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you know my comment stranger than fiction was rude I am sorry, I have lived that life with my dad and brothers and I did not mean it negatively...I just really hoped she got it taken care of and /or found some peace and identified with it To know I am not alone in having to remove someone toxic from your life, just not mom! And maybe felt too comfy n sed something like that, my apologies!!! Take care n Have a good day!!!
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juju~Lisa's mom has been removed from her home. She is now in a nursing home due to her health issues. A social worker handles her care. Lisa and her family have recovered well from the ordeal with her mother living with them. She has a very loving family who supported her. If you go back a few pages to March, you can read her last update. No worries regarding your apology, I sometimes use wording that I feel others may take offense to as well. My mother was similar to Lisa's before Alzheimer's took over, (not as difficult as Lisa's), a personality disorder is not easy to grow up with or deal with as an adult. This is 75% why my mother cannot live with me. It is sad that many of us on this site have had to deal with this type of issue because we all think....this person gave birth to you, is your flesh and blood, sorry I am getting emotional now...I just wish I had a different relationship with my mother from birth to 6 months ago. Hugs to you!!
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It is ok to be emotional, sorry i stirred it up....you all are so strong to do what you do for a mom who does what they do! I resented ma for a long time b4 i understood her anguish, and that it was her poor coping skills, and not something i had done and then got over it, the last part took long time. My dad n bro's were hell to the end but i feel for ya cuz i believe it is a little harder coming from a mom...as I sed if she was the old her, or the boys, this wouldn't be working at all,n I'd be stark raving mad, I have been blessed.
Take care all and stay strong!!
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Anarcisic mother changes who we would become as children and adults we often marry a controling person because we think we need safety and pick someone who also is narcisic but who hide it until after we get married and those of us a certain age were expected to stay married at all costs and of course we did not live together before marriage as couples do now-I am just so blessed to have a kind loving man in my life now who loves me and cares for me greatly-he said he can not change the past but can make sure I am no longer hurt from now on.
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Juju, just to add a bit to what Sharynmarie said. Lisa's mom was moved to a senior housing complex before she went into a nursing home. It took a lot of work, but they got it done.
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Midwest: I do appreciate the guilt that children of a Narcissistic mom's endure and I applaud you for getting your mom out of your home and back to her own in such a short period of time.

I don't think you need therapy because you had to good sense to get her out of your home and the courage to make it happen. You didn't let the "guilt" keep you from making that change.

I'm sorry you miss being loved, but don't forget that you can love yourself. You can be the parent you never had to the child who still lives inside you. You can protect yourself now and shelter yourself from abuse, just like a real parent would do for their child.

My hat is off to you. There are very few people under the cloud of a NM who have had the courage to do what you have done. Sharynmarie had some good reading suggestions for you. The best part is that you have the ability to take that information and utilize it in your life.

Best wishes, Cattails.
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Ilveuman: Sounds like you are on the right track. Take care of your daughter and provide a place for her that she can call home and be safe in. Same for you. When you get settled, you might want to call Adult Protective Services and explain that you mom is not capable of living safely on her own and that it is not possible for you to live with her. Maybe they can check on her and arrange for other living accommodations that will keep her in a safer environment. You don't have to do this now, but maybe in time it will be necessary. Your decision.

Build your life. Get your independence back and enjoy your family. If your mother has a medical issue that requires a hospital stay, have her evaluated regarding her dementia and her ability to live alone.

Good luck. Cattails.
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juju~you didn't stir it up, I can't talk about my mom without getting emotional, I guess because I am very involved in her care. Mom primarily took care of dad. I didn't understand the stress involved in caring for someone with dementia until mom started needing care. No worries juju, Hugs to you!!
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It's time.
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Time for what ilveuman? - to look after you, I hope and put your life first. See that your mum is cared for, but not at the cost of your own life.
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ilveuman please come back and tell us what is up; perhaps we can be of help.
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I haven't read all the posts but I do know Jesus throught the Holy Spirit has all the answers to all relationships. Most of all God wants each of us individually to have a personall relationship with Him. As He came to serve, he calls us also to be like Him. Your serving your mother isn't easy but you make a difference. Remember our battle is not against each other but against demons, principlities, rulers of darkness. See Ephesians 6. Addictions and dependance on anything but God is not of God but of the devil. We must be clothed in the armor God gives us and fight/pray for each other, especally our family. Handle what you can handle and I pray for the help you all need. The Word of God is our weapon when we belong to God. Unfortunately we need a shield up to reflect attacks especially of words that come at us especially from others including our family so we do not get hurt. Same with your mom. Pray the mind of Christ for your mom and look up scriptures on the mind and if your mom would read or repeat them after you, you will see a difference in her. Joyce Meyer's book, "The Secret Power of speaking God's Word," is a great book for references like that or other areas of struggel. Try also going online and watching Jentzen Franklin on TBN's' (Trinity Broadcasting Network) Church channel esp. this week on boundaries. It will help to understand. Much love and blessings wished for you and your family!
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Congrats on your newly found empowerment! You are teaching your daughters a wonderful lesson. It has been a lesson in compassion,caring and love and also setting boundaries and taking care of yourself! Your daughters will know how to take care of themselves and be empowered every day because of what you have shown them.You are a very strong and powerful woman, it takes strength to reach out for the help and solutions you need. Give yourself a big hug for me and for everyone on this forum.
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ceecee, it's very lovely that you have found that religion works for you, but we have all found it best not to discuss religion on this forum other than "God bless you" and "I'll pray for you", and even then we only say that to those we KNOW for certain are of the same mind as we are.

Many hard feelings are created, many fights have been had over religion here. Many times we have all found that God's answer to our prayers are "NO" just as many times are they are "yes". So please do not come in and offer God as a solution to someone that you do not even know; ok? Thank you.

Also, because the original poster was able to move on, find herself help, and has dealt with this situation, it IS important that you read ALL the posts before you make a comment. You really have no idea what you are stepping into at all if you don't. At the very least you might read all of hers.
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yes I agree Pam, it is a touchy subject, religion...I still have issue with it but I have made some posts about being able to find faith and I wonder do I upset anyone....My family/upbringing denounced religion and it took me many many years to take an interest in it...I do not preach it but I did find that following a friends advice and stop questioning accept a higher power and have faith I do know things are better for us since being able to do that almost immediately profound change came to our lives. I believe it is the letting go and having faith in good prevailing is baseline of it, I still debate with my friend about Christ and him dying on the cross etc...as there are so many religions how can just one be it...I don't have the knowledge of them to even make an educated guess...etc. I look at it as letting go of our inner fears and worries and just believing there is good out there and it will come to those who welcome it with a stress and worryfree mind, and there is some sort of higher power who knows what. being able to lean on a theory for support n help or Kharma...etc... we cannot handle what life throws with out some type of belief system yada yada yada....I don't know if this even makes sense or is appropriate to post but I do agree I saw that post you responded to and felt it kinda strong for a neutral safe environment! but also led me to wonder did I offend anyone with my rant about discovering the power of faith! it was only cuz I was amazed at the positivity it brought into our life!
Anyway have a nice night to all!!!
I
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Can any of you tell me how Survived2 and her family are doing. I have followed this thread from the beginning and know she gained so much strength from all of you. My computer crashed in late May and I am finally backup and reading. To my great disappointment there had been no news on Survived2's family. I have so much respect for her and the love she has shown so many. I will continue to pray for her but would love to know if everything is okay.
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Clifford: I can tell you that Lisa, Survived2, is doing very well. She has kept her boundaries with her mom and has not let her mother engulf her in the mental illness that has ruled her (mom's) life.

It's not been easy, but Lisa (Survived2) has a wonderful family, husband, children and in-laws who love her and that love is reciprocated.

You can make a change in your life if you truly want too. This family did make a change and they are thriving as a result.
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Wonderful! So delighted to hear.
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I am a deeply religious person - a post-Vatican II Roman Catholic "convert" to be specific- but the trouble with giving religion as an answer on here if that when you say that trusting God and avoiding sin is the answer to a more specific question, it may imply to someone that if they were living right they would not have the question or the problem underlying it. And honestly, the specific answers to" why is my loved one doing _____ when they weren't like that before" and "how do I get to be their representative payee cause they can't manage the bank account any more" just don't have answers in the Bible, Qu'ran, or Bhagavad Gita. That's not to say there is no spiritual dimension to what we are going through, and sometimes it is important to say that maybe a Biblical principle is being misinterpreted (e.g. false guilt out of not "honoring" Mom or Dad because you simply can't do everything they want you to or what everyone seems to expect you to without self-destructing). Its just all of us when we post need to keep in mind that the easy problems have been solved already and most people asking stuff on here in good faith have love in their hearts, or the things that are going on would not bother them so much. Personally, a reminder to stay in prayer does not bother me, I can always use one. There is a church billboard near me and it says the time with "A Good Time To Pray" and I think it's always right and I don't get tired of seeing it...but again, a lot of people have been praying their hearts out and are on here looking for support, ideas, and info that they don't have already. Whether you are a praying person or not, you probably believe humans are supposed to be providing that for each other, or you would not be on here either! My church refers to that as "ora et labora" - pray and work, more specifically pray as if it all depends on God, work as if it all depends on you :-)

Well, nevertheless, I may just go and look up that special on Boundaries you mentioned, CeeCee, it sounds good!
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Cattails, thank you so much for the update, I am so happy that she is doing okay and that she has kept her boundaries with her mother. She does have so much love to give and her family are truly a gift.

You can make a change, Survived2 has shown everyone what is possible when you want to make that change.
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leave the religion out of this forum please
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Hi Lisa and all you KAW!!! I also started reading this thread, looking for resourses to help in my simular situation w/my FIL, who came to live with us after his wife died 10 years ago, ugh!!!. You are all such an inspiration to me, and i've learned ever so much!! We are nearing the end of our rope, as in the past 6 years, both my husband and I have become disabled ourselves, me with crippling Arthritis, and Hubby (of 30 yrs) w/ severe back problems stemming from two OTJ car accidents. Dealing w/ L&I is no picinic either. My FIL is a selfish, grumpy loveless, unkind, demanding sorry soul, and frankly we are done. We havr 4fantastic kids, two beautiful grandsons, and I come from the very best family ever!!! Two Welsh immigrant parents, 5 amazing brothers and sisters, so I have so much to be thankful for!!! We lost both my parents and hubby John's Mom in the course of 14 mo. ten yrs ago and we got stuck w/ grumpy!!! Lol. Zero help w/ hubby's sister and brother who both coviently ripped of thier parents for many many thousands and we are better for not having them around, no doubt they would be useless to us and would only cause strife w/ the old man, and I would Never want them around my kids a Grandies anyways!!! I just wanted to pop my head in to say WAY TO GO LISA, and that I have so benifited from this thread in so many ways, I feel a part of the group vicariously, and so much pertains to our situation, We will eventually (Soon) have to act to save our lives, sanity, joy, and our marraige before he robs us of those entirely!!! All you gals ( and guys) are incredible, And I get so much from the read, the comic relief is the best!!! Good luck, prayers and Love coming from Staceyb1960, I still have 1200 or so entries to go, and will ALMOST be sad when it comes to and end, and thenrealize it never has to!!! So finally brave enough to put my toe in the water and it feels Fine!!! Lisa and all you gals, keep on keeping on, and pray that God takes care of all of us Caregivers, we need all the help we can get!!!
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I am so glad this is back on the radar. There is a lot of wisdom and support in here!
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Survived2, and others:

When a relative is as dysfunctional as described in the post, taking them in under your roof, "because we might be able to better our relationship"----AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN! They don't somehow suddenly learn how to "improve" their relationships....they don't know how, have been that way all their lives---they lack tools to change that, and learning new tools, is very rare at this stage.

When the relationship was so bad you decided to "Walk Away", in the past, believe me, it will still be that bad, or worse, as someone ages, and/or has greater problems with substance abuse, or other health issues impair the person's judgement and abilities.
Those of us who think they can somehow heal a bad relationship of many years, so often feel desperate to find, somehow, the parent we always yearned for and never had-----BUT, we CANNOT EVER expect, that a life-long dysfunctional person will change and suddenly be able to demonstrate the love or functional parenting that they never could, just because they move in under the same roof.
Kids who grow up in that kind of home, are broken, themselves--if we somehow learn to do some better than our own broken parents did--great! But taking them into our homes, means we put ourselves at great risk of being damaged yet more, and falling down that rabbit hole again---then if we survive, must again, find ways to heal ourselves.
Some don't survive additional exposures to those broken parents--some die of heart attacks, strokes, or other diseases.

This Parent has already made accusations of theft of her drugs, etc.; accusations will get worse, and may, if she can, make your family's life he!! by reporting those accusations to others, including officials.....Which might end up your family being accused of elder abuse, and your Mom being removed to elsewhere---but that could be bad for you.

IF you are desperate enough to get her out of your home, AND are ready to STOP being a dysfunctional martyr yourself:
===Some have considered reporting themselves to APS, because there are laws protecting elders, but NONE protecting caregivers from elder's abusing caregivers. But that's a BAD way to use the system.
===KEEP RECORDS, DAILY, on a calendar or diary, of things she says and does, and your response to those statements and behaviors. Also keep records of her chronic financial messes--bills, letters, papers relating how bad those financial issues got.
===Call 911 to file a report, every time Mom becomes abusive physically, or, to report the elder endangering herself or others in any way--911 calls MUST be on file.
===Report her threats or behaviors that endanger herself or others, to her Doctors--they are supposed to keep that on her files. So does 911. So do Social Workers.
===If her behaviors are stressing you so badly that you are depressed, or feel suicidal, call the suicide prevention 800-number, and talk with someone!
Make sure there is a file kept on that, so they can show the effect your Mom's behaviors and the stress of caregiving are tearing you to bits....and, make sure they understand the bad effects it's had on your kids, and that you feel frustrated due to lack of agencies inability to find ways to get Mom out of your house to protect your kids, and that she's threatened you, and how.
===You can also, if possible, make a statement about Mom's substance abuse and her behaviors, to give to her Primary Care Doc, to put in her file
----I had to do that for my Mom, and it made her Doc stop and read it, before prescribing more Narcs to Mom when she asked for them "just in case I need them"----it prevented the Doc from over-prescribing narcs, which is very important, because it can help reduce bad behaviors, for one thing---or, because your Mom has been addicted so long, it could end up a good reason to get her admitted to a facility, to get her OUT of your house, before more damage to your family relationships happens than already has.
Keeping good records, and making official reports on various agencies files, becomes a "preponderance of evidence" that you can use to both protect yourself from her behaviors, and, to get her placed in a facility, or at least in her own apartment...but AWAY from your house.
Keeping good records is the only recourse caregivers currently have, to my knowledge, to protect themselves....it is you, being empowering and proactive for you and your own family.
===Mom told you that it will take a judge to get her out of your house---well, it might---but if you've kept records everywhere--Doctor, Social Worker, your Doctor, 922 system, etc., you have tools to help a judge, in your favor, get Mom taken out of your home.
YOU can ask a judge to get your Mom declared incompetent [based on her financial messes][you are keeping records of her financial messes, right?], and have her perhaps committed for 72 hour observation based on her threats to do harm to herself or others, and her drug problems, for instance.
Once she's admitted to ANY facility, you tell them she cannot return to your home--ever....that Social Workers must find other habitation for her, because your health and that of your kids, has been threatened by her, and you, as a parent, are doing due-dillegence, to prevent her harming you and your kids.

IF your Mom can't live by herself, she might qualify for Assisted Living.
They would definitely monitor and control how much drugs she gets.
Mom might do anything possible to avoid that, because she knows they will limit her access to those.
Bottom line:
PROTECT YOURSELF by keeping good records and filing appropriate reports with agencies about her behaviors.
STOP allowing her to use your money, no matter how bad she make you feel about that..
STOP allowing her to guilt-you into "bailing her out"
----if she stacks up credit card debt----it's HER debt---as long as only her name is on it.
You are NOT required to bail her out of that---once she is in over her head, and can't pay those cards, her credit score goes bad, but the card companies will not be able to do much to get paid back---about all they can do, is report bad credit on her files, which, ends up stopping her getting more credit cards, after awhile.
====Make sure she is NOT taking out credit cards in your name, or any of your family's name--that is fraud--and it's reportable--best by you.
===KEEP YOUR personal papers hidden where she cannot get at them!
===STOP allowing her to keep verbally and emotionally abusing you!
You can walk away from the immediate area [sometimes]; you can tell her "I wish you well", you can tell her, " I love you"---and while you tell her neutral or loving statements, make sure you hear them in your own mind and heart, as you, telling yourself, that you wish yourself well, and you love yourself----because that Mother couldn't tell you those things, and should have.

BUT, it's totally Unrealistic, no matter how badly you want it or need it, to think a Mom who could never be the Mom you needed, to suddenly become a good one, or anything close to it----at this age, it's more likely to get far worse.
It's really important you learn to advocate for yourself; to learn to 'parent' yourself effectively and lovingly, to give yourself the love and nurturing you didn't get from parent[s].

As adults, this is what we must learn to do, as a good way to cope better.
It's good that you learned to survive hard things in your life;
It's better, to learn to Thrive, despite those hard things.
Learn to be a bit "selfish": the kind where you learn to take care of your basic needs, and then some, in order to better be able to live a better life for your kids, for your own family....that kind of "selfishness" is GOOD, because it is about you learning to thrive, instead of merely surviving.
Learn to "put your own oxygen mask on first", in a crisis--otherwise, you will suffer as badly or worse, than any you try to help.
She thinks she's got you where she wants you; you meanwhile, are learning how to play her games better than she can, and use them in your own favor.
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Dear Survived2,

I'm so sorry. Are there social worker's in your area? Can you find an assisted living community that you can afford? Can her doctor prescribe medicine to help her outrageous behavior? When my mother was living with my family and attacking all of us with her threats, she even slapped my daughter in the face, her family doctor prescribed her behavioral medication that calmed her down and she is still on it over a year and a half later. She's much happier and thus we are too! I found her an assisted living community that was close to our home and had some "affordable income level" units. Most of them do have them available, you may have to be on a wait list to get one.

Also, is she better with other people? I found a local college student to provide us a break for a few hours at a time. We paid her an hourly fee. Her grandma lived with her and she help take care of her until she passed. My mother really loved spending time with her. And, it gave us a well needed sanity break.

I wish you and your family the best. You have to take action to protect your family, your marriage and your own sanity.

Take-care of yourself...
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Hi everyone. Lisa here. Before I delete my thread I just want to thank every single one of you that helped with my journey. Mom died December 14, 2014 from lung cancer. She was mean and bitter till the end. My goal leading up to her death was the morning after I would be able to look at myself in the mirror and know I did what was nessasary to keep her comfortable. To give a as peaceful passing as possible. I did that. Please anyone here who lived their life with the abuse I did needs to read this from beginning to end. I had the best support and help on this thread and you can apply the amazing advice here to your own situation. I love each and everyone of you. God bless!!!
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Best of luck to you...you deserve every minute of it!
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((((Survived2)))) Love you, girl. I hope you have a wonderful life.
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Lisa -wish you would leave your thread. There is so much in it that others can learn from. Love you too Big ((((((((((hugs))))))))))))
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Lisa, yours was the very first thread that got me hooked on this site, and I learned so much from you and all of your KA gang! Lol! I am happy to hear that you are free at last and can hold your head up high knowing that you made sure that she was well cared for til the bitter end! Good for you! Now go on to enjoy your family, I know that your husband was such a stand up and supportive guy and it would be great if you gave us a heads up on his parents ascwell, as we were very invested in them as well! Your thread was instrumental in my finding my way through this awesome website, finding these incredible and helpful caregivers and their support helps me through some very tough emotions at times. I'm so glad you stopped back in to touch base, and please don't dismantle your thread yet, as I do want to breeze back through it for inspiration! You Rock Girl!!!
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