I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
Maybe that's how he grew up, .
I know we all have our burdens to bear. No one is without strife in their life. I realize that's true for all of us.
But ...
It does seem there is an ordinate amount of "garbage" laid at our doorstep.
Having said that, .. there is also the realization there are 10's of thousands living in the Bahamas right now, homeless, having lost everything they ever had .. and so .. my problems really really pale in comparison.
It's just ...
The garbage that comes with trying to be of support to my dad. The fact, he is resourceful and has the means to pay for a c'giver that helps mostly .. is enormously helpful and appreciated. He "does" .. do what he can, on his own .. and/or with the help of paid/hired help . and doesn't call upon me for every living thing. That is true, and is appreciated. Being in their midst .. and his wife . and her scrambled brain . is more than enough to deal with the limited amount I do so.
The garbage that comes with MIL . (who had been actually turning the corner to more acceptance as to her situation) .. and all her woes. The fact the room mate hit her with a barrage of ugly . and the other friend she'd made, has just gone .. just vamoose . vanished. And her woes with not being able to "process" it all. It has knocked her for a loop . and in turn, .. DH's inability to compartmentalize . and bringing him into the doldrums with her. He spent .. all yesterday with her, .. after church, he went there, . and spent the remainder of the day with her, after having gone the day before .. and did much the same. I guess, . to be commended . ..
I don't know that I'd do things that way. I think maybe the less said and dwelled on the better .. perhaps ..??.... yes, indeed . go check on her, visit .. and divert as much as possible as to the topics du jour . and move along. But to go and spend the better part of two days with the hand wringing of it all, and worse, to let it all drag you also, into the pits of despair. I just don't know ...
And then there's the front with DD that hasn't even been mentioned.
SIGH
I just so need "others" to handle their own messes and garbage . so badly.
I try to help DD as much as I can in picking up the slack with her kids . and giving her a break (she truly has no one else that does so). I've tried to encourage she get involved in a mom's morning out .. it'd be a way for her to drop her kids in a setting where other moms care for the group of kids, .. in exchange .. she'd have to do so herself, as to the care of the kids .. but . thus far, she hasn't seen fit to do it.
Her cheese as they say is sliding off it's cracker.
She has ... thru the past several years had bouts of serious depression requiring medication. Was put on medication after the birth of the twins .. and .. I suppose .. all was well, rocking along. For some reason I don't understand, . .she quit taking them (not with supervision of MD) .. and .. just quit . cold turkey, one shouldn't do that, one should wean themselves . but she didn't do so.
Then we are told .. by YD .. who she confided in . that she thinks of killing herself . that .. she has it all "planned" out .. she won't do it, because she doesn't want to leave her children motherless .. but .. she sometimes thinks life would be better for all .. if she'd off herself.
This is DD . not OD. OD has always had mental illness . and is one who marches to the beat of a different drummer. But not DD. DD has yes, had bouts of depression . but never any suicidal talk.
So . that whole problem . and trying to voice concern .. get her to see an MD ..just all of it.
As I told DH last night, .. I feel like we are the dumping grounds for everybody and all their garbage .. I just ..
I do. I get it. I get it because MIL and my own mom always seemed so similar, and they raised their kids from birth to feel responsible for their happiness. Whenever my mom was depressed, sad, angry, or even pms - well, it must be someone else's fault. Usually her kids. And it was always up to us to accept the blame, and to figure out how to make mother happy. Always. The whole household revolved around that it seemed. No one was allowed to be happy, when she wasn't, and even vice versa, meaning, when Mom was happy, we weren't allowed to be upset about anything. We were trained to be totally enmeshed in "the queen's" emotions, and not allowed our own.
It's a hard habit to break. I agree - it probably would be a good idea for DH to get some counseling.
PS - I enjoy this thread a lot. It's like a big coffee klach where we share our sagas about our families, aging, and caregiving. Our insights, our frustrations, our emotions, our compassion, and our laughs. My mom, too, also held that haughty attitude about being above some other elderly. She called them the "Old old", and thought of herself as the "young old". (just like MIL saw the "slumpers") She too, finally gained her empathy once she joined them herself.
I think many might agree that Dorker's saga is the present day Peyton Place on Aging Care. I accept that the word slumper originated from MIL. We have all become accustomed to it just as we know or try to remember who is who with their assigned initials. Purgatory is spelled out for us because I imagine it has to be. There is HF where MIL is no longer likely going. Right now other titles don't come to mind. I consider this all somewhat of an exercise for the brain.
There will no doubt be frustrations felt for how certain members of this saga behave. We come back to hear about developments. We might think enough already. One day it either will be over or there will be new challenges with other family.
MIL to date has defied the odds. I feel the same way about my own mother. It never ceases to amaze me when I hear that someone dies in their sleep. I want to sign up for that choice.
I understand the sentiments expressed here. There are many times I might want to post but refrain because I don't feel I have anything relative to offer. I may not now. I do enjoy reading from those who are active on AC. There often is great wit relayed. Tonight it certainly beats doing anything more to the house we are about to close on. Good night all.
Apparently I am not supposed to say what i want or vent, but you all can.
If I cared what you thought, I would have sent you a memo.
I still think back biting the sister in law and calling old, sick residents slumpers is disgusting behavior, however, I can see that you all find this humorous and acceptable. Figures.
But Isthisrealyreal why can you say whatever you want to who ever you want but no one else can to you? You post how you love God but you bully and tell people to STFU. How is that a God loving person? This is not the first time I have seen this bad behavior from you. God forbid if someone tells you you are wrong but you are always telling people how wrong they are.
If you don't like reading a something on a post then just move on. Why do you have to be so rude? Just saying.
So sorry dorker.
(in case anyone other than me
was wondering)
pejorative noun
pe·jo·ra·tive | \ pi-ˈjȯr-ə-tiv , -ˈjär-also ˈpe-jə-rə-tiv or ˈpē- or -ˌrā- or ˈpej-rə-or ˈpēj-\
Definition of pejorative (Entry 1 of 2)
: a word or phrase that has negative connotations (see CONNOTATION sense 1) or that is intended to disparage or belittle : a pejorative word or phrase.
2 of 2)
: having negative connotations (see CONNOTATION sense 1)
especially : tending to disparage or belittle : DEPRECIATORY
And somehow feel that I should be bringing him here for his care .. that he shouldn't be subject to that .. and his poor lott in life. I don't feel that way at all, not even an inkling. So I don't get it.
My approach . .I go and help him . with transport and navigating as to chemo where necessary . and I go and check on him/visit. That's it . .maybe make a phone call or two if asked. That's it. I don't feel the slightest compulsion that his sorry lot is somehow mine to repair and fix.
I'll never get it . that DH somehow isn't able to come to that as regards his mother. I'll never get it.
So yes, I have a lot of frustration that I rant/vent about. If anyone doesn't like to read it . feel free to scroll right on past it. Those that contribute . your words are more helpful than you'll ever know, and very appreciated.
I talked to him on the phone last night and he sounds better, . said he's feeling better .. how long we gonna let him kick the can down the road".
What he isn't recognizing in any of this and I did draw his attention to it .. "Brother, . every time you talk to him . you have BB on the phone .. and it's a conversation between all 3 of you ... There is some posturing going on here, showboating . he doesn't know your wife all that well . she really has only been in his presence . maybe about a handful of times the 5 years you two have been together .. he doesn't want to come off as mealy mouth and weak/frail and so postures .. if you'd spend some time up here . .and be a part of what's going on . and maybe without your wife around, where he feels he has to make light of it all and not come off as a weeny .. maybe you'd get a better read than you're getting on the phone".
That is what I said to him. I never said the words, "and tell your wife to stay home, nobody likes her". It's the truth, but saying so would only incite problems and I have refrained from doing so.
If he "reads into that" .. some notion of .. well nobody likes my wife, screw em all . that's on him. That was never said to him or to her. If they somehow have the sense that she isn't liked .. that's on them also, that has never been said. Maybe they need to check themselves, rather than me checking myself .. as I'm not the only one that feels this way about her. If I was .. If I were the only one . and against a stream of "what's your problem Dorker, she's a lovely person" .. I'd have to check myself . for certain.
And yes, I will rant/vent about the fact that BB is so socially tone deaf that I am talking of the need to stay put .. in the even of that storm . to help my ailing dad and she posts a pic of them enjoying the pool. Yes, socially tone deaf.
As she did at one point . when I asked if my brother as coming back for the surgery . would he also be attending .. in case of any issue and her answer (socially TONE DEAF) .............. "no . we came up a week ago . and didn't get home until 10 at night, was a long day, too long". Socially tone deaf. In those days . yes of my own choice .. I was spending long days e-v-e-r-y dam d-a-y! And that was known.
I realize I'm not the only one that has stepped up to the plate with an ailing LO and seen siblings shirk what should be helping with. I don't have to like it, and I don't . so I vent/rant.
As to MIL and the whole piece of "why do you let it upset you" ..
How can I not let it upset me, when the emotional barometer of my household rises and lowers in the well being of MIL's emotional barometer. It does . there is a hiccup in her world, and it reverberates into our world here . in the same vain.
I don't guess I'll ever understand . how it is that DH's emotional quotient rises and falls as his mom's does. I don't get that. IMO .. my dad is far more ill, no I wasn't as close to my dad and maybe therein lies the problem. My dad is far more gravely ill and living with a wife who's brain is scrambled a lot of the time. And whether he is happy or not, I am able to compartmentalize and not let it drag me into the doldrums. Not so with DH.
I have talked to him, encouraged he go seek help with his guilt complex or whatever it is that doesn't allow that he not feel . I dunno what it is .. responsibility . I don't know what it is .. that her plight then makes him feel guilty, feel sorry .. and he says he will struggle until she's gone . that she is relegated to life in a NH. That if he was independently wealthy . she wouldn't be . he feels so guilty that she has this lot. I don't get it .. and it makes life at times, terribly frustrating for me. How can I not "let it bother me".
I don't get it, probably never will. I don't feel any responsibility and/or guilt as it relates to my dad's plight . and a wife who has a scrambled brain .. and somehow
For the record, .. "slumpers" as a term, shortens what I am describing as someone who sits slumped in a wheelchair, and somewhat seemingly out of it . and head nodded over, sometimes mouth maybe gaping open. Rather than go through all those descriptive terms, .. it's shortened to reflect what is seen. It is NOT meant as any kind of "slant" or a pejorative term. And no I didn't coin the term.
On another note, I see any number of things on tv, . and in print .. and hear a number of things .. I don't agree with. Thus, .. I turn the page, turn the channel and don't partake of that which I don't agree with.
My "rants/vents" .. are just that. I gain valuable input sometimes here, from others who .. maybe they don't even have a suggestion . but they've also been there themselves, with whatever the situation and maybe express their frustration also, and sometimes even a funny quip or two, that gives me a laugh.
As to BB .. and myself, .. and any correlation to .. "but you did things as you wanted, and stepped in as to MIL .. why can't BB do the same?"
There is, IMO, an ENORMOUS difference.
MIL and myself .. did things together .. in all the years . there was a relationship there, .. we went to movies, out to lunch, traveled .. we had an existing relationship.
That does not exist with BB and my father.
Any suggestions and/or observations that were input from my peanut gallery as things progressed through the years, were coming from a standpoint of someone there, front and center, . quite routinely, and had been for quite some time.
Not so with BB.
For those that would argue "BB has offered!!!!! Whaddya want Dorker, she has offered!!!!!!!!!!!".
BB has stepped in her own pile of dung .. in creating a setting wherein . folks find her abrasive and not one they want to spend much time around, and as such . there is no "existing" relationship. She isn't anyone that comes around and spends any time .. with any of us. Not my dad, none of us. In fact, I can cite numerous examples through the years of where just that was attempted on our parts .. "hey we're gonna do ______________ on such and such date, wanna join" .. and she made things difficult by throwing flies in the ointment .. and ultimately the result .. nobody asked her anymore. She has made her own bed.
So be it. My brother obviously has a marriage that works for him .. in BB. That's splendid ..
As someone else pointed out here .. if that's what works for him . grand .. but .. there is no reason in the world that other family members have to accept her way of doing things and embrace it, and that's what I chose not to do. I'm not alone .. no one else seems to want much to do with her either.
I happen to think (rant/vent) . it's asinine how they do things. What if I said, .. "oh dad . I'd help ya .. but DH can't be there, so I can't come". Which is ultimately what my brother does. He can't have his wife attached at the hip . and so he chooses not to partake.
And for the record also, I never said to my brother, .. "No one likes her, come without her". What I did say to him .. was back at the time he was running it up the flagpole as to my dad's kicking the can down the road on the cancer dx .. and not facing the music. Incidentally, was gravely ill at the time, with a collapsed lung . and the Oncologist herself, . didn't feel any urgency to share much about a cancer dx . at that juncture. My brother . and BB . .taking exception with that, .. that dad wanted to keep kicking the can down the road, to my responses of "guys he's pretty ill, the Oncologist doesn't really find that we need to make any decisions at this point, with him that sick .. so . waiting for him to get stronger, and more participatory . in his own healthcare needs".
I'd once again be fielding phone calls from BB and he, .. "how long we gonna let him kick the can down the road here, I talked to him
- I googled it and found the answer. God, I love google!
Becky - Thank you for answering my
question and for answering it honestly.
I don't know. Maybe I have an over simplistic view on it all...
Never having be a fan of censorship AND being a big fan of the freedom we have as Americans- to speak freely and to express ourselves freely - I’ve always thought “change the station...turn it off...scroll on by... walk away...” But don’t try to censor that which you do not approve of... least it happen to you.
Plus, Most of us who have been following this thread since the beginning don't take offense to the word "slumpers", its just silly word for God's sake. I believe it is the one thing that her MIL feared becoming herself, like many older people in fear of their own future and demise, as in " I don't want to become like That", and now she is accustom to these unfortunate souls, she no longer sees them in this light, her empathy shining through.
Let us not be judgy!
But I have an honestly just curious question for Becky ...
If you don’t read the thread regularly- what possible reason could you have for thinking it should be discontinued? How does it impact or make the slightest bit of difference in your AC experience?
Im not being a smartazz here - I am
truly trying to understand...
I say rant if you need to rant, everybody needs to get things off their chests to blow off steam, no matter if all the helpful suggestions are followed through on or not, every situation is different, and only those who have walked in their shoes know absolutely everything that is going on in their lives, and Dorker Has made Many Positive Changes in the last couple of years! Let us not forget that she has just gone thru a major storm watch while worrying about many others family members, and add in the constant stressors of caring for 2 separate elders, it ain't F"ing easy!
Let's try to be supportive here, and quit this ugly name calling, that's not what we are about here! If you don't like the thread, then don't read or comment on it, but remember, everybody needs to rant now and then, Sheesh! Carry on Dorker!
I can post on a public forum if I want, you can leave me alone you bullying thing you. So you were told no one liked her and followed the herd.
It is good you learned something from dorkers on going drama, to bad she hasn't, because nothing has changed.
This forum includes caregivers from various walks of life, with a variety of experiences and opinions, and writing styles. In most cases we're grieving the physical and mental decline of our loved one while juggling caregiving with our own lives, jobs, and, yes, infuriating relatives.
That's a LOT of stress -- "rants" are an acceptable way to deal with it. Please keep public comments kind.
we don’t get to dictate what Dorker tells us. She can tell us something 5 million times if she wants. This is her thread, her story. She’s not forcing any of us to read and respond. This is her outlet. If you don’t want to hear something relayed repeatedly, then don’t read.
I understand the disliked SIL situation. My BIL’s first wife was a bossy boots herself. When I came in to the family, I was told right off the bat that no one liked her. My husband said his brother wasn’t allowed to go their mothers house without his wife. If she had offered to help when BIL didn’t want to himself, it would have been turned down. They probably would have questioned her motives too. I don’t see anything wrong with that. If someone chooses to have a life with someone who is bossy and controlling and has to insert themselves in to everything, that’s fine, that’s their right. But the rest of the family is under no obligation to tolerate such behavior, they have the right to establish certain boundaries. I don’t think Dorkers dad is wrong for not wanting bossy boots help in a situation like this. I think Dorkers feelings toward her brother are valid. Doesn’t matter what happened in the past. She knows her family and their dynamics, we do not. Trying to look through Dorkers eyes, I see a brother who accepted help from his father when he needed it but who can’t make a little time to help his father out. I would be annoyed by that. As I have said many times, my FIL wasn’t around much when his kids were growing up and he sure as heck never bailed them out financially as adults and missed a lot of important events, and he decided to be an active part of their lives when HE needed THEM. It’s all too easy for those of us who have never been in that situation to sit here and say that Dorker shouldn’t help her dad because he never gave two chits about his kids and kept them on the peripheral and that her brother has chosen to keep their dad on the peripheral of his life now.....if that’s what he’s choosing to do then he could at least communicate that with his sister instead of ignoring her texts.
Nothing changes, ever on the dorker drama. She keeps loading up all the bs and carrying it around blaming others for not doing what she expects or how she expects it done. Then wants everyone here to feel so bad for her. It's called insanity.
Who calls very sick, old people slumpers? Who makes fun of anyone in that situation? I have no sympathy for anyone that puts themselves squarely in the middle of the chit and then is pizzed because others make different choices. That is not okay anyway you slice that pie.
So, linzey after you read this whole saga, check back in.
I recall the *incredible* disappointment and hurt I felt when I realized my brother was choosing minimal involvement with our parents' care. My sister and I gave up huge chunks of our time and energy to make it possible for them to remain in independent living into their 90s.
We had good parents who always expressed appreciation, and who had done a lot for my brother in years past.
But when my sister suggested he bring a meal and stay to eat with the folks once in a while, he became very nasty to her and said he'd never do it. Yet he bragged about cooking for his dogs, and would sometimes prepare complete holiday meals for his inlaws!
Mom made excuses for brother's rare visits, but she did express her sadness that he never came over to sit and watch a football game with Dad. Both are gone now, but it's a subject that still saddens me. And the relationship between my sister and brother has never healed. Like Dorker, she couldn't understand why our brother wouldn't take some of the burden off of her when she became overwhelmed.
I can suggest to Dorker that her brother may yet come around to some extent. Eventually my brother made himself available for some grocery shopping and dr. appts and did a lot of the work involving the final arrangements. But I agree we shouldn't expect our siblings to do unwillingly what we choose to do willingly.
Your father is not expecting you to pay him back with your caregiving in exchange for what he gave to your brother. But you clearly expect your brother to pay him back in caregiving for what your father gave to him, and you've even rationalized this expectation to where you expect your brother to help YOU because you decided to help your father.
Is your anger towards your brother because you don't want to be the taxi for your father's chemo appointments? If you didn't want to be the chemo taxi, then why did you offer? If it's too much, tell your father so. The caregiver took him one week, and so could do it other weeks, also.
You write much about your doing what is the decent thing to do. But if it's tearing you up inside, then you need to dial back on what you do for others. If you feel so resentful towards so many people so much of the time, then it's time to reevaluate. Perhaps at least some of the resentment is towards your father? I admit that I don't understand why you would want to help a father who was such a bad father (I can't get over his letting you and your brother practically starve).
I'm sure there's still been no movement towards getting his affairs in order, either. He is (and has always been) a colossally selfish father. He's going to be leaving you and your brother a mess to sort out, as his 6-month plan is never going to happen. I'm sorry you never mattered to him. You deserved much better!
I'm sure too, that when you and your dad and family helped brother, it was because you guys love him and wanted to, right? Not expecting something in return. He isn't obligated to bend over backwards trying to make everyone happy just because he was the recipient of assistance some years ago. Don't put a price on it, Dorker. He's your brother and you love him, and I'm sure he you as well. You just see things differently, that's all, and it's okay. You are allowed to feel how you feel, for sure, but I think accepting that there are different ways of looking at things from yours and brother's perspectives and that your choices are different, would help you to feel a lot more peace about things.
I have seen a pattern, everytime someone here says anything you don't like or they disagree with you, you go on a huge rant that is just babble, telling everyone how wrong they are and how right you are. Seriously, I feel sorry for your family, god forbid it's not Dorkers way or you disagree, because you will pay with a mental beating.
Sorry, I for one think you enjoy all the drama and if it's not enough, you stir some up.
By the way, repeating the same point ad nauseam is just nauseating, we don't have to be told 5 different ways that MIL is butt hurt because an old woman in a care home snapped at her. 1 time is sufficient.