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So hes still going on about it.... Me not letting him have my wifes mobile number....

I have spoken to him about his OTT escalation last week but I don't think its sunk in to be honest. I just know that next time he can't get hold of me for 30 mins hes just going to try and call my wife. And he'll keep calling her if she doesn't answer.

As I've said, my wife keeps away from him, and I can't blame her. He doesn't realise what hes done in the past and is oblivious to it all and genuinely thinks that hes never upset anyone. It won't end well if wife is in work one day and gets 20 calls from Dad....

Should I stick to my guns and say no you don't need wifes number?

I've tried to explain to him, there could be MANY reasons why he can't get hold of me. Escalating to emergency levels within hours is not good. If, in the unlikely event, I ever experience a major issue and end up in hospital etc. then I'm sure someone will let him know at an appropriate time.

Off to Spain in week or so. Mobile signal is a bit ropey. Can guarantee he'll be in full on panic mode until I phone him when I get there.....

Am I only the one who gets this? Constant badgering/worrying/flapping from an elderly parent. Sometimes I just think Jeez just give me some space and leave me alone sometimes.

I certainly did the other week when I was ill - last thing I wanted was to worry about how upset Dad was because he didnt have the latest update.
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?!?!?!?!!?

Why are you even thinking about giving your wife's number to your father? Why is this even a question?

You have told your father that you will not give him the number, correct? "No, Dad, I'm not giving you her number." Like that. In words. Yes or no?
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CM - Because he asked me and keeps on asking me. Hes now asked about 10 times. His argument is that he needs it just in case he can't get hold of me. This harks back to last week...

Correct I have told him no there is no need for him to have her number.

To be honest, if he ended up ringing her multiple times because he was too impatient to wait for me to call him, it would REALLY pee off my wife.
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Paul. Have you said to him: "I am not going to give you [wife's name]'s number."?

Not, there's no need. Not, she's very busy. Not excuse, reason, counter question, alternative suggestions, evasion.

I am not going to give you her number. Like so. Yes? If not, do. That is what you say. Repeat in a mirror, if it helps: "I am not going to give you her number."
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CM is so right on this.

Stay strong on not sharing wife’s number. He has yours and access to brother. No one needs more than that. Don’t justify. Just say “you have the numbers you need, Dad. You have been using my number incessantly. I am not putting wife on the receiving end of that.” Every time he asks, just repeat. This is a relatively easy opportunity for you to exercise your “independence from Dad’s disapproval” muscles. And once you have a win under your belt, saying no will get easier.

Why do you tell him when you are going out of town? Or what you spend your money on? He has proven that he can’t handle that type of info, for whatever reason.

Some people, due to their personality or their conditioning, feel like they have to share everything going on in their world with their parents. Maybe earlier in life, their parents were helpful and it was nice to talk to them. Maybe their parents just conditioned them toward wanting approval. Either way, though, if parents get to the point where your father seems to be, the information flow has to become one way, for your own sanity. This is hard, no doubt, and will take practice. But, removing your life’s events from his cauldron of rumination will make your life better in the future.

Little victories are so important... the phone number is one of these. Good luck to you.
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Ha ha its easier said than done with him. Remember hes had a lifetime of having his own way and things working out how he wants them. And a family who, in general, have enabled him.

Past experience has shown he wont let it go. If there is something he doesn't like he'll want to know why. Yes I have tried in the past not to argue back with reasons.

Two days later he'll phone again, then again, then again. It'll go on for weeks- why not? whats the reason? etc etc etc. then he'll escalate it if thats not working. I'll get "woe is me", "all I want is the number for an emergency". His latest then is to tell tales to my brother who will then facebook me telling me how awful I am being to Dad and should remember hes old and he brought us up.

Honestly, he absolutely hates not being in control and getting what he wants. In his head, he has a valid reason for needing my wifes no. I know full well its all about him and hes thinking he'll have another way to contact me if he needs to.

But yes I know I should just answer NO. But it just wears me down at the moment....
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Easier said than done... How?

"I'm not giving you her number."
"I'm not giving you her number."

Saying it is literally all you have to do.

Why not?
Doesn't matter. I'm not giving you her number.
What if I need it?
I'm not giving you her number.
What if I can't get hold of you?
I'm not giving you her number.

You may get very *bored*. But, in all seriousness, it's not difficult is it?

You don't seem to realise that the reason your father whines and pushes and goes on and on is that he believes CORRECTLY that if he keeps it up he will get his own way. Stop proving him right. Say to him "I'm not giving you her number" and keep saying it.

Brother can say what he likes. The variation on the theme for use on him is "Dad's not getting her number."
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Give Dad a fake number that is never answered, or an emergency number, like APS, the local memory care facility, or a disconnected number.
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Paul - you need to end the conversation.

"I need your wife's number"
"No"
"what if i can't get ahold of you" - now the argument is starting - don't argue.
"I've already told you i'm not giving it to you. I'm not talking about this anymore. I have to go. Bye, i love you"

The reason he wins and wears you down is that you argue with him. Shut it down. Hang up. Who gives a rats AZZ what he or your brother think? Shut down both of them.
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Good answer, Kimber
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Paul,

I get it. My mom has done the same as your dad. Trust me it will stop if you stop feeding it. Yes, he has been conditioned to be the way he is. It takes work to reverse it but is possible. I’ve done it with mom and she lives me me! I heard it every single day. I had to do something about it.
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NeedHelp - OMG imagine the grief with someone living with you..... 24/7.

I've got to phone him tonight and it'll come up again. And then probably tomorrow.

I know you're all right of course but it just wears me down....
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My husband would not stand for it if his father behaved as does yours. "No" is a complete sentence but he does not want to accept that from you because he does not respect you as an adult and as a married man. Only you can change that dynamic!

Stop repeating yourself. Learn to say something like "Dad, we've talked about this and the answer is no." If he continues to badger you, end the conversation with "Dad, I'm hanging up now" and hang up the phone. If he calls back, let his call go to voicemail.

When we do manage to get away (very infrequent), my husband does not call his father. You are not 12 years old, and you do not need to check in with your father. What makes you think that you owe him your vacation time? How is your wife going to feel while she's in Spain wanting to enjoy your vacation and you're futzing with your dad?
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Paul: Do you ever wonder if dad forgot how to use a phone? OMG - my mother would drive me crazy when I called her from my home in Maryland to her home in Massachusetts. She scared me so bad because she would pick up the phone but wouldn't say hello! When I questioned her about it saying I'll have no option but to call 911 because I have to assume that you're on the floor. Her response - "I was getting situated." Say what?!!
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There are answering machines &/or caller ID for a reason.  After telling him NO and I'm hanging up now, hang up and do not pick up again if it is him. If a toddler wanted some candy right at suppertime, we tell him no, give a reason, then ignore, even if he throws a temper tantrum.  Good luck.
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NYD - You're not wrong here. Yes its as if sometimes he thinks I owe him some of my time. I could tell you the times hes said something like "yes thats fine you go away for the weekend, I'll be fine".

As if I'm asking for his permission!
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All went off a bit last night....

Not sure if I handled it correctly to be honest. I lost it and said "No you're not getting the number because, based on what you did last week, you'll abuse it and start hassling my wife". I also said, Im not letting you drag her into this and it'd would cause an argument if you did what you normally do.

So then I get the - Woe is me. "All I want is the number for emergencies. I would never phone her unless I really needed to". But he then also admitted he could use it to phone her for any health problems (shes a nurse remember).

No way Jose. Hes already upset his GP who won't come to visit him, ambulances won't come out. There is NO way hes using my wife to badger next.

Of course, as last week, hes told my brother. I'm getting facebook messages now about how I'm mean to Dad, how hes old and I'm making him worry about things, and why can't I just be nice to him. Brother now blocked on facebook- had enough.

This tittle tattle by Dad to brother seems to be his latest tactic. I do something he doesn't like so he gets brother on side to badger me too.

So can you divorce you're family? :-)
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Yes, you can divorce your family. Why is that funny?

Not to kick a man when he's down, but no you didn't handle it correctly. Instead of saying "you're not getting the number" you said "you're not getting the number because you are a proven nuisance."

Why did you need to tell him that?

ALL you are interested in is not giving him the number. The reasons and arguments are an irrelevance. You do not need to discuss them. So don't discuss them.

Is there anything you would enjoy talking to your Dad about? We're looking for changes of subject, is the point of that question.
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That is what narcissists do. If one idea doesnt work, go to the next, then the next then the next. It is a 2yr old tantrum in an adult body. I want what I want when I want it.
At every interaction watch how when he doesnt get his way, he will try another way.
You were right not to give out the number. He would use it to say hes sick, have a fall, an attack etc, to ruin your time alone.
Involving your brother is classic narc behavior. Divide and conquer. Hoping to control both you and him, and to make you feel guilt. Thereby controling you yet again. You need to work on the guilt. It will take time. Brush up on youtube vids on narcissistic behavior. Great ideas to stop it in its tracks. Good for you you didnt cave!!!!!
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CM - I know I should but it only seems fair to tell him why. I know I know hes winning because he knows if he keeps on....
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Jasmina. Yes hes exactly like that. In the past hes surprised me with the things hes tried to pull to get his own way. The thing with brother is really peeing me off. Hes worked out that brother is "on his side" so he gets him to contact me. Like you said divide and conquer.

We've had fake injuries, 999 calls the lot. Thing is though he must know hes done all this but seems to sweep in under the table and forget about it. Its like an elephant in the room he shoves in the closet quickly and never talks about again.

I think in all of this though it just hurts me how badly hes treated me last few years. I've been there for him and helped where I can but hes used some really dirty tricks to try and get what he wants.

Same with my wife. Hes done some really awful things in the past. But he doesnt see this. If I pointed out to him now that she doesnt want anything to do with him Im 100% sure he'd say why what have I done?
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Fair? How, fair?

You think you are being reasonable and logical: this is the case. This is why. I have now given you the reasons, you cannot contradict them, therefore you must accept them, therefore we now agree on the issue.

You are not being reasonable or logical, or in fact fair, because you are altogether overlooking your father's point of view. You are ignoring his thought process, pretending it doesn't exist, pretending he is different from what he is actually like.

He doesn't care about your reasons - why should he? All he knows is that he wants access to you at all times, he now has a bee in his bonnet about that including having your wife's number, he has set his sights on it. There is no reasoning to it.

So you keep setting up flimsy barriers, and he gnaws through them. Nag nag nag nag nag.

You put up just the one concrete barrier: I am not giving you wife's number. Let him break his teeth on it if he insists. It will get very dull, very boring, as concrete tends to be. But he won't get through it.
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No. Complete sentence. No. He persists, another NO and hang up. In person, same deal. No. No. Change the subject and/or leave.

As for brother, ensure he knows that this is a game dad is playing, pitting you against each other in a way and if HE is so concerned about dad, HE can go soothe him. If he does that, he will possibly become the target and perhaps will see how this goes!

In general I will repeat myself once, just to ensure the other person got the message. After that, move on.
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Paulfoel123 - Upcoming vacation:

Do NOT give "heads up" as to when you are going. If you do, you will be hearing about it starting then right up to the departure. He doesn't need to know until you are leaving, if even then.

Do NOT discuss ANY of your plans with dad (no hotel/locations, etc) so he has no alternate way to contact you.

Tell brother you will not be accepting any calls.

If someone at work (employees, if you have them, or customers) needs some direction? Plan ahead and ask them to contact by text or email for emergencies or simple questions only. YOU can call them if they can't handle something. NO phone calls from them.

GO and turn the call ringer off on your phone. Change settings to make everything is as 'Do Not Disturb' as possible - phone, Facebook, etc. Turn off your "dad switch" and don't think about him or his issues. If there is truly an emergency, they will find a way to contact you. Even if there is, what would you do about it anyway, being so far away?

Go, cut loose and enjoy your time away!

The above applies to ANY planned getaways...

Just before (hold off to as close as the date you leave) do any preparations and necessary shopping. Ensure, regardless of his complaints about too much money or food, that you stock up enough that you know he won't run out. Clearly brother is into enabling, so you can't count on him to help with this.
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I think Paul did a good job, telling his dad why (no phone #), cuz it was intended to help dad perceive the struggle Paul has. (In our hope that dad could still care enough to "ease off" on certain behavior). I understand how it is to think we can reach them somehow, hoping for progress, & for them to know how hard we're trying. Paul obviously loves his dad, & is suffering.
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disgusted - thing is brother enables him. Dad knows brother is a "supporter" of his needs but I'm not.

He lives 1 mile away, I live 25 miles. Hes got no kids to look after, I've got two inc teenager with aspergers and a 5 year old. His partner sits at home all day and doesn't work. My wife has fibromyaligia and struggles to work part-time.

He sees it all as easy. Why can't you help Dad? Hes old now and needs our help? He brought us up so why can't you help him now?

BUT, hes not the sharpest tool in the shed. When it suits him he will lie to Dad and tell him hes working or whatever. Even last weekend Dad was telling me how hes worked last 7 days 12 hour shifts - yet an hour earlier he'd checked in on facebook eating sunday lunch in the pub!
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It is difficult. 5 hour time difference for a start. More importantly, we're there having fun so haven't got time to spend on the phone all the time.

To be honest, when I'm away he expects MORE calls than when I'm home. Last year he did the brother thing "contact your brother and find out why hes ignoring me" because I hadnt called for 2 days.

Like I've always said sometimes not sure if its a power thing with Dad. He likes it if hes got people running around and/or making him important. Like I'm on holidays and how dare I have a nice time and forget about him.

The food thing is a joke. I bought him a large chest freezer a year or so ago. Literally its 5% full. I buy food for him and if I buy more than hes asked for he goes mad and says he didnt want to spend that much money (we're talking £20 ($26) here mind).....

Of course, its a scam. If I buy enough food to last him by filling the freezer up then its his main bargaining chip gone. He can't then phone me and say "I really need you to visit to get some food for me - I've got no food".
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Tiger - I do love my Dad lots and would do anything for him.

BUT not at the expenses of others when its contrived as well. I can't do that.

That's what makes me so sad with the whole situation. The way he manipulates when there's just no need. My wife works as a nurse in the community and she tells me about old people who's kids never visit, then I've got my Dad who's got it all and treats me so badly sometimes/
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Love him but stand your ground: If he mentions that he is sick, keep on telling him  "Take the meds the GP has given you Dad, if that fails then go and see your GP but I'm not a doctor.". If he complains about having no food, then say "Well, the last time I checked, I Filled your frig and freezer with food. That was X amount days ago. Why do you need me to go shopping for you? Did you have a wild party?" (As for the food situation, maybe you could try a meals on wheels situation. As for him eating the food, I am not sure that he will do it or not.) If he wants you to spend the weekend with him, Say "No, I am unable to". Maybe this is a good time for him to get a daily caregiver/helper that can help with his medical issues, feeding needs, etc.?
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Anonymous - thats part of the problem, he doesnt listen to the GP. They will tell him one thing and then 2 days later hes phoning them again for a different answer.

He wont take the full dose of painkillers because he "doesnt want to get addicted". Also "they bung him up". So GP gave him laxative. Wont take that "dont want to be caught short". You cant win.

Food is a constant fight. He gives me a list which is deliberately low (like I said its a bargaining chip for him) so I buy double. He goes mad.

He does get meals on wheels too. Again 3/4 days a week I think - for same reason.

Tried the caregiver thing. Last time he was in hospital they arranged this. Someone to come in the morning, someone in the evening. He moaned they came too late and he wanted someone there at 9am. I tried to explain that obviously they had a workload and not everyone could have 9am (this is the NHS after all) but he wouldnt have it.

Ended up one day phoning them and cancelling the lot. Jeez.
Paying privately - not until hell froze over would he consider that. His idea would be he'd pay £10 a week or something like that.
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