Dementia and schitzophrenia similarities.

I have missed this entire thread and was going to write a long post. However I will just wish Dusty "Bon Voyage"

I think the advice of being overmedicated is wise. My husband takes so much medication...Alzheimers..prostate (numerous)..high bloodpressure..high cholesterol....allergy...Maybe I should eliminate some...he has headaches..low energy...I'm having them all evaluated....he hates taking any medicines at all..gives me a hard time...he would not take a single pill if it were up to him...but I try to follow the doctors' advice...so many doctors...yet if I quit giving them to him, am I to blame if he has a heart attack or collapses? marymember

As someone gets older, you do have to watch symptoms. Many older people take high blood pressure medicine out of habit. It doesn't make sense to keep it up if their bp becomes too low. Continuing medicines for dementia doesn't need to be continued once the disease is past the moderate phase. There are no claims the medicines help with the later stages. Some people continue to take medicines like Metformin for diabetes, though it's recommended to stop at age 80. Other people take diuretics like Lasix out of habit, even though the effect on the kidneys can be very hard. Perhaps the dose should be halved and be taken only if there is swelling. And don't get me started on the cholesterol drugs for elders with borderline cholesterol readings. I've even seen doctors prescribe osteoporosis medications for people in the late stages of Alzheimer's.

I think doctors get their patients on a certain regiment of drugs and don't reevaluate until something bad happens. People can end up with a list of powerful drugs working on their livers, kidneys, and other organs. My mother is a good example of over-prescribing. Her doctor kept her on Metformin until she was 86. We eliminated it with no effect on her blood glucose at all. One less drug to take. Recently my mother's feet and ankles have been swelling, so I've given her Lasix as needed. But then I thought maybe a reduction in her bp medicine, Lotrel, would work to ease the swelling. Maybe we can try it to see if her bp stays okay and the swelling goes down. It would be better on both her kidneys and livers, as well as her pocket book.

Dusty, your mother was inappropriately prescribed vitamin D and that's why you don't "buy into the whole dementia business"? Give it a rest. You are not caring for someone with dementia. Stop insulting those of us who are.

Dusty, I do not understand your attitude and will not respond other that to ask you how many user names do you have on AC? I have figured out one of them. I have seen statements from you that you will be gone from AC on June 30. Are you developing your next identity?

You say that this group is hostile, and that goes both ways. I find the switching user names to be very deceptive to others here. Naturally it is difficult for others to find value in what you say.

Dusty what is magic about June 30? why not fold your tent today?

im used to analyzing input from demented family members . one of them is gone and has left a void . dustys ramblings and musings stimulate those same brain pathways and are more entertaining to me than a crossword puzzle is to others . i dont mean that in anything but a good way . my brain likes to be challenged by diverse data .

All very interesting. Thank you for starting the thread, Captain.

Schizophrenia's a fascinating co-conspirator to pick. There is an eminent psychiatrist by the name of Robin Murray, very hot go-to man on schizophrenia in the nineties and noughties and an excellent doctor, who suddenly and publicly appeared to lose all faith in the diagnosis of schizophrenia, period. I think he was finding people's determination to pin mental health down under convenient headings deeply unhelpful to his patients. I felt sorry for him: when you have a high profile in a messy, unmanageable field and people are demanding simple answers and clear instructions from you, what do you do?

If anyone cares, I think:
If your parent has classic, uncomplicated Alzheimer's Disease, you probably can't miss it.
If your parent has classic vascular dementia with a clear-cut cause, you probably can't miss that either.
But - as the bloody marvellous Teepa (may her tribe increase!) constantly advises - the number and varieties of dementias are beginning to look limitless, and meanwhile our understanding of brain function has serious limitations. How surprising is it that we have trouble being sure of what's going on?

So… all you can do is treat the person as you find him or her, and keep adapting as you go to find what works, as well as you can; and able all keep an open mind. I agree that there is lazy diagnosis, lazy prescribing, and very definitely lazy follow-up at large in the medical profession; I agree that one would struggle to be ***too*** cynical about the activities of big pharma and the ulterior motives of political and social policy-makers. But it is my experience that most people, most of the time, are doing their best for their patients and their loved ones. They will not always get it right. And whether you think that you will get a personal response from God to your plea, or merely that the meditation and reflection of prayer will improve your temper and your perspective, I cannot see what possible harm it can do.

I liked it best 50 years ago when anyone over 60 who was acting strangely was labeled senile.

Yes, Veronica, or my favourite - my history teacher explained that when they were trying to set up the Weimar Republic "of course by this time poor old Hindenburg was completely gaga…"

Yep CM that's a good one

Sorry but here in Ireland "away with the fairies" is the nicest way to describe this! I always imagine them away somewhere in thier head playing with fairies having fun while we are all tearing our hair out!

"HAVE A NICE DAY DUSTY" ?????

I particularly like the word "eavesdroppers" up there.

Let me explain: this is a "forum." People are *supposed* to be listening. I think there may have been a fundamental misunderstanding somewhere along the line - Dusty if you want to have uninterrupted conversations in private then you might do better to send messages to individuals.

Caveat: they might not always be grateful.

I just discovered a third ID for wanting. Why? I think I also know a fourth, just not sure yet.

Dusty, it doesn't worry me that you're religious. It doesn't worry me that you're not afraid to be controversial. It does trouble me that you feel so under attack, and that sometimes you're rather incoherent - unlike Captain, I find it alarming rather than amusing when someone who clearly is educated and articulate appears to ramble. I hope you're okay, and I hope things will go better for you.

I don't have pop-ups or anything loaded into my computer from here. I do have some ads to the right of the page and I get some emails about finding AL or giving helpful hints. If anyone is having the types of trouble described above, I suspect they have some malware that is doing it, and it isn't from here. I would recommend a better virus/malware program for their computer to help keep it clean. I would also check my computer settings so that unsolicited popups are not allowed.

I am also not aware of any rule that says religion can't be discussed. There are rules about courtesy. I don't care much what Standing posts. I invited her to leave once early in a PM because she said the group was a bunch of quacks or losers or something like that. I don't think anyone had said anything except asking her to stop hijacking threads with talk of the end of the world. If he/she didn't like the group, then why stay? Made no sense. Even today this is called a h*llhole. Yet here she is. We must be doing something right that he/she can't stay away. Either that or he/she likes to argue.

I do wish that in bashing the site, though, that the truth be used. I don't have any of the problems described on my computer.

BTW, excuse the he/she's above. As I was writing I realized I assumed Standing was female, but that is just because of the group. There are more women than men here.

Me again. Who is Standing. That should be Shaking. Dementia is setting in more here. :D

I do not get any pop ups either. Always clean and tidy :)

1. this website is totally cluttered with annoying pop-ups and ads
-No, it's not. The problem is with your computer, not the site. No one else is having this problem - only you. That should make it clear the problem is not with the site. You need to do some service/cleanup on your computer. Running a virus scan is not enough.

2. it is a for profit website, not a charity, which is becoming painfully obvious
- No one ever said this site is a charity - I've never seen that mentioned anywhere. Yes, there are ads on the sidebar, but they are *not* popups - they only activate if you click on them. 99% of websites these days have ads on them for revenue. However, this site provides a valuable service for caregivers, and doesn't ask for a penny in return from forum users.

3. Ads by BetterSurf header pops up constantly when logging in or paging
-BetterSurf is MALWARE - that is installed on your computer. It is NOT coming from the site. Do a quick Google search on it, and you'll find a ton of pages telling you how to remove it.

4. the website is dumping malicious adware on my computer hard drive
-Again...no. It's not. What you are describing is the result of malware *already installed* on your computer from previous browsing habits.

5. have to run nightly virus scan to get rid of the junk this website is dumping
-See above....and above....and above....

6. AC rules prohibit discussion of religion, i.e. this is a pagan website
- Call it what you want. The lack of religious discussion may just be to avoid controversy - just as discussion of politics can lead to heated discussions, so can discussion of religion. However, requesting that users refrain from discussion such things does not make a site "pagan". If it offends you so much, you know how to avoid it.

7. most of the posters on here have no interest in religion whatsoever
- See above. We're not here for religion. We're here to draw support from each other. True, most of us aren't terribly interested in being told we or our loved ones we are caring for are possessed by demons or need daily religious service exposure - but that doesn't mean we don't have belief systems of our own. Many of us pray, attend church on a regular basis, and read the Bible. Just because we don't go about pushing it down everyone's throat doesn't mean we don't believe. You believe in God. We believe in God (or whatever deity one worships or whatever name you call Him by). We don't all have to believe the same way, and I'm sorry if that offends you...but it's a fact that the rest of us understand and accept.

8. hostile audience, i have seen people bashed on here from first posting
- .......

9. rude comments of explicit nature are not filtered as advertised
- I've never seen an "advertisement" for this site, and have never seen anything stating that explicit comments would be filtered. I have, however, seen comments removed from the site when they were offensive in nature, or when they attacked others. I've seen your own comments removed for that very reason, Dusty....

10. no way to delete or edit posts after they are written
- Yes, I agree that's a problem. But it means we have to be sure to word our posts carefully before we hit "post", doesn't it?

Really, Dusty...I am not attacking you, bashing you, or even trying to be the slightest bit "hostile" towards you. I'm sure, however, that you will see what I'm about to say as an attack - but I can't help how you see it. I am stating facts.

I hope you find whatever happiness you can in life - whether it involves this site or not. However...I really, truly don't think you're leaving. And you and I (and many others) know that's the truth. You may not come back as "shakingdustoff", but you will, inevitably, show back up.
The truth of the matter is that you seem to *enjoy* stirring the pot here and the reaction you get. It justifies your rants about how horrible we all are and makes you feel better about yourself, apparently. You seem like a miserably unhappy person most of the time, unless you are attacking others or posting inflammatory statements in order to get a huge reaction out of us. Some days, you post somewhat helpful information and act at least something like a human being. But most days, all you want to do is pick fights among the members, call them names, and go on personal attacks against them.

Just remember...what goes around, comes around. And that Karma....she can be a real B****.

An interesting subject Captain ... until some people started mud slinging :(

My mother was diagnosed with "dementia" a number of years ago. She also has parkinsons and has had a number of strokes over the years. Now 88 and in a NH she's nuttier than squirrel poop, or is she? She;s been a mean, spiteful, manipulative, totally negative narcissist all her life and, even though she can no longer sit up or stand and her speech and mind are mostly gone, she's still at it.

I had no idea what a narcissist was until a couple of years ago but now I understand why she was abusive, pushed me away (I didn't want children hanging on my skirts, I just wanted to go have a good time" and that she did, big time!) and trampled anyone who has the misfortune to cross her path. She has no friends, no visitors and I am the only family so, of course, her health issues and the fact she's in NH are all my fault so I get a tongue lashing any time she can get me in her sights. Changed my phone number, made it unlisted and she doesn't know my address so she can't get at me any more unless I visit which is every week or two but it's awful, I dread it and feel ill for a couple of days afterwards. I may well have to decrease visits for the sake of my own health..

In paying her meds bill I've googled what she's taking and there's nothing untoward, though except for her parkinsons meds she refuses the others despite telling her she must take them to keep herself going. Her mental (and physical) decline has no doubt been due to 15 years of parkinsons and strokes, but of course I'm no physician.

All I know is that she's never been happy with anything in her life and never will be - in fact shortly before my dear father passed he said "Your mother will never be satisfied with anything" and after over 50 years with her taking the brunt of her evil ways he was an expert!,

I've given up so much and lost so many opportunities in my life due to Mommie Dearest's control and manipulation and I've jumped through hoops of fire to try to make her happy, all to no avail. I will continue to ensure her bills are paid and she has all she needs but I'm going further and further into the distance these past few months.

A friend of mine suggested that what she's going through is karma coming back to bite her for all her evil during her life time and she may linger for some time for just that reason. Perhaps, in the next life, she can find the happiness she never could in this one.

The day she passes there's not one soul who will care. There will be no funeral or service as no-one will come. In a way I feel sad, sad for a life that meant nothing to anyone.

Captain thanks for starting this thread, even though it brings up so much hurt for many which is probably why all they can do is lash out. Me? I'm going to have a glass of wine and head off to bed with my beloved dogs. Cheers!

So what is your point?
Everyone on this site is old and nutty? how sane are you?
Could be true many certainly feel they are headed in that direction, senile relative or not.
We all know the capt is as nutty as a fruit cake so don't bother attacking him he can't understand anyway. He and Aunt Edna make a good pair cruising the back roads of Indiana in his vintage truck rushing home for some of those "finger licken" chicken livers and half a cherry cobbler.
Have you considered that the "murder" of Elizabeth Barrow could have been a mercy killing?
Dear sweet Laura Lundquish could not bear to see her only friend and room mate of many years continue to suffer and scream in pain every time the nurses touched her and beg the Dr on his bi weekly visit to end her misery.
So early one morning after little sleep listening to Lizzie moaning all night Laura pulled her bent and aching emaciated body out of her bed and leaning heavily on her walker took the few steps to Lizzies side. She touched her friends hand and Lizzie opened her eyes. "Is it time she whispered in a hoarse voice?" Laura nodded her head and reached down and pulled the clean trash bag out of Lizzies bin and gently slid it over her head while Lizzie gripped her boney arm. She wanted this so badly but was a little afraid. Lizzies breathing soon stopped and the heaving of her chest subsided. Laura held her wrist until she could no longer feel a pulse - she knew CPR
In her last lucid moment she whispered "Rest in peace Elizabeth Barrow" as she shuffled towards the dining room she thought to her self " a prison cell can't be any worse than this hell hole. That could be the story of the murder of Elizabeth Barrow. We will never know because Laura never spoke another word.
When you shake the dust off from this site we will surely recognize if you choose to come back as one of your other multiple personalities.
Apologies to the capt and Aunt Edna

i dont care about personal attacks . fyi , dusty , most of the drugs ive ever taken were prescribed -- to someone . he he .
some came on a mule train thru ankara .
its all good ..
i think were all nuts but when the brain gets old we dont even try to hide it any longer .
i gotta go back to the dark ages ( no internet ) with my aunt now . had to come home and freshen up a bit .

dusty , this site doesnt intefere with religious discussion . im always cracking wise about my non - belief system and have never been hassled about it .
i dont even think they have moderators since ive been on the hepc tx and avoiding booze . he he he

I totally respect others' beliefs but when they try to push it down my throat? Let's say it doesn't end well. Each to their own. I've only ever been to church for weddings and funerals, which are pretty much the same thing. You can murder someone on Saturday and piously trot off to church on Sunday and say your three hail marys or whatever. How insane is that? IMHO being a decent person is how you treat others day to day. Being an evil sonofab*tch, shoving religion down peoples' throats on a daily basis and praying, well you're welcome but, like most people, I run from religious nutbars.

Oh they've still got moderators capt it's just that when they see a post come up from you they run for the gin bottle and say a couple of "Hail Marys"
Apologies to my Catholic friends oh and the Pope he's a really good guy.

Veronica thanks for the giggle :)

The drama llamas, they be migrating!
It's hard to flounce off in a huff if nobody is watching. I've seen more spectacular flouncing on a knitting board I read.

Back OT! I think at some point it doesn't matter what the label is: Alz, demetia, cluster A disorder, or combo platter with eggroll. Somebody still has to deal with the person suffering. And it's no easy task. It's not pretty, it's not for sissies, and it's not like taking care of babies. Babies are cute. It's stressful, gross, time consuming, and soul crushing.

Once upon a time people died of dropsy. When was the last time you heard that in an obituary? Now we know better. It could be any number of things. These diagnostic differences are absolutely significant when there is a course of treatment or rehab available. But at the point my mom is at now, it makes not a whit of difference. Nobody caught her cluster B personality disorder until dementia was 15 years in. It's too late for therapy. It's too late for her to change. There is no hope of her ever being a nice or pleasant person.

Her docs over the decades didn't look at her whole person. They didn't associate all her many various physical ailments to a root cause and they prescribed strong meds that were not going to fix anything. Mom was so wacked out on multiple antidepressants from multiple doctors for her "nerves" that she didn't know my name in the 70s. I know that the whole-person diagnostic model didn't come out for a long time, but mom was expert at manipulating doctors to give her pills for everything and things she didn't even have.

Nobody - doctor or pharmacist - ever looked at her file to see the enormous amounts and quantities of meds mom was on. Now, it's too late. We are all just waiting for her to wear out. The nursing home has gotten her off a lot of meds completely. There are still some that she can't wean off of, that she didn't need in the first place. But, this is as good as it's going to get.

My only regret for her life is that she never got the psych help she so desperately needed her whole life long. It didn't exist, and then when it did, she refused to be seen. *sigh*