I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
Just why DID SIL and DD tell her father about the whole Target incident in the first place?
That one doesn’t make any sense to me. Okay... not just THAT one. But it is at the top of the list.
lack of backbone. I can tell from reading this post for so long that she had a great role model in you to stand up for yourself. She never saw her dad treat you that way. Do you suppose that SIL is holding something over her head to make her just bow down to him. I would have to have some answers about all this lying that it seems both of them have a tendency to do. I mean SIL making DD feel awful in front of her parents when he was asking her to steal groceries.
It just wasn’t okay for her to steal dresses or something for her or was it just not okay to get caught? I just couldn’t
let this go. Something is definitely wrong! DD goes missing in action for 4 hrs and still misses her doctor’s appt and then not only has that 4 hrs but additional time until 4:30 when she has to pick up the kids. She goes grocery shopping and will be back by 6:00 but ends up not having the chicken she needed so she would run by for takeout after being more than an hour past when she was suppose to be there.
I would talk to DD and tell her that chit is about to hit the fan and she needs to be truthful with you so when you DH SIL and DD have this pow wow you do not want to be hit in the face with something you didn’t know about.
Don’t even get me started on leaving a 6 yr old and two 2 yr olds in the car in a parking lot. Why on earth would you do that?
I have really enjoyed keeping up with your post. I kept my dad at my home for 16 mos. after he fell and had a TBI that led to terrible dementia. Then he was in and out of an AL
mental health care facilities, nursing homes, hospitals until
he finally passed away last yr in March.
I know you can get to the bottom of all of this and it just might be your daughter’s saving grace.
Rainmom, that is how I always felt too. You can’t force anyone to have a relationship with your kids and when my MIL so clearly favored my nephew, I knew it wasn’t a good idea to try to force her to spend more time with my kids. If we asked her to babysit, was made obvious that she really didn’t want to but didn’t want to say no. We rarely asked because I couldn’t see leaving the kids somewhere they clearly weren’t wanted. They would have picked up on that. My ExSIL was different though. If my MIL was going to my SILs to either visit or watch her kids, my exSIL made sure my nephew was at MILs that day so that she would have to take him with her. God forbid my MIL get spend time with her other grandchildren. She truly did force my nephew on to my MIL in the beginning because she wouldn’t take no for an answer. And my exSIL felt threatened when my SIL had her daughter (like my niece would become the favorite since SIL was the favorite child) and that’s she really ramped it up and convinced my MIL to babysit him every week day after school until about 8-9pm and overnight Friday night. Naturally my MIL bonded with him more even though he wasn’t the first grandchild. Rather than try to force relationships, I felt it best to distance ourselves and not go extra efforts. I didn’t know how to explain the favoritism to my kids so I minimized our contact with MIL for awhile. Didn’t want to have to explain why their cousin got away with everything & they were the ones to get in trouble. Or why she kept buying things for their cousin but not them. She was kind enough to help with childcare when i went back to work but clearly she wasn’t thrilled with the prospect of having to watch my son....and he knew it. He was 4 at the time. And it was a big a judgment for him. I ended up putting him in preschool so she wouldn’t have to watch him as much.
So I dont think Dorkers DD should try to force relationships but she doesn’t have to allow the grandparents to do this either. She can make the visits with the older child less frequent so the favoritism isn’t as obvious.
As for Poochie - 15 years is a good life span for a dog. He was loved by MIL and in the end - by BIL as well. I am in agreement with SnoopyLove that it’s wonderful his last year was spent in BILs care rather than an old lady who clearly loved him but would not have been able to give him the care he needed and deserved. All older dogs and dogs of older people should be so fortunate. Godspeed to the Rainbows Bridge beloved companion!
As all this has come to light I thought back to sometime ago when I believed you said DD was running alot and dropping weight. There much be so much frustration in her life especially now. Not enough outlet of activity for her children except for you Dorker,controlling spouse,unsatisfactory in laws etc. I can see how she could be going off the deep end,not condoning it but there must be a sense of hopelessness there. I understand how DH feels such anger yet if he were to fire SIL he is in effect making his daughter's life more difficult. I do also wish she could get to a talk therapist ASAP. Sorry about Poochie but I hope it helps the other SIL find some calm.
The desire for hard cash and lack of clarity about where their income IS going, the stealing and the strange gaps in DD's schedule versus what's she's telling you she's doing is setting off alarm bells for me, unfortunately.
15 1/2 yo, kidney failure and progressing rapidly. Meds arent helping.
SIL has kept her mom apprised as to Poochie's failing health over the past few weeks & measures attempted to try to help him. None are helping.
So it wont be a complete shock to MIL. But how sad for her to have to outlive and now deal with that over Mother's Day wknd ...and Covid lockdown ... no one can even be there to hug her.
Why things have to go this way .. I don't know. Would be more merciful had she gone before her much loved, pampered poochie.
I agree that it's horrible for the littles to be crying as the sibling is taken to do something fun. But the only way you can put your foot down with your inlaws is with the full support of your spouse.
Me: Maybe you need to present that as a resolution in conversation with her, . that you don't want to limit L's abililty to visit there and enjoy them . and your appreciation for their involvement in her life . but that you are a mom to 3 kids . and 2 of those kids get their feelings hurt and cry when they see their sister leave consistently and them never invited .. and you're going to have no choice . if you can't see there's going to be some equal time spread around some.
I never heard anymore on whether that specific conversation with her mother in law went any further.
They have always taken what is the now 6 yo .. even when she was a baby . they didn't have a problem taking her at that point . so it's not that "we don't do little ones" .. that's not it. And it's not that they just can't do 2 at the time, in the twins .. because if DD is to be believed . she has presented an awareness that can be tough to do . so take one . .one at the time. Result is promise to do better, but it never comes to fruition.
I dunno what the problem is . and for a long while now I have felt . it would sure be nice, if DD had in the other set of g'parents .. another relief valve . it seems I am the only one, they don't take the twins . e.v.e.r.
But the onus on that is on me, to do what I will as to spending time w/the twins .. if able .. and decline if not . and what they do over there .. and their ignoring the twins .. for whatever the reasons .. is on them. Angers me yes ... the fact that the twins now are secreted away at the time the 6 yo gets picked up . so as to not "see" the 6 yo leave with grammy and cry .. that they can't go too.
That's just flat wrong. No other way to slice it.
One thing if you have g'parents that have made it abundantly clear, .. "Look we'll show up for bday parties . maybe if you're lucky we'll pick em up for an ice cream cone . but don't be sending em our way . we raised ours . we'll call the shots . we aren't babysitters"
If that's the clear delineation . then say so .. FULLY aware that is the approach of some g'parents .. they are hands off . .and that's what works in their world.
But say so, . .don't promise to do better and then fail to do it . and then continue picking up the 6 yo .. and be a part of a scenario where the parents now have to scurry the two yo's out of sight . of the 6 yo leaving with grams . and they can't go .. or they cry. Just don't do that, . why .. how is it you justify that in your own mind? I couldn't.
Specifically when there is supposedly some awareness on the topic . as DD indicates . conversation has been had on this .. yet nothing changes.
Like I said, don't promise to do better if you have no intention to do so. State your case .. "we've gotten older, . I know we used to take L when she was small . and so it looks like . well why won't you take these two .. but we've gotten older, and it's harder for us now .. we just can't do it".
Or . as DD has suggested . admitting an awareness as to how tough it can be with two of them at one time . take one . take one at the time and spend time with that one, then change it up . and next time take a different one ..
But nothing ever changes.
She .. (son in law's) mom .. she is 56 yo ... and her husband, stepdad to son in law, also about the same age. Younger than me.
He wasn't a late in life baby .. he was born when she was .. by my calculations, 24 yo . to a bio mom and dad .. who somewhere not long after (toddler-hood for him or sooner) .. divorced.
As to his being a 'golden' boy . he most certainly was that, the sun rose and set in him .. as to his maternal g'parents . the only g'child they ever had. And those maternal g'parents .. in large measure .. a big part of his life growing up. Lived within blocks of where he did, and he spent every afternoon after school there and into the evenings .. and .. summers .. a large measure there .. and so forth. Paternal g'parents .. had other g'kids . and lived in another state and a portion of each summer, as well as some holidays . would be spent with his bio dad and that set of g'parents in another state.
As to his bio mom and stepdad and their not spending any time with the twins at all, yet they pick up the 6 yo .. routinely .. and off with her they go ..
I can only go on what DD has shared with me on that topic. She 'says' she has made her mother in law aware .. that it's not fair .. that she spends only time w/the 6 yo . and she'd like to see them step up some as to the twins. Says she has imparted to her mother in law, . that she realizes . it's a lot . to deal with two toddlers at one time, and that if her mother in law feels that's too much to handle, then pick up one . one at the time, and spend time with that one, then next time, .. another one, spread it out.
Says the mother in law responds .. that she'll do better ..
Then DD says that given the opportunity (they routinely get the 6 yo every wknd . and one day a week when stepdad g'pa to her is off work on Tuesdays . he spends it w/the 6 yo with him) .. but every wknd . they ask for the 6 yo . never the twins . even in spite of convo supposedly had on that topic. DD tells it that she even gives the opportunity . by asking her mother in law, .. "hey can you watch the twins Saturday night" . and the mother in law, invariably comes up with a million excuses why it's not a good time .. even though it's already set on the calendar . that they are to get the 6 yo that same wknd .. and . do so . whatever it is that's an impediment to their ability to "watch the twins" .. doesn't negate their willingness to have the 6 yo . as they do every single wknd.
DD .. imploring me .. as it upsets her with her MIL .. asking of me, "what do I do?".
I stay out of it, . unless asked ... yes, it burns my buns .. and I think it's all kinda wrong they do that and that DD and hubby allow it ... but . I stay out of it unless asked.
At her question, our conversation went about like this:
DD: What do I do, I'm completely fed up with L (her MIL) .. she will never spend any time with the twins . e.v.e.r.
Me: "Have you shared that sentiment with her, talked to her?"
DD: Numerous times .. she always promises to do better, . but then when I ask her if she can watch them . she always has a million excuses why it's not a good time . yet they have already planned to have the 6 yo .. for the wknd. I don't know what to do .. I mean they love L (6 yo) and she loves them .. I hate to have to withdraw her ability to visit them . and nix that, but it's not fair, it's about the only card I have left to play.
Me: Maybe if you allow that she is indeed busy and offer her some other wknd . just cuz she can't do it this wknd . doesn't mean maybe next wknd might work better, ask her
DD: I have . and she commits . then bails on me at the last minute, cuz she has a migraine . or she hurt her back . or they have to take the dog to the vet . or get their carpet cleaned, . or whatever . it's always something, she bails out.
~ Reverend Maclean, A River Runs Through It
But you may be right, RM; what I seem to recall is that Sonny Boy is a late in life only child and that his parents think he walks on water.
I can honestly say, that for the
first time since the Covid19 situation
began - I find myself thinking about something beyond the end of life as I knew it. My mind is in swirling over flow regarding DD. So much so - that I can’t even pull it all together for cohesive comments - for the most part.
So - for now I’ll keep it to these two thoughts that I want to get out before I forget and/or get side tracked...
First is the other set of grandparents. I found myself thinking “they are treating the twins like they are stepchildren”. And, that lead me to thinking why they might be doing as they’re doing. It occurs to me that perhaps they weren’t thrilled about their son and DIL having more children - for whatever reason. Whether by design or subconscious action not interacting the twins is how that disapproval is manifesting. If that is the case - and they are really that controlling and eff’d up- no wonder SIL is such a chit.
Next is something one of my bosses said to me over 25 years ago - that has stuck with me ever since: “There are two sides to every story and the truth usually falls somewhere in the middle”.
More to come... lol -‘I know you’ll be on the edge of your seat in eager anticipation.
I'm glad your dad is seeing that he needs to go to rehab. Maybe being away from K's craziness is allowing him to think more clearly.
I think I would stress to DD that she needs to go counseling HERSELF for her own mental health needs and those of her children. No one needs to think about asking sonny boy to go to therapy with her.
She's not going to therapy to work on her marriage. She's going to therapy to work on why she is doing crazy things.
Lots of people don't have money. Most of them don't shoplift or endanger their children in the way that she did. Her behavior is that of a real lowlife. If that's who she is and she's happy with that, fine. If she's interested in growing up to become something other than a grifter, there's help for that.
(You can tell her that from me). I mean you no offense, Dorker, I just think she needs a real slap upside the head right now. Her kids could have been kidnapped and trafficked for sex. Does she know how much of that goes on?
At her court date on the shoplifting and child endangerment charges, it's going to look a whole lot better if she can show that she is getting regular counseling and not just medication. Might be the difference between a large fine and a small fine, or only being able to be have supervised visits with her kids.
Has she met with her lawyer yet?
I would be very, very suspicious as to why she doesn't want to do talk therapy. You can fake a medication management visit with show timing; much less easy to do when you are sitting with someone for 45 minutes each week.
as the next stop in this journey . more than willing to go . puts voice to "I'd lot rather go there than go home" . and has some realization around the fact, he can't even sit up in the bed without assistance, at this point . and so .. has to get stronger.
Meds rx'd . and off she went.
I asked her, "so when is your therapy appt?"
DD: "I don't know, I don't have an appt, I see the psych in 2 weeks, for them to check on me with the meds they rx'd"
Me: "yea, that's med management . they should have made an appt for talk therapy ... they didn't address that w/you?"
DD: "No . nobody said anything"
Me: Well ,you need to follow through on that ..
And there came the pushback . in the form of, "let me do this in my own way in my own time .. I feel some regret for having shared with you the things I did, .. and now you're pushing me to do things I'm not ready to do .. " .. and yadda yadda . that she doesn't "fight" anymore ... and for her to land in therapy that results in . eventually them wanting to bring him into the fold, .. will cause him to jump on the defensive .. I don't fight with him . he thinks everything is fine ..
To my countering .. DD you have to get that initiated and that will help to empower you to find your voice, . what you're living (if I'm gonna take at face value what I'm told by you as to your situation) ... what you're living is dysfunctional .. you can't be "controlled, and lied to and manipulated like this". You have to find your voice and that setting will help you . no . they won't bring him in right away . they will help you to navigate all that eventually.
To more of "I will . in my own time, I have to do this my way .. I know my situation . and I know .. the fact I don't fight anymore .. he thinks everything is fine .. and for me to come at him that he has to go to counseling too . it will come out of left field . and he'll get defensive and won't go"
To some more dialogue from me, ..so you go .. you get that launched and you go .. let them help you .. that's what talk therapy is about
To more pushback ... (and of course, has been the case, .. not as much presently because I've made myself less than available) .. that all important relief valve in me, to be called upon as to the wreck of her life . and wanting kid care .. but that she is finding the answer to be "no" more often than she has encountered . and that's because .. if you aren't going to help yourself, then don't expect me to be at the ready to help you.
The service are there . .. it's just she needs to pull the trigger and stop dragging her feet .. .
And as to paying him a living wage .. I looked it up on the payscale database the other day .. as to what he should . typically be making for the trade they are in . for our geographic region and yes, he's on the lower end of the scale of what is typical (but he holds no licenses .... nobody's fault but his own ... show some initiative ... show that you're not as inept as you appear to be at times) .. so yes, he is on the lower end of what is typical .. but .. not below it .. and off the scale entirely.
And as to where their $ goes . them living rent free ... all I know of course is what DD states .. "he acts like we are down to our last dime . we aren't .. we have plenty of $ in the bank .. and he won't give me a dime of it".
Look no further than her coming here last week for TP and diaper wipes. Because he "wouldn't give her the $" .. and of course, in that instance, ... at least .. YD was on site and saw this exchange of dialogue between he and she.
And yes, . maybe that's his way of controlling some over spending that I'm not aware of .. but all the more reason to get thy self into counseling . and get it tabled for discussion as to a better means of how to do things . and not in a controlling/manipulative way.
As to my dad . no he isn't yet well enough to transition to Rehab .. intends to be . doesn't fight that as the next
I’m with Barb and stand by prior statement. Where is money going? Cigs for one or both of them? Alcohol? Kids are expensive. The family pays for a lot, and you had various comments about taking her shopping BUT thrift store and resale...SIL is employed by your husband. Your DD is very quick now to tell you in the middle of her own mess how bad SIL is. 10 months with you before. YD for years now. Your mother for months. Your DH is now pushing for MIL to stay. If your DD moves back with kids sole or shared custody, you Dorker will be expected to be providing daily care and you need to gird your loins. SIL will be difficult but if he moves back with his parents, it won’t include kid care. If DD is actively avoiding therapy, that is a big red flag for me. SIL is no prize, but her skirts ain’t clean either.
I don't know how it is in Florida, but in NY right now there is all sorts of mental health stuff available, for the most part free.
It occurs to me that DD may not have access to a joint account because of reckless spending in the past; this might be SIL's way of dealing with that problem.
But if he's being paid a living wage by DH and they are living rent free, where is all the money going?
(((((Hugs)))))
Are you sure the shoplifting has stopped? What exactly does DD do when you take the kids off her hands? Of course you don't know, but I find it hard to believe that she suddenly stopped. I can believe that she got scared enough to not do it when the kids were with her...or under her care, as they weren't with her when they were locked in the car outside.
The endgame for DD and SIL appears to be, sadly, divorce. DD would have to be able to have a good job to support herself and the kids. Any attempt to get consistent child support from SIL would be problematic since he doesn't seem to be able to keep a job.
Or else they would come to live with you.
Sigh...
How are things going with your father? Has he progressed enough to be released to rehab yet?
3rd week, I said it again to him . "I notice you aren't really clearing out of here . and going to see your folks, did that end up being an issue . is that not possible .. ".
Her husband: "Oh no . yea . I kinda slacked on that, I'll begin doing that again . no problem".
DH had been present for these discussions . I didn't yell at anyone, I didn't throw down ultimatums . I asked, nicely .. and in a normal tone of voice.
I thought okay we're back on track . not to be.
Next thing you know DD was coming at me both barrels . that I'd been rude to him (she wasn't even here .. she was at work) .. that I was yelling at him . refusing to let him in the house .. that she wouldn't do that to a dog . that it was us who invited them to stay here, to get on their feet who did I think I was . to now tell him he can't be here .. did I realize he as sitting in parking lots for a couple of hours . .. since I SO WANT MY SPACE .. that the poor guy has to now go sit in parking lots . because YOU SO DON'T want him here.
He was in the back when this explosion on DD's part aimed at me, and all my insensitivity errupted ..
I began telling her .. "I never raised my voice to him DD, not once .. not one time and I have never refused to let him in the house .. and not only that I have given him every opportunity to let's talk about it if it's a problem and he denied it as any issue .. why can't he .. I mean you guys have lived here now several months .. why can't he just give us some space .. just a couple of nights a week . his parents live mere blocks from here and I'm sure they'd appreciate visiting with him some, his g'parents . why can't he go see them some . why does he have to be here every night ..
To her (she was yelling at me) .. "maybe it's not convenient for them . for him to come there .. just because YOU WANT SPACE . .. and who are you to yell at him . and treat him that way
To my imploring him to come out of hiding now .. "why did you tell her I yelled at you, at what point did you think I was yelling .. ".
Him now himming and hawing and tugging at his shirt, . ."I never said, DD . I never said . no . I didn't say she yelled at me . "
To now DD turning on him "you most certainly did tell me that, that my mom was yelling at you . that she was rude to you . wouldn't let you in the house .. that .. that she was crass and rude . and kurt and wouldn't even let you talk, that's what you told me
To him now countering: "Well I guess there has been some misunderstanding or something I didn't say that .. I didn't say that you were rude to me . that's not what I said .. somebody is misunderstood in all this .
To DD now yelling at him because he won't own the pot of chit he stirred up .. and he never did own it ..
Those just two examples of numerous numerous ones I can cite . where he is less than forthright . and creates problems . and throws her in the front of it . and then . the chit begins to stink and he stands back and watches the explosion and claims to have not been at the helm of it all, . many many times. I can cite many more .. those are just two that come readily to mind.
Nothing further said of it, . she'd apparently left the dog now . over in the home that had been vacated and she had returned here . and nothing further said . til her husband got home.
I did see her walk away talking on the phone to her husband several times throughout the remainder of the afternoon but what they were talking about I wasn't privy to nor did I care.
Then they got home from work . and all h377 broke loose here.
He stuck his head in the door to the den where DD and myself were (her husband did) . summoning her to the back . to go outside, obvious he wanted to talk to her in private.
She got up . walked outside, and came back almost instantaneously .. and slammed the door on her way in barking out that he's such an azz.
Next thing he opens the door again trying to summon her to return to the outside to talk to him . when she barked at him .. "just like you S . stir the pot full of chit til it stinks ... if you have a problem with the dog being over there, then you speak up .. quit putting me in front of it .. to him now . having been called on his antics .. I guess he was . as she said . stirring the pot of chit til it stinks .. and wanting to put her in front of it to have issue . and she didn't . .not really . to her it was just a "oh well, we'll have to deal w/it" ..
To him now himming and hawing and tugging at his shirt (his nervous tick he does when caught) .. and calling out to her . "now DD . now . wait . now . ", and her blowing up at him . no say what you have to say right here in front of everyone . if you have a problem with it . then speak up damit .. that's what you always do . go stir the pot til it stinks and then throw me out in front of it to the wolves . no speak up"
To that, he walked away . and didn't say anymore.
Or let's cover another one .. there are so so so many . it would take a series of novels to cite all of them.
At one time they'd come to live with us . upon their return from an attempt to move out of state . lasted all of 6 weeks and they were back, both of them . no kids at that point . but a dog . same unruly dog .. and .. no jobs . .no home to go to, so here is where they landed, til they could get employed and save up to move out.
At that time, I was working a job I hated . and learning a new job . and so stressed out at work a lot . long days . 12 hour days.
DD was working at night, same place, but different dept . and she'd come into work about the time I was leaving daily.
He was working by now ... her husband . and so he was here nightly .. and she at work . and ultimately they were here for 10 months . far too long .. before they left, and things got really testy before that move was finally made, ..
Several months into this .. I grew weary of her husband being here nightly . as I'd term it . maybe give us some space . can you do that.
So I had a talk with him . a polite . .diplomatic talk .. and said the following to him: "I wanna talk to you about something . is there any way that you can maybe . I dunno . maybe 1 or 2 nights of the week, . I mean your mom and stepdad live mere blocks from here . your g'parents the same .. don't they ever wanna spend time with you . maybe you could go see them a couple of nights a week .. maybe . and just give us some space, would that be possible?".
His response: "Oh sure, that's not a problem . yea .. I can do that".
Me: Are you sure .. I mean I don't ever see you going to visit them .. you're here every night .. is it going to present an issue, if so let's talk about it".
Her husband: No . no it's not any problem . I'll do that . yea
That began in earnest . and I thought . ahh . how peaceful . a night alone . and no one here . yes . thank you.
By the 2nd week, it waned ... and wasn't happening anymore . he was here . nightly no going to see his own folks or g'parents .. and so I let that go . but by the
Yes I have a garage . but the doors where they've lived permanently marred by their dog and his claws constant jumping on doors to get in . didn't want that for my doors. I have extra bedrooms to go cordon the dogs off . but same problem .. their dog will jump up on my doors and mar them .. what am I gonna do.
At about 3 PM ... I did put them outside, . yes with a looming threatening thunderstorm approaching .. but what was I gonna do, these ladies due to arrive at any time now.
As it was .. the thunderstorm did let loose and no church ladies and casseroles yet . and so the dogs yes out in the driving rain . not my favorite choice, but also not my favorite choice that the dogs be left in a room where we now have door repair and paint job to fix their dog's having scratched up the door ... and also not my favorite to have these nice ladies get knocked over with hot casseroles in their hands .. by their dog. I truly didn't know what to do . yes . the dogs outside in the driving rain . and them not here yet.
They did arrive . and the dogs still outside, driving rain .. and them dashing to get up the steps to my house and casseroles and not get soaked . and into my house.
I invited them in . and mentioned to sleeping DD that they were here . and she got up . at least to be nice .. (didn't ask her to, only wanted her to know so she wouldn't come out indecent). They stayed only long enough to oogle the newborns and visit a moment and were then gone.
DD asked "where are the dogs" . by then it had stopped raining but I hadn't let wet dogs in . .and had been visiting the few moments with the church folks. I told her, . ."they're outside, I did't want your dog jumping on them .. I put them outside". She asked, .. "in that rainstorm . were they out there in that rain storm?".
Me: "yes . we'll just have to dry them off and get them in"
She didn't seem to disturbed by it .. but she was also drugged . from the c'section and recovery .. and she disappeared to the back . next thing I knew . she had on her flip flops and a dress .. and said "I'm going to take our dog back to our house . the house we just moved out of .. ".
Me; "Why"
DD: Well . he doesnt' need to be here . I mean you're trying to entertain your friends . and he's a problem .. so I'm taking him over there to the house we vacated . he can stay there I guess . and we'll just have to go back and forth to let him in and out .. and feed him .. "
Me: DD you are on those pain killers, you don't need to do that, you don't need to be driving . just let me dry them and get them inside, nobody else is coming that I know of
With that though, she had the dog in . and drying him and loading him into her car and was gone.
Next thing I knew, I had a call from DH .. "what did you do to the dogs?".
Me: "I had them outside . so and so was here from church . to bring casseroles . and I didn't want them to get knocked over by their dog .. and you know how he is .. he's so prone for jumping on folks .. and ya know I can't put him in a separate room he'll mar up the door . so yea . he was outside .. in the rain . not my favorite but what was I supposed to do
DH: "Man . oh man .. you have pizzed them off doing that .. ".
Me: Really . who?".
DH: Well I mean DD called . .she was talking to S (her husband ) and they are both livid . that you wold do that to the dog . leave him out in the driving rain like that ... furious ..
Me talking to DH: "Really? DD just left here to go drop the dog off at the home they vacated . she didn't seem all that upset with me
DH: Well I'm here to tell you S is . and that's not gonna work, to have that dog over there in the home where they vacated .. who is gonna go feed him and let him out and in
Me; "I don't know, not my problem . I have my hands full here . already . I guess S will have to fit that in
DH: Oh boy
Me: Oh well
(they were at work, he and son in law)
DD gets back here .and nothing
I'm going to bore you with some examples of a couple of things that come readily to mind as to how crafty he can be .. as to lies and deception
One . when the twins were born . those of you who were here at the time remember . they were to come here to live .. DD, her husband, their now 6 yo ... and the newborn twins . that because they were transitioning at that point in time, from a rented home to the home they now reside in .. belonging to SIL stepdad's now deceased dad.
The rent was up for renewal . this home had become available at the demise of the old guy .. and so . stepdad to son in law .. "hey you guys can live in that home rent free if you want".
The home not quite ready . as it needed privacy fencing . they have a dog . needed recarpeting . a paint job .. some other minor fixes . so her due any day now with twins . and either sign up to pay rent for another year or . don't renew that lease . and then plan on moving into what was the stepdad's dad's home .. and live rent free. But it won't be ready . not right away .. things that need to be done . not to mention packing and moving now . and her now 9 mos pregnant with twins ...
The decision on their parts was that they'd begin packing up . her able to do only limited amount in her heavily pregnant state . and .. they'd begin to move some things but wouldn't move into the house until some things got done . and they'd come live here .. til the 2 or 3 weeks it would take to ready that house to move into it.
Here is where they came. When the twins were born and time to come home from the hospital . here is where that was.
As the guys worked tirelessly at night to continue prepping that home and moving things . me here with DD and her now 6 yo . and the newborn twins . and DD recovering from c-section.
They had at that time (now deceased) an unruly dog ... one that has no manners.
But that part of it. I remember asking .. "can not the dog go live at your folks house . we already have a dog . and I'm gonna have my hands full here .. can they help out some . and take the dog". No, it was said, .. his folks have a dog that doesn't get along well with others . so no . their unruly dog would have to live here . it was said.
(bears mentioning this was the 3rd time they've moved in with us through the years .. never to his parents home which is mere blocks from here).
On DD's .. I don't know 2nd or 3rd day home from the hospital .. I had a call from some of my church lady friends .. (DD asleep) .. church lady friends wanting to come bring a meal to us . and .. meet the new twins.
I said to my church lady friends, "that'd be wonderful . I'd love to have a meal .. yes . what time can you guys come by".
Answer was about 3. Sounds great.
As the day waned on ... big huge enormous threatening thunder storm looming . bad one .. oncoming.
Now I have these two lady church friends (elderly) coming . to bring a meal here . but yet I have two dogs here in the house . and one of them unruly no manners at all, and prone for jumping on people. DD asleep ..
I'm watching the skies get darker and more ominous . and the knowledge I have these two elderly ladies coming . and what I'm gonna do . they're gonna want to come in the door here, casseroles in hand .. and dang . if these babies wake up . I may have my hands full too . and DD is sleeping . and their dog . that dog is so prone for jumping on people .. I sure don't want these ladies to get knocked over, hot casseroles in their hands . what am I gonna do.
I could have called them and told them to wait til the storm passes . but I didn't know what they were fixing . how hard they'd had to work on it .. and arrive her in a driving thunderstorm and me unable to assist them to get in the door here and yet keep a dog off of them .. and what to do . it was only me and sleeping DD here .. and babies.
I did the only thing I could think to do .. I put them outside, both dogs ..
No . absolutely not .. I already gave him $150 to be able to join us .. over and above all else he made last week .no.
Me: You did? Why'd you do that, .. we both said that if they wanna join to go to dinner, the tab is on them . not paying that
DH: I didn't want them to have to miss out .. and I didn't want you to feel bad on your bday that they couldn't come . so I handed him the money to pay for their dinner out . no .. you aren't giving them another cent
Well, once I heard that .. I concurred also. Nope . Not doing it.
I wish now that I'd gone straight to he horse's mouth on the whole thing . I didn't . always trying to walk the fine line of minding my own biz and staying out of theirs.
I let DD know there would be no dollars forthcoming for her to meet her light bill that her dad had blown a fuse over that, . and told her .. "your dad just paid him x and x and x . and some of that was intended solely for paying for you guys to be able to join us . so if that's all gone . then you guys need to re-examine how you're spending your $ . no . won't be bringing you any $.
She was incensed (or so it would be for me to buy . unless it was all a ruse to begin with to scam more $'s out of our pox on both their parts) .. she was furious with her husband . or so it would be for me to believe.
The story I was given by her, on that saga .. was that he let them ride home from that restaurant . him with scads of cash in his wallet at the time . all the while her sweating it out, . that they can't now pay their light bill .. and her saying out loud she's gonna have to go beg $ off her mom . for what was her mom's bday dinner out . and how horrible she felt to have to do that .. and he never said a word to her, "oh hey . don't do that, . your dad bumped me some to help pay for dinner .. your dad took care of it already, don't do that" .
He never said that to her . or so I would be lead to believe . let her sweat it out, to come beg me for $.
When she heard my response that her dad had absolutely refused and the reasons why .. and she then (I don't know was she faking it, and this was a scam cooked up on both their parts . to scam more $'s) .. she was then furious . and said she'd get to the bottom of it.
Told me later, she got off the phone w/me, went straight to him (this was all several months back) and asked for his wallet, . him with a deer caught in the headlights look, made him hand it over, . where she found almost $2k in cash in his wallet, . this is the story I got anyway.
Her calling me later, to apologize for having come to me . that her HUSBAND had lied to her . deceived her, let her come to me begging for more $ . when all the while . he had more than ample cash right there in his wallet that he wasn't gonna mention to any dam body .. and that she'd read him the riot act over it.
If I had it to do over again . I think I would . ask him . directly. "So .. why'd you let your wife sweat it out . you guys riding home from that dinner out and her sweating out a light bill she now can't pay . and having to beg me for more $ . why'd you do that .. you knew dam well you had been given the $ by DH to join us . why'd you do that".
I didn't ever ask him . in the interest of minding my own biz..
He has a very deep pervasive pattern though of lying . it's almost like you'd of had to confront that issue at a time she was also front and center, to verify that in fact, . is what went down . and him not able to squirm around it .. I've seen it too many times in him.
I took the whole thing at face value at the time . and didn't question him. And thought "wow he got his azz in a crack . why'd he do her that way . .and us in the end ultimately had I bit that hook . ".
I haven't a doubt though had I confronted him . I'd of done well to make sure DD is also present . so that he can't squirm his way out of it, by pointing fingers in her direction her not here to counter it, I've seen it too much.
Why would I be suspicious of DD? Well, .. I'm really mostly on alert .. for any sign that maybe she is somehow .. playing me in it all ..
So many things ..
I wish I had it to do over, .. read back over that story about my bday. That whole thing . there was an expensive restaurant that we don't often go to . and that's what I decided I wanted for my bday. Of no consequence to me whether kids (grown kids) go . or don't . and g'kids . didn't care either way. But .. I did care whether we footed the freight for same . and said as much and DH concurred.
If they wanna go . that's fine by me . but they can pay their own way, I'm not picking up that tab ..
So fine .. that's told to all who now have thrown their hat in the ring wanting to go ..
Who knows . in the end . the saga that developed .. was that a ruse . on both their parts to squirrel more $ out of us ..
Was it thought .. "gee mom won't even mention it to dad . that I've called her and begged her to give me $ .. that .. now I spent so much at that restaurant . that I can't pay my light bill . yea that's it . that's what I'll tell her, . she doesn't want her g'kids sitting in the dark, no power . she'll buy that . yea that's it .. I'll call mom and tell her we spent too much trying to go out to dinner . and to that expensive place that it now cut us short on having the $ to pay our light bill . she probably won't even tell dad .. she doesn't check with him on every dime she spends .. (and I don't . and he doesn't care).
The only reason I did, that time, check with him . is because .. I happen to know what her husband makes .. I do the payroll and taxes and such . yes he writes out his paycheck and signs it . but I simply have to walk over to the checkbook .. it's not kept from me, I'm the one that does the books for crying out loud. I knew . that my husband had just paid him his paycheck . and not only that $1800 in cash of OT worked .. the guy had gone home with his normal paycheck . but not only that $1800 in cash . from some job they'd done . and extra .. over and above his normal paycheck.
I'm not stupid .. I know that .. and so .. any plea to me .. "Hey we're really struggling here .. we're not gonna be able to pay our light bill" ..
If that was cooked up by the both of them to scam more $'s out of us . how stupid is he .. he knows, as does she .. that I do the books here .. I know what he just went home with mere days before . and am gonna question that. How stupid ..
I mean she comes to me begging more $ . they spent too much trying to go out to eat with us for my bday and now can't pay their light bill.
What I didn't know . and DH doesn't always tell me .. and that's okay .. or it has been in the past ..
I guess he'd gotten that whopping paycheck plus his OT . and still pour mouthed to DH .. "we're just not gonna be able to join you guys for dinner .. too expensive".
I don't know why DH didn't question him . ."well you just got paid all that OT . still can't afford it?". But I don't guess he did . what I didn't know . is that he'd handed him an add'l . over and above the rest . another $150 to be able to "afford" to go to dinner w/us.
I didn't know he'd done that . he just handed it to him . . just cash handed over ..
I didn't know that,
UNTIL ...
DH hit the ceiling . furious . when I told him I was going to need to give them some $ . that they'd spent too much joining us for dinner and were now short being able to pay their light bill . needed $. He was livid and refused .. and said h377 no .. they can sit in the dark then . the guy just went home with $x .. dollars .. and if they can't make it work with that . then they can sit in the dam dark . no . not only no h377 no .. the guy pour mouthing they won't be able to join us for dinner .