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Windy
Good news bad news - did the doctor offer any suggestions ?

My mom has had many falls and compressed vertebrae - she refused the cement procedure 9 years ago as well as the cortisone injection a year ago

She took Norco when the pain was intense I.e., said she wanted to die and a heading pad provides some relief - hard to get her to take even a Tylenol now

Hope you both can get some rest
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Windytown, this pain your Mom is in, is just terrible! There must be something that they can do, especially if they can get her on Hospice! Even at only 85#'s, she should be a candidate for Morphine, they can add other meds to counteract the nausea and constipation that comes with it! I hate to se someone suffering in pain, without recourse! There just has to be something they can do, and I would insist upon it! So sorry all this added stress is all coming over the holidays, it seemsvto be a running theme around here!! Good luck with the Dr's, I hope she can find some relief! Merry Christmas everyone!
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No compression fracture, at least until the radiologist comes in on Tuesday. Doctor didn't think so. Hell day. Mom screaming in pain non stop for hours. Getting her on the xray machine took forever. Had to wear a lead vest to keep her from writhing to hold her in place to get an xray.

Was very difficult seeing her in so much pain. She was screaming and had to adjust her three times to get an acceptable position for an x
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Windy, hope all this is helpful..it all sounds good to me..especially about the UTI..I know that my mom's uti's change her so drastically. my mom has been on hospice care for 2 months...it has madea HUGE difference for me. The hospice group I went with is very prevalent in the asst living where my mom lives so they are there all the time...the CNA is scheduled to see my mom 3 times a week but because she is there, she sees her every day. when she got a bad cold, they treated it, I have been told that if she has symptoms of UTI, they will treat it without testing her (at this point she is incontinent and requires a catheterization to do a urine specimen) Any comfort meds are 100% covered by medicare. we have kept my mom on alzh. meds and heart meds and supposedly her secondary insurance will cover them..havent seen that yet so still in the air about the payments. also hospice nurse is at her AL several times a week and sees my mom even for just a few minutes every time she is there. my point is, use a company that is favored by the AL as you will see them more often if they have more patients in the building. (hope that makes sense) wishing you good results and pain free for you mom.
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Windy, thanks for updating us about your mom. I'm curious about her health issues. Pain is always so hard to pinpoint the cause. Ugh! Poor grammar. Ain't back spacing to redo with 1 finger. Tend to over-backspace... just reverse that sentence.
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That's the one I was remembering... they don't start to figure it out until post 91.
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Cwillie said:
You might want to check out the thread started by dmanbro about his mother, www.agingcare.com/discussions/moms-stubbornness-is-confounding-to-me-184838.htm
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And also, BTW, a huge behavior problem in elderly can be caused by UTI.
Sorry if this has already been covered further back .
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Reading back a ways for Windytown,
Did you check and re-check for a UTI-a bladder infection, traveling up to the kidneys would cause that kind of back pain, imo.
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Also, wasn't "dmanbro" 's mother having these issues with a fractured (but missed dx) pelvis. She was screaming in pain with physical therapy.

I searched on here for: "Cement injected to stabilize fracture".
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Windytown & Cwillie,
Is this it?
My mother-in-law has very fragile bones and has shrunk about 8 ...
Apr 3, 2010 ... She got cement put in in May and is in pain again now. If it is fractured ... She does appear to get relief from the cement, longer and quicker than the injections. It lasts until the ... Our mother has stabilized for a while on her pain. I went to her last ... Plus she has not had another fracture since. I think maybe the ...
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Windytown, I remember another thread where the OPs mom was acting out due to pain and the docs had missed vertebral fractures. I was surprised to learn that such fractures can be treated by being injected with some kind of cement to stabilize the break.... maybe someone else here remembers more?
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Hi friends! Thank you all for your kind words and advice. It's been a rough few days with mom. It appears the injections did nothing to dent her pain. I've offered to get her to the doctor daily and she has refused. Finally (!) she called this morning asking to see a doc. Good. It's on her terms now and not my call that she can turn around and try to guilt me later. (Not that it would work.) I do feel really bad she is in so much pain and now constipated too. Due to her having severe osteoporosis, I'm beginning to suspect a vertebral compression fracture. If that's the case, it is going to be very touch and go. The ER doc said she is too frail for any narcotics. Even when she was in better health and needed narcotics for knee breaks (3 times), she did not tolerate them well at all. Mainly they caused her to vomit. I'm hoping there is a different class of drugs that can give her some pain relief but I imagine the doc would've prescribed them if they existed.

I'll update later and let you know what I find out. Appointment is in three hours. I'm on pins and needles. *sigh*
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P.S...your mom is so feisty, isn't she?!
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Windy, what a coincidence. You described your mom's current condition regarding the outing. Then today, you described a dramatic change. It always amazes me when I come on here and see such changes. Sudden decline. Definitely describes it. It's a new stage for your mom and... unfortunately, she thought that this will tweak your guilty conscience. I think it would be great if she be evaluated for hospice services. I can't handle the thought of living daily with severe back pain. Headaches, yes. Any others, no. Like you said, just take it one day at a time. {Hugs!}
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Windy, I think that when in hospice that meds for comfort are also covered 100%, only if they are for comfort, not extending life.
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Keep us posted on how things go, Windy - did she get relief from the injections ?
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Thanks glad, I'm thinking that way. Makes more sense with her needs. Gosh this is hard to figure out once meds (stupid Advil, back patches come into play they rape you for dollars) Gah!!!
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Not on this thread much. Windy, is mom a candidate for hospice? Medicare pays 100%. She would have a CNA check on her daily and an RN weekly, a physician as necessary. May be worth checking into.

I am sorry to hear of her decline. Wishing you the best, and mom too, of course.
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Got a call from the nurses at mom's AL early this morning. She was in severe back pain and refused to leave her bed. They called it a sudden decline. Mom usually gets up at 1 a.m. and it was 7. Went to check on her right away and she was lying in bed moaning in pain and was kind of out of it. Despite her protestations (they don't have TV at a hospital! Huh?), I insisted on having the nurses call a non-emergency ambulance so there were no fire engines, sheriffs and lights and sirens. They were there in 5 minutes. Mom was hopping mad but too weak to protest much. Luckily the ER is literally one block away.

The doctor diagnosed her with back muscle spasms due to her weakening condition. She is around 80 pounds now with no muscle mass to support her core or legs. Thus the remaining little muscles are spasming. She blames it on the caregiver two person lift but that is not it. It's her deteriorating condition.

She's too frail and thin now for any narcotics or muscle relaxers according to the Dr. He opted, and she agreed to, Lidocaine injections at the affected spot in her back. He said it was safe as it has no systemic affect on her system. I held her hand while she screamed at three injections. The burning going in from the needle was pretty bad as he warned us.

He prescribed Lidocaine external patches to apply to her back at 12 hour intervals. Mom didn't want them as that would require her to sign up for a med passer person at her AL for around $900 a month. She told me she doesn't want to spend her money THAT way. I said that it was for that purpose, to take care of her. It's going to be what it has to be. I signed her up for visiting physician and nurse practitioner too. It will lessen my stress as it is impossible to get her to a doctor with her stubborn attitude. They were telling me that as her primary doc (she saw once) retired last summer they would have to release her AKA kick her out as state law requires an AL patient sees a primary doc at least once a year.

I understand the need for that as these places don't want to get sued for malpractice. So, one less argument for now. She's telling everyone she can over and over, especially me that she wants to die before Christmas. She wants to be 'home' for Christmas. She told me she hopes that doesn't make me feel guilty. I looked her in the eye and said it doesn't make me feel one tiny, teeny bit guilty. I have nothing to feel guilty about. It makes me sad and gives me anxiety, no more, no less.

My guilt button is totally uninstalled after what I've been through these past 6+ years. It was curious to me as to why she thought I would feel guilty. Once a narcissist, always a narcissist, is my conclusion.

I do love her. She just drives me crazy, but with a doctor in place now I feel much better. Wish me luck tomorrow. The nurses did bring up a hospice evaluation. One step at a time.
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Thanks Book and OneDoorOpen,

I appreciate your replies. ((Hugs)) Yes, it seems we have entered a new realm regarding my mom's slow motion decline. Have no fear, she is too weak and frail and tiny to grab a steering wheel. Three years in a wheelchair with her objecting to any physical therapy has taken its' toll on her body. Plus she barely eats and is only 85 pounds. My poor brother is speechless at her comments regarding his Son in law.

Our son gets home from college on Wednesday. It's disturbing that she told my hubby that she wants to die before Christmas. That would make for a very bad Christmas, indeed. She just can't see how her attitude affects her family. There is no reasoning with her because she is ALWAYS right, always has been in her mind. She is a classic narcissist in every way.
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windy - so sorry for your experience with your mom and Book...what a scary experience that you had with your mom. Windy, can you talk with her at all and tell her you cant take her out for meals if she is going to be obnoxious? If not, you may just have to stop that activity! I know it is part of the disease (I have been told this over and over) but it is still so hard to hear and witness when your loved one acts this way! I am so very fortunate that my mom has never been a "mean" person...but there have been times when her filters are gone and she comments on how fat someone is or how bad they look (there is a volunteer at her asst lvg facility who was burned in a fire and still has some of the scars - unfortunately my mom will just stare at her but this is one of the times I am thankful she doesnt talk much any more - because she just stares! I have to work pretty hard to distract her, but that is minimal to what you must be facing!
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Windy, just be careful when taking her out. If her behavior is changing, towards anger, resentment and accusatory ... be extra careful. I still remember the last time we took mom in the car for a stroll or was it out to lunch? My brother was driving and my mom sat in the front passenger seat. I sat behind her. We were on the main road when she suddenly grabbed the steering wheel and pulled it sharply to her. She and my brother were fighting over the steering wheel. He tried to drive and peel her fingers off. I took off my seatbelt, reached between them and pulled at her hands. Once we got her to release her hands, my brother did a U-turn to go back home. I spent the rest of the ride leaning over mom and holding her hands in place. ... Just be careful.
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Book, that story is horrifying. Poor man and a shame the family wasn't more aware of what could happen or just didn't care. So sad and tragic, no matter how you look at it.

My mom has entered a new and awful stage. She is so mean and depressive comment wise I truly can't stand to be around her. We took her out to lunch today as we do every Sunday despite the air temperature being -25 below zero and driving there on slippery glaze ice roads. We're no spring chickens ourselves and it was not a treat. I would've preferred to stay home and hibernate, believe me!

We took her to lunch at a Mexican restaurant which is key to my story. I received an email on my phone from my brother in Germany. In an attachment was a video made by my niece's husband who happens to be Mexican American. It's a cute fun video about them getting a Christmas tree. I attempted to show my mom while we were waiting for our food to arrive. She told me to turn it of as she hates all Mexicans now and will not even look at that crap. (!!!!!) facepalm!!!!

I obviously couldn't discuss it there with her, but in the car I told her she is free to dislike one person who she blames all her troubles on, but to hate a whole race of people, including your grand daughter's husband is just wrong and nonsensical. She ranted at me that she is 80 and knows better now and I know nothing. I told her she was just wrong and she muttered under her breath about how stupid I am the rest of the ride. I can't stand who this person who used to be my mother has become. She is toxic.

When we were leaving, my husband told her that we will see her next Sunday when we pick her up for Christmas. She said she hopes to be dead by then.

I get to go see her alone on Wednesday. If she pulls this crap, I will walk away. It is affecting my health with back flares on Tuesday dreading being alone with her. It is awful. She is a narcissist on steroids.
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In the news of a 73yr old man with dementia was shot by a cop around midnight. As I read the article, I couldn't help reflect when mom started sundowning (at the time I didn't know that was what it's called.) She always left the house after dark. We would spend hours looking for her, worried that she would get hit by the cars on the main road. It was a very stressful time. Eventually, dad installed those sliding locks on All the doors. Mom became violent often after that - because she couldn't leave the house. She would be banging on the door, turning the knob, and the lock but the door wouldn't open.

As I thought of this, I continued reading the article. Unfortunately, in my mind, the family were very blase about their father leaving at midnight for a 'stroll'. Oh my gosh! They knew he had dementia and were willing for him to 'stroll' on his own? It's night time. What if he 'got lost' or 'disoriented' and cannot find his way back home? They blamed the cop for 'murdering' their father.

I see both at fault - the cops and the family. Most of the posters comments were against the cop and only a very few wondered why the family thought it was okay for their dementia father to wander late at night.

I also remember mom would ONLY listen to my dad. She refused to listen to anyone other than him - because she remembers him, and not us. We were strangers to her. Dad was the only one who could calm her, control her... So, I feel soooo bad that the 73 yr old dementia man got shot because he refused to obey the cops orders to Stop, yet he kept walking towards them. I think the family is denial if they think it's completely 100% cops fault... There is just too many things that could have happened to their elderly father wandering outside that late at night. I mean, there are 2 men in that photo. One of them could have joined the elderly man in his 'midnight stroll'... This is just my take of the situation - basing it on my experience with violent, walking away mom.
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You know, that is a question I often ask myself. It has been another long day. I can't stop thinking about my aunt. She passed away two years ago and I keep blaming myself for her passing. Sometimes I get so emotional. And I am currently taking care of my grandmother who has a bad knee, not the best vision, and has hearing loss. etc. I miss the things we used to do together. Now she can hardly get around. I am staying with her 24/7 other than going to school. Sometimes everything gets to me because I am so worried about her. Today is one of those days I guess..
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Much to surprise,, i noticed that my sneakers fit right around the part of my ankle that gets sorest ( and is swollen).. today I work good low clogs and it is much better. So before I go back to work I am getting good low work clogs!! But that was agood idea Book!
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Pam, no comment or helpful advice since I've never experienced it. I never really thought about the learning to walk again. Maybe you need to visit one of those rehab place and ask to use their equipment that has 2 rails and you walk in the middle using hands to help guide you while using much of your weight on your legs walking. Or borrow one of your elderly relatives spare walking thingy. Sorry, I can't remember what it's called. I know hours from now, it'll pop in my head.... Walker!!!
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Personal whine,,, this learning to walk again is awful! I have been in a brace this week, able to take it off and walk "as tolerated".. youza! I apparently can;t tolerate as much as I thought I could.
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Book, so glad you had a good time AND a good meal at Denny's! we dont have one near us but I used to love to go there!
I love live performances...except when they are really bad..ugh! speaking of bad...they had an Elvis impersonator at my mom's asst lvg today...oh I ache now just thinking of how bad he was! older man, in a red stretchy jumpsuit with a cape and a black wig that resembled Elvis' hair at some point in his life...NO singing voice! he came with all this audio equipment and I was hoping for the best but it was very poor...hopefully, he does it for free and no one spent money to have him perform...sorry to be so "catty" but I cant sing but would have sounded better and wouldnt have swished my body around like he tried to!
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