81 year old mum has lost her license and won't listen to reason. Any advice on what to say to her?

Personally, nothing you say or do is going to make her stop pestering YOU. So get YOUR doctor to say YOU are not permitted to drive for whatever reason. Show/tell her this. If that does not get through, have a few numbers available like shared ride, cabs, etc. Tell her YOU cannot drive as you are not well and are forbidden and you will NOT break the law. When she comes crying, tell her she should have listened and prepared and if not, that is HER problem. I was once a POA for someone and I told him he should start NOW and work out possible means of transportation when he could no longer drive (he was getting up there with many physical/mental issues). He became so infuriated that I even suggested this, we soon were enemies and I severed my relationship with him completely. People - and those taking care of them - MUST MAKE ARRANGEMENTS FOR TRANSPORTATION IF A CAR IS TAKEN AWAY - BEFORE IT IS TAKEN AWAY ...... But no one listens.

you could tell a little white lie and tell her that you lost your license due to your physical problems so she will need to find someone else to take her places. do they have a bus system where she is that she can take a bus to and from places? other than that, tell her that you were told by your doctor you cannot drive anymore. or you could tell her that your car is in the shop and don't know when it will be out and if you can afford the bill. wishing you luck.

What others are saying- she may be missing that shopping experience, and if that need can be met the calls will be reduced. She could be using this as a way to keep a connection to you, or prove to herself that you ‘care’ enough. It may be scary to her that you’re doing things that will reduce opportunities for her to interact with you.
Since she is mentally intact she should be able to make a decision based on options available. It does sound like she is a bit like my mom and was raised to put on an uncomplaining face socially, and voice her discontent to someone she trusts. And so that person hears a steady stream of their wants and misgivings, but not so much the positive things. Your mom may not realise how it seems. If you’re family, you will likely feel like you need to help meet those needs. When that clashes with your needs, it’s natural to feel guilty.
Talk to your mom and make it clear you won’t be able to be her transport or last minute shopper.
Write a list of the different services available for her to keep, and review the list with her to pick an option when she tries to utilize you. You may have to work with her to get her comfortable using a home delivery app or uber - it may be easier to do that for her once a week. If she’s like my mom was pre-dementia, paying a delivery fee and a tip for a gallon of milk will shock her wonderfully into remembering it at the store next time.

It’s most likely not the milk that she is most interested in.

Some people look at errands as an outing.

They look forward to chatting with the cashier or butcher, etc.

Many older people are lonely.

They want to see faces, hear others, speak to others too.

Can she take an Uber to the store? Then you don’t have to go and she can get out.

Or pay someone who needs extra money to take her.

One of my neighbors was in need of money after her divorce. I remember her helping out an elderly woman by taking her to doctor appointments, hair salon, grocery and so on.

My neighbor even brought her toddler along. The elderly woman loved her little boy.

It worked out for each of them. I suppose it depends on their health, concerns about Covid but if your mom has been vaccinated, she can go out again.

I feel for you. I went thru this with my mom. She was in her mid 80s and fell every day. I was about 7 miles from her and went down once or twice a week. One brother took her grocery shopping but, insisted she fill his truck up and buy groceries for him and his family. And she had to feed him lunch. I know she would give him money also. I took the checkbook, brother quit coming. I drove her to the doctor, shopping, to get her hair done, get her glasses, took her everywhere she needed or wanted to go. Even after she was placed in rehab and then memory care. She had to quit driving when she hit the gas instead of brake and nearly ran over a person and into the pharmacy. Scared the wish to drive right out of her. She sold her vehicle as it sat at the store and didn't get back in it.

Now, I am going thru this with my husband who has dementia and suffers from tremors, balance issues, memory issues and scared the devil right out of me last time he drove. He is 76, has glaucoma and I drive him everywhere. I am not in the best health but do what I can. He has a truck with only 27K miles on it and it is 8 years old. He is driving me crazy wanting to drive it but, the battery is dead. It is a daily argument. His dr said NO to driving. He swears she didn't. I was there when she did. I guess I need to start recording his sessions.
But, don't give in. we have a Star Transport here and they are not exactly the best but, they do work. No taxi service, no ubers. But we do have grocery and food delivery services. She could use them. Maybe some of her friends have grandkids who would like to have an after school job and have a vehicle. They could drive her places. Just a suggestion.

Now

I feel for you. I went thru this with my mom. She was in her mid 80s and fell every day. I was about 7 miles from her and went down once or twice a week. One brother took her grocery shopping but, insisted she fill his truck up and buy groceries for him and his family. And she had to feed him lunch. I know she would give him money also. I took the checkbook, brother quit coming. I drove her to the doctor, shopping, to get her hair done, get her glasses, took her everywhere she needed or wanted to go. Even after she was placed in rehab and then memory care. She had to quit driving when she hit the gas instead of brake and nearly ran over a person and into the pharmacy. Scared the wish to drive right out of her. She sold her vehicle as it sat at the store and didn't get back in it.

Now, I am going thru this with my husband who has dementia and suffers from tremors, balance issues, memory issues and scared the devil right out of me last time he drove. He is 76, has glaucoma and I drive him everywhere. I am not in the best health but do what I can. He has a truck with only 27K miles on it and it is 8 years old. He is driving me crazy wanting to drive it but, the battery is dead. It is a daily argument. His dr said NO to driving. He swears she didn't. I was there when she did. I guess I need to start recording his sessions.
But, don't give him. we have a Star Transport here and they are not exactly the best but, they do work. No taxi service, no ubers. But we do have grocery and food delivery services. She could use them. Maybe some of her friends have grandkids who would like to have an after school job and have a vehicle. They could drive her places. Just a suggestion.

Now

Pelar20: Imho, you will not be able to retrieve a liter of milk, nor anything else for your mother without wheels. The end, e.g. "sorry, mother, I have no transportation." If your mother has the wherewithal to get to the hair salon via the friend, then she can determine how to get the liter of milk.

Since you will be care free soon, have you considered how you would get to the hospital when they call about your mother? This isn't to "guilt trip you" but to consider if you have adequate options for transportation - friends who still drive, taxi, Uber/Lyft, bus... Consider investigating these options with your mother since she will need to find ways to get around without you soon.

There is so much great advice here already. I’m repeatedly reading between the lines. You like your life. DO NOT HAVE MOM MOVE IN with you! Do not answer her every call. Be busy. Live your life. Be happy. Summer is coming with gardening and walks outdoors. Don’t allow anyone to make you feel guilty!

Losing a car is one of the worst things that I can think of. Were it me, I'd dig a hole at once and jump into it. I have NO family, all are gone - I depend on ME and on one is there to help. I will fight to the death to keep my car. As to your mother, I say this. You don't want to feel the need to drive and that is your choice and so you MUST set definite boundaries and stick to them. Second, you must explore options for someone to drive her to where she needs to go on a sensible basis. It could be Uber, it could be some social organization, friends, whatever. I know it is a most difficult problem to solve (I tried for nine years and gave up). I even had to resort to hitch hiking when i was in my 80's - never again (I hope). Also, look into home delivery services for food and other options. And you could get a doctor to say she can't drive and warn the Motor Vehicle agency of the situation. This may help too. Good luck. She sounds stubborn and selfish so you take care of you first - ignore her if she doesn't shape up.

Tell her to take a taxi or call uber, or offer to call for her. I say this all the time, but nobody can force you to do something you don't want to do. You are putting this burden on yourself. It's obvious she does not want to listen to your concerns, so you needn't listen to hers.

After several dents were discovered on her car, I took my 89 year old mom's car to be serviced and didn't return it. She has the numbers for both local cab companies in her phone. They have her credit card on file. They take her to the store, library etc. I take food to her or have it delivered. Now that the weather is warmer and the hysteria has waned, I'll take her for a monthly shop... We both had mild cases of COVID in 2/2020 after I returned from a cruise.

I wouldn't discuss the failure of next driving test with her. If she fails, she isn't going to get a new license. You might want to pay attention to her discussions of when she is going to take the test and happen to be at her house that day. Then you'll know for sure how it went. Thankfully, she isn't driving at the moment. At least that is not an issue you have to worry about with her - some folks don't stop driving even w/out the license.

For her complaints, just offer your original offer - you could move here and be in closer proximity to shopping like I do it. (Although, as she ages, walking to stores may not be possible - so consider that before moving her into your home). If she is tech savvy, tell her to use uber/car rides. You could tell her to keep grocery list and call you weekly - order online and have delivered to her. Most stores have a minimum amt, but there are all kinds of delivery services now that could bring her nearly anything she needs. Just remind her you can't help on short notice.

She is going to have to rely on friends until the point she wears them out or they have to give up driving, too. If she wants to stay where she is and you want to stay where you are, not much you can offer unless you want to. When she talks about scheduling you for a trip to help, defer to a week or two away. Or tell her your own car not running well and waiting on repairs. Maybe there will come a time she is willing to move closer.

Once you know her strategy to get what she (thinks she) wants, you need to take control of the situation BY WAY of your, first: thinking, then secondly: your behavior.

* You need to ask yourself why you allow yourself to be entangled in this web - her web, when you have a daughter who needs her mother? Have you asked yourself Why?

* Why are you afraid of her / reactions to you, i.e., :
1. saying No.
2. saying you are busy now.
3. saying you need to make other arrangements, I cannot do this 'now.'
4. I'll let you know when I am returning. It might be (a) on Wednesday, in a few days, etc.
5. You'll need to ask ____ to help you this time. I am busy with my daughter right now.

If she doesn't have dementia, then she is repeating patterns of behavior in how she's interacted with you, likely for your lifetime. You need to go deep inside and ask why you allow her to control you and your behavior. So what if she's mad and having temper tantrums? She obviously will once you set boundaries. Does this frighten YOU to be on the receiving end of this behavior?

As I say "you teach others how to treat you" -

You must consider your own (quality of) life and that of your daughter, and, of course, your peace of mind and health . . . now and as time moves on. She certainly is not going to change. Whether she drives or not or wants a carton of milk or not, you need to regroup, take a few or many deep breaths and learn that it is OKAY, more than OKAY, for you to set boundaries with her requests / outbursts - whatever you want to call it.
Tough Love is Loving Kindness to Yourself.

My former mother in law tried the same, I need milk trick with me. But she went to far as to have her neighbour call me and tell me I had to step up to the plate for her. I was not rude to the neighbour, as they were unaware that I had called and asked MIL if she need anything 2 days before and assured me she did not.

She played this game until I put my foot down and handed her to paperwork to get free grocery delivery. I only lived 2 miles away, but had 2 young children and I did not want to be at her back and call any day of the week. Neither of her sons stepped up to the plate.

She was lonely , but made no effort at all to get out of the house to meet anyone. There is a vibrant seniors centre in town, there are welcoming churches, but she wanted to stay home and have people come to her.

OP as your Mum is capable of getting out and about when it suits her, even without a driver's license, she is capable of getting milk.

You can do some research on seniors transportation options in her community and pass that along to her. Here in BC, we have Handidart, a bookable public transit with door to door service for seniors and those with disabilities, in Vancouver, some are eligible for 50% off cab fare vouchers.

One thing in your plan to be car free that I question. I fully understand your desire to live car free, but will you also stop all visits with Mum at that time? Could she be fearing that day?

Remember that “No.” is a complete sentence. Don’t give reasons, because the other person will interpret to mean that things can be negotiated. “I’m sorry, I won’t be able to do that.” “No, this isn’t a good time.” You could look up some numbers for a grocery that delivers to her area, a taxi service, city transport services for seniors, etc.

Consider hiring/ asking a nice person to take her shopping once a week for an hour or so, maybe an inexpensive lunch. I suspect lonely and bored. And do decide that you would be doing an adult thing by setting limits to her demands.

Does her area have a department of transportation? They have transportation services for the elderly and disabled. Find out what her community offers to seniors in need of transportation.

Sorry, I think that ordering everything in is not a good solution, it just further isolates our seniors and very often, the trip to the grocery store is the only socialization many of them have.

I would find her an option besides getting behind the wheel of a lethal weapon if she is having issues and refuses to acknowledge them. Maybe giving up driving is the acknowledgment that all is not well. But putting her on the roads is not a viable solution.

If you are not willing to help her figure any of her options out, tell her to go through someone else and change your number or block her. That way she is forced to find answers besides calling you.

Congratulations on doing what is best for you. Many of the people who post here have lost themselves in trying to help unpleasant and sometimes hostile parents or loved ones. The best advice you’ve gotten is don’t encourage your mother to move in with you or live near you. It would certainly destroy the life you have built for yourself.

The second best piece of advice is learning to say no. Since you talk by phone, you have the ultimate control over that receiver in your ear and can hang up at any time. All the good techniques can work. Therapeutic fibs (for your benefit) like, “sorry, the car’s in the shop,” are perfectly fine. Redirection and asking questions work too. Since she just got home from the beauty shop, ask who took her, and wasn’t that nice of them. Nice, neutral stuff but you also learn who is helping as you might need to contact that person later to be an extra set of eyes on your mother’s health. Mention POAs and living wills, etc. If she’s been to the doctor, weave in a question about what medication she takes. She may not answer but it is useful to know. Anything but letting her focus on you.

You say she doesn’t have dementia, but you might want to do a little research on who to call in an emergency. Just knowing who to call in her area will help your peace of mind if an emergency happens.

I would check into paying a trusted person or friend to take her places ... could end up being a nice companion for her as well, and would do her good to get out of the house and keep her socialized. Companion services offer this for hourly wage, as well as private caregivers.

You have my sympathy. SMH. The car driving/license is one of the first steps and unfortunately for you, the most frustrating. Especially since you have been successful in making your life plans. So many options with home delivery and pickup of groceries, etc. that can make life easier. Pharmacies offering discounts and home delivery packaged into a small monthly fee. CVS has a "pay 10 a month, get five dollars in coupons and 20% off regular priced items." That's just one. Might not be suitable but even "call ahead", "curb side pickup" would make picking up a gallon of milk easier.

Many options to choose from and the way to get started is signing up and trying them out, one by one. See what suits. She doesn't have a smart phone to order? She should get one. It should be a part of her plan to stay in her home as long as possible without you running errands that you haven't scheduled. Now is a good time to set ground rules and discuss future strategies.

It will all work out.
If she doesn't get her license, she'll have to depend on her friends and Uber for her going outs and she can order her groceries No worries for you as you will be Car Free soon so mom will know you can't come over because you don't have a car.

If she cannot renew her car license, she'll have to make other accomodations. Is there a car service in her area that she can use, if she wants to go somewhere? Or something like Uber? Can you help her set up an account? Some areas have volunteers who will drive people to their doctors and other errands. She may need your help to get connected with these services for seniors in her area. It sounds like she may be declining mentally if she can no longer pass her driver test and is not thinking logically about her situation or about how you want to be car free. How will you visit her, without a car? Have you had the talk with her about what she would want to do if she is no longer capable of caring for herself? Hopefully all of her paperwork is in order, with POAs for medical and financial matters, a living will with her medical directives, a will if she has assets, and some financial institutions (banks and brokerages) have their own POA forms. My mother's credit card company advised that I should get a credit card in my name for her cc account. If you are her POA you also need to be on file with social security and medicare to be able to speak with them on her behalf. Do this all when she is still capable of signing legal papers.

Sounds to me like you're doing everything RIGHT. Just tell her you sold your car because it was starting to give you trouble and this will force her to re-test or make alternate plans rather than stalling another year. One little white lie is OK!

No is a complete sentence. Also, do not let her move in with you. She will only get worse.

I would probably say the car is gone already and that would be the end of that.
Do not offer or let her move in with you. That would be a disaster.

Hmm

Wants the OP as chauffeur - won't listen to no.

WON'T listen to reason or CAN'T reason?

Time will tell...

Say no.
Suggest Taxi, Uber, senior services. Then drop it.
See what she does.

Has she the grace to change her mind & the confidence to try a taxi?
Or are there more & more 'emergencies' cropping up?

Good that you added the p.s. because your profile lists Alz.

Your profile also states:

" i am happy but feel guilty because my old mother is not."

BE happy. Don't feel guilty if she isn't. Happiness comes from within. WE can't make someone else happy, so WE shouldn't feel guilt if they can't make their own happiness.

"She has refused to move either in with me or even to my town. So I went ahead and looked after my own and my daughters comfort and bought into this retirement community."

THAT was probably one of the BEST decisions you have ever made! See next quote.

"She is so nice and polite in front of her friends but over the phone she runs everyone down to me. I am sick and tired of her complaining and denial of her own problems."

THAT'S what you would have been living with, 24/7. BTW, I KNOW the type. My mother was like that - friends, neighbors, family. I was getting really fed up with that nonsense, esp in regards to one former SIL. I often thought what her friends and family members would think if they ever heard all the back-handed comments she made about them! I was also taking up space in my head - I didn't feel it right to go blabbing what she was saying to those she talked smack about. Last time she started on the SIL I swore the next would be cut off and the last. Not only was SIL divorced and didn't cause issues with OB, she also died in the hospital after some kind of surgery. Geeze Louise mom, the woman is dead, give it a fricking rest! Dementia came along and took care of that. She still did, now and then, go on about one or another of her sisters, but not to the same extent and the only thing that can be attempted is to redirect the discussion.

Anyway. Your mother managed to get out and get her hair done and get some necessities. Good for her. Back off, don't help, and she'll manage to figure out how to do for herself. Not sure where you're located (litre of milk says not likely US), but many shops will deliver. Yes, there will be a charge, and some require a minimum purchase, but anything they charge would be less than what you have to do to pick up a stupid gal of milk!

Are there methods of transport in her area (bus, taxi, etc)? If so, she can take those. She has friends and neighbors that she's nice to (excluding behind their backs!), she can catch a ride or ask them to get some little items when they are out.

Even if you DID like driving and kept a car, making a 2 hour round trip for a gal of milk is asinine! Plenty of legit responses, since you say she doesn't have dementia. Since she's asking for it now, not when you get a chance, then:
I'm working mom, I can't get out to do this.
I have appointment after work, I can't do this.
The car is in the shop, I can't do this.
I'm tired mom, I can't do this.
The local shops can deliver it to you mom, quicker than I can. Call them and have it delivered. I'm NOT driving TWO hours because you need milk.
(some above are fudging, personally I would probably use the last one.)

Keep pushing back, refuse to drop everything for something so silly. I can understand maybe taking her grocery shopping weekly or so, but not driving an hour each way because she needs milk. REMIND her each and every time that the car will soon be no more, so she will need to find alternative ways to get what she needs. When the car is not there anymore, the answer is just NO. I don't have a car mom.

If she continues to harangue you, find out what the local shops would charge for delivery of the milk, or whatever, and then triple it, or more. Figure the cost on what you get paid hourly x 2 hrs, plus mileage and gas. Add in an annoyance fee on top of all that! Tell her what your fee would be vs what the store would charge!

My mother sometimes ran out of milk or OJ between my trips (1.5 hours each way!), so she'd ask a neighbor. The 1HR aides we hired to keep her in her condo longer had no real tasks, so they'd go get these too, but that plan didn't work - refused to let them in.

Sweetie, Go stand in front of a mirror and practice saying "No". "Sorry, mom, I can't do that tomorrow. I'm busy. Or at work. Or not feeling well. Or whatever you need to say. If she starts getting ugly, " sorry mom, I have to hang up now". Tell her one more time that you will soon be without a car. If she brings it up again, tell.her nothing has changed and you are not discussing it again. Don't let her guilt trip you, she obviously can get her friends to take her around to the hairdressers, etc. Stay strong!!

If there is a senior center anywhere in her area, they may have either a bus for shopping or a transportation service or volunteers. Check it out.