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Yes its getting easier. Its the same conversation every time - same last night.

Pretty sure its hayfever hes got to be honest.
Sounds very much like it. Hardly serious.....

To be honest, he plays dull. Keeps asking me - so what can people drive around etc? Hes seen it on the news so he knows...

Llama - yes Dads illnesses seem to correspond with when hes feeling a little down to be honest. Able to walk around and get to betting shop and hes fine. Stuck in like he is now and hes ill.

You heard of old people who struggle on and make the most of they're final years. Go out and about in wheelchairs, do things when they've got terminal cancer etc.

Dad is the opposite. If he gets one sniffle he won't leave the house. The number of things hes cancelled in the past - I dont bother arranging things now because he just cancels. He thinks hes dying ALL THE TIME.

I've given up with the wheelchair - he wont listen. In the past I've had conversations like this:-
Me: So Dad cricket on sunday?
Dad: Oh no I cant walk to get into the ground.
Me: No worries, I can book a parking space inside, and we'll take you're wheelchair. Sorted.
Dad: Oh there'll be nowhere to sit with the wheelchair.
Me: Umm yes I can safely say there will be - its the law. They have to provide disabled facilities.
Dad: No they don't. They won't want someone in the way with a wheelchair. Its too difficult with all this messing around.

(Bear in mind this is a stadium where the cricket is - holds 12000 people, yet the games we go to see you're lucky if there are 2000 there. Its NOT busy)
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Wifes mother is not the sharpest tool in the shed we always joke. BUT shes doing well. Understands its serious and listens to advice from us.... Better than we ever expected her to be.

Dad, on the other hand, seems to not listen to the news, not listen to me, decide his own policies, make decisions to suit himself. It has highlighted to me how difficult he is.

Its not so much hes old and doesn't understand. Its more like he gets an idea in his head, thinks he knows it all, and just won't listen to anyone else.
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paul: Good gosh. I see right through how your dad plays it. I wonder if he thinks a wheelchair would make him look "old?" I know this one lady on government assistance who will NEVER use a bus ~ doesn't even have an auto mind you. I can picture her saying that a wheelchair would make her look old.
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Oh yes Dad doesnt consider himself "old" unless it suits him...

With Dad his life is all about "don't make a fuss". Its weird. He wants to be the grey man that no-one sees. So wheelchair - everyone can see him and look at him. Its "fuss"

Hes scared stiff that someone would notice hes "different" and come and speak to him.

I remember his 80th birthday VERY WELL which highights it a bit. Son was 11 at the time. We'd booked a nice family meal. Son was excited he'd bought Grampy a "balloon in a box" with "Happy 80th" on it.

So we have the meal. Get Dad to open cards and box. Balloon pops out - he stuffs it back in like lightening all the time eyes darting around seeing if anyone had seen. Brother took the box and he snapped "WHATEVER YOU DO - DO NOT GET THAT OUT HERE AND CAUSE A SCENE!"

Of course, son burst into tears, wife just sat there open-mouthed. The "scene" would probably have just been the waitress coming over and saying "Oh happy birthday". Dad did not care- HE DID NOT WANT A "SCENE".

So I took Dad home, family went home separately. Got in he said "I don't want this stupid thing, put it in the bin". I protested he grabbed it, popped it, and stuffed it in the bin. Never told my wife this.

My wife has never forgotten this and I can't blame her. I can safely say we won't be going out for his 90th. To be honest, my son never bothered with Grampy after this either. Dad doesnt seem to give a monkeys....
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Chortle! - my niece sent my mother one of those balloons, Paul - it shot out of the box like a rocket and my poor mother nearly crapped herself. Also, being a girly version, this one came complete with stars and glitter and I was hoovering it out of the carpet for months.

But mother being mother said to Niece, on the phone later, "oh thank you darling, what a lovely surprise!"

I do think they should come with a clear warning label.
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Snap. Wouldn't wear hearing aides (made her look old). Just hated the welcome home balloon (fuss). Didn't like flowers (mess).

Few TIAs later & seem to enjoy flowers & balloons. Well... As long as she can choose the vase or where they get displayed.

Balloons are the very opposite control. Wobbly unstable unpredictable fun.

PS BUT a lovely gift from an 11 yr old - shame.
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I think this is a generational/cultural thing, Paul. Not wanting fuss, wanting to remain anonymous, not calling attention to oneself...

My mother wouldn't get pedicures (my sister in law wanted to do a "spa day" for her birthday one year)...my mom said sitting in one of those high up chairs, everyone would be looking at her. Touch of paranoia, perhaps, as well.
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Paul,

My dad was very kind and loving but he didn’t like a fuss over him until he got much older. Then once in awhile he allowed me to purchase something for him. Growing up his family couldn’t waste a penny due to being so poor. So, daddy did saw money being spent on him as being frivolous.

With my kids though, God bless my dad, it was a totally different ball game. He absolutely adored my daughters! They loved him. He was a giant teddy bear around my girls. He loved anything they ever made for him or bought him. His eyes would light up as soon as my girls walked into the room. It was so very sweet to witness. My girls have precious memories of him.

Daddy grew up in a rural part of Florida near Panama City Beach. Their lives were about hard work and being involved in their church.

Daddy’s parents were quite strict. They took the Bible literally, ‘Spare the rod, spoil the child.’ So, they didn’t receive lots of attention or fussing over. He simply wasn’t accustomed to it.
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What a horrible thing to do to anyone, much less an 11 yo. I can understand the "don't want a fuss" or attention drawn to oneself, but for someone who is ALL ABOUT me me me me... seems rather backwards. Then again...

I'm sure your son remembers the whole thing. He was obviously excited to give this to gramps, but unfortunately he gave it to Grumps instead! We should post his picture online as the new Grumpy Cat (now in re-reading that, it would be an insult to Grumpy Cat.) Hopefully you all made sure it wasn't what he did that was the problem, although it is hard to make that clear sometimes. The hurt will remain, in some form.

Countrymouse - thanks for that! I got a chuckle out of "my poor mother nearly crapped herself.", but it was also very sweet of her to graciously thank your niece. Something popping out like that would be enough to scare many people, never mind older people! But it is the thought that counts and your mother did the right thing by thanking her! Of course you get the worst of it, cleaning up. Certainly thank her as well, but recommend not sending "surprise" gifts to people might be in order, especially those that require a lot of cleanup!

My former MIL was the polar opposite. Her mother died when she was 15, so she had to help raise the family. As a result, she LIVED for the day she would be a grandmother. That's fine, but she took it to such an extreme that she was insulted if we were not there for EVERY holiday (even piddly stupid ones), every weekend and more! She went overboard (unfortunately her own daughter chose not to have kids, so we were it.) It was fine when the kids were little and they got to visit and get tons of crap (mostly throw away junk), but as they got older, it was stifling! My own mother appreciated having family when we could get together, but wasn't obsessed by it. I only have the one grandchild and wish I could visit more often, but it is a long stressful drive, and having been curtailed by finances as well, it wasn't happening often. Now... UGH!
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NeedHelpWithMom:
"So, daddy did saw money being spent on him as being frivolous."

Although there are many factors in this mindset, a lot for this generation revolves around the depression, WWII, etc, having to scrimp, reuse, struggle to get by. My parents were of that generation. My mother talked of her mother making clothes out of burlap bags (is this akin to walking uphill to school, both ways, in the snow, with no shoes???) Once my dad got situated in his career, they had the good life. However they/she still penny-pinched, not extreme, but certainly saved. Once we were all out of the house, they sold their house, got a place in FL for winter, bought a 55+ condo up here. Still saved. Mom's big thing was shopping "bargains" at places like TJX and Marshall's, "brand" names at discount. She would rave about her "bargains" and got a lot of compliments for her outfits, etc, but seriously, what a waste of money! This went on for YEARS, and she kept everything. She didn't see it that way - she'd be one of those who would clip coupons and get "sale" items, etc, but the amount of money she spent on clothes, shoes, handbags, jewelry was ridiculous! I had NO idea how bad that was until we moved her to MC and had to clear out her place!!! Every closet stuffed overfull, bags, boxes, totes, hope chests AND 4-5 large porta-closets!!! Most of the clothes went to GoodWill (and tax guy said we couldn't deduct them without appraisal), 4 LARGE boxes of shoes were finally taken out of my garage by YB, still have the handbags and jewelry (mostly costume) to deal with. Imagine how much more she'd have had if she hadn't bought all that or sold what she was no longer wearing/couldn't fit into!

She would often call a gift a waste of money. I arrived at her condo one day, talking with OB about the robotic cat he bought/sent, complaining that it hadn't arrived. The delivery came as I was in the parking area, so I took it to her. I predicted that she would say what a waste of money and that he should have sent it to me instead (I'm the crazy cat lady, she was never a pet person - only just tolerated us having a dog as kids.) Sure enough, that's exactly what she did say!! She was fascinated by what it could do, but still thought it was a waste of money! I have recommended it to others who have a LO missing their pets - it is pretty nice and cute!

Anyway, it likely is having lived through extreme financial duress that lead to this kind of mindset. Now too many people spend every penny and then some - they could learn something about being a bit more frugal and saving for the future! "Experts" recommend we have at least 6 months of expenses set aside, for when hard times hit - clearly the majority have not heeded that advice!
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Disgustedtoo,

Stupid auto correct. Should read, Daddy saw money spent on him as being frivolous. Yes, our parents and grandparents lived through the depression and they learned to be frugal. I can appreciate that.

Daddy wasn’t materialistic. He didn’t yearn for anything that he did not have. I believe that is why I am not materialistic. I appreciate what I have but I don’t yearn for more. I have never been a ‘keep up with the Jones’ kind of person.

I learned that relationships are what matter the most, experiences over things. Daddy spent his hard earned money on important things like our education and things that truly mattered. We did receive birthday and Christmas gifts. My dad’s family was too poor for that. When he grew up holidays and birthdays were just another day for him.

I did learn to save money because of him. Oh, and I learned to never quit a job before I had another one.

Daddy left no debts when he died. He wasn’t a spendthrift. He wasn’t cheap. He believed in quality but he never wasted money.

You’re absolutely right in saying those were good examples for us to learn. I love that daddy set that example for us. I got it. My brothers did not. My brothers do waste money and don’t care about the environment like I do.

I remember hearing about those sack dresses. I love how resourceful that generation was out of necessity. My mom said that my grandma made those for them.

They recycled and upcycled before it became trendy! We need to get back to that. There is too much waste.

Things were so different back then. It was a different mindset.
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paul: Oh, my gosh. That was so sad about the balloon in the box that your son gave your dad and him acting so badly. Good grief - that makes me angry. "Old until it suits him" - oh, my!😀😀
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It makes me so sad when people say how much their kids love their grandparents etc. My kids will be devastated when their gran goes. When their grampy goes I really dont think they'll even care. ITs so sad.

Thing is Dad does not care. They are just an annoyance to him. I hope I never get like that.

The balloon thing was awful. Even if you really don't like it you don't say so for the kids sake. This "dont make a fuss" thing is pathetic too. He'd rather upset his grandson than have 2 mins of someone in a restaurant looking over at him.
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I've given up on the money thing with Dad....

Family were very poor. I'll admit. Coalminers in the welsh valleys. Very poor.
Thats his excuse - "we were poor so I don't want to waste it now".

BUT its like monopoly money. Its there because its there, not for some reason at all.

Thing is his pension is not going to stop and he saves money from that. Why have thousands in the bank?

He annoys now when he says "I'm no keeping it I'm going to give it to you both now". Then he gets cold feet and gives us £100 each. This has happened probably 20 times now.

Remember the "brothers got no car so I'm going to help him out to buy one". Bottled that and gave him £300 and said "you can get something with that". yeh right.
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Paul,

I didn’t mean to make you sad by talking about my dad and our daughters. I’m sorry. Forgive me.

My children were blessed with my dad. My dad died when they were young.

With my husband’s dad, oh my gosh...he was polar opposite of my father!

My sweet mother in law died from non Hodgkin’s lymphoma and my father in law introduced a woman to us literally a couple of weeks after her death.

We certainly did not begrudge him being with another person in the future but it was too soon for us to welcome someone new.

We needed to grieve and he tried to force this woman down our throats. She was nothing like my sweet mother in law. She was pushy and self centered.

She wanted everyone to cater to her while we were grieving. It was awful. When we didn’t bow down to her, she told my father in law to choose between her or us!

He chose her and threw his son, me and his sweet granddaughters away like yesterday’s trash.

I was devastated when my oldest daughter asked me why did grandpa forget her? She was devastated and confused by his rejection. My youngest daughter was a toddler so she doesn’t remember him at all.

In time, my children forgot about him because he wasn’t a part of their life. My father in law moved far away to another state to live with this woman. They never married.

She refused to marry him because she wanted to leave her money from her deceased husband to her children and her grandchildren. She didn’t want to do a prenup to handle her finances.

She only wanted to spend my father in law’s money. She quit her job when she moved in with him. Thank God my father in law kept some money to pay for an assisted living facility to live in now.

When my mother in law died my father in law inherited lots of money from her. My mother in law was an only child and her parents left her a large sum of money. So, he basically used his in laws money to support his companion’s posh lifestyle. They traveled and lived a good life. It was weird, they both wore their wedding rings from their previous marriage and pretended they were married. He wanted her to marry him. I do believe that he loved her and did not want to be alone in life.

After this woman died my father in law moved back to Louisiana and out of the blue calls my husband.

My husband said to me, “He hasn’t been a father in 25 years. What makes him think that he can enter our lives now?

I told my husband that I would support whatever he decided to do but I will not have a relationship with him because he hurt me and our children too much. I don’t wish him any harm but I have no desire to see him.

We told our children if they chose to visit him we would support them. He didn’t ask for them to visit. He asked my husband, “How is your family?” He didn’t even call us by our names. We were nameless to him!

Our children look at their grandpa as a stranger because he never cared about any part of their lives. He missed out on his beautiful grandchildren. They are not interested in seeing him. They would feel awkward. We understand and would never make them feel guilty about not being involved in his life.

I forgive my father in law but I not the least bit interested in seeing him. My youngest daughter who is about to graduate from her university said to me, “How can I miss someone that I never knew? I wish I could have had him as grandpa growing up but he didn’t want us.” It broke my heart!

It could have been so different if he would have allowed us time to ourselves to grieve for my mother in law. Then we would have welcomed this woman into our lives but she was pushy and demanding and not the least bit respectful of our need to mourn our loss of a dear mother, mother in law and grandmother.

My husband’s father allowed her to be pushy. She controlled his life. She tried to control ours. She wanted to be treated like a queen. She was a complete stranger to us! It was so weird. Family relationships can become complicated.
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paul: Oh, I didn't mean to make you sad. My daughter didn't have ANY grandfathers! I was only 20 when my dad died. I got married at 24, had daughter at 25 - bad man who kicked us out so that grandfather for some reason had nothing to do with her. Married again to good man with alcoholic father.
That balloon story - he should be ashamed.
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I was at work today - the folk you meet!

The Blond: this whole virus thing has been SO HARD for me. I've wanted to visit my Mother & was told ALL these rules. I just NEEDED to come & see her. I come EVERY day. She is only allowed ONE visitor so no-one else in the family has been able to come. That's so hard for ME hearing Mother talk about the other people she would like to see.
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Could make a TV show - Selfish and Denial..

The Old Gentleman: Notes by Physio Pt refused to use a gait aide, says 'it makes him look old'. Reports he's refused one for 20 years (underlined). Pt age 91.

🤣🤣🤣
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Who really will say - Oh, yes - I cannot wait to use a walker, cane or wheelchair. Please no offense to those who do. That may be me soon.
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I know. Like no one says, hey I want to get grey hair 🙃 (although it's still a trend for 20 somethings). My SIL started going grey - said I just don't want to. I said well that's life - you'll have A. learn to like it or B. dye it. She said no, I just don't want it.

She thought of her own choice C. plucking each one out instead.

I figure you may not like like it but if you can accept it & get what you need (walking stick, glasses, hearing aides - whatever helps you) then good. If you deny it, you'll miss out or make life harder, not hearing phone calls, not reading, will fall more.

Btw, option C resulted in a growing bald spot. We still laugh about that 😂. Hair dye became acceptable afterall.
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Beatty,

I am ahead of the game. I decided to go grey a couple of years back. I like my silver hair. I do need a haircut though!
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I love silver & will be joining the silver foxette club too 🤩
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Beatty,

I really want a few blue streaks. Is that crazy at my age? I am 64.

We have to ask Paul if he has any grey hair due to his dad. My kids contributed to my grey! Hahaha
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My blue streaks are still in & I love them. Do it! I'm blaming this crazy Covid world for my risky look.
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Beatty,

I just may do it. 😊
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All - no its ok you all didnt make me sad :-)

Its just so sad to see Dad how he is. He should enjoying his twilight years, makinh the most of it, having fun with his grandkids etc.

Instead hes totally self obsessed with himself....
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Paul, how are you going? And your wife and children? In people in our own personal lockdown, I am seeing reactions I never expected to see, very difficult to cope with. It might even make it easier for you to draw the line in the sand with Dad, but I hope that things are not too difficult within your own family. Lots of love, and to the others on this site (irrespective of their hair colouring preferences).
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Tonights phonecall I think highlighted again the problems that Dad has or thinks hes has.

For about the 10th time in a row now the call started off as "I've been so ill". Hes got hayfever FGS. And "I'm so ill its making me depressed". Yes its not nice, but there are people out there dying of cancer let alone Covid... Sometimes he makes me so mad hes such a moaner.

If I hear about my brother, his lack of job, no money one more time I'm going to scream.... Hes 50 years old. How on earth my 85 year old Dad thinks hes got to mollycoddle him and worry for him I'll never know. Hes lost his job, it happens, get another one. If you've got zero saving (I know he earns a fair bit) then its your fault..... Deal with it.

Oh and if Dad mentions child support one more time. Thats his bugbear - he doesnt think fathers should have to pay child support. His attitude - "well they live with the mother so she should be looking after them!". Crazy I know.

Hes saying now is "hope those women don't expect him to pay now hes not working". Jeez. I don't know how it works - perhaps you don't pay if you're income drops? I guess not. I dunno if it I think I'd be more upset at losing my job and not being able to pay towards MY kids... Really had to bite my tongue....

Different worlds. Most definitely not one my Dad and brother live in.
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margaret - yeh its tough for everyone I guess.

Its been hard because of wifes knee. I've been working and shes had to do childcare pretty much - energetic 6 year old.. Shes a bit down at the moment because shes even more stuck in the house. She can drive from next week so I think shes even looking forward to a supermarket visit!

BUT, I'm still working and getting paid, as is wife. We worked out with everything cancelled - ice skating, gymnastics, ballet etc and no driving to work we're something like £500 a monthe better off lol!

Yes not missing visiting Dad at all I'm afraid. I am dreading every phone call too. I sort of knew he'd be like this.

Its even tougher I know for the elderly who live alone. I get that. I try to be understanding with him but hes so tough to deal with it. I shouldn't compare - but wifes mum is the same. Stuck at home, shes lonely too, and misses the gradkids like crazy (at least dad doesnt miss them) but shes doing ok and understands the situation.
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NeedHelp - I've got LOADS of grey hair. Have had for years.... Still at 52 I've got all my own hair, no bald patches, or receding just Grey and white mainly.

A few years ago, for Glastonbury, I used the spray in stuff to do my hair with blue, pink and green stripes. It was cool BUT it took a week or two to wash out and I had to go into my clients office to important meetings like that on the tuesday..... :-)
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