital gains is paid on the first $250,000 of gains for a property owned by a single individual."

So, understand that even if you manage to sell it within the time frame, the bulk of the gain will be taxed to the remaindermen. The share for your dad is calculated based on IRS tables, and will likely be pretty minimal (and per another comment I made, it will likely impact his Medicare cost in 2 years time.)

Getting it sold by then will NOT eliminate the cap gains owed on the rest. Mom was about 94 at the time of the sale, and her share was about 9-10% of the total net. So, the other 90% or so WAS subject to cap gains. If you do like we did and put all the funds into the trust for his future care, DO keep enough to cover the cap gains you will have to pay. I was stupid and put all the money in, then had to distribute to us from the trust to cover the taxes, then had to claim that the next year (if done same year, only one time, but I made a second distribution after the end of year - DUH!) I would expect his share to be about the same %age (lower life expectancy for males and he's just a tad younger than mom was.) So, how much would his cap gains be, if you drifted beyond the 2 years? Good question for an IRS Enrolled Agent. He's likely pretty low income, so you might not "save" as much as you think. It's more important to get the unoccupied insurance, fix/clean the places and prep it for sale.

Meanwhile, I do highly recommend seeking both legal advice to ensure everything is A-OK for the sale AND find an IRS Enrolled Agent to handle the taxes after the sale. Some POAs require proof that your dad isn't competent before you can step in. Even before selling the condo, the 20+ pages that came from the trust fund for tax prep glazed my eyes! I let the Agent do it. Not any more expensive really for this service AND you know they have to stay up-to-date with IRS rules. I had him take over mom's taxes, as her MC is fully deductible (AL is not - only certain medical needs, but MC is) and I didn't want to mess with it!

Is there anyway you can just get rid of what is clearly trash (like old newspapers, zip ties, stuff like that)but not throw anything else away, but maybe box things up in a organized manner (like all kitchen stuff) in boxes marked as such and keep them in the kitchen, and do the same for the rest of the house.  you can have one box for pictures, one for knickknacks.  Keep them in one central location and IF he no longer is coming back home it shouldn't create a problem.  And when the time comes, all of the family members can go thru each box and see if there is something they want.....or to be put out for public auction or maybe donate.  If you do one room at a time, it will make it easier.  You can also check with an elder attorney or whomever you dealt with in getting the POA and trust.  Good luck.  you just never know what you might find.

Your father would have to be deemed by the court to be incompetent in order for you to activate your POA (or in a coma/unable to respond during an accident/etc). It takes 2 docs to testify on the issue. If you want to clean it go ahead; if you have keys what's stopping you? You know he's not in state and you are taking care of his affairs...you let it get messy. In fact as the trustee I would argue it's your responsibility since you are making money from being the trustee. It's his money not yours that is paying. Also, sell or not, your paying Uncle Sam anyway. Let your father enjoy the time he has left instead of you pestering him to do something he already told what his wishes are. I would love to see you try to sell his property without permission which requires his "real" notarized signature...oh please, can I watch? Legal comedy is my favorite... Perhaps counseling: for you I mean.

excellant answer, took a good year to clean out brother in laws house, just made it b4 the county mailed a tax that if it wasnt sold would b auctioned off for back taxes and it was a hoarders heaven. the back of the house was only a crawl space and the gound underneath was so rotted out, had to b gutted, i feel sorry for the buyer ( had three buyers b4 that) after gutting the back of the house which contained the kitchen and bathroom couldnt b brought up to code so county boarded up, now it looks like bad news and the buyers still have to pay back the loan.

You need to sell the house ASAP. Your dad is no longer living there and he has cognitive issues. Since your siblings are not helping with the house and maintenance, then YOU need to do what is best for you. If you have the time to deal with the house and getting it ready to sell, then do it. This would be one less issue to deal with in the future.