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She doesn't need a BIKE RIDE.
She needs to be LISTENED to about the profound losses she is having. The losses you cannot fix.
LISTEN to her, Psalms. Grieve with her.
You can't FIX this with a picnic.
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NO, she CAN'T ride a bike.
It would be a disaster even with a helmet. She has not the balance for that. That would be VERY poor decision making.

And Psalms, when your Mom wants to tell you about her losses please just be quiet and listen to her.
PLEASE.
You aren't there to fix it and you SHOULD NOT DENY it.

There are losses for them. She has a right to grieve them. Just listen to her grief please, and tell her you are sorry, and if there was something you could do you would, and to let you know if you can do something.

I just wrote when someone said "What can we do for our elders" to LISTEN TO THEM.
Stop negating what they say.
Their lives are one loss after another.
Tell them you see that. You hear it. You acknowledge it and feel sad and helpless about it.

ALL THESE WOMEN have to tell their NURSE because their family won't listen.
They don't need a picnic! They need to be listened to.
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I think the thing you need to do is ask for your mom to be seen by the psychiatrist.

When my mom was in her NH, that's what we did. I only found out who she was because I ran into her one day when I was visiting mom. Bizarrely, she was iny college class, although we'd never met.
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Wise advice.

Of note, I was talking about the type of bike that has more of a chair attached to it. She can't balance to use a true tandem type of bike; would definitely be unsafe.

Your post will have me thinking a lot about how much I'm helping vs hurting. I don't want to ever jeopardize her safety. I'm just realizing how much I myself am not accepting what cannot be done anymore. I had SO so many plans for my mom and I that I see just evaporating if she can't even leave the grounds of the place she lives ever again. Which is why I do what I do - I want to take advantage of her having time out while she still can because I fear that day will come where she absolutely can't but I admit I don't think that day is here 'yet' because she had 2 fecal accidents over the course of a 14-month period. What I do think however is that she can't be out for as long of a period; that makes sense. I will also talk to the nursing supervisor/social work about this at some point soon to see what they say about all of this.

I have heard so many good things about Wellbutrin. Excellent point that it's not going to take away all of the sadness over her condition. It really is the drug I'd want her to try if she ever gets on antidepressants.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me.
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These elders don't know what's best for them and may beg to stay out longer than they should, given the limitations they suffer from. They think back to younger days when an outing to the park or a bike ride (please do not even CONSIDER a tandem bike with mom!) was such fun and long to rekindle that feeling again. So we try to make that a reality for them, not taking into consideration their current condition, and wind up with a big mess on our hands, and them crying, embarrassed and wanting to die when the reality of their condition slaps them in the face.

Bring the picnic to mom next time. Spread a checkered tablecloth outside on a picnic table at the SNF and enjoy your meal there. We took the celebrations to mom in her Memory Care ALF all the time, like pizza parties and holidays, bc she was simply too anxiety ridden and weak to handle outings, much as she'd tell you she LOVED THEM. We have to meet them where they're at now, not where they want to be or perceive themselves to be.

Wellbutrin max dose did help my mom a lot with her depression, but she was still sad over her condition. The whole situation is sad and not something anyone can fix, with or without pills, imo. Yes, antidepressants can help, but when we see ourselves in decline, it feels awful. Anything we loved ones can do to NOT underline that decline is most helpful.

I'm sorry things turned out this way for all of your wonderful efforts. Wishing you the best of luck moving forward.
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Is it possible she has anosognosia https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/22832-anosognosia

I guess she doesn’t though since she is so sad about it all. I’m trying to think of anything that might be helpful to you.
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I am still trying to figure out how she did not know. I think she knew but refuses to acknowledge or tell me. I asked her, "Did you not 'feel' all of this?" She says 'no'. That doesn't make any sense considering 'how much was there'. I don't think that is possible so I believe she is not being truthful due to this being so hard on her.
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RE: the grounds, there is a patio at the front of the nursing home. We go out there sometimes, but it is rare. Sometimes I'll bring her a meal and we will sit out there. But it can be hard getting out there alone (other residents sometimes come out too), which she prefers as she won't really talk to me if anyone else is on the patio with us (paranoia issue of others listening to what she says).
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If shes like my dad she wont take any supplements or anything that may help her. I learned to just let it go and let him be and not even try to help.
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The weird part mom didnt even know she had gone to the bathroom. Just let mom be mom. She's not going to change at her age. And I agree with everyone else shorter trips out would be better.
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Nope. She doesn't sleep because her roommate gets changed throughout the night every night. That's a lot of cutting on of the light and noise for my mom. As a result she looks like she's aged SO much in just one year. It's because she's always exhausted. I brought her home one day to my house and made her nap. She was in the bed for over 4 hours I think. I had to get her up to take her back to the facility as she surely would have napped for longer. What I'm getting at here is that she complains about being tired yet she refuses to take melatonin. She is extremely extremely challenging in this respect. I gave up the melatonin conversation too. I just tell her not to complain to me about things she refuses to change. My mother has mental issues; I cannot explain why she won't take certain meds that would help her. At this point I just...I just give up on it I guess. She has the right to choose to be exhausted. She has the right to choose to be depressed. Just like she had the right to choose not to take bp meds when her blood pressure ran on average 210/120 over many many many years...and now here we are. :(

What I can do is push her to seeing a professional that over time 'may' be able to break that barrier. Otherwise, if there is no way for me to force her to take some sort of antidepressant then there won't anything else I can think of that I can do to help her.
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Just trying to help as 'outings' for her mean SO so much.

After the accident that day I felt a bit sad not getting a 'thank you' after all of the cleanup. But then I had to put myself in her shoes and just looking at her sitting there slumped over and completely soiled makes my heart break into a million pieces. Yes it can be exhausting getting everything purchased/ready and picking her up and driving everywhere and doing the wheelchair pushing piece of things all day but none of the things involved with me taking her out to the park for a day have got anything on the 'daily' struggles she has to go through losing her mobility. In short, she's the admirable one here having to deal with everything she deals with now and still have the will to get out of the bed - I don't know if I would if I were in her shoes.

I will say that I took her to a portion of the park and gave her bread to feed the ducks, at which point a lady walked up to me and said "I love you." I was quite taken aback. I guess she had been watching us. She whispered several times "I love you." And said, "That...this...this right here...this is what is love. What you do is what is true, unconditional love." Again, I was a bit taken aback but I thanked her and my disappointment about not getting a thank you earlier from my mom immediately went away.

We frequently have unexpected moments like these during our outings now and when they happen they really are touching.
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This one also has the L-methyl folate in it https://www.patchmd.com/no-iron-multi-plus.html
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I had gastric sleeve and this brand is the one my doc sells.
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Would she take a supplement? Of course, I would say to clear it with her doctor first. https://www.patchmd.com/focus-plus-topical-patch.html

My son had resistant depression so he finally was able to get a genetic test to see what is best for him for meds, and it turns out none of the SSRIs would work for him so the psych put him on L-methyl folate which is a supplement and is a precursor to your body making the brain chemicals. He is doing so much better just on this supplement.

This vitamin/supplement patch has L-methyl folate in it (I think others might too but this is the one I found).
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@southernwave,

I totally understand all that you were saying; I know that you did not mean to criticize.
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@BarbBrooklyn,

Definitely getting her to a therapist that could convince her to try the ADs is key. I am not sure how to do that. I have been asking for the psychiatrist's contact info from the nursing facility and they said they can't give it to me. It's the strangest thing - they wouldn't even give me the psychiatrist's name. I really really dread dealing with my mom's nursing home staff a lot (not all, but a lot) of the time.
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I see. Then psychotherapy (something evidence based like CBT) might be a great idea.


My mother was also against AD meds; when she had a major stroke, the rehab psychiatrist told me that they were part of the protocol for stroke recovery. I agreed (as mom's HCP) and she did very well on them.

By the time she knew she was taking them, they'd started to work and my mom was self-aware enough to see that they were making her feel better
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Well typically when I bring her back before 6ish hours of being out she gets pretty upset that we are not staying out longer (!) so there's that...With that said, you are absolutely right. Being out for this long of a period is likely now starting to be out of the cards although honestly she typically asks to stay out longer (she likes to be away and doesn't sleep much so 'bed time' is...I don't know...extremely late for her as she never really rests anyway as the staff comes in and out and cuts on the light to change her rommate throughout every night).

Up until now, it's worked out well as long as we take 1-2 restroom breaks while out but yesterday's incident is really making me rethink things.
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It does not matter to her; I have been saying this for many years now. I believe that she associates antidepressants with the traumatic experience she had somehow.
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Psalms, does your mother realize the advances that have taken place in the field of psychopharmacology is the last 40 or 50 years?

If she was on any form of psychotropic meds in the 70s or 80s, what's around today is a whole different ball game
There is even genetic testing which can pretty reliably determine what AD meds will and won't work.
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Well, that sounds ok. You know her better than I do. Just wanted to point it out and didn’t mean to criticize you.
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I don't know. I get your point but she has major depression and the more she focuses on the negative the worse she gets. There has to be balance. I didn't tell her not to grieve and not to talk to me about these things. In fact I encouraged her to do so as much as she needed to. But I did tell her that she can't focus all of her thoughts on what she cannot do anymore. But rather she will need to balance those thoughts out with what she can still do in order for gratitude to help her through experiencing all of these negative emotions she is having.

It does really suck for her. It sucks for me to because I will never have the perfect words to say to her and that is very hard for me to say.
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Having said that, you are doing a great job.
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I wouldn’t be firm in making her focus on the positive. She is losing ground and she should be allowed to grieve because it really sucks for her.
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She will indeed talk to a mental health professional because she is open to therapy. However do note that she will not take any form of antidepressants which I reallllly really do feel that she needs. However, due to a serious traumatic event at a young age that resulted in involuntary hospital commitment, she is very very much adamant she will 'never' ever take any form of antidepressant ever again. Unfortunately I am not sure I am willing to speak to her about the meds piece of things much more because that discussion has been ongoing for over 2 decades for me without any change in my mom's mind ever (we even visited the topic again last night and she was extremely adamant as usual that antidepressants will never happen again for me).
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I believe that unfortunately the time has come that it's not a good idea to take your mom out for such long outings if even any outings at all, except perhaps the grounds of her facility. That way when she has a fecal accident(which guaranteed she will)you can just bring her back into the facility and have her aides change her and clean her up.
It sucks I'm sure, but you now have to do what is best for all involved, and yes that includes you.
It sounds like you've done a great job so far and I'm sure you'll continue to do so, it may just have to look a little different now than it has in the past. You'll figure it out.
Wishing you and your mom the very best.
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You are such a GOOD person. I had tears in my eyes how good you are. Please tell your mom I say you’re such a great daughter.
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I totally agree with JoAnn! Does the NH have grounds that you can wheel her around?

If weepiness is an "often" occurrence, consider having her seen by a psychiatrist for an evaluation for depression, which happen frequently post-stroke.
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You must have the patience of Job.

I think you are going to need to cut down on how long your days out are. I think 6 hours is a long day. You did not get her back till 9 pm thats probably bedtime for her. She was probably exhausted and that brought on the crying. Poor lady.
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