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Paul,

That is unfortunate that he feels that way. As for his friend with Alzheimer’s, placement becomes necessary for certain people. His wife and children want him to receive proper medical care. Not everyone can do caregiving. When it goes on and on people get worn out. That’s what happened to me. I just couldn’t do it anymore.
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NHWM: Oh, thank you SO much! You've just made my night. You're a very kind and generous person. I think that you don't give yourself enough credit for you are a lovely person!
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Llama - I remember he was proud when I went to college....

These days though there is an undercurrent that I work in an office so it can't be that hard. I must be a manager (I'm not!) so "one of them". Whereas brother does manual work so he identifies with that. EVERY time I speak to Dad I hear reports about how hes working 12 hour shifts etc. Other people who've spoken to him have noticed he always mentions brother and not me.

I remember him asking him about "on call/standby" once which just about sums his attitude up. "What you get paid to just sit there for nothing? Wow thats easy". Of course, two weeks later after I'd been up for 36 hours straight -"They expect you to work in the middle of the night at short notice. No way would I do that". AH HA now you understand,
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NeedHelp - Of course. Its appropriate in a lot of cases. Not in my Dads head. He'll never change.
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Narcissists divide and conquer. That is why your brother's accomplishments and things he is doing, are thrown in your face. I'm positive that the same is happening to your brother. Your not there to see it. Your brother isnt going to tell you. It is a way to knock you down a peg. Keep you off balance, and tell you - you arent good enough. Hes manipulating brother too. Yor just not there to see it. Hes got you both jumping thru hoops like a circus show.

It's a way to mess with your self esteem. A form of control. A form of abuse, a huge form of manipulation. A way to try to alter reality to his skewed way of thinking. You know different. He doesnt get to change reality, and what you know to be true. He's not the authority on reality! He doesnt get to rewrite it to suit him. And you know he is good at that!

It is to make you doubt yourself. A way to make you try harder, do more. Try to please him in some way. Go the extra mile to prove you are good enough. STOP FALLING FOR IT.

Tell him, yea brother is good at that. Yea he's better at it than me. He works harder than me. He's got the better job, the bigger house, the better whatever etc. Agree with your dad. It will throw him off balance. He wants you off balance. Agree with everything he says. He's not expecting that. He's not getting the annoyed, hurt, frustrated, or any type of reaction from you he wants. He'll let it go then. That tactic didnt get you wound up like he wanted. He'll move on to something else then.

Dad- since the other son is so good at it, I'll let him do it. Walks away. Brother better take care of that. Hes better at it than I am. Bye. Brother is so good at this it's his job now. I wont do it how you want. Ill let him do it Bye bye. Just show no emotion saying it.

Then game will get old. Narcs try to say things to see what nerves they can hit. Ok this didnt work, let me say that. No let's try another. Bingo I hit a nerve! Haha this is fun. Ill use that again in future. Stop falling for it. No emotion is the best reaction.

I used to watch my sibling do the hunt for the raw nerve in my mom. She would keep chatting away calmly, and saying things or bring up things in the past, till my mom would explode in anger. Then she knew, I hit a big nerve with that comment. I can use that again to manipulate or divide and conquer in future. I had to remind myself to be on full alert around her. Not take conversations for normal conversations. Watch everything she did/said. Shes like a shark looking for weakness in her prey.

Try it next time you talk to him. Watch how convos get turned into neg comments, or watch how he chats and maneuvers the conversation around. He will keep at it, until he hits a nerve and they explode in anger or get upset.
It boggles my mind how they their minds work. The rest of us arent programmed like that. He thinks what can I get out of this today. People arent sport. But to a narcissist it is all about manipulation. Everything they live and breathe is about that. He also learned that in his youth. He watched someone else do that and started young. Hes not gonna change. You have to be on full alert at every interaction.
The best manipulation in a convo I've ever seen was a interview with charles manson and I think it was Diane Sawyer or another reporter in prison. He morphs into diff characters to manipulate and rattle her in a matter of minutes. He played a wise sage, a cult guru, a poor little boy me, a dangerous angry con that could kill her in a flash, then a nice guy etc. I've never seen it done so fast. I dont think she knew she was being played, but she kept her cool. That's how he manipulated all those people. Most of us arent tuned into that. We take people for face value. We cant with everyone. Good luck.
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Jasmina,

Your words are so true. The fact remains that it is completely futile to try to respond to irrational and selfish people. All that happens is by having a conversation with them is that they will use and twist whatever is said as ammunition to use against the other person who becomes their target.
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Paul,

You are one step ahead by knowing how he is. He won’t change because he is completely irrational. You deserve a life with your family.
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All - yeh I think you're right. It never ceases to amaze me how many different things that Dad tries or approaches he takes. Like I said before - he wears me out!

Last few years I have begun to notice that 99% of what he does is so he can get something out of the deal. Really its eye-opening. And he does devote 100% of his energy to it (which I've realised is why he doesn't bother with my kids - got no time hes too busy getting me to do things). Its just crazy.

I'll be honest, I can't even remember the last time Dad did or said something nice without there being something in it for him.

His latest for example. "I'm going to start giving away my money now rather than when I die". Won't happen. Hes said this about 20 times. He'll give me £100 or something and he knows I can't really say no because this is the start of the big "inheritance giveaway". Then that'll be it but its hanging there like a bribe....
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Jasmina - I reckon my old man could go up against Charles Manson lol. He likes everyone to think hes this sweet old man who gets a bit confused sometimes, doesn't do it on purposes. (This is his thing when I call him out on what hes been up to - "Oh I'm so sorry I didn't realise I was doing that. I get so confused sometimes".

Yeh right. He sharp as a knife and amazes me how clever some of his tricks are sometimes!
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Paul,

Some elderly have a special talent for rewriting history, right?

As for getting something out of things, once when I was first married my brother and his wife pretended to be coming over for a visit. I immediately knew their visit wasn’t a social call because he they never did that.

Nevertheless, I put on a pot of coffee and set out some dessert for us to enjoy. It didn’t take long for my brother to ask for money. When we told him that we could not give him any money he and his wife promptly left before the coffee was finished brewing.

As they were leaving I asked them to please stay for coffee and dessert and they declined. Obviously, all they wanted was cash and didn’t care about spending time with us.
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NeedHelp - Wow the thing with your brother is crazy..... Thats the sort of thing my brother would do as well.
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Paul,

It’s because they don’t value what is important. Some people always want to take the easy way out. My husband and I went to school to obtain an education and worked hard for what we have. No one handed anything to us. We didn’t ask for anything. My brothers always asked for money. My parents freely gave it to them. So they don’t have a true appreciation of anything because they didn’t earn anything on their own.

I give to good causes. We are not selfish. Sometimes people need help getting over a hump and I have empathy for them. When people take others for granted and expect handouts, then I do have a problem with it.
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Hes on a roll this week again. Seems to get like that.... Its my wifes birthday this weekend - to be honest I wish he wouldn't bother.

Can guarantee he'll send her a card with £10 in. Then it'll be a case "well she didn't phone me to thank me for the money". That works for him - hes happy to spend the money to get someone to do this.

Sounds ungrateful but shes not going to ring him. Too much has happened and hes just trying to assert control again.
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Paul,

I don’t blame your wife. You are right to say that he should just let her be. She deserves to be at peace. So do you. Enjoy your wife’s birthday with her.
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paul: His thought process is off. I am glad that he was proud of you going off to college. Now today I could say to him that I am typing with dilated eyes (true and a bit off topic), but I press on. Dad isn't a "Working Man's Hero" that is for sure. YOU deserve tons of respect and I am giving it to you!
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No need to call to thank him, they make inexpensive thank you cards that could be sent. That way, at the very least, he gets his thank you, so no reason to complain.

He's "old school" and that's how we all did it 'back in the day'.
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How about your missus gives the cash to your daughter who ‘gets so little from you that it was a nice way to pass it on’. It might stop W from using it as toilet paper.
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I thought this "string" reached 1000 comments a few days ago (is this a record for the AgingCare forum??), but now it's indicating only 971. What happened?
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1001 lol.

Wifes birthday Sunday - she wants to go out. Dad is "expecting" a set in stone visit. Doesnt need anything.

Hes not going to be happy.
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"Hes not going to be happy." - you left out the word 'EVER'
(goes without saying at this point - easier to just type 'SSDD')

1001 - dalmations???
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Wife trumps Dad.

For birthdays in my lot, once we had left home it was a simple phone call on the day. Those that live near will have a arvo tea or call in the next weekend. No stress if people have other plans, sometimes moves to next weekend.

But DH's side are super into celebrating birthdays & all holidays. Not all sibs have partners or in-laws to consider so it's still all original family which as a DIL feels too much at times. DH always wants to keep all happy & we often compromise - within reason. DH has had to put his foot down many a time when they assumed he would fit into their plans (over plans with me & his own kids) for his own birthday & even father's Day! (They prioritised celebrating for his dec'd Father over DH celebrating with HIS own children!). I mean, come on!!!

As the DIL I can tell you when this happened to fall on MY birthday one year & they STILL thought it better to put my FIL first (who I dearly loved & miss) things got rocky. DH still was trying to please all & his sisters asked why I didn't mind moving my dinner to an other night? *Like your Dad - he thinks HE comes first*. A light globe must have gone on for DH & he replied his wife's birthday came first, then his own Father's Day, then his Dad's. Fwew! Little does he know what test our marriage was under right then! Others may say I was selfish for putting myself over his family but I saw it as still being overconnected, smothered, controlled & kept in his childhood - but he chose his own brood that day.

Just calmly state what you are doing - leave no room for his arguments. "Hey Dad it's wife's b-day Sunday so I am taking her out. I'll visit you next week instead".

Aways remember HIS unhappiness is HIS to own. He could choose to be like my Dad - wish a happy b'day & say I'll enjoy seeing you on the next visit. My FIL too -gracious.
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Paul,

Hope your wife had a lovely birthday!
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Paul - your dad couldn't be more self-centered if he tried. For someone else's birthday, that person needs to visit HIM? Has he declared himself the center of the universe? Probably. In his universe, everyone spins around him. Haha....

Happy birthday to your wife. She has a very nice guy for a husband. :D

That reminds me of something. My MIL gave us a lot of nice furniture when we moved into our first home. I made a comment to my husband that his mom gave us nice things. He said, "Of course, she only gave you the best, starting with me." Haha....
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Polar - oh yes there is no-one in the world apart from Dad. He is old and he needs me and everyone else has to understand this (hes said this).

He was not happy. Went from normal to waify croaky voice ("but I've been so ill"). then it was "oh no oh no, oh dear, oh dear". I'll be honest it was the type of reaction you get if someone had died. I though sod this and said "got to go speak soon".

Wife was OK. I don't tell Dad the truth enough. I do let her down sometimes because I've got the courage to tell Dad "NO".

Hes yet to mention "so surprised you're wife didn't call me to thank me for the card and money?". He will. Its just another way to have a dig at her.....

I'll be honest, wife wants nothing to do with him. Fair enough. Up to her. Hes done plenty to deserve this to be honest. And, end of the day, hes my Dad not hers so she has ZERO she owes him in my book.

In fact, I'd be scared if they ever did meet ever again. Dad is so inappropriate, ignorant and downright rude these days that I KNOW with minutes she'd have lost it with him!
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paul: Has he cried wolf 1,001 too many times? Sorry to be unkind sounding but I saw someone else used that number analogy. Please - no ill intent meant.💞
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"got to go speak soon"

Good job, Paul. Yes, you did it right. Get off the phone when he starts his act. Without an audience, he can't perform.

Remember to do the same next time and every time.
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Llama - ha ha no someone commented this thread had 1000 posts lol.
Although he probably has cried wolf that many times!
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polarbear- yes I felt so good afterwards. It was SO obvious what he did. Changed in the blink of an eye because it didn't work out how he wanted!

I just don't have the energy to put up with his little digs to be honest. Its constant. He implies I am awful for not visiting him because hes "so ill".

Like Im sure I've said before I've made my peace with the fact that I can;'t help. I'm not a doctor. It really hit home, as I'm sure I mentioned, that he take 1/2 dose of his painkillers (contrary to GP advice) because he believe his stupid friend (rather than the GP) who said "oooh you're going to get addicted to them I saw a programme on TV). Can't be that bad then!!!!!

Spookily, last night he didn't even mention his knees. He does this - calms down then goes back to normal.
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paul: Oh, okay. Crying wolf that many times may be not part of The Greatest Generation in general, e.g. while some elders do complain, I do understand what you've had to endure.
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Llama - Yeh hes not good for crying wolf.
Had it all. Made up chest pains. Multiple ambulances. 100s of GP callouts.

GP now won't come out. Ambulances I'm sure hes on a list somewhere.
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