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Mrsribit and bookworm: Here's my guess. Ohio took her MIL to the doc on Friday. The weekends can be busy for her because her husband is usually home and she may be trying to talk some sense to him. She may be emotionally exhausted. She had an appointment with her attorney today and if she kept that appointment she is probably focused on what was said. She has a lot to think about.

She may be talking to her children, packing things up as she previously mentioned; the possibilities are endless. I am keeping positive thoughts for her and, like everyone, will be happy when we hear from her.

Cattails
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I've been praying for her. I guess you have a look into my imagination. I worry but I'm sure you're right Cattails.
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I am with you, mrsribit! I am hoping her lack of communication is due to the extreme power outages that have devasted a good deal of the mid west and mid atlantic states.....
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Hi All, I've had my hands so full here - I'm ok. Just saddened and feeling guilty - I lost a good friend this week, she passed away on Monday. We went through real estate school together in 2003 and remained good friends since then. We tried to make lunch together once a month or two, but since my husbands' mom came to live with us - I wasn't able to continue with our lunch times together, even dropped off the phone calls & facebook messages. This morning, I got an early phone call from my friends' husband, telling me that she had passed away early Monday morning & he was in tears. I went into shock - then guilt came on so strong. Here my friend had messaged me over having to go through a surgery and not feeling well, plus had to put her dog to sleep 2 weeks ago, messaged her how sorry I was - and would give her a call later. Well, later never came and now I can never talk to her again. I let her down.
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Update: geriatric doctor declared her incompetent. I got all forms filled out by doctor for guardianship. MMSE test done where she was 21/30. Does anyone know what that means? Doctor told me she is moderate alzheimer's. Also diagnosed her with paranoia and cannot be left alone. Highly suggested senior day care, not home care.
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Ohio I liked your comment only because I'm so glad to hear from you. I'm sorry to hear about your friend. Don't beat yourself up about it though. You miss her but you were taking care of someone you felt couldn't take care of herself. Use this as experience to give perspective so you don't lose out on others you love.
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Yea!!!!! about the day care! This sounds great! When will this go into effect? And what does hubby think?
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Ohio: You allowed yourself to be put in a situation that was abusive, crazy and out of control. When you can't be present in your own life, it's hard to be present for friends. I am sincerely sorry your friend passed away. I know it's a loss, but it is also a lessen to you and to all of us.

We all need to live in the NOW. I am sending you love and wishing the best for you. I hope you are making serious changes in your life. Don't continue to be a slave to your MIL or your husband.

Cattails
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Sorry for the loss of your friend.

What does husband say about the medical report on his mother?
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ohio - so glad you are making some progress. It is very sad about your friend, but hindsight is always perfect. I agree, don't beat yourself up and please don't feel guilty. I am sure most, if not all of us, have made similar decisions that we later regretted. I know I have.
I read the whole thread the other night - it is quite a read. Who needs fiction?
The MMSE assesses cognitive function, I believe, and the results do indicate some impairment - as the doc said - moderate Alz. I do hope this opens your husbands eyes to reality, and that home care is not appropriate. Stick to your guns, and apply those care giver skills to yourself. Everyone else does NOT have to come before you.Looks to me like some changes are happening.. Wonderful!!! A paranoid 90+year old woman with moderate Alz, and an absentee husband should not be ruling the roost.
and btw the best time between the sheets comes within a good relationship. :)
yes, let us know how your husband reacts to all of this
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Well said, emjo!! Cattails
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Hi Ohio, I'm so sorry about your friend. The guilt really hits home to us the importance of maintaining our relationship with others in our life. Sometimes, we get so focused with our immediate problem, we forget about others in our life. When I read about your friend, I thought of your children, grands and your parents. It's been a while since you've seen them, maybe it's time to reconnect with them - by phone, by mail, by email, by text and by person. Please continue to move forward and include your family back into your life. Life is too short. And, well, we're all not getting younger...Hugs from All of us!!

I'm so sorry about your friend. Hugs from All of Us!!!
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ohio - my mom, who has Lewy Body Dementia, has had over time all of the 3 main dementia tests for about a decade. Her gerontology group is with a medical school. Her last MOST score was about a 11, went from a 27 to 11 in about 7 yrs.

DEMENTIA TESTS: 3 main tests. Different yet similar….
1. Folstein aka Mini Mental State Exam (MMSE) - 30 point test. Takes about 10 - 20 minutes & looks at math, memory, orientation, basic motor skills. MMSE is copyrighted & needs training to do, so usually done by gerontology MD’s; MD’s,residents, student MD’s or trained staff @ teaching hospital; or nursing home with teaching hospital staff. Score is 27 or more=normal; 21-26 mild; 10-20 moderate; under 10 severe. Folstein has problems for bilingual persons.

2. Mini-Cog: a 3 item recall & a clock drawing test. 2 -3 minutes to do. Should not be used alone as a diagnostic. Some gerontologists do this at every appointment - done by medical assistant usually - and it goes in their file to look at changes over time and then either a MOST or MMSE annually.

3. Memory Orientation Screening Test (MOST): 1. Memory -3 word recall; 2. Orientation - to year, season, time, month etc.; 3. Sequential – memory for a list of 12 items; 4. Time – organization and abstract thinking using a clock face. Takes 5 - 7 minutes. Gives a score from 0 – 29. Highly reliable.

Other tests: If Frontotemporal dementia is suspected, can have an Addenbrooke’s Cognitive Exam done. Not all dementias are the same: orientation, attention and memory are worse in ALZ; while language skills, ability to name objects and hallucinations are worse in other dementia’s, like Lewy Body.

Data analysis found the MOST to be more reliable over time and more accurate in identifying cognitively impaired patients than either the Folstein Mini Mental State Exam or the Mini-Cog. The MOST also measures changes in a patient’s memory over time. This permits the doctor to identify progressive loss or positive responses to treatment.

Having a baseline tests done & repeated is really helpful to be realistic about what careplan to take. As over time you can evaluate if a medication or an activity is making a worthwhile difference. Same with scan on brain shrinkage & what part of the brain. Good luck and try to keep a sense of humor.
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Hey, glad you wrote back again, and condolences on the loss of your friend...
It sounds totally unexpected, and of course it's a shame you did not get to spend time with her and be the support to her that you might have been, but under the circumstances...well, even if you had known, could you/would you have been able to drop everything and do what you wish you had? (Bear in mind this is from another working mom type who is too busy to have friends, and that's gone on for longer than I'd care to admit!)

MMSE info from Wikipedia: Any score greater than or equal to 25 points (out of 30) is effectively normal (intact). Below this, scores can indicate severe (≤9 points), moderate (10-20 points) or mild (21-24 points) cognitive impairment.[9] The raw score may also need to be corrected for educational attainment and age.[10] Low to very low scores correlate closely with the presence of dementia, although other mental disorders can also lead to abnormal findings on MMSE testing. The presence of purely physical problems can also interfere with interpretation if not properly noted; for example, a patient may be physically unable to hear or read instructions properly, or may have a motor deficit that affects writing and drawing skills.

More info at http://www.getnhp.com/PDFs/ProviderPDF/Provider_Manual/Appendix/Tab%2013%20Mini%20Mental%20State.pdf

One other question: Who is going to be guardian? She definitely needs one, and I'd hope her son rather than her DIL would step up and take on that responsibility!
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It doesn't sound like your husband is in denial~~you are. It sounds as if you are bing used & abused. Why do you put up with it.
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Please don't just walk away "RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN AND DON'T LOOK BACK!!!!!! YOU ARE BEING EMOTIONALLY ABUSED!!!!!
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Ohiogal-many people concerned about you. Can you let us know u r at least hangin in there? Remember, the goal of the forum is to Support caregivers. U have received some strong advice, maybe overwhelming or upsetting, but probably given with real concern for you. Please remember, you are the one to figure out what you can and can't do, and when. Support is here for you, come back N let us know what u can or can't handle. Hope u r ok. At least let someone here know if u r safe. I'm glad the doc validated ur concerns about mil. We r still folding bags like crazy here-what have u been up to?? Sending hugs n prayers.
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thinking nof you ohio, you have a difficult row to hoe, Wanting for the lovely woman that you are to come out more and more, and the abuse and using from others to get less and less.
Prayers going out from me too. I hope you will let us know how you are.♥
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Update: This will be starting week 3 of physical therapy for my MIL. At least she will do whatever is asked of her, by this "young & attractive" male physical therapist & he is SO good and patient with her, but firm. We have 2 pages of exercises to do daily, along with MIL being told to wear her shoes with the inset (one leg shorter than the other over a hip surgery). She fights us on that one - claims they are too heavy, doesn't like them, makes her hands hurt (yes, her hands not her feet???), etc. My feelings on the physical therapy is this: since I have the majority of her daily care (meals, pills, baths, laundry, cleaning) that it should be my husbands job, not mine, to work with her on these exercises. He is ONLY giving up 30-45 minutes of his evening to "help" his mom - but he feels that his mom should be able to do them herself, not his responsibility.
HA! If left to her, they won't ever be done. She needs encouragement that it is worth the time to exercise her legs and arms - and I DON'T NEED ANOTHER RESPONSIBILITY ON MY PLATE!!! Or am I wrong to say this???
Then, the physical therapist feels he should be able to get her strong enough to be able to go up and down the porch stairs for someone to take her "out" 2x a week. Hmmmm...something else on my plate to do?
I already am losing money by not working the needed hours so my real estate career is going downhill fast. Oh yes, here is another one ...
for MIL to go to day care, she must be interviewed and analysis done on the level of care she will need. The rate is $51 to $71 per day, depending on that level of care. So, I want to set up that appt for my husband to take her - guess what? He refuses! Says he IS NOT missing any time OFF work, but he expects me to do so. What is wrong with this picture????
Then MIL gives away her car to her daughter, doesn't ask for a dime. Daughter is upset that her mom won't pay to have the title transferred. WHAT? Here a very nice florida low mileage car is given to you and YOU don't want to pay for the title transfer? What the heck?
I am told that this asset should NOT be freely given away, but sold with the money put away for future health care needs. When I speak out, my husband was in agreement - the car should not have been given away, especially angers me when this same daughter has not done much at all in taking care of her mother. I am now on one full year plus one month.
Now for a good note, my husband has taken me out to dinner twice this past week, while my step daughter has stayed here to care for my MIL. I had a really bad day this week, where I just could not continue to hear insults thrown at me, while I was on my knees, on kitchen floor, cleaning up spilled coffee with creamer - it was bad. My MIL is being obnoxious, standing right by me, asking me what state was I born in? I must be a hillbilly to scrub a floor that way. My parents sure didn't know how to raise a daughter or teach her things. At that point I lost it - I yelled at her - "shut up", every sentence she was throwing my way, I continued to yell back, "shut up, shut up". This went on for probably a couple minutes, where I finally just quit and walked away. Well, maybe I should have said stomped away, but then I felt horrible. I can't let my emotions fall like that. I have prided myself in walking away, not getting into verbal battles with her. I don't know how long I can keep my anger and resentment bottled inside - any ideas???
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mrsribit: thank you for the comforting words over the loss of my friend. That helps. Now, for the day care situation I am trying to set up... they require an assessment & interview with family member & patient (my MIL) at either 9:30 am or 1:30 pm during the week, and has an opening for this coming week. I was excited! Until my husband informs me that HE will NOT miss WORK for this!! And then my MIL claims SHE will not PAY for this and doesn't want to go. My husband is for it, as long as it doesn't cost HIM anything & I take care of it. What the heck? It's to help his mom not just me. The socialization and extra physical therapy would be terrific for her and gives me 8 hours of relief and time so I can devote to my job. I'm back to being the hamster on the wheel .... frustrated.
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What's wrong with this picture? That you are still putting up with the crap. A couple of dinners out are nice, but hardly compensate for the "I'm not missing any work" attitude.

Sorry to be so blunt, but that is how I see it. Are you in counselling?
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cattails, it's ALWAYS great to hear from you & thanks for your kind words over the loss of my friend. I am still surrounded in craziness, trying to figure out what to do now. I'll let you read my update. I'm frightened since I lost it one day this past week, and yelled at her to shut up several times. That's not me. I don't yell. Then I was so sick afterwards, cried for a couple hours wishing I could be somewhere else. Why can't my husband see what this is doing to me????
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igloo572: thanks for the explanation of the different testings. I had never heard of your mother's disease, Lewy Body Dementia. How sad. My MIL's brain scan revealed "gray matter" - according to doctors, she has this from being left outside in the florida day/night from Sat approx 4pm until Mon approx 4-5 pm, within hours of dying from breaking her hip & left outside from accident a couple years ago. She has had 2 falls outside her florida home, where she was outside overnight or two, until a sheriff was called or a neighbor to check on her.
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vstefans, thanks also for the kind words over the loss of my friend. And thanks for the description & explanation regarding various tests done for dementia/alzheimer's. Yes, my husband has talked with 2 attorneys over obtaining guardianship & decided to move forward. I got the forms filled out by the geriatric doctor for him. 10 days ago, my husband applied for a $170,000 bond that the court will require - waiting back on that to come in. Then I don't know the next step. Anyway, my husband told his mother what he was doing and why - she had an explosion and called her daughter, claiming we are out to steal her money. NO, not true. But now MIL's daughter is stepping it up a notch to try to get more assets before we go to court. She found out that UNTIL we go to court, mom can give away the world to whomever. BUT we keep telling my husband's sister, that there will me severe implications for taking advantage of an incompetent person and the medicaid issues down the road. It's gonna get real ugly, since his sister doesn't want this and will contest this 100%.
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Ohio: You have been able to make some progress with the physical therapy and the guardianship papers for your MIL. That's good and I'm proud of you for getting that done.

I just find myself angry that your husband does not give you more support. You are the beaten dog that keeps trying to get two abusive owners to stop beating you. Or the person who wants to get one demented person and another self centered person to be reasonable.

It would be very hard for me to forgive my husband if he treated me the way yours treats you. It would be hard because it's a character issue. If it's not a character issue, then it's a mental issue, but something is wrong with your husband.

OK, so you are waiting for the bond to come in and you don't know the next step. Try to make a call and find out how long it takes for the bond to come in and then see if you can find out what the next step is. Don't depend on your hubby to follow through on things. For some reason, that doesn't feel safe to me.

Are you still going to the therapist? Did your husband ever go with you to a session? Have you continued to move more of your personal items from the home?

Please don't feel bad about getting angry with your MIL. You are only human. You are only human and you are living in very inhumane circumstances. Stay in touch with us.

Hugs, Cattails
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DesertRat5555: why do I put up with it? Love. Compassion. My religious beliefs tell me to care for those than cannot. I fear that this could be me, down the road, but I swear I would never want to bring my kids down like she is tearing my family apart. My husband "used" to care about me - but now, I don't know who I am to him. Sure not his lover anymore. My counselor tells me if a man doesn't "get it at home" - mark his words, he is getting it somewhere else. This is deja vu to me. That happened in my first marriage, and I didn't want to believe it. But I had 3 sons in that marriage - and we had been married 27 years. I forgave him, although later in the marriage he started drinking again & was physically abusive to my grandson. It wasn't an easy decision - but I wasn't going to live a life where my grandchildren would get hurt. That husband "beat" my children until one of them ended up in the hospital & I no longer could be quiet. I feared him but I was not about to let another fist or foot hit my children. Believe it or not, he was arrested, ordered counseling and we started going to church. That same man never touched the boys again, learned to control his temper, was a great dad for many years after that ... except his womanizing (from where he worked, with one woman he kept close for 7 years, said they were "just" friends, until my youngest son told me about the kiss - I lost it, but forgave him - because I didn't want to lose my family to a divorce). Anyway, 27 years later - ended in divorce anyway - the first in my family. It was bad. But he refused counseling, hit my grandson who was a premie at birth and was only 2 yrs old, promised me it wouldn't happen again, then it did a month later. That was it. I knew as long as he continued to drink, I didn't have a chance to have my grandchildren come over without getting hurt. Anyway, that was 10 years ago. Now I have been married to number 2 for 9 years, he is not physically abusive but his words cut like a knife. And now, I'm in counseling, trying to understand what to do with this marriage & how to handle my alzheimer's mil, I still love him. But I don't get love back. He won't even touch me - says I'm too fat now, too much work to make love to me. He is very blunt & that hurts. I don't want to end my marriage this way - I guess I want him to acknowledge what he really has & is going to lose if things don't change soon.
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Debbyeone: I can't run - I have no money, with big debts at the moment. And I won't leave my MIL to the unrespondsible and irrespondsible. I couldn't live with myself. Once things are in place for her, then I will concentrate more on what is going on inside my marriage. It sucks. I have taken steps with personal items that mean a lot to me, no longer here. Meanwhile, while I am looking pretty haggard and run down, my husband has lost some weight (from 248 to 205), has been working out & has his muscular arms back, and a deep bronze sun tan from laying out in the backyard after work (while I am inside taking care of his mom). If you were to look at him, he looks more like 35 than 57. No lie. Hardly a wrinkle, too with a full head of bleached blonde hair. He's got great looks - nice job, assets, it's just upside down with our relationship from what it was to now. I feel like nothing to him. Half the time, he doesn't even sit down to dinner with us, the computer is more important.
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Kimbee, I appreciate your concern - in fact, it really surprises me that people who don't even know me, will write comments & sometimes I laugh, others make me cry, then others make me think (which I need!), plus lots of educational links and more. My life has never been easy, but I have much to be thankful for. It's difficult living with someone with alzheimer's, especially when so much is out of my control. (on several counts). Prayers are greatly appreciated. I'm looking forward to seeing what good I can accomplish this week - I have to think positive, otherwise I might not get out the bed in the morning. At least, when I am able to get to sleep - I enjoy and can get lost in my dreams, where I am somebody again - a happy place - I feel good.
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Ohio: Your honesty is heart wrenching. Still I find it hard to believe that you hang on to this man out of love. I think your self esteem is so low that you just hang on to an abusive man. I give your therapist high marks for his bluntness, but it doesn't seem to affect the decisions you make.

So what is your plan for your marriage. Do you think that if the guardianship takes effect, then his mom's money will be available and the things that are needed for him mom's care will be done. Then you will get back to work and hopefully get your career back on track and make your own money again. You will dig yourself out of the financial hole that your husband will not help you with, even though he can. Then you will lose weight and become the woman he used to want to make love too. Then he will stop getting it somewhere else and life will be good again.

I understand that you have compassion for his mother. I'm going to exclude the religious beliefs because I can't reconcile that with child abuse and adultery.

I think you are with another abusive man who is also unfaithful. He abuses you and his mother. Do you think he would stand by you if you were ill? He won't stand by you now.

You are a bright, lovely woman. What is it that makes you stay in an abusive situation. Stick with your counselor and focus on that issue. There is a reason and it's not religion, love or loyalty. You deserve more in your life. Sending you love, Cattails
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OH, man. I don't even know what to say to that last post. He won't touch you. That cuts like a frikkin razor. You take care of his mother and he doesn't give up anything. He's pushed her off on you and your life is spiraling downward and any time you reach out for help, he slaps your hand. I know you said your compassion and religious beliefs keep you caring for your mil. But, do you think if you left, someone wouldn't step up to the plate? Do you think you're using this as an excuse to stay in a marriage that makes you feel awful about yourself and doesn't benefit you in any way? If you love him and you don't get love back, that's probably enough said. You put up with too much garbage, and Jesus himself probably would've had to shout "shut up" a few times. And, it sounds like you're not even putting up with garbage from your husband, really. It sounds like he's moved on without you and you're just the caretaker. I know that's harsh, but that's what I'm reading.
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