I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
I have my opinions that I rant/vent here about it ... and that's it. I don't voice much in the way of any input in real time here, on the scene. Doesn't do any good anyway.
I'm the one who is the *realist*, surrounded by a bunch of pie in the sky Pollyanna demeanor.
I had mentioned in passing to DD .. MIL's latest request, also mentioning that she has put in that she "wants" to go to "the Shack" for her bday. Then telling DD, my words: "I think The Shack is such a bad idea .. such such a bad idea, the bathrooms there".
I guess I was looking for an ally that isn't there. Her response: "Well that's what we should do, you only turn 90 once".
I didn't weigh in any further. And as to DD's response on the trip to O.H.T., .. her response: "I wanna go if they do that, that would be interesting".
I didn't weigh in .. either way on that one.
As DD put it with regard to any trip to the Shack .. "We took her out a few weeks ago to Brick .. and she never even had to use the facilities there .. so .. maybe she'd be fine at Shack and not even have to go to the bathroom".
Yep.
Maybe.
But maybe not (the realist of the whole bunch says).
Done weighing in.
The only thing I can do is stand down . and that I'm doing. If it's thought a trip to O.H.T. is the thing to do . jump "ALL OVER IT" ... I won't be going.
Does that mean that DD goes along .. "that might be interesting" so she said. Does that then mean I'd be doing kid duty .. while a trip to O.H.T. transpires. Possibly. I'd much rather watch kids .. hands down .. than to climb into a car with an elderly that .. I question if she should even be carted to such an endeavor and the nightmares that might ensue as to toileting .. yes, .. I'd much rather watch the kids.
I'd much rather go do my own thing and not watch anyone at all, but DD's husband .. who knows if he'd make himself available to tend his own kids. I don't know that with him, it's more a matter of as DD refers to him . and his FOMO disease (that's her definition - Fear of Missing Out). Her husband, she says of him . .is worse than a gossipy old woman .. fear he'll miss out on something said or done .. in his absence .. and so he'd throw his hat into the ring more than likely to go along on this trip to ... what is probably a little town with 1 stop light and not much else. So .. why bother ... but I guess if you FOMO disease .. that's what ya do. I dunno.
As to answering on the question of whether Chitapalooza is still at play all the time. It is .. things can run along just as normal as normal .. for maybe a week . maybe even a bit more, . then all of a sudden ... Chitapalooza is the order of the day.
The only difference at this point is that .. she is tended to by staff .. as to clean up .. she is given medication with her normal meds .. that she actually "takes" . because it's not up to her to go get it and commence doing so .. she is hydrated better than when she lived alone . that is also attended to.
Yes, one never knows when Chitapalooza will come to visit with regard to MIL .. there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason. A doc that SIL had MIL to see when she visited with her back a year ago .. wanted to do a colonoscopy to investigate .. and no ... MIL didn't want to undergo same . and so he'd suggested a sigmoidoscopy .. that too she declined. There have been numerous attempts to discover the why's of all this via stool samples and nothing ever found.
So yes, it can still be a problem, and one never knows the why of it all, to be able to prevent it.
I'm just gonna "stay in my lane".
Maybe the birthday trip to the Shack will serve as a trial run for a trip to OHT. That will happen if SIL can't talk H out of the trip to the Shack. Or maybe SIL won't be in FL by then.
Maybe DD will volunteer to go with H to take MIL to OHT before then. Maybe YD will, too. Of course DD might expect Dorker to babysit, because DD's H apparently can't do that. Dorker needs to decide beforehand what will be her response to that question.
Having gone through that with a baby, I just can’t fathom what you would do if it was an adult that can’t ambulate? How do you clean the wheelchair if the adult can’t stand? Unless you land at a country club or Macy’s, no restroom is going to have seating! I can’t imagine it would be safe to leave MIL on the toilet? There are no grab bars, at least not in the restrooms here! Not even in the handicap stalls. With nothing to hold on to, don’t you think she might fall forward while the wheelchair is being cleaned? Or I suppose you can put those puppy-pad type products on the seat so that *IF* chitapalooze hits, it won’t actually get on the wheel chair itself. I tend to over think and I am just thinking.....if you are going to have to deal with chitapalooza, you don’t want it happen at a gas station bathroom where you don’t know what the heck you are doing! If DH and SIL decide to make this trip happen for MIL, then hopefully they do a few short trial runs around town with her.....and get some experience getting her in and out of the car & cleaning her in tight spaces.
Anyone remember/read Edward de Bono's Six Thinking Hats?
MIL probably has her *red hat* on - Feelings/Emotion. I just WISH I could go back to O.H.T...
So if DH took off HIS *red hat* (of mainly guilt), what about some *white hat* thinking? Data & Information. The facts. Or *blue hat* for Oganising & Planning. Add a bit of *black* for Dangers & Difficulties or even *green* Creative Alternatives. Make the decision based on THOSE!
I think he has been happy for Dorker to wear those hats to plan/research/alert/fix for MIL all along.
My folks did their little road trip btw (sans sister).
Mum clearly wearing *yellow hat* of "It will all be alright". Started early, returned very very late after losing way in dark. Dad exhusted in every way, Mum melted-down to an emotional puddle. But home safe - missed meal & wet trousers the worst it got.
Dad felt pressured to go. He did plan & take facts into consideration but in the end chose to go mainly because she WISHED to. He knew the risks & said he was glad they did it - ONCE. Next time she can phone a wheelchair taxi....
Let DH do a road trip if he cannot say "no" and make sympathetic noises when he complains about whatever happens. You have been through all of it - from her slowness and "oh let's stop here" all the way up to full blown chitapalooza at a movie theater.
Getting popcorn and a soda for the next installment of "As the MIL turns" - the birthday outing, SIL return and unpacking of house, and return to OHT.
Why he doesn't shut it down as to any possibility .. only he can answer to.
I agree that it's almost like DH .. (not so much SIL, she's been there/done that, more times than she can count as to chitapalooza clean up) ... DH is the one who needs to have to figure his way through such an endeavor, before he "gets it" .. that yes .. it's a quaint sweet notion that she go back to OHT (one horse town), . and revisit her memories from her youth ... yes, .. such a sweet notion. I get it that would be thought as a sweet notion. And maybe it's even possible without Chitapalooza rearing it's ugly head. But .. I do think that DH himself needs to have to figure a way through managing that scene before he can finally "get it" .. and come to the conclusion there are some things that maybe *that ship has sailed*.
Would've been a nice quaint notion back when she was .. in the days of living at home . and her words that I still hear ... in memory .. "what do I have to do, go put my name on a list there at yall's church for him to come spend some time here".
That would've been a great time to put such a little excursion together. That ship has sailed, at least IMO. But nobody asked for MO .. and so I don't weigh in, .. I only encourage "yes talk that over with your sister . maybe you two can make that happen for her".
All the while I have visions of nasty gas station bathrooms .. as perhaps the only stop along the way .. for clean up of a horrible chitapalooza event ... and .. navigating into said bathroom w/a wheelchair, .. her w/soiled clothing .. to get into said wheelchair, which will now have to also be sanitized .. once she's on her feet . somehow . in said nasty gas station bathroom for clean up ... and God knows if the car even survived this nasty hazmat scene.
Have no idea if SIL is aware of this newest request that came from MIL to DH in the form of, "would you want to do me a favor, .. I'd like to go on a little day trip back to OHT .. can we do that".
Have no idea if she'd see the perils in it all that I see, and shut it down . or would she too .. be contemplating .. all while wringing her hands at the as Blackhole put it, "self imposed tornadoes" and "willfully obtuse" notion that would be. Have no clue.
I can assure you one thing . that is .. that DH hasn't proposed this to his sister, .. (remember these people don't talk). Has MIL had the wherewithal to put that in SIL's corner also in the form of "gee, DH was by here the other day . ya know I asked him if we couldn't take a little day trip to OHT .. and he didn't seem opposed to it".
Have no clue. Nor am I researching and/or running it by SIL. Up to him to see it through. Or not.
I am still taken back .. with the fact that DH seemingly "buys" it ... when his mom .. told by him ... "I don't know mom . you can't even walk anymore, .. that's two plus hours on the road there, and two plus hours on the way back . and bathrooms and your incontinence" .. (he did at least have some recognition of the problems fraught with any such endeavor and presented same) but for him to then take it at face value .. "oh she assures she'll go to the bathroom before we set out . and wear Depends .. and it'll be okay" . .and him buy into that. That still floors me.
It's about the same as my 2 yo g'kid telling me . they'll never spill another cup of milk, ever again. Yea right! They mean well, .. but . the capability isn't there, same as with MIL.
It is, however, so nice to know, such a good feeling . this isn't my wagon to pull, and so .. I won't be doing so.
Maybe it all makes it's way onto a radar of an actual plan (or not) .. and I will not be a participant .. a great little quaint endeavor for SIL, DH and MIL if they choose to do so. Or not.
SIL probably won't go along with this idea, so don't get cajoled into going.
I was lured towards a road trip nearly 12 mths ago. Mum's idea. Dad to drive him & Mum + her wheelchair (mobility/continence issues). Mum wanted to bring my special needs Sister but no room in their car. Could I come too? And drive her? She has urinary incontinence & can't safely walk from carpark to roadside stop toilets or manage on own - so wheelchair & handmaid (me) required. Hmm. She had also started having a few bowel incontinence problems. I get tired long distance driving but no chance to stay overnight as destination (yougest Sis) house was not set up for wheelchair access. So long drive there, care duties, long drive back. Best case - tiring but sucessfull road trip. Worse case - poopy passenger + car there & back.
Luckily I remembered I had a say! Put on my common sense hat & said "sorry, no. Just too hard". The wish was to go but the burden on me was just too big. I said go (was hoping they wouldn't) but go & have a great time. And ps don't call me if stuck somewhere on the roadside with a blowout (tyre or other!)
Tell them to go for it if they want! Just step waaaay back & turn your phone off too.
I have to say, I’m not in support of a road trip with an elder who can’t ambulate and who can’t control her bowls. There’s always a chance the trip could go off without a hitch but it’s not a chance I would be willing to take. I’ve done it with infants, toddlers and now a 7 & 11 year old. Babies don’t wait until you are near a rest stop to have a blowout. Neither do incontinent seniors. We took an 1800 mile road trip when my daughter was 5 months old and.....bathrooms in this country are hardly equipt for a baby/toddler blow out! I can’t imagine having to clean up an adult in a public bathroom! Especially an adult that is wheelchair bound! I’m not built for it. And God forbid the blowout escape the depends and end up on the car seat, the door, the floorboard.....I would have a melt down. I wouldn’t know where to start cleaning it up! And I sure as heck wouldn’t want to continue the trip after that. Kudos to those who can do that, you are better than me. If I was your in your shoes Dorker, in my mind I would have 101 reasons why this trip is bad idea and i’d Be tempted to talk H out of it but.....the best thing you can do is exactly what you are doing-listening to him & staying out of it. Maybe this is a terrible thing to say but maybe he and SIL need to learn things the hard way....and you know.....suppose they take her on this road trip and in her mind, everything was ok. Is she going to start asking to go to other places to relive her memories? That’s not a door I would choose to open.
But for DH, a trip to Bountiful or Whistle Stop would not be beyond his or MIL’s capabilities. Especially with SIL along for the ride. If I were him I would do it. He would never regret it. He will regret not doing it. Sure bodily functions are always a part of life and can be prepared for and dealt with.
I know because I’ve dealt with a few on my own without supplies.
The world didn’t come to an end.
But we aren’t all built the same. And that’s ok.
I love that she wants to go.
It’s a challenge, for us Recovering Fixers to downshift. To step back and allow the willfully obtuse and the “tornado addicts” to fully own their obvious (to us!) lack of insight.
And it’s worth the struggle.
When a Recovering Fixer experiences the zen of Firmly Remaining Outside Of It (whatever “it” may be), the spark is lit.
As new “hand-wringers” crop up, we Recovering Fixers find it easier — and more natural— to choose the right words.
The words that protect us.
Keep on keepin’ on, Dorker!
Learning not to be part of the conversation is hard. But is can be done.
some other malady that I cannot possibly be a part of this wonderful celebration . you guys go and have fun, .. I need to stay home, and I will.
My thinking .. as he said that . I didn't even bring up any counter point .. have done so .. enough. It's not being heard.
I wanted to say to him (but didn't) . "you know why that can't happen . yes take her out, somewhere suitable . have you got rocks for brains".
He said he'd talked to her about the downsides of that as an option and she assured that she'd make sure she goes to the bathroom before she leaves .. that she'd have Depends on . and so forth.
I just wanted to smack him (that angst that still rears it's head) .. "of course she's going to assure you DH . she doesn't remember what she ate for b'fast this morning . much less what a dam nightmare it is .. to deal with chitapalooza that could rear it's head .. of course . .. when are you gonna *get it* that her brain isn't functional as it should be . and her assurances of this or that .. or pointless .. when are you gonna *get it* ............ she needs to be told that yes . we will take her out for her bday but that location . is off the table as to any consideration and for the reasons named . and period/final .. but you guys aren't gonna do that .. so be it".
I wanted to just smack him on the head .. "you're an idiot".
But .. nope. I didn't even offer counter point . and rebuttal ... I just listened . didn't even threaten with "well I won't be there" (have done so, said so .. more than once) ...
So who knows if SIL will be the final voice . when she gets here, that quells The Shack as any destination . she has said on the phone from afar, that is a bad bad idea .. and doesn't agree. Will she change course once here and hears that as the choice MIL wants. Very probable yes, . .she'll do what she thinks will make her mom happy.
So be it. So in one sense .. feels good to not offer rebuttal .. counter point . and just sit with .. "oh well . you idiots think you know better .. go for it" ... all with the knowledge .. that I don't have to be a participant. I don't have to interject MO ... I've done so . and it's not been heard (where did we see that before, ..??...oh about a million times as I was on the front lines for too long on all this and saying MO's .. as to her needs . and no one heard me). So be it. You guys think it's doable . and wanna do what you think will make her happy . jump all over it.
A false sense of security that created a few weeks back, the outing that didn't bring with it .. chitapalooza . and so now it's thought . ."oh she did okay .. we can do this".
Yep .. til chitapalooza rears it's head and in a site with no suitable bathrooms . wish ya luck there folks, .. and hope hope hope . that doesn't become an issue .. because if it does .. good luck with figuring any possible way of management of that whole thing.
So yea, the angst is still there, but in a much different way . once one releases that which was never theirs to own any dam way.
for your mom's bday and to begin to dismantle that house and dispose of the contents . if that's something you and she think doable . then put your heads together and see if you can do it .. talk to your sister about it".
How profound. I mean it.
There was a time that would've caused me all kinds of angst and (still does to a different degree) . .and some argument of how that is such a bad idea .. and how will you toilet her DH .. I mean c'mon .. and .. trying to persuade .. and thus .. and I'd of been right on the front lines .. in fact, there was a time when it would've been ME .. hearing this request .. as I was for too long, acting in his stead and on the front lines of dealing with his mom far more than he was present and accounted for. It would've been me, (the mover/shaker, of all things fix it and make it happen) .. persuading and begging/shoving/pushing/prodding DH into action to make this happen for his poor poor mom, and me on the front lines of .. how will we toilet her, . we'll just do it .. and so forth.
How profound . .it just hit me like a ton of bricks when I said that to him .. "you and your sister .. talk it over ..................".
I think it's a supremely bad bad idea . and one that should get .. oh I don't know, not much airplay . and maybe just keep putting it off . .and/or .. deflect .. but by no means should it happen .. just a bad idea for so so so many reasons.
I didn't interject that opinion into it .. I just deflected with the whole .. "you and your sister talk it over ...........", putting the ball in the court where it needs to land .. it's not mine to sort thru, never was.
So it's a bad idea, IMO .. so what .. if they think it's doable and wanna make that happen . jump all over it.
It felt good .. truly did .. to put that onus right where it belongs and not have all the angst churning in me, of the what if's and what for's .. and so forth . and the argument and consternation that would generally be the order of such things .. me the one who .. I guess because I'm who I am .. always thinking I have to lead the charge . and figure a way to satisfy every whim . .being on that front line as long as I was ... felt really good to not be in that role. And put it right back where it belongs.
Still brings forth angst in me, in the respect that I almost look at him .. in a sense of "do you have rocks for brains? .. why would you even give that any airplay" .. and .. the angst of .. "OH DEAR GOD .. I hope they don't somehow think this is some little excursion I need to be a part of to make it all work, not interested, at all".
So, the angst still crops up .. it's still there, but to a lesser degree, and .. in a different way. While I still feel some "angst" at it all, .. and maybe one day that too will subside, .. I also have the very real notion implanted in my brain at this point, two plus years on this road .. "this ain't yours to manage Dorker .. at all, never was .. so that's a bad idea IN YOUR OPINION .. who are you to voice any opinion .. at all .... so be it . if he and his sister wanna make this happen to make her happy . then stand the h377 down and tell em wish ya luck .. have fun with it, and go find something else to do .. and stay out of it".
The very real sitting with that too as an approach .. quells some of that angst that crops into it all.
And also . as her bday approaches (90th) . he said "she really wants to go to The Shack .. that's where she wants to go .. I talked to her about the fact there are no suitable bathrooms there .. and it's just not gonna be a good scenario, but that's where she wants to go".
That too, bringing about angst in me. I've voiced my opinion on why that's such a bad idea .. but it's not being heard . and so be it.
If he and his sister who will be here at that time, think it workable . have at it .. go for it. I've gotten a lot better at therapeutic fibs and can come down with a last minute migraine or some other
Nothing to report as of recently. Other than, .. DH .. who it's been interesting to kinda watch as a fly on the wall, 2nd week . he hasn't gone but 1x to go visit his mom . .in a week's time .. each week, 1 visit. I don't know the reason(s) .. haven't asked. And it's certainly not (at least in my observation) because he's been absolutely so busy he can't possibly get by there more. I don't know .. but each week, there has been 1 visit a week. Yesterday's too lengthy IMO .. stayed 3 plus hours there. But not for me to sort thru, and so I don't do it. I didn't go with him.
I kinda wish he'd go more frequently to visit his mom, but visits encompassing maybe 30/45 mins or so. But not for me to direct traffic on.
Yesterday's visit with his mom .. brought about, him telling that his mom *went there* (and she's gonna) .. about estranged brother and that whole saga .. that she'll never understand what it is she did that caused him to turn and walk away from the entire family and how hurtful all this has been to her the past 10 plus years he's been absent. That she has studied and studied, what is it she must've done that was so horrid that he could take this approach .. even though she's written him (not recently) countless letters imploring that she's sorry for whatever she did .. and apologizes from the bottom of her heart, .. and won't he please come back, to no answer from him.
This .. being played/replayed with DH .. who has little tolerance for the whole thing. As he put it .. "she goes there . with that whole thing and what can I say ...???.......everything that can be said . it's been said thru all these years at least 1000x's .. there's nothing more I can say .. I have to let her talk, but .. there's a part of me that wants to just shut it down and tell her I don't wanna ever hear another word about my brother ever again, that topic is off the table for discussion .. I have nothing to offer .. and everything I can say . .it's been said .. 1000's of times .. don't wanna talk about it ever again. But I don't, I let her talk".
To my response to him: "Yea, . .she does that . .does that to SIL .. does that with me, but I think we're better DH .. SIL and myself, .. at redirecting her .. yea .. let her vent .. for a minute or two, but we don't let her live there .. we just don't, we redirect, both of us, when she *goes there*. No point in letting her live there in that space, it just brings more sadness .. that no one can fix".
DH then .. more dismay to his tone when he went on to describe that his mother had asked of him:
MIL to DH: "You know what I want from you if you would do me a favor .. I want you to come get me, . and let's go to OHT (one horse town, where she grew up, about 2 plus hours away). I want to go to OHT .. and just go visit and see it".
DH telling me this with dismay .. and that he'd responded to his mom, "mom you can't walk .. that's a long way .. to go there, and you know it probably doesn't even look the same anymore, that was a long time ago".
He said he then pulled up google earth to look at some locations in that vicinity and none of it looked/sounded anything at all familiar, .. showing her different streets, .. etc .. on Google Earth . asking her does she remember this street name, that street name . no she didn't.
As he then went on to tell me, .. "I don't know that doesn't sound like a good idea to me, I'd like to do it .. I'm sure she thinks it's something that would be enjoyable, but two plus hours on the road one way and then back .. two plus hours . that's a long time for her to ride, . and I told her that and questioned whether she can withstand it".
It's still a OHT .. just a tiny little one stop light town, always has been.
My response to DH: "Your sister will be in town soon to visit for your mom's
Midkid, sorry to hear yesterday was a miserable day. I sure hope this begins to subside for you now that chemo is over. I have no frame of reference, been fortunate enough to not be up close/personal to that horrible disease.
You're doing good to guard your own well being at this point, that's what is more important.
My dad's PET scans a few weeks back did show some dissipation as to the tumors. Sounds to me like it's working, this poisonous chemical. Not sure how much he can gain any strength at 81 yo . and all his other maladies that served to bring him down so far .. and then the cancer and chemo finishing it off, as to his stamina and well being. I guess, time will tell.
Your dad is getting worse, hence the longer periods of time between chemos. Nothing to be done about that. Chemo is not for the faint of heart, for sure. It will take you from a bad place to a much worse place if the cancer is moving faster than the sure. It's best he just do the 3 week schedule. And he probably won't feel better, or do better as time passes. I'm sorry for that.
AS far as the 'clogged up' sinuses--chemo makes your hair fall out, your sinus cavity hair too. I was miserable until I put a small cool mist humidifier in my room. That has helped a ton. Just a small thing to help with comfort.
Dh went and saw his mom for 4 hours yesterday---he left and I was in bed (super sick yesterday so I never got out of bed) he went up to visit her and his sister and her hubby were there, so they all chatted. I guess she was pretty awful, but he didn't share much with me. She is refusing the in home care but so far someone is only coming in once a week--and that is not enough to help her bathe and do her hair and clean a little. But--not my business, so I made no comments about it. I was feeling so sick I just burrowed in my covers and slept and slept. This has only happened a couple times before, so I know I need to respect the overwhelming fatigue.
I can see my DH climbing into an empty bed in his mom's room and sleeping too. He just doesn't 'get it'....but he did go visit her, so he's off the hook for a month or so.
I honestly don't expect to see my MIL alive again, and I've come to terms with that. My own mother has had some kind of 'rebirth' of energy and is now going to 3 different Sr centers for Bingo all week. That's all she talks about.
One thing I have learned from all the drama is that very few people care, really care if you are ill. No anger about it, it is what it is.
Trying to keep boundaries and being kind and not overwhelming myself with CG things that are not appreciated nor wanted--I will go forward as I heal and not burn myself out caring for people who simply don't care.
BTW--my SIL is kind of an angel. She does have a retired DH and he does a lot around the house, so she isn't alone in the CG role. Her MIL is a mess, also, heathwise, but seems to function pretty well. We all have this mess of aging mothers who are different as night and day---I hope I can remember this and I hope and pray I don't live so long my kids are writing on a board like this one day "OMG--my mother is making me insane".
Remember, for years and years . it was me on the front lines, . not DH .. not SIL, sans her travels here every few months, it was me. And for a number of years .. it wasn't a problem really .. she wasn't "as needy" as she ultimately did end up getting to be. And when she did grow more needy . .and I hollered from every roof top I could find .. no one listened.
Yes, .. if I'd step into that role, . he'd step way back. Not a doubt in my mind.
It's really quite a dichotomy. It's my observation that when I do go with him .. he does .. back off and I have the floor there, whether I want it or not . and he can lose himself in his smartphone, scrolling thru nothingness, or dial into what's on tv, . and dial out of what's going on in his presence.
This, it turns out, is a good thing in the sense that the sadness isn't the order of the day .. as I won't let it stay there. She tries to go there . and linger in it .. but I redirect .. I let her vent, briefly . but I don't let her live there. He's dialed out .. he isn't attuned . for the most part. And so leaving there, . and him not downtrodden at all the woe with me that plays out.
BUT ..............
I'm not going to make that mistake again .. he'll have to learn to navigate the waters as best he can .. ultimately ..
I once was, in his stead . in large measure . as to spending any quality time with her .. and I won't make that mistake again.
If he doesn't find his way to how to visit her, keep it more brief (he stays too long IMO . nothing to talk about eventually . conversation now not really possible . so she defaults to the woe with me line of thinking and out it all comes) .. and so if he doesn't ultimately find a way to navigate it all, up to him.
Not mine to fix.
I wonder, Dorker, if H would see his mother less if you were to be the one to go and visit her. The next best thing is that he checks out when you come along, and expects YOU to engage HIS mother. He really doesn't like going there, does he?
(I am NOT suggesting you go visit MIL in lieu of H!)
Good boundary enforcement with your father,
Those kinds of things can and have been said to MIL in answer to the "I've lost everything". Generally you don't get the response you might think you'd get . maybe some contemplation on her part. You get a response of: "Well I don't care about them, I'm talking about me .. ".
Yea I know, you don't care about them.
Or you try an approach of (because you are well aware .. she hasn't been able to take care of the *everything* she's lost, not for a long long time, her dog, her house) so you try the approach: "yea and what a blessing really MIL . I mean, to not have to be responsible for anyone but yourself at this point . no house and all that goes wrong . and a pet with all it's needs .. how nice to be at a place where you no longer have any responsibility, you've had a lifetime of being responsible for a house, kids .. a husband .. a pet .. now you get to just rest and not have to stress over such things".
There's nothing you can say that answers to it all sufficiently . .and you figure that out in the few visits you do make and the sad woe with me tale that is always the order of the day.
And as to her meds, doc visits, etc. SIL would be more in the know on all that . .and yes, .. I do believe she was put on an AD at one point. Whether that is still being dispensed .. I don't know. The tremors . she was at one time on meds for that also, thus the question that loomed, is that still being dispensed, those tremors are awfully bad. But . yesterday in the visit .. I even remarked to her, that the tremors seem to have subsided and she agreed. Chalked it up to, she did . how upset the whole CC situation had her . that she'd been so so weary and upset thru all that .. and that had caused her hands to begin the tremors again.
Have no idea if that med is still on board .. SIL was trying to dial down on that . even sending directive this way as to if DH goes there, can he check .. because they weren't returning her phone calls.
I don't know, because this has been my only exposure to SNF's .. are they derelict in not calling back .. are they just that bad .. that they don't call back promptly . or has SIL made an absolute pest of herself, to the degree that they just now ignore her repeated calls.
She literally can call there, to make some request .. usually .. more than once a day. Most recently . a phone call also, to dial down on .. a check that was to be sent there .. as to MIL's personal acct, and did it arrive there. Along with the tremors question . along with the "where is the roomie they were trying to put there, what happened to all that".
I have to wonder if she hasn't made such a pest of herself that they really just avoid her.
Why doesn't DH take the reigns ..???...
I don't know .. if I had the answer to that .. I'd of been a whole lot ahead in all this . way back when . he never has. Not the hat he wears.
Stepmom .. who doesn't seem to be able to "grasp" how sick he's been with the chemo . and how it has so knocked him back. Her talking of his *atifee* (translation atrophy).
Yes, he is atrophying .. indeed. Too sick, .. a lot of the time to even get up and move much. Him talking of his falls recently, that his legs just give out from under him . completely useless .. and so he falls.
This as relates to PT now coming to visit . .and the PT guy there, .. I guess . trying to get my dad up to "walk" just .. basically a distance of perhaps .. I'd guess it would be about 20 feet or so, from his chair to the back door and back to his chair. That he'd stressed to the PT guy that he just can't . doesn't have the strength.
This then brought forth a lot of pushback from stepmom . who doesn't seem to be able to grasp it, that he can be that sick .. and so she pushing now . and so off he went . onto the walker, . and attempting .. and he fell. And his BP .. climbed sky high . and ... stepmom there, .. chiding . "well he's just breeding more *atifee* .. he won't ... I can't get him to get up and do anything at all, .. he just *atifees*".
My dad . the anger now surfacing .. "I know my limits and I don't want to cause myself more injury on top of how sick I am .. I try to say I can't do it, .. and ole peanut gallery over here, thinks she knows better! The PT guy then had me just do some exercises in my chair . which I'm able to do .. I hope to improve now that the chemo will be in 3 week intervals . and I won't be so knocked back with all the chemo . and be able to gain some strength back . but Dorker, I've just been too sick and you can't get peanut gallery over there to shut the h377 up".
Her chiming in w/just as much animosity about it all now: "Well he just is gonna atifee worse and worse".
Me: "Well . let's see how he does now that the chemo goes to 3 week intervals .. I bet there will be improvement. Good for you dad, for knowing your limits .. and sticking to them . no you don't need to get injured on top of everything else you've got going on . just do the chair exercises if you don't feel up to it"
(proverbially sticking my tongue out like a brat child would do, to stepmom).
Made me SO GLAD I have put some distance there. Their spats and arguments over it all, none of my affair. Don't wish to be mediator to it all.
And also dad . having complained last time I was with them . for chemo appt that he is waking up with what is .. a clogged nose each AM . and when he blows his nose, generally there is some blood in it. And so he complained of that. There at Oncology he was advised to maybe use a humidifier .. and .. some saline solution in his nose . to loosen the clogged nose, etc.
Since then, he has complained that he is concerned, . that which is coming and clogging his nose . and blood involved, .. it's coming (obviously) from his lungs . and so perhaps they should be taking a sample from that .. and perhaps culturing it or something . and has voiced that concern to me . and that he can't seem to get them, at Oncology to give it much importance .. they just always advise, saline solution, humidifier . and don't seem real concerned.
Said to me, that once again in Friday's Oncology appt .. (I wasn't there on site) .. he'd brought it up again with them . trying to get them to take heed, take note .. and again, all they advise is the saline solution and humidifier, don't seem real concerned, and dad then saying
Dad: "I'm sure if you'd of been there, to push that agenda .. they'd of maybe taken more note".
(I guess his way of saying . need ya front and center Dorker)
I didn't say it, no need to get into semantics . but my thinking .. nah .. you got this .. you want her with ya .. and don't seem real concerned that she isn't much as to advocating on your behalf, and I've told ya I can't deal w/her.
There are countless facilities that house seniors meaning that all those people no longer reside in their homes and subsequently may feel they too have lost so much depending on their attitude
I think that can be the response to MIL and DH if that subject is brought up. They seem to feel they are unique in that area while all around are residents who are in the same situation. I know I am stating the obvious but that would be a response to this tiring dialogue.
As to your SIL doing it all, no help from your DH. MO .. she, unless she's superwoman . or .. maybe she isn't one to dig up rabbit holes of endless superfluous stuff to attend to, . unless she's a super hero . she won't be able to sustain that level of care forever, and I would suspect she will speak up .. to her brother as to "step the h377 up you ingrate".
Maybe he can "hear" it when it's said by her. Not so much by you. Maybe.
Save yourself the headache. If he felt compelled to go and attend to his mom, he'd be finding his way there without prompt/nagging from you. All you do in attempting that is make yourself a moving target for his frustration at all that is an ailing parent he doesn't care to engage with.
You are fortunate that you are outta the loop and as such . not prompted to act in his stead, as I was. For too long. Keep yourself in that space. It will serve you better.
I know the feeling well, it's hard to look at them the same when they can put .. almost "I'd rather watch grass grow" . by making any/all excuses rather than go in that direction .. it really hits ya in the gut. I know, all too well.
But from someone who wore that hat too long . trying to get DH to go and spend the night with his mom some . just because . not because she was sick or ailing . but just because. Someone who tried to plead with him to go visit her, not because a sprinkler head has broken, or a toilet is leaking . or a faucet dripping, just because, . and him have everything to do BUT THAT ... wore that hat, watched it .. too long. All I did was create my own drama in my own HH to try to preach/nag/beg/plead. Did no good.
Save yourself the drama .. you'll be better in the end, your own well being, for it.
proximity to this "somebody help me please" woman. MIL has gone, not sure what she thinks she can do to help . but I guess that's beside the point really, she's gone to "rescue" the woman more than once. MIL telling that yesterday the woman was in her bed, hollering with the whole 'someone help me, I need help, help me" . .and so MIL made her way to the woman .. and found the woman complaining she needs to go to the bathroom . and so she was trying to help her, but soon discovered .. she isn't any help . she herself in a wheelchair . and so she went back out into the hall way where she'd just passed 2 CNA's on her way in there to the pleas of "help me" .. and went to the 2 CNA's standing in the hallway . both as she described it, eating something out a styrofoam cup . and talking and told both CNA's . "she needs help, she's hollering . she needs to go to the bathroom". (Yes the woman had pulled the string . or pushed the button . so MIL tells it).
The 2 CNA's . . a mere answer of, "we'll help her in a few mins" Most disturbing to MIL there didn't seem to be any urgency.
Me to MIL: "Is this the woman that you said hollers for help all the time and when they come . she can't remember what she was hollering for help about, same woman?".
MIL: "yes, she does do that, . she hollers out for help .. and help me please, somebody help me, I need help .. and then when they come .. she can't remember what she called them for".
Me: "That's probably why there was no urgency . in the CNA's to drop their styrofoam cups and hop to . ya think?".
MIL: "yea that might be, she does do that . but I tell ya, nobody gets in any hurry around here . that woman said she needed to go to the bathroom and hollering and they could care less .. they just don't get in any hurry around here".
Me: "yea . ya know . sometimes people age differently .. maybe her brain doesn't work right . and she hollers for help . like the little boy who cried wolf . and they've quit listening".
MIL tried 3 x's to go back to the whole CC saga .. and I just changed the subject each time, .. and it works .. and DH even chimed in at one point "Mother you've gotta get on over it, . they moved you .. you don't even have to be around CC anymore, . it's over".
Fortunately that couple had come in to visit with us .. her mom .. has lost a leg to diabetes .. a few years back . and now part of a toe . and now has a broken ankle . on the one good leg she has . and so many other issues . they are looking for placing her mom, and thus the visit there. So that saga . some of it told, in that setting.
MIL then going there, with her .. later (after they left) . "Ya know it's been such a huge adjustment . you know I've lost everything .. my dog, my home .. I have nothing left".
Me: "No . you have your legs . remember .. remember when B and P were here a few mins ago that you met . and her talking about her mom . who has lost a leg . you still have your legs . and what about that friend you made here, that has gone blind . you have your eyesight . you haven't lost "everything".
I'm probably "not" all that satisfactory a "visitor" to her. I don't let her wallow in it all . I just don't. And .. DH if I'm there, he sorta lets me have the floor .. whether I want it or not. He'd in fact, climbed into her empty bed . at one point and kinda closed his eyes. I left, . went to the bathroom and stayed too long, on purpose .. "fall asleep when we're here to visit YOUR MOM .. wake your azz up and you talk to her", so I stayed away a bit longer so he'd have to talk to her.
Then went, both of us to visit my dad and bat chit nutz. I knew he is falling a lot .. so weak . not a surprise. Has a big gash on his leg . doctored by visiting nurse from latest fall. Other than that, he's relieved to be past the weekly chemo, moving now to 3 week intervals of same . and hoping to be able to recover a bit more strength . in the longer stretches between.
I went with DH today to go visit MIL .. he hadn't been there since we took her on the outing last weekend. The tremors in her hands, not as evident. But no I didn't prompt him to go to the nurse desk and ask about any med(s) and that issue .. nor did I do so. Didn't seem to be as prevalent an issue as had been seen last week anyway.
No, seems these two people .. wear very different hats ..
DH .. one of going to visit and console and hand-hold and soothe and commiserate .. and then walk away so so forlorn himself from any visit there. Take any "action" on his own without prompt (or even with prompt brings no guarantee there will be action)? ARE YOU KIDDING?!?!?!? When h377 freezes over.
SIL .. one of magic whirligigs and hamster wheels and rabbit holes, endless rabit holes all in the pursuit to make all things right in the universe that is MIL and her orbit .. to the point I think she probably makes a nuisance of herself to staff there.
LOL. The illustration, think of the craziest/silliest ... most absolute maddening hat you've ever seen with it's feathers and whirligigs hanging from it, that's the hat SIL wears. Think of the medic helmet worn in war .. by soldiers . that's what DH wears. Two very distinct hats.
Is he waning in visiting his mom so routinely? This past week, .. yes, I think so .. I can't put my finger on any why to it all .. he wasn't particularly over burdened with work or other responsibilities and had ample time to do so, and didn't. So . I don't know why, other than maybe that little outing last weekend . .and him having to literally "lift" her to get her into the car .. maybe that had a larger impact on him and his recognition of just how incapacitated his mom is . than he even knows. I'd like to think that might be the case, but I might be thinking wrong too.
I'll have it be known, that 3 x's during our visit today which was about 1 1/2 hours (only extended longer, because actually some friends of ours .. imagine the surprise of running into some friends . our ages .. in the hall there . who knew, ..??...they are there to tour/visit .. on behalf of the her's mom ... of the couple we know). Ran into them, so they scooted into the room where we were visiting with MIL (had met her a long time ago, she doesn't remember, but they do) . and so they visited a bit .. with us, but also with MIL, which extended the time we were there. But .. 3x's she brought up the whole CC thing .. and I pointedly looked at DH .. while changing the subject .. and nodded my head in his direction as if to say to him "watch how this is done you idiot!" .. and it's successful. I don't sit and hold her hand and soothe over the whole CC thing . and then leave there all sad at her plight with poor CC . it's O.V.E.R. you've been moved to a different wing . different room . and it's O.V.E.R. turn the page.
Her roomie is very nice. "H" is very quiet . so much so I struggle to hear her, when she talks. Not sure why she's there .. didn't wanna pry. MIL doesn't seem to have any knowledge on why she's there . what for.
MIL most disturbed telling the story of the lady across the hall from her, . one who sits outside in the hallway in her wheelchair (or can do so in her room at times) hollering "help me, I need help, help me, someone help me". MIL having met her before . but now is in closer
H was going pretty regularly to visit MIL for a while there. Is he now starting to back off? If he doesn't show concern about her tremor meds not being taken or about the roommate assignments, then don't you be concerned about these things. It's between him and SIL. And I fully believe that Purgatory is only contacting SIL if absolutely necessary, and since H is local, if it was a true emergency I would think he would be the one contacted.
Your comments about trying to tie Dh down to specific times/dates to visit MIL, so you don't overdo and also so she doesn't get 3 visits in one day and none for a week--common sense, to me, to plan ahead.
My MIL has been home about 3 weeks now. Dh has actually gone into her home once in that 3 weeks, and trust me, when he did, I heard about it. Like he's going to be caught up by angels for visiting her.
So much for the 'shared responsibility' with SIL. I don't even think he has CALLED his mother.
EVERY SINGLE DAY after or during dinner, he sits there and sighs...."I'm a terrible son. I should go see/call my mom". I agree. Then he states the reasons why he CAN'T go/ call. "she doesn't answer the phone" (that's true, she doesn't, but eventually she looks at the caller ID and sees he's called and she'll maybe call him back) or "she's gone to bed". (It's 7:15 and he thinks she's in bed.)
I suggested that he simply stop after work and stay for 15 minutes and go ahead and say "I can't stay long, B needs me, she's not feeling well" (Even though you all know he never fixed a single meal or washed a dish through my whole chemo). (I'm DONE with chemo, BTW, what a nasty experience. Not to be repeated, even if I relapse in the next year--I am a 'one and done'. )
Point being, he isn't helping his sister, he is making himself feel rotten b/c he knows he at least need to help SIL, but can't even do that.
At chemo on Thursday, I suggested he run visit his mother before he came to the hospital. Middle of the day, good excuse to leave quickly, as this last infusion was, blessedly, very on schedule and we were done by 3 pm. Nope, not interested. Said he had too much work to do, but he played Solitaire for 2 hours while I got my poison.
On the way home from the hospital I actually ASKED him how his mom was and he admitted he didn't know. I said "Do you want me to simply quit asking about her and reminding you to visit her altogether? You want that nagging to stop? He said 'Yeah, that would be nice. I am sick of you asking or telling me to go see her. I'll do it on my own terms.'
I did say that I was ashamed of his letting his sis handle everything, but to have it his way. Made a big point of reminding him that my 'care' on his part was pretty much NIL. He never missed a minute of work, nor a business trip to care for me. He's doing the same to his mom.
I GET that he can't stand time alone with his mom, but he owes this to his sis, even if he hates his mom. Breaks my heart for his sis, who is steppin and fetchin' like a crazy person and DH is oblivious.
ANd I think he is not that unusual. I am finding my own son to be much less than concerned about me. Maybe that's normal. I'm glad I have 4 daughters!
These men can cry their crocodile tears for as long as they want, but to choose to not support other faily members who DO step up--I can't fathom it.
When peace and quiet, when days filled with the typical, mundane drama-less routine only serve to make you suspicious and set you on edge - constantly looking skyward- waiting for that other shoe to come pummeling down.